Honda Fit

odman

Where would the Fit for North America be built?
Japan? Thailand? Brazil? All are options. With the depreciating U.S. currency, sourcing entry-level cars from a country that is moving with the U.S. dollar makes sense. Otherwise the small profits risk being wiped out by currency swings.

raychuang00

"In Europe, the diesel contains much less sulphur (95% less I believe), which allows for filters to be placed on the emissions that take out much of the particles. Of course, I don't think diesels will ever shed their image of being dirty, and noisy, so in the eyes of the American consumer having Honda introduce a diesel might be a bad idea."

In fact, the US plans to start phasing in low-sulfur motor fuels starting in 2005, with the complete changeover done by the September 2006. Once the whole USA switches to low-sulfur motor fuels, I think Honda will put their excellent i-CTDi turbodiesel engine into the US-market Accord and whatever replaces the CR-V--most likely a variant of the FR-V now selling in Europe.

But getting back on topic, there was an article on FOXNews.com in regards to the increasing popularity of small cars again here in the USA. In that article, Honda did admit that they will sell a new smaller-than-Civic car probably at the beginning of 2006 as a 2007 model. That could only mean one thing: they plan to sell the second-generation Honda Fit in the US market, very likely in both five-door hatchback and four-door sedan models.

You can read the article here:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,139801,00.html

hungarian83

I heard about the low-sulphur diesel. That’s great news. If Honda introduces the i-CTDi to the US, word could get around that diesels can be cleaner, but it will take some time to rid people of the current stereotype. Since Honda is such a revolutionary company in engine design, they might be just the company to prove that diesels can be quiet and clean when properly engineered. I guess it is just a matter of time. I remember years ago, many people were convinced that hybrids would need to be plugged in.

Thanks for the link! However, I disagree with the people at the end of the article. It’s true based on physics that a larger car is safer in an accident, but the most important part is the vehicle design. Small cars these days are not the tin cans on wheels of 15 years ago. They have come very far in making them safe.

Honda has done a 50% frontal offset crash test at 50 km/h on both the Life and the Fit against the previous generation Legend (US: 3.5RL). I saw many pictures of the Life crash test, but only recently did I find any on the Fit.
I apologize that the page is not in English, but it’s the only source I could find:
http://www.honda.hu/galeria.php?act=biztonsag&ect=auto
All things considered, the Fit performs well against the massive Legend. By clicking on "Letöltés" you can download a larger, high-quality version of each image. (about 350K each)

raychuang00

"If Honda introduces the i-CTDi to the US, word could get around that diesels can be cleaner, but it will take some time to rid people of the current stereotype."

Fortunately, buyers in 45 US states right now can buy the Mercedes-Benz E320 CDI, which is in many ways more powerful than the petro-fuelled E320 saloon. Unlike the old M-B diesels, the E320 CDI is very quiet, very rarely makes the clattering noise common to diesel engines, and more importantly gets the type of fuel efficiency you normally associate with much smaller vehicles. :-) I expect the Honda i-CTDi engine to be pretty much the same; imagine a Honda Accord saloon getting 33 miles per US gallon in city driving, 46 miles per US gallon in highway driving!

fdanna

I don't care how much more advanced the engines are ... the exhaust still STINKS! I've been behind modern diesel engines running low sulphur fuel in europe and the emissions are still smelly and choking.

Maybe particulate filters will help this.

hungarian83

Typically the problem with most diesel is the smoke and particles that come out of the exhaust.
I don't drive a diesel, and I don't know much about the technical details, but I believe most (if not all) European diesels have filters. American diesels don't because the high-sulphur ruins them.

When it comes to CO2 emissions, Honda's i-CTDi is pretty clean. The CTDi 2,2i in the Accord saloon only puts out 143 g/km. Even the cars with smaller engines like the Civic (1,4i and 1,6i) and FR-V (1,7i and 2,0i) put out more CO2. In fact only the Jazz (1,2i and 1,4i) puts out less CO2 than the Accord saloon CTDi.
(These specifications are for Hungary. It might vary between countries).

robertsmx

Diesels are expected to do better with CO2 emissions, and European measurements are limited to it. A better measure would be to measure all emissions for a logical comparison. I guess, we will have to wait for it.

But going back to your earlier point, FR-V will overlap with CR-V and Element, so it will be a redundant model. CR-V could use a more FR-V like set up but relatively compact 3+3 seating isn't going to be a selling point in America since this market is different from Europe. Even with minivans that can claim upto 8 passengers, I consider them good for 5-6 people for a road trip. Small utes or sedans are good for 4 people.

hungarian83

Now that I think about it, the FR-V's center seats probably would be a bit too small for the US. I think a good candidate for the Latitude could be the JDM Odyssey, but IMO the FR-V still could work.

In Hungary, the FR-V is priced from about $25k-32k US. The CR-V on the other hand STARTS at about $34k US, so right there you have some major price differentation as well. That would not exist in the United States since the CR-V starts at about $20k and the FR-V would probably be in the same range.
Incidentally the Jazz is about $13k-$20k in Hungary, so US consumers will be getting quite a price break.

bottgers

When is the Fit supposed to start arriving at the dealerships?

sniffles

It looks like this coming summer the Fit will be here.

 

http://hondapreview.com/fit/index.htm

 

Sniffles

robertsmx

I would expect Honda to show the car at one of the major auto shows early 2005 if it were to arrive in summer. According to Car Connection, Honda is due to showcase Acura RDX (compact SUV), Honda Ridgeline (pickup) and a Honda Hybrid SUV (may be an additional trim to one of the existing models, or could be RDX itself) at NAIAS. No mention of Jazz/Fit for this show.

raychuang00

"According to Car Connection, Honda is due to showcase Acura RDX (compact SUV), Honda Ridgeline (pickup) and a Honda Hybrid SUV (may be an additional trim to one of the existing models, or could be RDX itself) at NAIAS."

 

REALLY!? It will be very interesting to see what the Acura RDX will look like. Will it bear a strong resemblence to the Honda FR-V/Edix MPV now on sale in Europe and Japan for the past few months?

 

If you've seen the original Acura RD-X concept car shown a few years ago, by ignoring the wild styling of that concept car you'll notice a strong platform resemblence to the FR-V/Edix design. This is why I think the Acura RDX will look a lot like the FR-V/Edix but with a different front end and rear tailgate design. Also, unlike the FR-V/Edix, the front seats will only accommodate two passengers (no sliding center seat), but the rear seats will have the center seat sliding feature.

 

Honda may be holding off showing the second-generation Fit/Jazz for the US market until the second-generation model is unveiled in Japan, probably this coming summer.

john500

An acquaintance recently went to France and commented that gasoline costs $8/gallon (after the english-metric conversion). How much does gasoline cost in Hungary?

hungarian83

The 95 unleaded (most cars use this) costs about 240 forint/liter. The official exchange rate to the dollar is 185,5 forint/US$ today. So that is about US$1,30/liter or US$4,90/gallon.

 

Of course the US dollar is weak now, and this price is dependent on the relationship of the US$ and Hungarian Forint. I distinctly remember paying about 240/liter when the exchange rate was 230 forint/US$. That would be US$3,95/gallon.

laoma

I just had my first look at a Honda Fit hatchback at a dealership in Beijing. I have haven't been so enthusiastic about a new car since I sat in a VW bug for the first time many years ago. It reminds me of the old bug in fact. It is simple, functional and feels great. I am over 6ft and there is plenty of leg and head room for me and the bucket seats are very comfortable. Value for money it beats the VW Polo hands down. In China they are priced at from about USD$12000. I think it will put the fun back into driving.

muffin_man

I'm pretty sure that the classic term for liftback is fastback.

backy

Liftback has nothing to do with fastback. the term fastback was around long before liftback, at least as early as the mid-60s wrt the Mustang. Liftback was coined by Toyota in the 70s for their hatchbacks, including hatchbacks that look nothing like a "fastback".

hokuto

Two years after buying mine (see my earlier message No. 61 on this board) I still love my Fit. My earlier complaints remain, but I still consider it top notch value. Honda Japan has finally introduced a stick shift to the lineup here together with some other slight variations, but the 1300cc engine + CVT is the way to go if you're looking for excellent economy and value. I still have trouble believing that this car has an engine that puts out horsepower equivalent to 110% engine displacement (in cu inches), and runs on regular gas with nearly 1:11 compression--and can still produce 50 mpg on the highway. Just a few years ago engine performance like that would have been limited to muscle cars.

sniffles

OK, it looks like the Fit will be here a year from now.

 

http://www.cars.com/news/stories/012605_storya_aw.jhtml?page=news- story&aff=national

raychuang00

I have this feeling that the new smaller car from Honda will NOT be based on the current Honda Fit because Honda needs to do the following:

 

1. Size the interior to accommodate American-sized passengers.

 

2. Design the car so it can accommodate side-curtain airbags, something that the current Fit cannot do.

 

3. Design the car so it uses a true independent rear suspension unlike the beam-axle rear suspension of the current Fit; one complaint about the Fit is that because of the use of a beam-axle rear suspension the car's handling can get "upset" by severe potholes or speed bumps.

 

Given the rumors that the a second-generation Fit is due in Japan later this year I wouldn't be surprised that the second-generation Fit is the car we finally get.

hungarian83

I believe they are saying that the car will be based on the Fit/Jazz, but not necessarily the current one. It would not make sense to sell the old model in the United States, when the new generation is being sold everywhere else. Although Honda is popular and well-known, it is not a large company, and it would not make sense on their part to sell an outdated model in only one market. The fact that they are waiting for the second generation is probably why the arrival in the US keeps getting pushed ahead.

 

Regarding the size. Although it is a very small car, it is also quite tall and the engine area is very small, which allows for a considerable amount of interior room. There is a website in Hungary (totalcar.hu) that has a TV show on occasionally. Back in 2003, they had a 10 minute program on the Jazz and a road test. The person who did the test was not a small person, and he commented on the size of both the front seats, back seats, and the rather large size of the cargo area. Although he was comparing it to other European models, there are some very small cars that are selling well in the US. (Toyota Scion xA for example)

raychuang00

The fact that they are waiting for the second generation is probably why the arrival in the US keeps getting pushed ahead.

 

You mean pushed back. :-)

 

I have heard that Honda is opening a factory in Brazil that will build the Fit for the South American market. That's why I hear rumors that US-market Honda Fits will be sourced from this new Brazilian factory, and it will be the second-generation model. From the Autoweek magazine article, the US-market Fit will arrive about this time next year as the first of the 2007 models.

suiqide

Where can I find photos/ideas to modify my Honda Jazz?

mebman

There is an interesting article about the engine to be used in the 06 Fit and the possibility of a Hybrid Fit.(Dare to dream how good the gas mileage would be on a hybrid Fit.)http://www.honda-acura.net/index.php?categoryid=1&p2_articleid=125&PHPSESSID=9350cae32575cee49fe35f5255b9f23e
I for one just cant wait for this car!

tnyjr123

Does anyone know if Honda will be including the option of having a 1.3 liter or even a 1.2 liter engine in the fit like they have available in the UK (link below). I currently own a 1990 Honda civic hatchback with a 4 speed 1.5 liter 70 hp engine and that is plenty of power for me, I actually tow a 1980 15' glastron gx150 with a 75hp johnson engine runabout (about 2,000lbs) during the summer with no problem and I probably have 60hp with the age of the engine and gaskets. The 1.2 liter would most likely get better gas milage than a 1.5 hybrid. And it is sad to see the civic hatchback going away. http://www.honda.co.uk/cars/newcars/specification.jsp?yearId=2005&modelId=10408&bodyId=107- 29&bodyDescription=5%20door&engineId=&badgeId=&transmissionId=&colourId=&colourAllocationI- d=&wheelPartNo=&optionType=spec

mebman

There is a photo of a redesign of the fit/Jazz for the Asia market. Seeing as how American Honda always gets sloppy seconds on all the cool new models that the rest of the world enjoys, this may be it. http://motoring.asia1.com.sg/cgi-bin/motorbb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=13;t=000255

hungarian83

I saw these pictures sometime ago, and they look like they were done on Adobe Photoshop. First, I highly doubt Honda is going to make a three-door Jazz/Fit. Secondly, the rear of the "future Jazz" appears to be almost identical to the rear half of the Toyota Ist (xA).
I think the image that gives away the secret that it is photoshop is the picture of the Civic right above the Jazz. You can tell that the engine compartment they used was from a picture of another car taken at a different angle. The wheels, grille, and most of the body were taken from a picture of the current Civic farther down the page.
Notice the picture of the "future Civic" is indoors, but it has what appears to be a reflection of a building outside on the side doors. That exact same reflection is visible on the current Civic picture about six pictures down in the forum section of the webpage.

Don't worry...this isn't the second generation Jazz.

rickc310

Hey took some pics of this car today. they were filming it. It was cool enough for me to run and grab the camera.

It was a 5 door version, very cute. If anyone want's the pics email me at
rickc310@yahoo.com
(that's at yahoo.com in case it gets masked)
and I'll send them. I haven't uploaded them anywhere yet.

RC

rickc310

I had a few people write so I uploaded the pics

http://www.californiahypno.com/media/honda-1.JPG

http://www.californiahypno.com/media/honda-2.JPG

backy

Are you sure this is the new Jazz/Fit? It looks BIG--about as big as the minivans sold in places other than North America. It looks like a minivan, too.

rickc310

no this thing was small. 13" wheels. If you look close it looks like the fit/jazz with about 18" added to the back.

dudleyr

Looks like a regular station wagon - I like it. They will probably come up with some goofy name though - active sports crossover utility vehicle etc.

I hope it has a manual transmission.

a_l_hubcaps

Thanks for the pics. I'm not sure what this is. It reminds me of some spy pics I saw on another board awhile ago, but they are gone (broken links) now. It resembles a few things on the Honda Japan site, particularly the Stream and Edix, but it's clearly something new. This is definitely too large to be the Fit though. The Fit is tiny. And I'd be willing to bet those are not 13" wheels. I am in the hubcap business and I'm good at eyeballing wheel sizes. I am 95% sure those are 15" wheels, though I could believe 14".

-Andrew L

rickc310

How much is the bet? and where can I collect?

I promise they were 13" :O)

claudius753

That vehicle does look quite big. I'm not sure because I can't really get a perspective of it beside a vehicle I know. I REALLY hope that is not the Fit. It looks like a mini-van.

I was hoping Honda would bring the Fit that Japan has currently over here. 1.5L i-DSI that gets 40+ mpg with a CVT that has a 7 speed sequential mode. That would be very cool indeed.

-Nathan

makabe

I think the vehicle in the pix is some variation on the JDM Odyssey. You can see a picture of the Odyssey at http://www.honda.co.jp/auto-lineup/odyssey/photo-lib/photo05.html

There are some subtle differences, but overall I think it's the same car. Maybe this is the rumored Acura minivan...

rickc310

well I don't know what it is but I stood right next to it and it was smaller then a Ford Focus Wagon and had 13" wheels.

The great thing is they spent 12 hours filming it so it will be on the TV or web soon.

odman

Looks like a replacement for the Honda Stream which itself is not that big (but bigger than a Focus wagon). Could you tell if it had a 3rd row of seats? This looks more like a Civic wagon than a Fit/Jazz.

Looks like it is wearing an Acura grille -- maybe we are going to get an EL wagon!

rickc310

Nope, no 3rd row seating. There is only about 2 feet, less then a meter, space behind the 2nd row seating.

I thought it might be a civic wagon but the 13" wheels threw me. Civic's have 14" wheel don't they?

a_l_hubcaps

I just looked up the wheel specs on the current Fit: 14" standard, 15" optional. There is just no way this vehicle had 13" wheels. Did you actually walk up to it and read the size off the tire sidewall?

-Andrew L

rickc310

well I very well might be mistaken. the wheels looked like they were smaller then a civic's wheels, sorta like the wheels that they have on a toyota echo (or did when they first came out)

I did not read the tire size but I noticed the wheels as sub-standard size.

dmundy1

According to another site I stumbled upon that vehicle is going to be called the Honda Airwave and goes on sale in Japan April 7th 2005.
http://motoring.asia1.com.sg/cgi-bin/motorbb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=7;t=002060
Looks almost like a wagon/small MPV based off of the Fit/Jazz, is rumoured to replace the Stream, and has a partial glass roof. The pictures are certainly not a North American version as it appears to be right hand drive, and the rear bumper would not meet our standards.
Great catch RickC.
Here is a link to the Airwave on the Honda Japan site;
http://www.honda.co.jp/AIRWAVE/index.html

rickc310

YUP! that's the car. They are filming it again today and I got some more pics. I don't have the usb cable here with me so I'll up load them tonight.

a_l_hubcaps

rickc310-

Can you tell what side the steering wheel is on? I'm curious if this is potentially a US-spec vehicle, or if they are just taking press pics for the Japanese release.

-Andrew L

rickc310

It's left hand drive.

makabe

Hey rickc310--Great catch getting the pix. Keep up the good work!

strager

If the Airwave is really 18" or so longer than a Fit/Jazz, then that would have enough luggage room and address the primary complaint about the Scion xA, which is similar in size to the Fit.

Perhaps Honda will sell both the regular Fit and the Airwave wagon here. The April NY Show could provide a clue.

But I really think that the Airwave is here simply for a TV commercial for the Japanese market.

dudleyr

That is a nice vehicle - hope they bring it here.

rickc310

more pics

http://www.californiahypno.com/media/honda-3.JPG

http://www.californiahypno.com/media/honda-4.JPG

http://www.californiahypno.com/media/honda-7.JPG

Doesn't look much like a minivan here :O)

vcarreras

Very nice. I too hope it comes here. It would go very well with our 05 Ody EX.

http://www.honda.co.jp/AIRWAVE/movie/