Honda Fit

jojojo

will there be a 3 door model? if it will only come with 5 doors, i would want the front seats to jump forward so i dont have to open the back doors to throw stuff in the back seat.

carzzz

24 km/ L = 56.7 miles per US gallon

http://www.honda.co.jp/auto-lineup/fit/mechanism/index.html

that's even better than hybrid car!

raychuang00

...I have this feeling that the model Americans get will not be the current model sold in most of the world.

I cite the following reasons:

1. The current Fit wasn't designed with Honda's Safety For Everyone philosophy, which means the Fit would probably not survive the very severe IIHS side-impact test, let alone get a high EuroNCAP crash test rating!

2. The Fit wasn't designed with American-sized passengers in mind.

This is why I wouldn't be surprised that Honda officially unveils the second-generation Honda Fit at either the Los Angeles Auto Show or NAIAS in Detroit in January 2006. It will be a slightly larger car than the current model (so it could accommodate American-sized passengers and offer better side protection with side-curtain airbags), and will likely use a modified L15 1.5-liter I-4 engine with the same SOHC i-VTEC technology used on the R18 engine on the 2006 Civic. Transmission choices will likely be 5MT and CVT-7 automatic (the first time the CVT-7 is available on a US-market Honda model).

vcarreras

Do you think that our FIT could be the AIRWAVE which is based on the FIT but slightly larger?

http://www.honda.co.jp/AIRWAVE/

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Articles/articleId=105318

http://www.japanesecarfans.com/photos.cfm/photoid/3050407.001/page/1/size/large/honda/1.ht- ml

backy

I hope not. I want a small, highly fuel efficient around-town car. The Airwave is more a micro-van.

dudleyr

I really like the airwave.

raychuang00

I don't think we'll get the Airwave in the US market, mostly because even with the L15 110 bhp engine the car will still be a bit underpowered.

That's why I think we'll see a second-generation Fit with a 120 bhp L-series engine with the same type of i-VTEC SOHC valvetrain used on the new R18 engine from the 2006 Civic. It will be sold in both five-door hatchback and four-door sedan versions.

raychuang00

http://world.honda.com/news/2005/c050720_a.html

In the summary of this speech from the web site listed above, Honda CEO Takeo Fukui noted that the Brazilian production Fits will arrive in Mexico this Fall and Japanese-built Fits will arrive in the USA and Canada next spring. (I can guess that if demand is strong don't be surprised that the Brazilian production line could supply Fits to the US/Canada market.)

I expect the Mexican-market Fit to probably use the 1.3-liter I-4 i-DSI engine already sold worldwide today, but the US/Canadian market Fit will use a modified L15 engine with the same improved SOHC i-VTEC valvetrain design found on the 2006 Civic. That means US market models will have an engine rated in the 115-120 bhp SAE range, but will probably have more mid-range torque than the current 1.5-liter I-4 VTEC engine sold in Japan and southeastern Asia.

sniffles

Thanks for this info raychuang00. It was an interesting read. I have a feeling the Fit
for the USA with manual transmission will be rated in the high 30's for the city and
the high 40's for the highway. I'm planning on buying a new car next spring and I
think the Fit will be the car for me.

Sniffles

mebman

I for one am so mad I could spit nails! Every time we get an announcement from Honda, it is delaying the arrival of the fit by at least 6 more months.

raychuang00

Every time we get an announcement from Honda, it is delaying the arrival of the fit by at least 6 more months.

Mind you, I think the reason why Honda has delayed so long is the fact Honda may be qualifying for the NA-market Fit a 1.5-liter gasoline-only version of the 1.3-liter SOHC i-VTEC engine that will be used on the next-generation Civic Hybrid. As such, the engine will probably be rated at around 105-110 bhp SAE and be VERY fuel-efficient.

boomchek

ummm. I thought everybody knew that the Fit won't arrive until March. We (Honda Delaers) knew that early this year.

mebman

You arent feeling my frustration because you probably havent been waiting for this car as long as I have. Take a look at the history of this board. We've been waiting and watching since 2002. I for one am particularly eager because I have been in this car in the UK, and know how great it is. The fit/jazz has been in the rest of the world for many years, and we in the US/Canada will be the last to get it. American Honda is very slow to market, and losing ground to Toyota/Scion as a result.

micweb

Honda has a lot more problems than losing ground to the meager Scion xA sales (the Fit's closest competitor). For some reason the current generation Civic hasn't been that popular (dull styling, weak engines, switch from double wishbone front suspension to struts?), and sales in the current year, 2005, are dismal no doubt as fans await the vastly changed 2006 (it had better be vastly changed). Honda needs to make the Civic more competitive to the Corolla in terms of basic functions and features while making it once again appealing to the tuner/wish I had a Beemer crowd. Between the Corolla for appliance buyers, and the Focus for cheap thrills, the Civic has been hard pressed.

If the Scion xA and Echo had sold like Toyota hoped, we would have seen the Fit a lot sooner.

The only reason the Fit is coming over now, is because the Civic is so "grown up" Honda needs an entry level car.

The charm of the Fit to me was in it being a "premium micro-car" like the MINI. If Honda cheapens it to meet a price, I will be looking at the xA and its replacement(s), the Yaris, instead - Scion did one good thing with the xA, which was to include an increment of "premium" in it, instead of "cheap."

raychuang00

Honda has a lot more problems than losing ground to the meager Scion xA sales (the Fit's closest competitor). For some reason the current generation Civic hasn't been that popular (dull styling, weak engines, switch from double wishbone front suspension to struts?), and sales in the current year, 2005, are dismal no doubt as fans await the vastly changed 2006 (it had better be vastly changed). Honda needs to make the Civic more competitive to the Corolla in terms of basic functions and features while making it once again appealing to the tuner/wish I had a Beemer crowd.

Well, from what Honda CEO Takeo Fukui has said about the 2006 Civics, they will definitely be more driver-oriented cars--the engines are brand-new with more performance without sacrificing fuel economy, and the suspensions have been upgraded for a more sporty feel like the 1996-2000 models. Given the fact that Honda will officially unveil the final version of the 2006 Civic Si coupé at the 2005 Special Equipment Manufacturers Show (SEMA) late this Fall, you know that Honda will make the new Civic easily upgradeable with performance accessories from third parties like Jackson Racing, Mugen, etc. :shades:

But getting back on topic, if we do get the second-generation Fit/Jazz that is coming out in Japan in late Spring 2006, I also expect Honda to either offer a lot of upgrades and/or allow third parties to offer upgrades for the car, too.

micweb

I agree that the new Civic sounds tantalizing - the engine especially, I'd like to see that much torque and horsepower combined with increased gas mileage. But I haven't found recent Civics to handle well, and I hope they upgrade the brake size. The one thing I did love about my 2003 Civic Coupe was its ultra quiet fan. I did feel I was sitting a little low and claustrophobic compared to the higher sitting positions of the Focus, xA, and Golf.

As for the Fit, if they just drop the current generation 1.7 engine in it, it should be great even though that engine is rated at meager horsepower - but with the new engine from the new Civic it would be fantastic, I think the tuner crowd would beat a path to its door, it would have a terrific power to weight ratio.. If they backslide to a weak 1.5 engine like the xA (the biggest problem with the xA) I think sales will disappoint them. The xA was a turtle.

tacoboy

Perhaps a bit off topic, but I just read in Autoweek that Honda will be giving the US a new CRX! I for one would be ecstatic about this and may hold off a car purchase to get it if it's out by 2007. Anybody have any info about this? Will it be built off the Fit/Jazz platform or the Civic? If it's true someone should start a thread in future vehicles.

micweb

Seems to be built on the Civic platform, like the first CRX. The only advantage over a normal Civic or Si that I can think of, would be maybe lighter weight (for faster acceleration) and shorter length (easier urban parking) but you'd give up the rear seats. I had a second generation CRX and got it only because it was cheaper than a regular Civic, if you can believe that... the del Sol which replaced it was more expensive and didn't have as many fans. These things have to hit a certain price point.

mebman

I agree that the civic is just too "grown up", and that Honda no longer makes small fun cars. I think that a large oppertunity to remedy this has been missed by not bringing a Civic hatch to the US for 06. I have been in a fit and it is a lot bigger than the scion xa on the inside. The Yaris (echo hatchback) should do much better than the echo coupe just for the hatch. They sell well in the rest of the world already. The hatch not only looks better but provides MUCH more utility for a small car.
As much as I complain about American Honda's terminally slow pace of bringing the Fit to market, I am still waiting for the Fit.

scottw2

I will wait to see what the Fit has to offer when they come out. I was looking at a xA but I think I can wait for the Honda to come out. I just hope there is not the wait like for the xA. Here in the midwest there is about a 3 month wait to get a xA. Plus there are none on the dealer's lots to really even look at. It seems like Scion is really targeting the coasts with their cars.

mebman

Take a drive down to Houston if you want an XA. I have seen plenty of them on the lots around here. The trunk on the XA is just too small for me. I have been in the fit, and the XA.The Fit/Jazz is a much nicer car with a lot more room and better gas mileage than the XA. Unless American Honda really messes up the 06 redesign, the fit will be the new standard of small cars in the US.

micweb

You said:

The trunk on the XA is just too small for me.

As a former owner of an xA, I think calling it a "trunk" is an exaggeration. It is barely deep enough to take a paper grocery bag. The rear headrests blocked so much of the view that I took one out, placed it in the trunk, and lost almost 25% of my trunk space (measured underneath the privacy cover, not to the roof).

vcarreras

From Autoweek..

http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=102978

Scheduled to go on sale next spring or summer.

backy

I think you may be understating the appeal of this car. With gas over $2.50 and rising, I think many buyers will appreciate the Fit. It will remind many (as it does me) of the Civics of just a few years ago, e.g. the Civic wagons from '84-'91. It promises to have good room for four (with room for 2 adults + 3 kids if needed), great fuel economy, excellent safety features, tossable handling, good versatility, and Honda reliability. It has appeal to me as an around-town commuting car that can hold my entire family of 5 in a pinch and will make a great hand-me-down to my daughter when she goes to college in a few years. Read all the posts in this discussion--you won't see many saying "I'm going to buy a Fit for my kid." Although that would work too.

salesmanager

"I think you may be understating the appeal of this car. With gas over $2.50 and rising, I think many buyers will appreciate the Fit. It will remind many (as it does me) of the Civics of just a few years ago, e.g. the Civic wagons from '84-'91."

Agreed, the car certainly has some appeal, and promises to have a little more oomph than the Scion xA or xB. And yeah, you're right, it promises to be more than just a "kid car" like an Echo.

But I stand by my contention that the car will appeal primarily to Honda loyalists, and I don't believe that it will bring new buyers to the brand like a Scion xB or tC.

-Tony

backy

OK. My prediction is that there will be long waiting lists for the Fit. In about a year, we'll see who's right.

odman

My prediction is that the Fit will bring in a lot of new customers who were being lost to Hyundai, Kia and Chevy (Aveo), or to the 'nearly-new, used market'.

Although it's not a huge jump, the Civic is a step up in price. Fit opens up the entry level for them and allows them to attract budget-conscious drivers. Sure, some sales will be cannibalized Civic sales but I think 40-50% will be new to 'brand new Honda' status.

Once they have had the Fit, I predict they WILL become Honda Loyalists!

qbrozen

I'm with odman on this.

Frankly, I think the Civic has gotten a bit pricey. Its no longer much of a "basic" car.

georget

For those who know their Fits. Is the one pictured in the autoweek article a 2005 or the new redesigned 2006?

I guess if it were the 2006 everyone would be talking about it. Anyway, it's nice to see some activity on this board. I really don't care what it looks like if it can haul my stuff, and get 50 mpg.

backy

It's the old one.

I hope it will get 50 mpg. I have this feeling Honda will put the higher-performance engine in the U.S. Fit, meaning it might not make 50 (at least not on the EPA ratings).

georget

Thanks for the info Backy. If Honda does not offer a super economy option in their US Fit, I will be very disappointed. That, IMO would be the #1 feature that would make the Honda Fit one of the most desirable "second" cars in the US next year, especially if gas prices stay where they are. Some people are keeping their SUVs parked in the driveway and are riding their motorcycles to work to save gas.

Come on Honda. Don't mess this up. Offer two engines in the Fit. One for superior economy, and one for performance.

vcarreras

shown also the 05 or are they the 06?

http://www.edmunds.com/future/2006/honda/fit/100401888/photos.html#

They only mention one engine a 1.5 liter DOHC engine with direct fuel
injection. No hp rating given. Hope it gives in the 40's mpg city and 50's
highway. It'll probably come with 5 speed standard and maybe the CVT
from the AIRWAVE.

raychuang00

My prediction is that there will be long waiting lists for the Fit. In about a year, we'll see who's right.

If the fuel efficiency of the US-market Honda Fit is quite a bit better than the 2006 Civic models, then I wouldn't be surprised that Honda sells out its entire 60,000 first year allotment in no time flat.

Given the rumors that the second-generation model (the one that we'll likely get) can accommodate the R-series engine block planned for the new Civic, I can see Honda offering two different R-series block engines in SOHC i-DSI fuel-efficient (probably around 115 bhp) and SOHC i-VTEC sporty (130 bhp) forms. Can you imagine a 2,300 lb. Honda Fit with a 130 bhp engine? That vehicle could end up being quite fast.

It's likely that by Spring 2007 Honda will also start selling a four-door sedan version of the new Fit, probably under the City name.

makabe

The Hollywood Extra blog has an illustration posted here. Looks like a cross between the current Fit and a 1984 Civic hatchback. Check it out.

txptc

I also hope Honda comes out with a "smaller engine/higher mileage" version of the Fit. I had a 1985 Honda Civic hatchback for 18 years with the 1.3 liter engine and even during the last year of ownership I was getting 45 miles to the gallon. Granted, it wasn't very powerful, but it was very very cheap to drive. Unfortunately it couldn't pass the yearly emissions tests in TX and I had to get rid of it.

In today's car market so many of the manufacturers focus more on power than fuel efficiency. It's kind of sad that I owned a 1985 old technology automobile that was capable of 50 mpg (yes, I did get over 50 mpg's a few times) and people are now buying hybrids for $20k+ that get about 50 mpg. What's wrong with this picture? Yes, there is a market out there for people that don't care that much about how fast their car does zero to 60 in. I'd definately be interested in a 2nd car that gets great gas mileage but doesn't cost an arm and a leg to purchase.

Honda, please offer a high mileage version of the Fit!

Kirstie_H

A reporter would like to hear from consumers who, thanks to rising fuel prices, have newfound interest in hybrids and other fuel-efficient vehicles. If you have a story to share, please respond to jfallon@edmunds.com with your daytime contact info, city/state of residence and the make/model in question no later than Monday, August 29, 2005.

txptc

With gasoline approaching $3.00 per gallon, I don't think sales will disappoint if Honda puts in a smaller engine that gets better gas mileage. There actually is a buyer market out there that doesn't need a car that goes 0 to 60 in 8 seconds. You'd be suprised how many people would spend the money for a non-hybrid quality car that gets close to 50 mpg, doesn't cost an arm and a leg and isn't a burner.

jazz4me

I agree totally!

raychuang00

...I've read that the Honda Jazz powered by the 1.4-liter i-DSI engine (the one that is supposed to be quite fuel efficient thanks to its unusual dual-spark ignition chambers) is a bit weak on power (it's only rated at 83 bhp). I don't think American drivers will take to such a vehicle, that's to be sure.

Besides, with the arrival of i-VTEC SOHC valvetrains, that could mean more power without sacrificing fuel economy. Remember the 1.3-liter i-VTEC engine planned for the 2006 Civic Hybrid sedan, which is rated at 95 bhp (SAE 8/04 net)? Well, a larger-displacement version of that engine (maybe a 1.5-liter version) could probably generate about 112-115 bhp (SAE 8/04 net) and paired with the CVT-7 transmission, the result could be a Honda Fit with impressive performance with the same fuel economy as that 1.4-liter i-DSI engine! :shades:

txptc

I hope Honda realizes that there is a market out there for people who want a smaller engine that sacrifices power for better fuel economy and offers several engine size options. Back when I bought my Civic hatchback in 1985 they offered a very very basic stripped down version that had a 1.3 liter engine, with only a manual transmission and it was only offered in 2 colors. The power in it was lacking but it got fantastic gas mileage. Hopefully they'll do something like that again for those of us that just want good basic transportation without all the bells and whistles. And then they also offer a couple of other engine options for those people that want better performance.

georget

I totally agree. My 77 Subaru had a 1600cc engine that was pretty weak, but I got 40 mpg . Even if gas prices went back down to $1.00 a gallon, I want a car that uses as little fuel as possible. I'm tired of our country being at the mercy of foreign oil. It's time to minimize. Make my Fit with hand crank windows please!

billmchale

Well.. the fuel economy on the car should be pretty good... if a civic with a 1.8 liter engine can get 40 MPG I see no reason that a 1.5 liter in a smaller car shouldn't do even better. I actually wish they would offer a slightly more powerful engine for the car. If you got the 1.6 they use to put in the Civic EX into the Jazz/Fit and a good suspension you would have a nice little sleeper that should still get upper 30s in fuel economy .

micweb

Actually a lot of them, they were popular (don't ask me why the same car was sold with both Fit and Jazz nameplates).

It is VERY similar in size to the Scion xA; could have been a sibling. I was expecting something a little bigger.

I also saw the new Yaris, but this was the size of the new Mazda5, and didn't look at all like the Yaris now announced for the US in 2006:

http://www.toyota.com/vehicles/future/yaris.html

Maybe the Yaris I saw (3 row seating) is a variant.

raychuang00

hope Honda realizes that there is a market out there for people who want a smaller engine that sacrifices power for better fuel economy and offers several engine size options.

I think given the higher fuel efficiency of the new i-VTEC SOHC engines, the 2007 US-market Honda Fit will (in my humble opinion! ) likely use the three-phase i-VTEC SOHC engine from the 2006 Civic Hybrid, but in a 1.5-liter form for about 112-115 bhp (SAE 08/04 net) output. While I do commend the impressive fuel efficiency of the 1.4-liter i-DSI engine, its relatively low power output (only 83 bhp!) won't cut it for American drivers used to cars with more powerful engines.

ludexr

I don’t understand why people would like to see Honda built a Fit with a powerful engine with 1.6 used in the civic. That wouldn’t make the Fit a fuel economy car. If you want a 1.6 engine why not just buy the civic. As for the tuner crowd they would buy the Fit, then replace the engine with RSX type-S engine and mod it out to get 250 to 300 HP the same as Custom Spoonsport Racing Fit in Japan.

billmchale

Ludexr, you have to remember you can't get the 1.6 in a Civic anymore. The current Civic uses a 1.7 and the new one uses a 1.8. I just think it would be nice if Honda would treat the Fit as something besides a pure economy car.

georget

There are two camps of motorist here. Those who want to go far, and those who want to go fast. Perhaps some of us are hoping that Honda is monitoring this board and will make their decision based on our input. Fortunately or unfortunately, Honda has already made their decision. If Honda does not give us what we want, then perhaps the Toyota Yaris or the new Nissan micro car will.

qbrozen

You're leaving out alot of details as to what makes a car efficient. Weight being a MAJOR factor. So if you compare a 1.6 Civic to a 1.6 Fit, the Fit will still get better mileage AND be faster. So you can have your cake and drive it fast, too.

billmchale

That is true.. though actually we should compare the Fit with the last 1.6 Civic. It might not be alot lighter than the DX hatchback was.

That being said, there is a third group of people here. I consider myself an enthusiast but one who appreciates small light cars that can be run efficiently but can also go pretty fast and more importantly can make a twisty road a blast . I am looking for something that handles like a mini-cooper, goes like say a Civic SI and has the reliability of a Honda or Toyota and still gets 35mpg. A Fit with a 130 hp 1.6 liter engine could meet those requirements. Sigh.. its a shame that such cars just aren't appreciated in America... or at least by enough Americans to make them worth while for car makers to take notice.

qbrozen

I don't know. I see alot of Scion Tcs on the road, so i think there is a market for this. It just has to be done right.

It seems manufacturers THINK they are offering us the right thing and, when it flops, decide "americans just don't want this type of car." Meanwhile, they didn't consider the fact that the car they offered us was heavier, less fuel efficient, and more expensive than the European version that we were really pining after.

I mean, look at the most recent Civic Si. Its relatively expensive and comes with only the 160 hp engine. That's not what we wanted! We wanted the 200 hp one! But they won't give us that for fear of canibalizing Acura sales. So the Si sells in abysmal numbers and they think we don't want the car. Its quite frustrating for both the manufacturer and the buyer.

Then look at the decent hot hatches that DO come our way. We get fairly decent cars like the BMW 318, Benz CLk230, the new volvo V40, and audi A3 ... but look at the prices!! Good grief, I don't want to spent nearly $30K on a compact hatch!