Nissan Frontier Crew Cab vs Ford Explorer Sport Trac - II

gooba

Well said.What is it you are in the market for?If I can assume that you are here because you may have narowed your selection to these 2 vehicles,then you are in the right place.What is it you would like to know?

dennisc2

I haven't seen the truck trend article comparing the Nissan and Ford ,( anyone have the URL to read this ?) but knowing the Ford will set you back $4,000++ Vs. the Nissan, one would hope it would have redeeming qualities over the CC. At the same time, most of these car magazines are of the mentality that "more power, must mean better", and take no consideration of reliability and value. I would think it is just a matter of time before Consumer Reports compares these new 4 door breeds. They are objective, unlike the Motor Trends of the world (whom obviously pull in a lot more advertising revenue from Ford than Nissan) and will factor in value and quality into the quotient. I guarantee that Nissan will will receive the "Recommended" rating once Consumer Reports starts getting reliability data coming in from "actual" owners of these autos.

godawgs2000

Wow, just a simple request and out comes some intelligent dialogue. I currently have a 95 pathfinder just about to roll over 100k. I have had very few problems and have always highly recommended them to family/friends in the market. I would probably keep for at least another 100k but I keep finding the need to haul stuff that doesnt fit because of height or makes too much of a mess; (pinestraw/mulch for the wife, small furniture that I dont want to pay somebody 50 bucks to deliver, etc.). I have only had an opportunity to sit in the C.C. and the S.T. only one time each. My initial reaction was that the S.T. seemed to have a good bit more rear seating area, which is important because I'm tired of my kids booting me in the back all the time. Also, I am 6'4" and the driver's seat in the S.T. also seemed a little more comfortable (it was leather, the C.C. was not and I currently have leather so that may have been psychological). As far as reliablity goes, I am a big fan of Consumer Reports because they don't take ads and have steered me right with many products in the past. For the last few years, including the 2000 cars issue, they have given the 4 door explorer the "recommended" seal, even though it rates average as far as reliability and resale. Again, I have first hand experience with Nissan and have been happy with the 2 pathfinders I have owned (1st one was stolen and promptly replaced with a 2 year newer model). Overall, I like the looks of both vehicles and will make a decision between the two. Price is not that big of an issue just because they both fall under my "I'm not spending more than 25000 for a new car this time" statement I made to my wife awhile back. Anyway, all opinions are welcome and appreciated, hope everybody has a safe and happy 4th.

gooba

I have a 2000 CC and I am well pleased with it.After reading your previous post,I do not think the CC will make you happy.The room in the rear seat is smaller then the Ford.It is not a factor for my family because we are on the short side.I am the tallest and I am 5'7".It sounds like the Ford St or the Dodge Quadcab would work better for you especially if the rear seat is a concern.I believe that the price for either vehicle might push real close to your price.

godawgs2000

I appreciate the feedback, and I'm glad you found the right truck for your needs. I am probably leaning more toward the S.T.. I did drive the Dodge and the rear seat was comparable to the best of my recollection, and I did think it was a good looking truck. However, Dodge quality has not been very good according to anything I've read or heard from individuals I know who own them. Thanks again for your input.

mahimahi

I have a 2000 C.C. SE 4x4. I've had this truck since March 6th and have 10,410 miles on it. I've had 3 oil changes and have rotated the tires twice. I'm in it every single day so I know this truck pretty well. I go through two tanks of gas a week. Most of my driving speed is between 60-70mph and I average 17.5mpg with the a/c on all the time. I drive around town about 90% of the week and the other 10% is mostly towing boats for demo rides or getting lawn supplies(when I'm not fishing). In the winter I'll be hunting and doing offroad. Some things you should know that I have nit-picked about the C.C. in order of importance to me(BTW, I'd be able to find something wrong with any vehicle I owned): non-folding rear seat, the gas nozzle will rub the fender flare(this isn't a problem really with the XE because the flares aren't painted, small glove box and the view of my wind deflector through the sunroof. Please don't get me wrong, I absolutely love this truck. I like the 'truck' look, the 'truck' ride and the 'truck' hieght. Even though this isn't the most powerful truck engine on the market it certainly isn't the weakest. I do drive in Pinellas and Hillsbourgh counties and have no problems at all passing, pulling out or manuvering in congestion(which I worried about going from an Acura Ledgend).Even though I've stated this before, it might be important, my mother owns a '99 Pathfinder XE 2wd and it has the same 3.3L. To me, her motor feels more responsive and maybe quicker(I don't know though I've never raced her), so I suggest that you definately compare it to your Pathfinder. To me the S/T rides alot nicer, smoother. Plus it has alot of neat features too! The big thing here is you've got guys here that own 2000 C.C.'s and guys who own 2001 S/T's. My understanding is the features are to increase w/the 2001 C.C. Like folding rear seat, more power and leather seats as an option(first for Nissan in their p/u). Although I don't own a sport-trac, I do have alot of driving experience with a Nissan C.C. if you have any specific questions I'll be happy to answer them objectively.

jeff555

I also have a Nissan CC and would have to agree with Gooba, that if interior space is important to you, then the ST may be a better choice than the CC. The ST is about a foot longer than the CC and I think most of that must have been added to interior space. If you often carry anything other than small children in the back seat, you may not be happy with the CC.

As for the Dodge, it is about a foot longer than the ST, and most of that must have been added to the bed. The interior space seems to me to be about the same as the ST, and I don't know what use the extra foot of bed length would be. There is very little that extra foot of bed space would let you carry, that couldn't be carried with the ST or CC.

keanec

I too own a 2000 CC 4x4 SE. I have about 10000km on it. My daughter sits in a booster seat behind me and she does kick the back of the seat quite a bit. She is 3 1/2. If this is what you are looking for, I am not sure if even the ST will stop this. Hopefully fordsporttrac can give you his thoughts. When I tried the ST, with the seat all the way back, there was only a bit more room than in the CC in the back seat...The kids will still be able to kick. In an earlier post, I gave my reasons for buying the CC; I don't want to repeat and bore the rest...just scroll up 20 posts or so and you should see it.

Good Luck on your purchase!! Let us know what you finally decide.

croy2

After 30 or more days of Vince proving that he is an ignorant consumer....

Vince's access to this topic is being "frozen". Vince will be archived or deleted in the next 10 days or so. Happy 4th everyone, and enjoy your CC or ST!

mahimahi

That's funny and happy fourth to you!

scape2

Why is it my posts, links, articles, reviews that support Ford products and the Sport Trac are called ignorant, yet the Nissan folks who post, link, show reviews or articles are called smart? I don't think Edmunds is going to "freeze" me. I have even quoted their data to show you that Ford products aren't the junk you Nissan folks say it is. Nice try though.

cncman

Actually Vince, he didn't call your posts ignorant, just you,
happy 4th everyone.

gooba

Why is it my posts, links, articles, reviews that
support Ford products and the Sport Trac are
called ignorant, yet the Nissan folks who post,
link, show reviews or articles are called smart?

Maybe it is because it is the SAME ARTICLES,REVIEWS,POSTS.You have not said anything new,nor showed anything NEW.It is a rehash of the SOS over and over and over again.

At first glance,I could be really happy knowing you got 86'd off this message board.After some thought I vehemtly disagree with that.I do not think it should happen.Even though what everyone has said about your posts and you personally,you are still entitled to voice your opinion here,however ignorant,or biased it may be.It is up to us on the board to decide how to handle your posts,not someone else,and certainly not by getting rid of you.

mahimahi

I agree with you guys Vince8 has as much of a right to this topic as the rest of us. Don't misunderstand my earlier post, I just thought it was funny. Vince read the rest of this post you might be interested in the following info.
Hey,
This weekend I got the new issue of 'Trailer Boats'. It has an article on the Ford SuperCrew vs. the Sport Trac. Pretty interesting article, it's on how well each of them tow with their respective towing capacities. Plus the article has the ever 'elusive' torque curve for the 4.0L. If any of you guys are interested I can scan it and post it on driveway for you. BTW, did anybody check out the last article, did it work?

Oh and for the record, I'm not referring to this article to support any point. Just thought I would share it with anybody interested in the Sport Trac and it's towing. This is from a magazine that most people probably consider looking at when researching a truck purchase. I have found that these types of magazines are more informative because they test a truck under conditions other than controlled 'test track'. Just let me know and I'll pull down the Nissan Xterra article.

fordsporttrac

I got the articles last time but had to convert them before I could read them. A Jpeg or Gif would be easier to read I think.

I would be interested it reading it.

Took a long trip in the ST this weekend. Went up some nasty (For the East that is) hwy mountains. Kept the Cruise on 74 MPH. Only down shifted out of OD once the whole trip. Held 74 MPH with no problems. 80 MPH was 2900 RPMs. Did the whole trip on one tank of Gas. The 4Runner use to take 1 1/3 Tanks. So I figure I'm getting a bit better MPG than my old 3.0L 4Runner.

Drove up/down one Looooong (1+ Mile) steep (30+ degree) dirt road. I did notice that when I got going 30 - 35 MPH the [non-permissible content removed] end started to bounce a bit. No trailer or weight in the back. It NEVER went into OD. I think the road was a bit scalloped which got the bouncing going. I flipped in 4WD and gunned it around a turn. It held the line amazingly well, with the [non-permissible content removed] following the direction of the front wheels (Not the Road):-). That took a bit of getting use too. I think it was the limited slip rear. I still haven't gotten comfortable with pushing the ST to its limit. I need a snow storm and a parking lot. :-)

fordsporttrac

Rear Seat is 12" high in the Front.

On the Drivers Side;
Rear Leg Room is 7" with Front Seat Full Back
Rear Leg Room is 18" with Seat Full Forward
Rear Leg Room is 11" with Seat in My position.
I'm 5' 11".

The Front Seat travels a Full 12"

I have the Leather Package which includes electric drivers seat.

My daughter still sits in a rear facing seat. :-)
The Passenger seat has more travel.

fordsporttrac

If I took the recline out of the front seat the leg room would be about 1" more on all measurements.

fordsporttrac

I just found out on the ST board that the robot painters missed the bottom of the drivers door. So I ran out to check and YUP they missed a 2" wide 2' long patch with the color. They got it with the primer but not the color.

mahimahi

I'll try to put in jpg so it will be easier. I should be able to put it on later after I get home from work. Definately read the part about o/d and their experiences. Pretty good article there's also some good questions and answers in the back of the mag that I can post for you too, but since I only get 20 mb free I'll wait until you d/l the article. Also let me know when you guys download it because posting it in color takes up so much space I have to do it in b/w. The torque curve has to be done in color though because they have both the 5.4L and the 4.0L on the same graph. I can post it by itself after you d/l the b/w article.

I was towing my demo this weekend and noticed something funny. I didn't have any gear on the boat this time(just pulling it to my house to clean it) other than a full tank of fuel(75 gals.). While driving at 55mph the engine was turning 3000 rpm's with the o/d off. This is all on a completely flat road, turned on the o/d and the engine revs to 3500 rpms. That's right it actually increased the rpm's! I couldn't believe it so I did it four more times, everytime the same result.

How the hell does the robot miss 2" of body surface, DAMN! At least it's the bottom of the door, in case the paint that the dealer puts on doesn't match exactly - you'll never be able to tell. They need to fire the Q/A guy! That's rediculus!

fordsporttrac

Actually it works out to be more like 24 sq Inches of paint. :-) Not on the body though. You have to look directly up from the bottom of the driver door to see it. But Yea they'll hang some QC guy if they didn't know about it.

keanec

7" of leg room with the seat full back doesn't seem like a lot. Where do you measure this? I will try and measure mine to find out what it is because I drive with the seat all the way back and the seat a little less reclined. I'd hazard a guess and say if I measured level from the back seat to the front seat back it would be close to 6-7". I will check for sure.

As to your ride up & down the 30% grade, do you get the back end hopping like that on flat washboard type roads? I routinly go 50mph on these type of roads and I don't seem to get any hopping. I wonder if the weight distribution on the ST is forward because of the composite panel? Just a thought; it could explain why you got the hop. Putting it into 4 wheel drive would make the ST's back end track better around corners because the front wheels are now pulling. That is one of the advantages of 4wd, it can compensate for a light rear end.

Mahimahi - Before you post, why don't you give us the lowdown on what the torque curve looks like. Is it flat like the CC or what?

The fact the RPM went higher when it was in O/D doesn't look good to me. I might suggest your tranny electronics are out of wack; maybe? I don't really have any other thought; mine has never done that.

keanec

Does any other CC owners out there expereince the following: When you turn a corner a slow speeds (normal turning on to a side street say.) and you hit a bump while turning, I get a clunk that feels like it is coming from somewhere under the front end. I haven't asked the dealer about it; I am just curious if it is normal. The only other time I have felt this in other vehicles was when I was in 4 wheel drive.

Another observation: it seems my suspension is loosing up; maybe a little to much. It might just be my imagination (the roads are much worse this year than prior years because of the frost)but I think I will have my dealer check the shocks. I was getting a little bit of bounce when I was pulling my trailer on Monday. I will post when I find out.

fordsporttrac

The 7" of leg room is from the front seat, "seat back", to the closest leading edge of the rear seat. I did this level to the height of the rear seat. This allowed for the front seat recline. If I took out the recline add another 1+ inches. If I measured to the bottom of the front seat add 3+ more inches.

But at 5' 11" I can not touch the brake peddle when the front seat is all the way back. I'll go back out and measure from the leading edge of the front seat to the brake peddle when the front seat is all the way to the rear.

No hopping on anything but the 30% grade dirt road so far and I'm pretty sure it was because of the steep grade, firm suspension and light [non-permissible content removed] end of the ST coupled with the scalloped road. And I may have been having too much fun. LOL

cncman

keanec;
that happened too to my frontier, scared the hell out of me, I was backing up out of a driveway with the wheel cranked all of the way and there was a steep drop off on the end of the drive, basically what it is if you have the wheel locked in a turn there are nylon steering stops to prevent the steering form going too far, if there is suspension travel while it is locked, then the nylon rubs together, no harm just noisy once in awhile, next time you are in for service have them grease the stops, did that to mine and no more noises. Don't know about the suspension mine feels the same with 25,000 miles as it did brand new.

godawgs2000

Well, I made a quick decision today, thankfully I have had some time to research and also pull info of a few rooms like this one. Only time will tell, but I currently feel good about my choice. The 94' Pathfinder decided to eat its own transmission yesterday and left me no choice but to buy a car today.....A nice new loaded up ST (4x2, no roof). So far my daughter has not kicked my seat, but I think its only because she is so enthralled by the open window behind her head. With the kiddie seat in there is about the same amount of room as I have in the Pathfinder.
And, speaking of Nissan...keanac, cncman is 100% correct, not to worry. The steering stops get really noisy in a full tight turn over even the smallest bump. They can be lubricated if it gets really bad and makes everybody look at you like you just busted an axel. Ive been dealing with that for 6 years. I'll post an update after a bit of driving (unbiased opinions, I promise). CYA.

keanec

I measured the rear leg room last night. Where I sit, it is 7". I did find out that I don't sit all the way back. When the seat is all the way back, it is 5 1/2".

keanec

Congrads! I owned a '93 Pathfinder XE 4x4 for 6 years. It was a great vehicle; my wife still wishes I had kept it! She is happier now that I sold my CRV & bought the CC; with my cap on it looks like a longer pathfinder of old.

I am going to get those stops greased. I don't think I turn all the way, but it is only happening when a hit a bump while I am steering so that makes sense.

Mahimahi - My wife tells me I am crazy, the suspension is fine! I don't know, I could just be picky.

Those RPM figures look pretty good for the ST. It should be able to haul pretty well - although I guess that goes back to the suspension for towing.

Traded both my tent trailer & older trailer for a newer travel trailer. I bought a 25' that ways about 3700lbs dry. I won't load it up with much more than 500-800lbs so I should do pretty well. I pick it up next week. I kept the sway bars from my old trailer so I should have no trouble.

By the way - where do I go to look for your post?

mahimahi

sorry, I guess I left that out. www.driveway.com

scape2

ST reaches 205ft/lbs of torque at 1500rpms! I noticed none of you CC owners wished to comment??
I know I'm not going anywhere. If Edmunds trys to delete me, can you say lawsuit? I give information either from magazines, reviews or other internet links. I throw in my personal opinion once in a while, but so do all of you! It just seems the Nissan crew doesn't like to hear bad news....

fordsporttrac

My old 4Runner had the same stops and it made a hell of a noise when you hit a bump while in a full turn. The stops were just little plastic caps on my 4Runner, but the noise started after they wore through. The Toyota dealer replaced them for free in about 60 seconds. If you find they are worn you may have to get new ones. Grease will keep them from wearing if there not already.

fordsporttrac

With the ST seat all the way back its 21 & 1/2" from the leading edge of the seat to the brake peddle.

Keanac, your seat is 5 & 1/2 Full back while the ST is 7". And you are 7" in your position while I am 11" in mine. What is the height of the CC's rear seat. The ST is 12".

fordsporttrac

Things you need to know about your ST.

1. The bottoms of the Doors may not be painted.

2. Your Sun Roof drip tube may disconnect.

3. Your Fuel door may hit the body when opened.

4. Your power steering may shudder turning at low speed.

5. Your entitled to buy the Tonneau cover at sticker price (Not parts Counter Price) until
September. Savings of $500+

6. If you join the Ford Outfitters Club they should send you a Gift. (Travel Chairs, Knife Catalog.)

mahimahi

I think the new 4.0L is an impressive powerplant. I never nor any other Nissan 'crew' for that matter ever said otherwise, Vince. I would respect your posts alot more of you if you did use YOUR opinions and experiences and not derogatory comments made to us just because we own Nissans. I'm not overly sensative by any means, I just think it puts everybody in a 'defensive' mode. When the topic is in 'defensive' mode then everything that is said is stated in defense. When it's like this, people that come on here trying to learn more about these vehicles and what we all think about the ones that we own and how we use them, don't really get any real info. Instead what they see is a defensive battle.

But again, you must understand I never said that Ford makes bad product. How could I possibly make that call...I never have owned one! Sure my parents both have owned some, my younger brother had a fully restored/modified '69 Bronco, I've had roommates that have owned rangers but, I could only speak of their experiences. Which wouldn't make me a good source, right? Even though, I had in the past(right out of high school) I worked at one of the area's biggest Ford dealers as a detailer. I saw all of the ends and out of their product- but I'm still not as knowledgeable as an owner. That's why I've never said Ford's products are lousy. But you on the other hand, have owned only Ford and your saying that the Nissan is junk that's why they don't sell as many as the domestics, why Renault is partners with them and numerous other reasons but, nothing concrete though right? But I asked you earlier and I will ask you again, why if Nissan is such junk does Ford use/buy the Nissan Quest for their(Ford) higher-end Mercury line?

keanec

Not sure what the hieght of the seat is..I will measure it when my wife lets me see MY CC.. I would hazard a guess and say it isn't that hi; probably 10" or so.

I will also check the distance to the brake pedal - does the ST have Ford's adjustable pedals?

keanec

Here we go again...I did mention that I thought the RPM curve looked pretty good...To refresh your memory, nobody said that it wouldn't be good, we just wanted to know what it was because it seemed to peak at a pretty high RPM according to Ford's literature. Mahimahi, not you, spent the time finding the info and wasn't scared to post it - even though both he & I own Nissans.

For the record Mahimahi says he has never owned a Ford, so he doesn't trash them, I have owned 3 Fords in my lifetime - '76 Grand Marquis (460ci), 1989 Taurus, 1990 Taurus and I have owned 5 Nissans. I do base some of my negative comments on particular Ford products that are known quality problems (Windstar for one). I have never trashed the ST/Explorer/F150, I have just said that from MY experience (and close friends/families) I think Nissan overall has better quality - by how much I am not willing to speculate).

You HAVE NEVER OWNED A NISSAN AND YOU ADMIT YOU HAD PLENTY OF PROBLEMS WITH YOUR CONTOUR, yet you still trash any Nissan owner and Nissan all the time with no reference to your/your close associates experiences with Nissans. That is the problem.

Also, I think the comment about barring you from Edmunds was just a holiday joke, you don't have to threaten to sue.

I think people who use this townhall want real life experiences by actual owners. Anybody can pick up any magazine and read the articles; we don't need you posting that stuff here because we don't want it - not because it isn't true.

So get a life and post YOUR experiences with your Ford or sit in front of your computer and fret!

wdoyle9752

I have a hard time believing Vince8 would spend the time and the money, to take edmunds to court for denying him access to a FREE service. But it made me laugh.

fordsporttrac

Nope ST does not have the adjustable peddles. Next years might :-(.

mahimahi

The article I posted said that the F-150 Crew Cab has the adjustable peddles. I would have thought that they would have put them in the S/T but, for sure next year huh?

How are you guys measuring the hieght of the rear seat? I'll measure mine too!

croy2

Vince,

Don't get your panties all in a bunch about the post on you being "barred". It was an f-in joke, but it appears you don't always read things real carefully before jumping to conclusions. I made this post to add some humor to an otherwise endless barage of B.S. that you spew. If anyone is going to get barred from Edmunds it will probably be me for posting this joke. But maybe being barred would be a blessing since I would'nt have to read your endless dribble.

keanec

Height of backseat from floor - 11.5in from the rug to the highest point on the seat bottom.

Length from brake pedal to front seat 20.5in

Give or take 1/2in on those meaurements

scape2

First, I thought this was a Nissan vs Ford room, not Toyota? Why are you bringing my other posts from other rooms into this discussion??
Second, Mah, your back tracking awfully quick here about Ford and its quality/reliaiblity. I have heard endless comments on how Fords are "junk", "don't run" "unreliable" and so on...
I have come up to the plate numerous time to show data that contradicts this view of all Fords being junk. Granted, I didn't post the HP/torque curve of the SOHC 4.0 in the ST. If I had found it I sure would have posted it, it obviously shows Ford does its homework. The 4.0 Torque/HP curve is better than the Nissan CC.
Why is it I am being constantly bashed because I like Ford products? have had great reliabitliy/quality with them? What I am showing is that the 3.3 is the weakest V6 in the small truck class, (OK the weakest top of the line V6) before you twist the point that I am trying to make.... And, Nissans ARE NOT any better than Fords....

keanec

Let me get this one for you Mahimahi:

Vince8 you wrote".. have had great reliabitliy/ quality with them? What I am showing is that the 3.3 is the weakest V6 in the small truck class, (OK the weakest top of the line V6)before you twist the point that I am trying to make.... And, Nissans ARE NOT any better Fords...."

#1 You have NOT had Great reliability with them - CONTOUR come to mind?

#2 You were NOT trying to show the Nissan v6 was the weakest - you said many times it was a joke and sucked as an engine!!! We did not agree with that point - even if we did agree it was the smallest offering in the Crew Cab field. The ST & the Dodge have bigger engines. We do not think the V6 is a joke - it is a very good reliable engine with plenty of power for our needs!!

As to it being the smallest engine in its class - you are comparing it to two vehicles which came out 10 months later; and are considered 2001 models. If you would like a suggestion (which you probably don't) compare the 2001 Nissan CC to the 2001 ST and 2001 Dodge. I think the 2001 CC will do very well even considering the Dodge is a much bigger truck (and I think the ST is too)

fordsporttrac

I disagree with the use of the model year CC2001 vs ST2001 comment. You shouldn't compare years.

The reason I say this is because by the time the 2001 CC comes out Ford may be delivering the new 2001.5 ST. Due out sometime in November I believe?

mahimahi

Thank you Keanec, very good points.

Vince,
How about the Quest logic? Are you embarrassed? Open mouth insert foot.Don't be a dumb-#ss! Where in any of my posts did I ever call Ford junk? huh? You still haven't answered many questions for the rest of us countering your so-called points. Not to rehash over sales vs. quality again but, keanec's post brought to mind something else. In those sales figures are they comparing model years or models sold within a certain period of time? I bet you don't know right? I mean if Ford puts out it's 2001 model in February(as with the F-150 C.C.) they will almost certainly be included with the rest of the 2001 F-150's for the 2001 model year. When it is added up and presented to the public against the rest of the market, like Chevy who hasn't put out their 2001s of any model it's not comparing the same thing. Same will be true of the S/T when they compare the figures against the other 4-doors. Again I'm shooting down the statement of yours that the high sales figures show higher quality. Don't misconstrue this as me saying that Ford's quality sucks because that's not what I was trying to point out. See the problem is with your posts is that you don't say it's your opinion (if you mean for it to be) but rather you state it(as a fact). But your references aren't supportive because they are too general or you don't research them to see how strong of a source it is. Rather you use it because it says what you were wanting to here. This is why we never get a conclusion from you. By the way did you read my post about how I said that I was posting the torque curve for in for only, I wasn't trying to prove anything with it? If you were referring to my first posts about towing, I never question the engine. My point was about the towing differences between a pickup and a SUV again not the engine! But since I've towed extensively with both types of vehicles and you haven't- you have no basis to your argument.

mahimahi

You beat me to it! I had too much to write.

mahimahi

Vince's source on sales numbers compare year models that's the problem. So your logic would follow what I'm saying right?

gooba

vince,you are absolutely right that this is a Nissan vs Ford room.What is also true is that you post not only in this room but in other rooms,so ANYTHING YOU SAY IN ANY OF THE OTHER FORUMS IS FAIR GAME.It is kinda funny that you are about as popular as crotch itch in ALL of the rooms.LOL as you like to say.I posted an excerpt that shows data that Ford is ranked 28th in customer satisfaction.The SAME type of absolute DATA and FACTS that you are so fond of.This shows a trend by Ford to cut costs by making the vehicles cheaper.First the bed on the ST,being composite,although only time will tell on how it holds up.If what I have seen on the Series1 Cobra is any indication,I hope there will be a repair kit out soon.The next big thing from Ford is the Plastic intake mainfolds.I have serious doubts on the wisdom of that.

It seems that Ford Motor Company has trouble hitting their mark when it
comes to their slogan "Quality is Job 1". The number of recalls per vehicle
and overall reliability ratings appear to be moving in the wrong direction.

Ford owners everywhere are reluctant to convey confidence and satisfaction when discussing their car with friends, family and coworkers as of late. In fact, out of 32 car manufacturers worldwide, Ford has dropped to 28th place for overall customer satisfaction. One customer for every 400 vehicles sold is involved in an unresolved claim, meaning either there is no known repair for a problem they are experiencing, or they have become so frustrated that they wish to have their car bought back.

Saturn, by comparison, has one unresolved claim for every 14,000 vehicles sold. Despite these facts, Ford continues to be one of the largest car
companies in the world. This can only mean that their engineers and product
designers are second to none. To put it plainly, Ford makes several very
appealing cars. Those responsible for the new and redesigned Fords that hit the showroom floors really have their finger on the pulse of the car buying public.....

Having indulged myself in responding,I have a question.You stated all of the things you showed and proved about Ford and Nissan,especially how Nissan was so bad in comparison.Let us say that at least in your mind that you proved your case,this changes what?It means what?What is your goal?

wdoyle9752

Gooba you better tell Vince8 where you got the data, otherwise he is going to call bs. I'm sure vince8 rates Ford #1 in customer satisfaction above EVERY single manufacturer in the world, because he has never had one bad exerience with his Fords or Ford Services except for his Contour.

fordsporttrac

Your Right.......
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Your message is long.

As far as your question about my logic following yours.... I'm not sure I follow the whole issue. To tell you the truth to comment on this I would have to re-read quite a few messages and I do not have the bandwidth for it.

I still do disagree with your one comment.

To me the "Norm" is higher sales often indicates higher quality, when comparing apples to apples.
Meaning Quality=Sales but Sales<</A>>Quality.

fordsporttrac

Gooba you said;
The next big thing from Ford is the Plastic intake mainfolds. I have serious doubts on the wisdom of that.


Sorry... I have first hand info on this. The next big thing from Siemens Automotive is Composite Intake AND Exhaust Manifolds (Not ford). Very cool products. Very light weight. Already used in several vehicles (Including Nissan I think) with great success. Because of the composite there is no need to polish the intake and exhaust ports. They come out as smooth as a metal one that has been tuned and polished.
That improves MPG and the lower weight improves MPG. And the composite is cheaper than metal.

Your point appears to be will it last as long as a metal one?

I can't answer that (the experts say yes) but I counter with do the current automobile bumpers last as long as their previous metal counter parts?