Honda Fit

wheelz4

Kirstie_H

Can this vehicle, already selling in Japan, make it in the US market? Preview the upcoming subcompact hatch here. What do you think?

Kirstie_H

jchan2

the car will sell great if high fuel prices make that Ford Excursion too expensive for most families and if the price is right, say not over $15,999.

backy

Can it make it? Yes, if it's priced below the Civic, has a better ride than the Scions (not difficult), has excellent fuel economy (likely), and traditional Honda quality and reliability. This is the #2 best selling car in Japan and I've seen them all over China also. There's lots of small hatchbacks to choose from in Japan and China, so the Fit must have something going for it.

jchan2

they're all over the place. I was there in March and for every one Toyota I saw (any model, excluding the Taxis), there would be at least three more Honda Fits around town.

backy

I was in HK in March too! Probably walked right past each other and never knew it. ;-)

jchan2

lol.

bpratico

http://www.honda.co.jp/Fit/showroom/sense/index.html

jchan2

looks nice, although I'd want a Fit in a color other than Yellow. Yellow makes it look too much like a Volkswagen New Beetle or a Taxi.

mebman

I have seen this car on a trip to Scotland. It is GREAT! This thing was JD Powers car of the year in the UK last year. I would have brought it back with me but the U.S.government makes it almost impossible to do so. Is it just me or does it seem to be painstakingly slow awaiting the arrival of this car? Honestly I would buy 2 of these cars tomorrow if I could. Honda however seems content to continue to lose market share to Toyota while they offer this car to almost the entire world but the US for the last 2 years. This is an outrage. Most of the auto manufacturers selling cars in the US act as if a small hatchback was the kiss of death. I live in Texas, land of the monster truck, and I like little cars! Is anybody with me on that one? I hope Honda looks at these boards cause I WANT MY MTV--I mean FIT!

jchan2

The thing is, most Americans want a huge car and would rather buy a stripped down large car instead of a loaded up smaller car. Some people think differently, like you, but sadly most Americans think "Bigger! Hey! It must be better!" I don't think the same way though. I like small cars, always have. The Honda Fit would sell well, if gasoline prices go up high enough for Americans to think that Bigger cars aren't always better cars than a smaller version.

silver_bullet

I'm another Texan who is tired of sharing the road with huge trucks and SUVs. I'm 6'5", but I've always preferred small, light, efficient vehicles as long as they are well engineered and built. I'd quite likely buy a Fit if it becomes available soon, but I won't wait forever. Maybe the Smart will get here first?

odman

Since introducing the Echo hatch in Canada, sales of that car have exploded (even Canadians didn't really want the sedan). Problem is, sales of the higher-profit margin Corolla dipped. Honda probably figures that if it brought the Fit over too soon, sales of the outdated but still higher margin Civic would fall too.

I can't wait for the Fit to come, but sensing lower profits, Honda probably doesn't want to do it till it is necessary. It's too bad -- it would give the Echo HB and Aveo a real run for their money.

odman

BTW: I'm also 6'5", and I love smaller cars too. We had the Smart car at the Toronto Auto Show and I couldn't believe the amount of spare room I had. I saw a picture of a 350 lb. guy in one, and he looked like he had lots of space too.

I also recently drove the Echo HB and found it had lots of room too (more than an older Corolla I drove). Unfortunately, I haven't been in a Fit before, but it sounds like a space-efficient, tall-car too.

jchan2

In Hong Kong, I saw a young woman who just finished shopping pile several bags into the Fit with the second row seat up. And this looked like a really small car, and the woman had maybe 10-15 paper bags worth of stuff.

wheelz4

Sales of the Corolla (and Civic, for that matter) may have dipped, but I think that has more to do with the presence of the new Mazda3 than it does with the Echo. BTW, I'm seeing a fair number of the (restyled)Echo sedans up here too, so both the hatch and the sedan seem to be selling well. Jazz/Fit would only cannibalize sales from the Civic hatch....oh, that's right, there IS no Civic hatch (save for the overpriced, undertired, underengined SiR).

odman

Yes, you are completely right. The very well executed Mazda3 has probably hurt Corolla (and Civic) more than Echo HB. Mazda3s are everwhere now.

well_informed

Honda could continue offering the excellent Civic HAtchback, in a non-performance version, but somehow they decided against it.

it is true they do not seem to compete with Toyota and offer many new s in new segments.

They were very slow with the Pilot, and they are even slower with their Pickup.

The Jazz is a small wagon, really. Has plenty of space in an externally very small package.

But it is best for city use. Even the Civic started that way, but getting bigger every 4 years, today's civic is a good highway car as well.

If they only did something about the terminally boring exterior styling of the current Civic 4-door..and even the coupe.

mebman

I spoke with a Honda dealer in Costa Rica, who was told that the US would be getting the Fit for 2005. I couldn't get it narrowed down any more than that. American Honda is just no help at all on trying to figure out the arrival of the fit. They haven't even heard of the car that has been taking the world by storm the last 2 years. Has anyone tried to import one of these? With Gas mileage on the CVT in the 40's, great pricing, hatch back utility, Honda reliability, this small on the outside-big on the inside car is going to outsell the civic. By the way this is a link to a good review of the Australian version (Jazz). http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_1762/article.html

makabe

I was down Seattle Honda yesterday and the sales manager said he heard rumors of the Fit/Jazz coming in June 2005 as a 2006 model. That makes sense from the standpoint of getting the next generation model here. The Fit/Jazz is really the perfect car for those of us who are looking for a replacement for our old Civic wagons. I thought about the Scion Xb, but it is just too boxy for me--the Fit/Jazz would really be the perfect vehicle--plenty of room for a family of four even with stuff.

Please Honda, BRING THE FIT/JAZZ to the USA! I would walk into the dealer and pay cash sight unseen, no test drive, full MSRP for one!

fdanna

I'm looking forward to seeing the Fit come to the US as well. What I'm not looking forward to is how Honda will package it.

I hate how you have to buy the EX to get ABS. Hopefully they'll realize it's standard on all Scion models and do the same. The only problem is, they'll have to do it on all their cars if they do it on the entry level!

robertsmx

Honda has mentioned that ABS and side airbags will be standard in all Acura (which is the case anyway) and Honda vehicles by 2005 (“model year” or “calendar year”, I dunno). So, they can be expected to be in Fit/Jazz if it comes around.

Regarding Fit’s “size”, it has been said that although the car is tiny on the outside, it offers about the same room as current Civic hatchback on the inside.

jchan2

It used to be that only the EX got ABS. I remember when I went shopping for an Accord back in 1997 that the main difference between the Special Edition version and the EX version was that the EX had ABS and came in many colors while the Special Edition came in three colors.

raychuang00

I personally think that Honda is ready to bring over the Honda Fit to the US market, especially in light of the higher fuel prices all over the USA.

But again, I have this feeling the US model may be an all-new machine that owes nothing to the current Honda Fit/Jazz sold in Japan and Europe. It will probably be on a slightly longer wheelbase to accommodate American-sized passengers, and the engine for the US model won't be the 1.4-liter I-4 i-DSI engine used now but an all-new 1.5-liter I-4 i-VTEC engine rated at around 108-112 bhp, tuned primarily for a wide torque band, fuel economy, and SULEV emissions certification. The transmission choice will be a six-speed manual or some sort of of automatic (either CVT or the new Antonov-design automatic with seven forward speeds).

Expect the price to be around US$2,000 to US$3,000 below that of the Honda Civic models.

mebman

Wow! That's a pretty specific feeling. However you do seem to be describing the Australian version called the Jazz.
Check out http://www.honda.com.au/jazz/ .
This is the coolest of cars as is, and I do hope that Honda doesn't Americanize it too much.
Am I the only one who is considering this car as an alternative to the Toyota Prius?

jchan2

looks good. If they put in a Hybrid, it might be viewed as an alternative to the Prius.

fdanna

I don't see Honda wanting to pour too much money into a low-end vehicle that people aren't going to shell out big dollars for. That being said, the only changes that they are likely to make are to cost-cutting changes. Hatches are warming up right now and Honda will probably just drop the hatch here.

No car in this class has a 6-speed manual and being that Japanese manufacturers usually don't buck the trends, this is highly unlikely, in my opinion.

I agree on the engine and the CVT.

backy

Two reasons Honda will do it:

1) To compete with other automakers offering cars in this class (Chevy, Hyundai, Kia etc.)

2) As an entry-level vehicle to draw people for whom the Civic is too pricey to the Honda brand, then have them trade up to Accords, Odys etc. in the future.

robertsmx

If Fit/Jazz arrives here, it will likely be offered with 5-speed manual or CVT (with 7-speed option via buttons mounted on steering wheel) as it is in the markets it is sold.

Ofcourse, I doubt it will arrive until the redesign, or it is possible North America will get the redesigned version before anybody else.

Currently, Jazz/Fit is offered with two engine choices...
1.3 liter i-DSI: 86 HP/88 lb.-ft (Base model)
1.5 liter VTEC: 110 HP/105 lb.-ft (Sport model)

jchan2

we'll just get the 1.5.

raychuang00

If Honda can qualify the Honda Fit in its current form for the US market, the only engine choice will be the 1.5-liter i-VTEC engine rated between 108 and 112 bhp (SAE) but tuned for a relatively flat torque curve and full SULEV emissions certification.

By the way, don't be surprised that the Antonov-design automatic transmission could end up on the US-market Honda Fit. Honda has the license to build this transmission and a seven-speed automatic based on the Antonov design could be an option besides the five-speed manual.

I do expect some changes for the US model (if they keep the current model sold in Japan and Europe). For one thing, the suspension setup could use different springs, shocks and sway bars for a better ride on American highways, especially at higher speeds. The steering system might have a different "feel" for better stability at freeway speeds. After all, unlike the Japanese and European market for the Fit/Jazz, ownders of the US-market Fit may do a lot of freeway travelling.

grasspress

i just returned from canada where the echo hatchback is available. european small cars are sophisticated and as roomy as most american market mid-sized vehicles. it's a shame these cars are not available for american drivers. perhaps if the honda fit arrives in a not-too-diluted final format, it will inspire other manufacturers to market good small cars here, also. let's hope so!

jchan2

also the BMW 1-Series compact sedan which will be launched in Europe this fall is not coming to the US for a while, which may disappoint you.

glycinemax

Looks like calender year 2006 for the Fit/Jazz.

http://money.cnn.com/2004/07/15/news/international/honda.reut/ind- ex.htm

..and from the Honda Mid-term Plan Press release from 15JUL04 ..."Strengthen Honda’s competitive advantage in the passenger car category with an all-new Acura RL (fall 2004) and a new entry-level Honda model (2006)."

dewey

It is official in Canada. Honda will introduce the Fit as an 06 model. I guess this does not increase the likelihood that it will be intro to the U.S.

We Canadians tend to prefer smaller cars. Unlike the U.S., Civics are better sellers than Accords and Echoes/Corollas are better seller than Camrys.

I guess this has more to do with our purchasing power up north. ( We earn about 20% less than you folks down south -if you adjust for foreign exchange rates)

strager

It sounds like Honda will wait until it launches the next generation Fit in 2006, rather than MY 2006.

It's also possible that since the Scion xA hasn't been that popular, Honda might just forget about the Fit for the U.S. and instead launch a Nissan Cube or Scion xB like vehicle, maybe the next generation HR-V?

Either way, I'm not holding my breath. Honda is getting to be really S-L-O-W.

rowboat

I drove a Jazz in Sydney for several months last year and I'm dying to get one in the US. I tried every angle to import and the best option was 2X the price of the car!!

Meanwhile, my fifth in a series of Civic Hatchbacks was flooded in a hightide storm last Christmas and totalled. I still drive it tolerating the squeeks waiting patiently for the Fit to arrive!! After 25 yrs of Civics that now appear as if on steriods, the Jazz/Fit will be a welcome return to what caused me to fall in Honda in the first place...practical transport.

It is torture working in Sydney each month watching the Jazz dart about!

xcel

Hi All:

___I too am awaiting the Fit to arrive … The problems I see is that Honda is placing a lower final and fifth gear in them (Euro and Asia) then the HCH. 4.111 Final and .805 Fifth in the Fit/Jazz. 3.600 Final and .710 Fifth of the IMA based Civic Hybrid. Why would they do this given the Fit/Jazz is ~ 300 - 400 #’s lighter depending on trim level with the same 1,339 iDSI ICE as that of the HCH? IMA won’t help on the highway and the ~ 13 HP of electric’s are just enough to help the HCH produce just slower acceleration results in comparison to the Fit/Jazz. Broken record time again …

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes

mebman

What kind of mileage did you get on the Jazz? Was it the 5 speed or the cvt?

marcb

I can't get over the thought of how efficient a diesel engine would be in a tiny Jazz. If an Accord can get 76.6 MPG on a 2.2 litre diesel, how much more could a Jazz on a smaller one.

Oh, please, please, please... honda, put a diesel engine in your upcoming Jazz here in Canada.

I promise I'll trade in my 01 Toyota Prius for a 76.6+ MPG diesel Jazz.

jchan2

Does Honda have an existing car overseas that would be more like the xB? I think the closest one is the Fit/Jazz, which is closer to the xA anyways. I still hope and think Honda will bring the Fit/Jazz here, but I'm not sure.

georget

Yep, it's called the Mobilio. Here is a link with a picture

http://www.globalcar.com/datasheet/Honda/2001HondaMobilio.htm

makabe

Actually, the Mobilio is a 7-seater with a sliding rear door. The Honda That's is probably a closer equivelent to the Xb, though it is smaller. Here's the link:

http://www.globalcar.com/datasheet/Honda/2002HondaThats.htm

I think the Jazz has as much if not more usable cargo space than the Xb, and the gas mileage puts the Xb to shame. Now if Honda would just bring over the Jazz with a diesel--can you say 80 MPG?

jchan2

Put a Hybrid in the Jazz. Maybe 85 MPG?

makabe

I'm actually much more in favor of diesel technology over hybrid. I'm worried that hybrids will require quite expensive battery and electronics replacement down the road. I'm really attracted to the idea of using biodiesel fuel in a diesel powered honda. I can dream, can't I? Also, the mileage of hybrids seems to be severely overstated by the EPA, while the stated diesel mileage figures are realistic. Lastly, hybrid technology is simply too expensive up front. I just can't see honda putting a hybrid in a $12K Jazz and trying to sell it for $18K to 20K.

C'mon Honda, bring on the Jazz!

georget

I agree. Hybrids are great if you live in the city where there is lots of stop and go driving. The hybrid will actually shut off if you idle for longer than a pre determined period, however their gas mileage is not much better than a standard "gas only" model when driving highway miles.

I would love to see that super efficient Honda diesel in the Fit! If every American household replaced one of their gas guzzlers that get 15mpg with a Honda Fit that gets 60+mpg, our country would be a lot closer to energy independence. If I were elected president, I would offer a $4000. rebate to anyone who purchased a $12k Fit : )
 
 
Cleaner diesel (low sulfur) will be mandatory in the U.S. soon, How does the biodiesel work? Does the car need to be modified?

makabe

In many cases, diesel cars do not need any modification to accept biodiesel 100 (100% biodiesel). In cold areas in winter however, the biodiesel needs to be mixed with 50 to 80% petroleum diesel to keep from freezing. In some cases, some fuel hoses need to be changed to accomodate biodiesel. One other concern seems to be the growth of black mold in engine parts, which is addressed by the use of fungicides. Go to http://www.biodiesel.com/why_biodiesel.htm for more info on biodiesel and its applications.

georget

Very informative link. Even if there are a few minor problems with biodiesel, it is well worth the effort. I would rather see our farmers get a higher price for their crops, than see the rich Saudi Oil Cartel have so much control over the world's destiny.

It would be great if Honda offered the Fit in both gas and diesel versions. The Japanese car companies are once again in tune with what we need, and what we will soon desire, while the American car companies are asking "that thing got a Hemi?"

Kirstie_H

We actually have a couple of discussions about biodiesel if you're interested in finding out more. Here they are:
OK, I'm switching to Biodiesel!
Biodiesel Vehicles

kirstie_h
Roving Host & Future Vehicles Host