Honda Fit

odman

I stumbled on to this link to Honda's UK Press site (click on Press Packs at the top). There's lots of good info on the Jazz as well as other models in it.

http://www.hondauk-media.co.uk/hondauk/car_index.html

odman

This Australian website had a good review of the Jazz Gli with a 1.3 litre engine (the European models seem to have 1.4 litre engines).

They were quite enthusiastic about it, liking the economy, packaging and value for the money. They thought it was underpowered (the 1.4 might be better) and that the firm suspension was unsettling on rough roads. They also didn't like the steering too much.

According to a currency converter, AUS$18,900 = US$11,320. This would undercut the Scion prices that were just announced.

All of this makes me wish we had it here too.

http://www.autoweb.com.au/cms/A_6083/article.html

marcb

The article mentions the Jazz is rated 4.9L/6.0L per 100km (That's 48/39.2mpg for you americans), tho the reviewer continues they get 5-10% worse in actual driving.

Factoring in a 7.5% means Jazz drivers should get around 45/36mpg. Pretty impressive for a pure gas burner.

In comparison, I'm getting 5l/100km (47mpg) mixed city/hwy driving with my Toy Prius. The best I ever got is 4.3l/100km highway (54mpg), worse was 6.1/100km city (heaters on full blast).

Maybe with summer coming and me getting used to the weird hybrid driving, I could do better.
But last February when I had to settle for a 3 yr old Prius, I really wished the Jazz was available for testing.

orangelebaron

I saw a couple of Jazz' last week on Grand Cayman Island while on a Norwegian Sun Cruise.
The Jazz is very cool looking in person (or in automobile that is). Very attractive car that is very practical.

jchan2

Honda, please bring over the.......JAZZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!- !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!- !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

backy

wheelz4

There seems to be a lot of demand for it over at the (I know we're not supposed to mention it) Vtec forum......Toyota's beat them to the punch with both the Scions (US) and Echo hatch (Canada)
The Jazz would make a great entry level Honda.

raychuang00

My personal guess is that we will see the Honda Jazz arrive the fall of 2004 as a 2005 model, and will be sold in both four-door sedan and five-door hatchback versions.

The North American model will probably sport an all-new 1.5-liter I-4 i-VTEC motor rated at 108 bhp, and will have your choice of five-speed manual transmission or CVT automatic transmission. Also, the NA model will likely sport some suspension changes from the model currently sold and also better brakes, too; European testers have expressed concerns about the somewhat weak brakes and subpar suspension of the Jazz models sold in Europe.

hokuto

I bought a Fit here in Japan last November--my first Honda ever--and have been really happy with it. The versions marketed here are limited. At first, only the 1.3l with CVT was sold (2001-2002), then they finally added a 1.5l with 7-range auto transmission late in '02. We got the 1.3l, but since we also opted for 4WD, gas mileage is a bit lower than otherwise; even so, I can still squeeze 50+ mpg out of it on the highway. I'd like to see a manual shift like those on the European versions, but they're not even sold here in Japan. The CVT is economical, but in D range it takes quite a bit of time to "spool up" especially under load (like when starting from a traffic light on a hill). The firm suspension is fine for me, although the electric steering could be a bit more aggressive. Interior space is astounding for a "super mini", and it has handling on a par with a much sportier car. It'll be interesting to see whether Honda indeed markets it in U.S., since it'll have quite a bit of competition, but I'm entirely pleased with mine.

backy

Let's not forget that this is the first appearance of the Fit in the U.S. Car companies often add improvements (e.g. new trim lines and engine options) later in a car's life. Also, since the Fit design is already several years old, I think it is likely that Honda has decided to keep the price low on the Fit by minimizing engineering changes at this time. Maybe they Honda is waiting for the next redesign of the Fit to offer a high-mpg variant, once they know how well the car is accepted in the U.S. Since Honda has offered high-mpg cars before in the U.S., it is obvious they have the desire to do it and the means to do it, and they understand that there are people who will buy cars like that.

mike91326

Honda has indicated that they plan to bring diesel's to the U.S. in the next year or so. Does Honda plan to offer a diesel in the Fit? A diesel Fit would be a nice high mileage car but would it cut too much into HCH sales?

hungarian83

"3. ...the only transmission choice will be CVT automatic, the same as the 2006 Civic Hybrid."

...but predictable

"5. The battery pack will likely be located under the rear seats, which means no "Tall" mode for the seats in the back."
If the battery pack is under the rear seats, that also means that Utility and Long mode are out of the question, since the entire rear seat unit sinks down into the space of the rear foot well. Only Refresh mode would remain and 3/4 of the "magic" would be gone.

marcb

...and Honda better rush to bring it here. Toyota is already planning to have a hybrid Matrix by 2003. I would much prefer a Fit due to it's interior flexibility and roominess. But I would most probably end up with the hybrid Matrix if there are no other choices next year.

odman

Thanks for the excellent post and picture. Most people I've spoken to here about CVTs aren't very happy with them. Until the engineers program them to "feel" more like automatics, I don't think they will be accepted here.

I would guess that a 5-speed manual and an automatic of some nature (the 7-speed sounds interesting) would be offered in North America with the 1.5 engine. The Fit/Jazz would give Honda something to compete against Scion/Echo hatch, as well as the Korean cars, including the new Chevrolet Aveo (Daewoo Kalos).

wheelz4

Even with 4WD and an auto (albeit CVT), you can still get 50+ mpg on the highway! That's awesome.
What a great commuter/2nd family car/student's 1st car/frugal empty-nester's car this would make.
Honda, I hope you're listening.

raychuang00

I think there is good reason why Honda wants to bring over the Jazz to the North American market--they don't want to concede the market to the Toyota Echo (Yaris) and the various Korean small cars.

It'll probably be fitted with a 1.5-liter i-VTEC engine rated at 105-108 bhp and five-speed manual or CVT automatic (one other possibility is a seven-speed automatic based on the Antonov transmission design).

odman

Sadly, the current Fit/Jazz won't be coming according to Automotive News. It gets redesigned in 2006/07, and if Honda decides to launch a new youth division to compete with Scion. If not, it seems less likely that we will see the next generation Fit.

wheelz4

It appears the Honda Jazz/Fit is coming to the USA (and I hope Canada too) afterall.
The "Temple" site, Automotive News and Car Connection all have news about it. No official confirmation from American Honda but it sounds like it's a done deal. Let's just hope they bring us the 5 door variant and not the ugly, Echo-like sedan spinoff. The five-door has style, personality and is incredibly practical with a way-cool folding rear seat. I would buy it over an Echo hatch, a Scion or anything Korean in a heartbeat. Hopefully, more news to come....

odman

There is a strong buzz about the Fit/Jazz -- it seems like everyone is interested in it. I can't imagine them not bringing the hatch over. It would certainly give Scion and the Echo hatch a run for their money, especially if they can keep it at the $10k mark that is being reported. They should aim to occupy the sporty end of the hatch spectrum and leave the discount strippers for the Koreans.

Here's a review from an Australian car site:
http://www.autoweb.com.au/cms/A_6083/article.html

fdanna

As far as quality goes, I'd say it's a toss up between honda and toyota... but 40mph is much better than the Scion. I'd take a serious look at this car if/when it comes.

I hope they don't limit options like Scion. I'd really like to be able to get cruise control and a sunroof.

kcirred

a 4 door hatchback from honda. This car is perfect for Canada. I can't imagain it making to the US but not Canada. Just make it cheap and reliable like the old civic hatchbacks and I'll probably get one (if the rumors are true).

jeff186

The Fit sounds great, IF it comes with an automatic or CVT tranny. Hopefully it will.

odman

Well according to a spotter in Timmins, they are doing cold weather testing of the Fit up there.

Also, Honda has trademarked the 'Fit' name but I don't know about 'Jazz'.
http://www.iht.com/articles/127151.html

odman

US$10k would translate as about CDN$12,750-$13,500 depending on currency rates and how much below exchange rates Honda decides to peg it. The cheapest Civic has an MSRP of CDN$16k, so a gap of C$4k makes sense and would bring it into the ECHO HB range.

odman

There is some great info and pics (the one outside the GAP shop could work very well here) of the Jazz at the Honda UK site:
http://www.hondauk-media.co.uk/hondauk/carpacks.htm

Here's the UK consumer site:
http://www.honda.co.uk/cars/newcars/modelHome.jsp?yearId=&mod- elId=10408&bodyId=&bodyDescription=&engineId=&bad- geId=&transmissionId=&colourId=&colourAllocationId=&a- mp;wheelPartNo=

wheelz4

I agree, this car would be a great "fit" for Canada (although personally, I prefer the "Jazz" name. With many "Canada exclusive" models now appearing, I would've thought Honda would've announced it for Canada first. No matter, as long as we get it. It will be at or near the top of our list for a 2nd car. Cold-weather testing in Timmins does sound promising!

wheelz4

please give us the Jazz/Fit 5 DOOR, not the ugly 4 door sedan version. As you have all but abandoned the hatch market here (with the exception of the overpriced, under-tired, underpowered SiR, you NEED a hatch in your lineup.
Especially with all the Matrixes, Aveo/Swifts, Echo hatches,Aerios, Scions, Focus Hatchbacks, P5's, Mazda3's etc. etc. etc. being sold.

odman

The Fit sedan is called the Fit Aria in some markets. Here's what it looks like: http://www.honda.co.nz/h.nsf/w/NT0001278A?opendocument

Just like the Echo, Aveo and Aerio, the 5-door looks much better than the 4-door. Tall proportions, which are the key to success in this segment, look ungainly on 3-box vehicle designs.

Hatches are cool, sedans are boring/ugly. Having both bodystyles may do more harm than having just the hatch: Honda is worried about losing young buyers to the more affordable Koreans, and young buyers won't want a car that is associated with a dorky derivative.

wheelz4

We have an Aerio SX hatch at the moment, and while it's styling is somewhat of an aquired taste, it looks 100x better than the Aerio sedan.
Sedan-wise, I think Suzuki should just sell the Forenza (a re-badged Daewoo they sell in the US) and drop the Aerio sedan completely.
Although Honda (officially) seems to be denying the rumours re: the Jazz/Fit, the fact that they have applied for US patents under the Fit name and the fact that it's been spotted cold-weather testing in Timmins, ON makes their denials ring pretty hollow.

odman

A woman in my office just bought a bright yellow Aerio SX with AWD and loves it. She hated the sedan. Similarly, when another woman in my office needed an affordable, economical car I recommended the new Echo hatch. She was aghast because the Echo meant a dowdy sedan to her. When I showed her the hatch, she fell in love with it and has just bought one this weekend.

The same thing could happen with the Fit if they brought the sedan ahead of or instead of the hatch. However, I don't think Honda would be that shortsighted. The car companies are worried that Gen Y have the same negative perceptions of hatches that their Boomer parents do, but most Gen Y like the greater practicality and sportier styling that goes with them.

BTW: This winter must be ideal for testing in Timmins!

raychuang00

I have this feeling that Honda could announce the North American-market Fit as early as the New York Auto Show coming in April 2004.

They'll have two body styles--a five-door hatchback and a four-door sedan. The engine will NOT be a derivative of i-DSI engine used on European-market Jazz models, but probably a 1.5-liter i-VTEC motor rated at around 105 bhp. The transmission choices will be either five-speed manual or a CVT automatic that can operate in manual mode with seven "ratios." Or it's even possible that the North American-model Fit could use the new Antonov-design seven-speed automatic in place of the CVT.

wheelz4

Mercedes' "Smart" cars are a "go" for the fall of 2004 in Canada. We already have the Echo hatch, Chevy Aveo/Pontiac??/Suzuki Swift+, Kia Rio, Hyundai Accent and maybe Mazda will see 'fit' to bring us the MX-Microsport, so if you want a piece of the action, Honda, now's the time.

dmundy1

I could not agree more with you Wheelz, I would get rid of my Civic sedan in a minute for a Fit/Jazz, much more versatile and better looking IMO. I think Mercedes will sell quite a few Smarts here in T.O., the diesel only uses 3.5l/100kms. Saw some pictures of that Mazda, and read in yesterday's National Post that a production version will debut in a major automotive market this year (Canada?). Things are really looking up for those of us who are sick and tired of SUV's.

odman

Along with Mazda, Nissan and Mistubishi are studying the low market here. Nissan showed the C-Note (a Renault Megane) in Montreal, and Mistubishi is seriously considering the tall-bodied Colt that is being launched in Europe. Here's a Colt link...
http://car.kak.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=news&file=- article&sid=1494

BTW: Pontiac Wave is a knock-off of the Aveo for Canadian Pontiac Dealers. We also get the Optra5, a 5-door hatch of the Chevrolet Optra sedan.

wheelz4

Mitsu Colt would be another great car to have (looks very close to the Jazz and way better than the Smart fourfour it shares it's platform with.)
Honda is even m.i.a. at the Toronto auto show, with nothing interesting save for their couple- years-old FCX hydrogen car.

borinda5

The Fit being sold in the US is good news for me. I was getting pretty close to giving up altogether on Honda ever selling another 50mpg 4 seat hatchback in the USA and was considering buying a 2004 Toyota Prius. My current ride, a 92 Civic CX hatch with 340,000 miles on it, averages 44mpg in the winter, 53mpg in the summer, and will give me 60mpg in summertime, rural, non-interstate driving, far better than the 30mpg highway mileage of the Civic Si hatchback. The Civic hybrid gets acceptable mileage, but its sedan body style doesn't have the room to carry the 2 Irish wolfhounds and 3 Australian shepards I often take on road trips with me.

odman

I agree -- Honda was a complete disappointment at the Toronto show. A lone Insight and one Civic Hybrid with not much signage was as far as they would go. I guess there's more dollars in Civics, Accords and CR-Vs.

chris777

If honda does in fact bring the fit/jazz here does anyone know how its interior specs compare with the scion xb (I know xa is probably more of a direct comparison, but I'm personally not impressed with it)

Since honda has given us all the shaft (at least in the US) on the 5 door civic hatch (or even 2 door auto)

the xb is currently looking extremely sweet, along with the mazda 3 to boot.
but I like the interior proportions of the xb better even though its about 6 inches too tall

but I would like to know how they compare I'm in the market for another car and I really like the xb, but if the fit isnt too far off I might could wait a few months , though I have the feeling It will end up being more than a few months, considering all the press the (dog) SUT is getting

strager

I had a chance to check out both in Japan, and it depends on your preferences. Both are good cars, but for me the xB's huge interior room was the hands down winner. The Fit is roomier than the xA, but the xB is in a different class for interior room. I haven't driven the Fit, but it's handling is probably better than the xB's (which is quite good).

I got tired of waiting to see what Honda would bring here and ended up getting the xB, it's one fun car!

strager

In today's WSJ there is an article about the slump in Civic sales, and Tom Elliott of Honda is quoted as saying that there will be a car less expensive than Civic that Honda will introduce next year.

I'm speculating this will be the Fit or a variation. Either way, Honda is becoming really s-l-o-w to respond to trends in the market. I'm glad I didn't wait and bought my xB.

wheelz4

Spotted in Toronto, there are pics of the Jazz/Fit over at the "Church of Honda"(if you know what I mean) site. Maybe Honda is finally coming to their senses after all.

5port

"Either way, Honda is becoming really s-l-o-w to respond to trends in the market."
-------------------------------------

   Agreed.

mariacherie

Does anyone know what the price range will be and what standard features might come on the Honda Hatchback and is there any word as to if it will drop early '05 or later in '05.

odman

As expected, Fit was a no-show in NYC.
What a wasted opportunity to build excitement.

wheelz4

Honda sales are down (with the exception of the Pilot and a few Acura models). I wouldn't consider a CR-V until they redesign that awkward side-opening rear door (maybe 3rd time around, they'll get it right); the Civic, as good as it is, is falling behind in the hp race and has no 5-door hatchback or wagon models to temp me; they have no entry-level model below the Civic to compete with Scion/Echo hatch etc.; and no multi-passenger small crossover either. The fact that a Fit/Jazz was spotted in Toronto gives us some hope, but until they address their "gaps" in the marketplace, they will continue to lose customers like me.

brad3

i read on the internet that north america was going to get the fit. it also said that only 50,000 were coming over here. has anyone read or heard this aswell? if you have heard this, when is the fit going to be here? thanks, brad

wheelz4

...the Jazz/Fit would already be here. Haven't seen Honda sales for April in Canada but Toyota set another record, helped by a 46% increase in Echo hatchback/sedan sales. Honda seems to be getting hit from both sides, with the Mazda3 being the best selling car in Canada since January + all those lost (below Civic) sales to Toyota (Echo sedan & hatch), not to mention Chevy Aveo/Suzuki Swift+ etc. The Civic Si sedan was just reviewd in our papers and the reviewer came away underwhelmed. At 127 hp, it's the most powerful Civic 4 door you can buy here, but nearly all it's competition has more, and some a lot more. I'd be willing to bet sales of the Civic-based Acura EL (also with 127 hp) are also way down, now that you can get a 160hp Mazda3 GT with leather and all the goodies for less $$$.

wheelz4

...according to Autoweek, though Honda still won't confirm exactly what entry level model we're supposed to be getting. Says mid to late 2005...

raychuang00

The reason is simple: there has been a resurgence in the popularity of hatchbacks. Note that Ford has been selling a lot of Focus ZX3 and ZX5 hatchbacks, and Mazda has enjoyed good sales of the new Mazda3 five-door hatchback.

However, I have this feeling that the Honda Fit we will probably see introduced at the next Detroit International Auto Show in January 2005 will NOT be derived from the current Fit/Jazz model sold in Japan and Europe. It'll probably be an all-new model, with a slightly longer wheelbase to accommodate American-sized passengers and probably a new i-VTEC 1.5-liter I-5 engine rated at around 108-112 bhp specifically developed for the North American market. Transmission choices will either be a five-speed manual or a CVT automatic.

nippononly

that's a very specific prediction! :-)

Did you see something somewhere, or is that truly speculation?

If they make the Fit too big or "high powered", it will clash with Civic...of course, the Civic WILL be renewed about the time the Fit hits the market, so maybe it will get bigger and more powerful.