Honda Fit

Karen_SKaren_S Member Posts: 5,092
Please share your Honda Fit purchase experience here.


  • marcbmarcb Member Posts: 152
    Been wondering if I'm nuts thinking the Honda Fit/Jazz looked great, so this topic is to see if there are others who would find it attractive.

    Maybe if there are enough positive feedback, we can convince Honda to bring it to North America. Heres some Pics for starters. Comments anyone?
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHMember Posts: 22,666
    there's no market for superminis in North America.
    That's why we don't see the Fit, Jazz, A-class,
    Lupo or Polo here. Nice cars all, it's too bad.

    P.S.- notice how much larger the new Mini is compared to the original (which didn't sell well in NA.

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • marcbmarcb Member Posts: 152
    But recently there has been a small movement again towards well, the small. And i hope (or is it a wishful thinking?) this new niche has now been recognized by the automakers here in NA.

    Look at the echo, it has built a very loyal following. Some of its owners even calling it cute and (imho) the Fit/Jazz is much better in that factor. Plus the reception of tall sw like the Focus and now the Matrix and Suzuki Aero does show there is a market in that area.

    If the Fit/Jazz beat the Echo/Yaris in Japan and Europe, and if it has more space than the Focus sw then I can't see why it can't be a leader/trendsetter here in North America. Oh, and probably add the VW sw's in that too.

    Honda may have a small window to bring it in quick and make a splash regardless because I think the Fit/Jazz would probably sell on its own merits alone for NOW. A few years later, the Focuses and the Echo's will have incorporated the advances it has made, and maybe even some bigger vehicles (vans, suv's) will start doing the same.
  • bsme1991bsme1991 Member Posts: 23
    Unfortunately Japan can't keep up with demand for this car, good luck if USA gets any at reasonable prices.

    Honda should stay with the game plan to produce as many Odyssey, Pilot, MDX, and the CR-V the market will bare. There's a huge profit margins gained by producing these family haulers, It's great for the HMC stockholders too. Heck why not a Honda full size 4WD truck to compete with Ford F-150/250/350?

    If HMC think Fit/Jazz will sell in N.A. why don't they build a factory here just for Fit/Jazz platform?

    BTW 4 door HB Fit/Jazz looks like the Suzuki Aerio SX (2 liter DOHC 141hp, MSRP under $15k).
  • marcbmarcb Member Posts: 152
    I've limited the dimensions to the 4 below as I could not find any Jazz interior dimensions in the internet. It is interesting to note that although Jazz is at least 1.5 feet shorter than the others, it's wheelbase is average.

    In fact (and I don't know how accurate the Jazz website is) it is amazing how at 2.25 feet shorter it has more space than the Focus sw. Probably having the wheels planted at the corners, a compact rear suspension and mid placed gas tank helped a lot.
    (inches) Jazz Echo Aero Focus sw
    Length 150.8168.2166.5178.2
    Width 65.9 65.4 67.7 66.9
    Height 60.0 59.4 61.0 53.9
    Wheelbase 96.5 93.3 97.6103.0
  • artdechoartdecho Member Posts: 337
    I also extolled the virtues of the Fit/Jazz in another thread on Edmund's. I think it would be a great addition to Honda's lineup here. It's really not that small, with virtually the same interior room as the Focus. As you pointed out, the Echo is selling repectably here, despite its less than flattering looks. As Honda has abandoned the entry-level Civic hatchback here (only pushing the $25 grand SiR), the Jazz could easily take the place of the Civic hatchback. At a price similar (or better) than an Echo, and 50 mpg-combined fuel economy, it makes far more economic sense than a Civic hybrid. Plus, the interior is so versatile, you can fit mountain bikes etc inside with ease. It really is an intelligent small car design, and has great saftey stats as well. The A-class is coming (D-C is even thinking about bringing the even smaller "Swatch" car) and so is the Ford Fiesta-based "Fusion", which is a size down from the Focus. I know Honda is having trouble meeting the demand for this exceptional car, but they'd better up their capacity and get this car to North America before others beat them to the punch.
  • artdechoartdecho Member Posts: 337
    Don't forget the Echo has a trunk welded on the back.....probably better to compare the Jazz to the Yaris 5 door hatchback.....also the Focus ZX-5 would be a better comparison than the wagon.
  • marcbmarcb Member Posts: 152
    hmmm. Your probably right artdecho, THAT must be what the website is comparing the Jazz with. Not the sw, so that would be my bad... I will then have to check the dimensions also of the ZX-5 vs Jazz.
  • artdechoartdecho Member Posts: 337
    Hey, marcb........maybe we should contact Honda and see if they'd lend us a Jazz to drive around with and get some public reaction. I guarantee you, the car would gain attention all on its own (as happened with recent trials of both the A-Class and Smart cars in Canada). Put a sticker on it saying 65mpg (highway) or over 50mpg combined, plus a sticker saying under $15,000 Cdn. and i you'd be mobbed with people wondering where they could get one.......especially when they see the space/versatility of the interior.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    Looks like a nice little vehicle. Wish they would bring it over.
  • marcbmarcb Member Posts: 152
    i bet it's gonna be fun, specially if we have to drive with a right handed version. But I doubt we'd make that much splash without a large advertisement.

    living in Ottawa i do get to see some of superminis which I would guess are the Transport Canadas fuel efficiency test units. A purple A-class, a silver Audi 2, a Smart, plus a grey Insight and a green Prius that looks like privately owned. They do turn heads, but for only those who could recognize them.
  • marcbmarcb Member Posts: 152
    true, back in the hybrid topic where this began a couple of the guys there also thought so. so really, honda should know they have a market here.
  • marcbmarcb Member Posts: 152
    i tried several times to post a corrected dimensions comparison table containing the Yaris and the ZX-5 but this website refuses because of a certain char limit. finally tried a mangled msg but deleted it asap so i apologize to anyone who saw that msg.

    anyway, heres a simple interior seat flip-flop animation for anyone interested.

  • fit_nessfit_ness Member Posts: 58
    How am I missing the official Honda announcement of available colours?
  • vspiarsvspiars Member Posts: 1
    I just arrived back from Japan a couple of weeks ago. I was fortunate enough to be able to go to a dealership and see the Stream and Fit. The Fit (I sat in) is like a 5-door Civic. The rear seats are really interesting. They have 2 storage positions. One is where the seat bottom collapses up and is perpendicular to the floor giving a semi- narrow but deep storage hole. The second is where the seats collaps in to the floor making a flat bed from the rear of the car to the back of the front seats. You don't even remove the head-rests. You slide the front seats forward and the rear rests go beneath the front seats. You then return the front seats to their previous position. Very cool. When they come with bigger engines (currently 1300cc and 1500cc next year) they will be great for the US market. The Stream is a smaller version of the US Odessey. Same general configuration and layout. They just need manual trannys and all would be right with the world. Honda has missed the rush to wagons. I think they are still smarting from the financial beating they took with the Accord wagons. I love mine but it is 10yrs. old. A hybrid Fit would be the perfect Fit.
  • artdechoartdecho Member Posts: 337
    The Fit itself gets such good mileage (around 50mpg combined/65 mpg hwy (that's Imperial Gallons, btw......translates to about 40/52 US)and that's attainable mileage, not the "ideal conditions" mileage figures of most hybrids) and has such low emissions that I don't think a hybrid Fit would make sense, at least from an economic perspective. Even with the hybrid Civic, you could never save enough gas to make up for the price premium over the regular Civic. However, I do agree that Honda has missed the boat on wagons/hatchbacks/mini-minivans and should get some kind of Fit iver here pronto.
    (Civic 5 door and Stream would also be welcome, as well as an Accord wagon)
  • civicwcivicw Member Posts: 135
    I'm speculating that Honda will bring the Fit here in Fall 2003, to compete with Toyota's Scion vehicles. Look for Honda to announce this either at the Detroit or NY show next year. I remember reading a news story this year that quoted a Honda VP saying that the Fit was a possibility for North America.

    Early next year, Toyota will introduce the redesigned Vitz/Yaris, which is right now taking a beating in the Japanese market from the Fit. The Vitz, along with the Nissan March, will reduce demand for the Fit, thereby freeing up Fit capacity to meet North American needs.
  • bsme1991bsme1991 Member Posts: 23
    The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) has a 40 mph frontal offset test. Based on the picture and the driver score, Honda Fit is unfit for survival in tailgating SUV country as USA.

    compare it to 2002 CR-V score:
  • civicwcivicw Member Posts: 135
    Even though the larger CR-V does better in the above tests, the Fit still meets European safety standards, which I understand are the same as defined by IIHS.

    Either Honda has to get the Civic 5-door, or the Fit here next year. I think they will modify the Fit in some way to meet IIHS requirements, but I agree that some people with SUV fear may not buy it.
  • perry40perry40 Member Posts: 94
    I love the Honda Jazz/Fit models ... as do I the Ford Fusion, Toyota Yaris, Hyundai Lavita and all of those types of cars which unfortunately not marketed here in North America ... the SUV/Mini van (which aren't so "mini") of the 90's, pretty much up-sized all auto models marketed here in North Am. Hell, I recall back in the 80's, smaller cars were more the norm ... I myself owned an 85 Honda CRX ... one of the smallest on the road then and a fabulous car! What we need is more smaller, fuel efficient cars (similar to Europe and Asia) and less of these wasteful SUV's on the roads of North Am. In Canada, gas ain't cheap and it won't remain cheap in the U.S. forever either ... besides some of these sub-compacts are darned cute!
  • AamirQAamirQ Member Posts: 7
    I love the idea behind the Jazz/Fit, but I think it's a bit too small for the U.S. market. Back in 1988, a friend of mine bought a used 1985 Civic Wagon. To this day, that car has to be one of the most intelligent and space-efficient designs I've ever witnessed. It seated four six-footers with room to spare, and it could haul lots of stuff if one or both seats were folded down.

    If Honda can import the current Civic Si 3-door from England, I don't see why they can't import the 5-door Civic hatchback as well. Sure, it might not look that great, but I think it will appeal to those who would consider a Pontiac Vibe or Toyota Matrix, but are put off by the cheesy "boy racer" design bits and want a more mature-looking vehicle.

    In any case, if the Jazz/Fit doesn't make it to the U.S. in its current iteration, I wouldn't be surprised if a similar (i.e. one with the Magic Seat), but larger, Honda was introduced a couple of years down the road. Then again, that Honda Element is just around the corner... can't wait!!
  • odmanodman Member Posts: 309
    My choice would be the Honda Stream, a Civic-based MPV that is a bit smaller than the first-generation Honda Odyssey. I would buy one in a heartbeat.

  • AamirQAamirQ Member Posts: 7
    These are just my opinions and thoughts...

    1. I'm not crazy about the Stream's styling, particularly the C-shaped glass on the sides of the cargo area. It makes the rear cargo box look rather tail-heavy, as if the whole vehicle may tip back on its rear wheels.

    2. To me, the concept doesn't seem all that different from the first-generation Honda Odyssey, although it is a bit smaller. I'm not a fan of seven-passenger vehicles with traditional swing-out rear doors; I prefer dual sliding doors. Having said that, I've never had the (dis)pleasure of climbing into the third seat of an Odyssey or an SUV, but I'd imagine it wouldn't be much different than climbing into the back seat of a 2-door coupe - something I personally dislike having to do. (Maybe it's because I'm 6' tall and weigh 230 lbs. I'm sure kids wouldn't mind as much...)

    At this time, I'm more keen on five-passenger multipurpose vehicles, such as the VW Sharan (not sold in the US). It's too bad that vehicles like the early 1990's Nissan Axxess weren't more successful; although the Axxess had a clumpy ride, it was a pretty sound vehicle, conceptually speaking. I'd rather get a short wheelbase minivan, such as a Mazda MPV 3.0 V6, if I needed seven-passenger seating capability.
  • odmanodman Member Posts: 309
    I don't mind the styling, it looks different than all the other boxes out there, and looks quite fun.

    As for the seating capacity, I think most people who buy these cars don't actually use the jump seats in the back. They really are 5-seaters with the option of carrying an extra two in a last-minute pinch. I've got a 1st Gen Odyssey, and that's the way we use it. It's not practical for big families, but for us with two kids, its perfect, and the Stream would be too. I'm 6'5", and have ridden in the back row, and it is survivable, but not a lot of fun.

    The Nissan Axxess was a great concept, but its execution was a bit flawed (skittish handling, especially in wet weather). It was sold in the US in 1990-91, but went on in Canada till '95. There's still lots on the road here. It had an optional AWD system, and in the early years could be had in 7-passenger configuration (those last two seats would have been inhumane!).

    I have never understood why VW sells the Eurovan but not the Sharan in North America. The Sharan is much nicer to drive. The Opel Zafira would be good too, and I could see it being sold as a Saturn.

    Now that it has a 3.0, the MPV is a decent small van. I wish Honda would bring over the Stream though, at least for Canada where gas is more expensive. Are you listening Honda???
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    I also like the stream and have a first gen Odyssey. I like the swing out doors much better than sliders (my 2 year old can open the door get in and then close the door safely - not the case with a slider), and the rear seat is actually much easier to get into than other minivans because the middle seat tumbles forward. I also don't have to use the rear seat as often because the middle seat holds 3 people.

    The Sharan seats 7 not 5.
  • mrnimmomrnimmo Member Posts: 271
    I'm not sure a Fit fits my lifestyle. I'm a big man and have three kids. Just don't see all five of us stuffing in there, or that being a capable work vehicle. This is a little smaller than a Geo Metro, right? I'm not sure I'd want to go any smaller than a 5 door Civic.

    Stream seems very nice. I'm drooling over that 1.7 engine great mpg, and seating for 7. MPG 27/43 Imperial = 22/34 MPG US Gallons!!!!!! Wow!!!
  • artdechoartdecho Member Posts: 337
    I think the Fit/Jazz is a great entry-level car, a great commuter, a great car for seniors (ease of entry) and students alike, singles (easy to put a mountain bike or 2 in the back) and small families. While smaller on the outside, it has almost the same interior room as a Focus, so it really is spacious for it's size. With highway mileage figures around 65 mpg., it approaches the gas mileage of hybrids at about half their cost.
    What's not to like!?
    As good as the Odyssey is, it's too big and burns too much gas for my needs. The Stream would be perfect, as the need to carry 7 would be only very occasional. The UK version has a sport-shift 5 speed automatic. Can't see any info on it being renamed the Latitude and coming here in 2003 or 4
    (see posts in the SUV forum under Honda Element/Model X) but hope that comes true. A mild re-styling (especially the rear end) with a little more "attitude" would be welcome, with the 5 speed sport-shift and either the CR-V's or new Accords 4 banger........real-time 4WD would be nice too.
  • odmanodman Member Posts: 309
    I agree about the Stream -- I think that it would be a perfect car for my needs too, and if it was announced in the next year, I'd wait to buy one. I like the styling and the efficiency of the package. Can't miss, especially here in Cda.

    I also think the Fit/Jazz would be a fun car as well. I like it better than the Civic SiR hatch that is coming.
  • marcbmarcb Member Posts: 152
  • marcbmarcb Member Posts: 152
    As long as they can keep it as fuel efficient when it comes here. But somehow i get the feeling they're gonna up the hp when it crosses the pond, which would be awright as long as it doesn't turn into another gas guzzling minivan. Now if Honda up's the hp by adding the Civic's Hybrid Electric Engine I'd be grinning ear to ear. That probably wouldn't be too hard as the Latitude is based on the Civic platform too.

    Oh yeah Honda, very important: Don't forget to add a 110 volt outlet so I can tap on the hybrids stored power while camping or away from home.

    (Picture this: If people could brew in heavy traffic to work, wouldn't traffic rage cut in half? Of course accidents could double but at least we die happy... and the thought of watching attractive women dry their hair in bathrobes is worth the risk).
  • odmanodman Member Posts: 309
    This news just made my day, when can I order? I wonder what it will cost? Stream commands 2-4,000 euro premium over top end Civics in Germany. Could it go for CAN$21-$24K? I wonder what they are projecting in terms of volume.
  • revkarevka Member Posts: 1,750
    Looks like we need a new discussion on this board, so I went ahead and took the initiative. Let's continue our discussion on the Honda Latitude here. Use your copy/paste so you don't have to re-write your message/s. Thanks for your participation. ;-)

    Hatchbacks & Wagons Boards
  • raychuang00raychuang00 Member Posts: 541

    Do NOT be surprised if Honda does unveil a US version of the Honda Jazz at the next Detroit International Auto Show in January 2003.

    There's good reason for this: Honda will NOT stand idly by while Ford ships the Ford Fusion, which has been confirmed for the US market; the Fusion is based upon the latest Ford Fiesta platform.

    What I envision is a US market model with the following changes:

    1. Somwhat longer nose and slightly larger front and rear bumpers for better crash protection.

    2. A more powerful engine, possibly a 1.5-liter i-VTEC unit rated at around 105 bhp, as opposed to the 83 bhp 1.3 liter engine found on the models sold in Japan and Europe. This is similar to what Toyota did for the Echo, essentially a US-market version of the Yaris model sold in Japan.

    3. Air conditioning will be offered as an option.

    4. There will be two transmission choices, either a five-speed manual or a CVT automatic.

    It won't have the very high fuel mileage of the Japanese or European market Jazz but very likely the fuel mileage will be better than the Honda Civic HX five-speed coupe.

    Would Americans buy such a car? I think given the renewed interest in economy cars it could do well, especially if Honda can put the CVT automatic in the Jazz.
  • marcbmarcb Member Posts: 152
    After going gaga over the Stream/Latitude I just realized it was butt ugly and was not as fuel efficient as the Jazz. Man, they'd have to do some serious rework on that one to make it look better. Is it still in my list? Sure, for a 7 seater it would be the most efficient, fun to drive one. But it will be a major battle to get over the looks. I agree with the rest the front just doesn't stick together quite well either. And the rear quarter window ovals have been critized in the Ford Taurus SW years ago, so what gives?

    I just can't get over how cute the Jazz is over the Latitude so I went back to the Jazz site to look over some of its 360* views.

    Going thru the 360's made me realized how cute this thing looked in all angles, so good IMHO it should be able to compete with the MINI. It is not difficult to imagine tricked out Jazz's (yeah that should be the name here) zooming around should Honda provide an S version for the boy racer crowd. Forget about the Matrix or Scion, Honda can dominate that niche with only one model. Of course I'd go for the more fuel efficient models, but I can see the potential for the teeners.

    I would just hate how that'd affect insurance rates for the Jazz.

  • odmanodman Member Posts: 309
    I hope the Jazz comes over hear, it certainly looks like a sharp little car -- nicer lines in my eyes than the Civic SIR hatch. Big question will be whether Honda thinks they will get enough volume to make it worth certifying for crash/emissions/fuel economy. Remember, they initially ditched the Civic hatch because the entry market had pretty much disappeared into Korean cars (Hyunda Accent/Daewoo Lanos) and into used cars. I don't see that the market will be much better, but here's hoping.

    Hey, Marcb, you mentioned over on the Latitude board that you had an Axxess once -- how was it? I'm considering a '94/'95 as an interim car till I can save enough pennies for a newer car. Any significant problems? I test drove one (in the rain) and it was very skitterish. It may have been the car/tires, but Consumer Reports once said it had dicey handling. Any real world concerns?
  • marcbmarcb Member Posts: 152
    odman, i loved that van (sw?cuv?). It had innovation in spades. Mine was average in reliability until the 10th year when part's started dying in rapid succession.

    Prior to that the things I had to keep changing was the front CV boots (a lot!), tires (above normal). Had to change also the mufflers, struts, stabilizer bushings. Oh, i broke the spider gear once trying to induce a spin on an icy parking lot. That thingy felt zippy yet was very frugal with the tall OD gear. I'd get around 15km per litre hwy 10km city up til the goary end (around 37/25mpg).

    True! my complaint is the dicey handling (wind steer, torque steer, lean on turns) and a lot of wind/engine noise. The body itself felt rather flimsy: drive a wheel over a low curb and it twists willingly.

    The lite slide doors didn't give a secure feeling either (never crash tested, doubt it had cross bars). But most of this failings is prolly the way they designed cars in the late 80's (Remember they started selling it 1989).

    For me, the pros outweighted the cons for that era.

    Tall cabin w/ significant cab forward design (note the front quarter windows)
    Double sliding doors (a 1st)
    Sliding door roll down windows (a 1st)
    Large tilt glass sunroof
    Independent suspensions (a 1st in a van, sort of mixed blessing)
    2nd row seat that tumbles forward level with rear cargo
    Very good fuel economy and manueverability, specially for the interior volume it offered
    Available AWD
    Available 3rd row of seats (rather useless but a germ of an idea).
    Loved the false rear cargo bottom for the spare tire! Stashed a lot in there too: snow shovel, blanket, sand, air pump, pressurized tire sealant, jump cables, front bulbs, oil and extra windshield washer and blades. I don't carry that much now even with a van.

    If you still go with it odman, test drive at 70+mph. Mine developed the shakes so bad passengers could see my hand move (warning! it shook less on wet road). Fix was a stabilizer bushing replacement. The independent suspension seem to cause the skittishness. Some CRV owners I know had the same problem with above normal tire wear as the Axxess. Also check to see if the exhaust manifold is cracked.
  • odmanodman Member Posts: 309
    Thanks very much for the thorough review! I see lots of them in the Toronto area, and some are still in great shape. I agree that the '89-vintage standards are something to watch out for. It was a very innovative van for its time.
  • raychuang00raychuang00 Member Posts: 541

    I think Honda could bring over the Jazz to the North American market with only the changes I suggested. After all, the Jazz has to crash-tested and certififed on the European New Car Assessment Program (NCAP), which includes an offset barrier crash just as severe as the one done by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS).

    Given the relatively high price of gasoline nowadays and the increasing revolt against large minivans and SUV's lately, the Jazz maybe just the vehicle a lot of people want.
  • odmanodman Member Posts: 309
    Here's a link to an article on new Honda plans. In it, Tom Elliot says "There's also room below the Civic for a smaller car at some point, but that's not our highest priority."

    I guess we shouldn't expect to see the Jazz/Fit on the streets here anytime soon. Too bad, it would have been a great youth market car.

  • backybacky Twin CitiesMember Posts: 18,946
    Car and Driver reported in their January issue that Honda is bringing the Jazz/Fit to the U.S., but probably not next year. They mentioned Honda was doing this to appeal to a younger market, one that would be attracted by a car priced lower than the Civic. Shoot, Honda probably thinks I'm an old geezer, but I would be attracted to the Jazz/Fit based on what I've read here and by the pictures I've seen (C/D has a picture also). It would be perfect for around-town commuting, as long as the back seat room is decent (for 2 adults or 3 kids).
  • raychuang00raychuang00 Member Posts: 541

    I believe the reason why the Jazz will likely arrive in the US market in the next 18 months is the fact that Toyota has done well with the Echo model (which is based on the Yaris hatchback sold in Japan and Europe), the fact that Nissan plans to bring over the Micra model to the US market as a 2004 model and the fact the Jazz does well in the European NCAP crash tests.

    The North American version will likely sport the 1.4-liter L4 DSi engine rated at 100 bhp with A/C standard and your choice of five-speed manual or CVT automatic transmissions. Given the big backlash against SUV's and minivans lately and the fact that small station wagons and hatchbacks are back in vogue I think Honda will sell quite a lot of Jazz cars in the USA.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesMember Posts: 18,946
    >>> ... Toyota has done well with the Echo model ... <<<

    I don't know that Toyota has done all that well with the ECHO model, given its relatively low sales and rumors that it will be axed after the 2004 model year. Maybe Toyota would have sold more had they brought over the hatch version (i.e. Yaris), which has more utility and IMO looks a lot better. In addition to the reasons you mentioned, I think the Fit/Jazz is a response to Toyota's new Scion division and to Hyundai/Kia.
  • odmanodman Member Posts: 309
    Australia gets the Jazz: ms/news/newsarticle.html

    Canada gets the Yaris (=Echo hatchback). p;language=english&feature=Echohatchback

    Maybe Honda Canada will see the arrival of the Echo hatch (as well as a bunch of Daewoo junk soon to hit Chevy and Pontiac dealers) as reason to bring the Jazz/Fit to us.
  • revkarevka Member Posts: 1,750
    Interesting news about the Echo, btw.

    Also, if anyone wants to start up an new Toyota Echo Hatch discussion in Hatchbacks, feel free to do so. Look for the "Add Discussion" button on the upper/right side the Hatchback's board.

    Happy motoring!

    Hatchbacks & Wagons Host
  • artdechoartdecho Member Posts: 337
    If the Detroit auto show's motto was "nothing succeeds like excess", what with block-long V16 Caddy's etc. etc., the Toronto (and Chicago) shows were a bit of a pleasant surprise, with the anouncements of Echo hatches, and competing mini
    cars from Suzuki and Chevy, none-the-less. The Mazda Sport Crossover?(Mazda2 in disguise) also looked interesting. With the Smart cars on the horizon for North America and hopefully a Jazz too (are you listening, Honda?), maybe there's hope for us yet.
  • odmanodman Member Posts: 309
    Over at the Latitude discussion drv928 mentioned that Honda reversed an earlier decision not to bring the Civic hatch SiR and that they are missing the boat in the crossover segment. He thought that the Civic 5-door hatch might come over here as the youth solution and the Latitude as the family solution to these needs.

    I personally would rather see the Jazz than the Civic 5 door, but with Toyota bringing a deriviative of the Echo sedan over, Honda might go for the bigger size of the Civic HB. What do you think?
  • glycinemaxglycinemax Member Posts: 74
    5-dr civic with the CTDi diesel has been at the top of my wish list for some time. The Jazz might suffice as a commuter doubling as a family back-up vehicle. Jazz rumors are US debut sometime in 2004. No rumors but several requests for US Civic 5-dr. Civic 5-dr with CTDi would allow for some of cross-over market and establish a diesel presence for the market that should pick-up after the ULSD intro in mid 2006. HOA seems to think CR-V can handle 5-dr Civic/Civic wagon, Accord Wagon demand. If diesel (Europe 2004?) or hybrid (US 2005?) CR-V option was available then I might spend the extra money but a 5-dr Civic CTDi should be more affordable. Jazz might work. Need to go do the conversions and see how small it really is. Current market options for me are VW Golf TDi 4-dr, Toyota Matrix, a Subaru, and waiting for future Hondas. The Latitude (if it looked more like the Toyota Wish) would fit in between the Civic 5-dr and the CR-V. The Jazz should be more affordable than a 5-dr Civic and its styling would compete against the Scion and maybe to some extent the Matrix. Honda does need to offer a Jazz and/or 5-dr Civic in the US & Canada.
  • odmanodman Member Posts: 309
    I think the Jazz would favour the youth market.

    The Civic 5-door looks good and is versatile, but a Jazz would be more affordable. In Germany it starts at 12,500 euros, compared to 14,500 euros for the Civic (the euro is close in value to the US$). The Jazz would be more competitive against Korean small cars, and I think youth buyers would find it more attractive than the Scion Xa.
  • artdechoartdecho Member Posts: 337
    Civic 5 door is similar in size to Matrix/Vibe, P5 and 5 door Golfs/Focuses. Jazz would be a great competitor to the Echo Hatch Toyota Canada is bringing us. IMHO, the Jazz is not only more attractive than the Echo Hatch, but it has a more versatile interior as well. If Honda wants a piece of the entry-level market (Kia Rio, Hyundai Accent) that Toyota seems to want, they'd better get the Jazz here pronto. (Mazda's also testing the waters with a concept based on their Mazda2).
  • raychuang00raychuang00 Member Posts: 541
    I personally think that Honda is very seriously looking at selling a model below the Civic, mostly because they don't want to lose customers to the variants of the Toyota Echo and the new low-cost cars from Korea.

    We may see the Jazz shown as a US model for the first time probably at the next Detroit International Auto Show in January 2004 to be sold as a four-door hatchback (hatchbacks are making a big comeback lately). The car will use a 1.5-liter I-4 i-DSI engine rated at 95-100 bhp (up from the 1.4-liter version sold in Europe rated at 83 bhp), with your choice of five-speed manual or CVT with "manualmatic" mode with seven forward "ratios."
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