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Toyota 4Runner

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    kheintz1kheintz1 Member Posts: 213
    As I've said in previous posts, my dealer was quite willing to swap the Bridgestones that were on my Limited when I bought it, for a set of Michelin Cross Terrains from another new 4Runner on their lot. (This swap wasn't done until a week after I had the truck, and during that time I actually liked the Bridgestones-- very smooth and quiet ride. But, I'm partial to Michelin Cross Terrains, since I have prior experience with these tires and I know they are an excellent all-season SUV tire with great long-term wear characteristics and great overall performance. Indeed, they may currently be the best all-season SUV tire for the money). If your dealer agrees to a swap, do make sure the tires and rims are 17", and also make sure that the dealer transfers your tire warranty to the Michelins. And, when you detail your truck, consider using Zaino products, including their Tire Gloss.

    Also, I'm so glad to hear that you like the gold color. My truck is white, and I didn't much consider this color until I saw my truck in the dealer's showroom, and found it to be stunningly sharp. I get a lot of complements and head-turning with my truck, and I'm quite happy with how she looks.

    Congratulations on your new 4Runner Limited! Enjoy! And now, get thee some Zaino, fast, and detail that baby!
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    grubbs1grubbs1 Member Posts: 69
    Thanks Cliffy1. I was out of town and have not been able to read this board for several days.

    Regarding VSA's (extended warranties), with what plans have others opted? Prices paid?

    Also, is pulleydog correct in that you can purchase Toyota's VSA (at the same price) up to 36 months after purchase of the vehicle?

    On another note, did anyone opt to get an upgraded alarm? I did. I paid $399!! I think I got ripped. I have not had it installed yet and am considering trying to get my $ back. Any suggestions? I bought an 04 Sport. Thanks!
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    terrafirmaterrafirma Member Posts: 212
    300+481+575+575=$1931
    Doesn't sound like "invoice +300" to me. Sounds like you're paying closer to retail for the truck.

    That's almost $2,000 over not including tax+lic
    Go by Edumunds TMV to get the real price
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    amheckamheck Member Posts: 37
    Edmunds TMV for my truck is $35,100, and that doesn't include Toyoguard, which I can't select. If I was going by that, then I'd have to think I'm getting a great deal only paying $34,883 (the dealer's invoice price) for the truck.

    Anyone know the real invoice of the Toyoguard or the meaning of either of the $575 fees in my above msg? The dealer had some story about how they don't buy from Toyota directly here in the SE - they buy from Jim Moran and all of these are legitimate fees. Maybe now I know how it's so easy for internet salespeople at the dealers to offer these trucks at "invoice", cause their invoice is already making them money.

    Thing is, the way I want the truck configured, it's either this truck, or waiting again and/or maybe trying another dealer. Not like I can go down the street and get a similar truck. Since this dealer brought this truck in from another dealer, can I theoretically go to yet another dealer and see if they, too, would transfer the truck at a lower price?

    Thanks, Aaron
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    bcmalibu99lsbcmalibu99ls Member Posts: 625
    May not be a 4Runner only question, but unless 1) you leave your key in the ignition, 2) your key gets stolen, or 3) they tow your car away (very brazen), how on earth do thieves steal new cars these days? All new cars (4Runner for sure) would not start, unless you insert the correct key with the chip in it...

    And in light of the above, I do think Toyota is making a killing by selling "intrusion alarms" for what, 400 bucks US?
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    terrafirmaterrafirma Member Posts: 212
    amheck,
    If I'm understanding you correctly, you are saying the dealer invoice is $34,883
    +300
    +481
    +575
    +575

    So the total price is $36,814.
    Edmunds TMV is $35,100 for your area
    That means you are paying about $1700 over TMV.
    Your dealer's "invoice" means nothing if they are tacking on all these "required" fees.
     
    So it sounds like instead of saying "we will sell you the truck for $36,8" they are saying "we will sell it for $34 + "some fees".
    It sounds like the usual shell game.

    Toyoguard is a dealer item, not something that is "port installed". I'm not sure how you port install a wax job.
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    amheckamheck Member Posts: 37
    Terrafirma,

    Sorry, poor communication on my part. The $34,883 dealer invoice is all inclusive of the $481 Toyoguard, $575 SE Toyota Admin Fee and $575 Delivery, Processing and Handling Fee. So...my total purchase price would be the $34,883 plus the $300 dealer fee, which, now that I add this up, this almost matches the Edmunds TMV price to the penny. So its $35,100 plus TTL. Still, one could argue that I'm getting TMV and should be happy, but it's still significantly higher than the "invoice plus $300" fee that I was initially thinking.

    Aaron
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    likalarlikalar Member Posts: 108
    Sales tactics are regional. Here in the SF Bay area, a few dealers quickly made a big deal about the dealer's "invoice" price. They produce an "actual invoice" faster than offering a cold soda. One "invoice" was obviously dealer generated. It had 3 neat columns, showing wholesale, retail, and actual "invoice" cost. Laughable. Reading comments here makes me so thankful to have found a dealer that does buisness on a professional level. I know that gold truck is calling to you, but breath deeply, and take a little more time. The right truck at a fair price is out there somewhere. It's worth the wait. At least find a dealership that is honest about a port-installed wax coat.
    Larry
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    It's hard to avoid extra fees in the Southeast or Gulf States because of the regional distribution systems there. Try Tennessee :-)

    Actually I visit family in TN twice a year or so and I'm always surprised by the cost of living down there now; housing costs are ok, but other stuff will kill you. Maybe try Idaho, where it's all still cheap, lol.

    Bcmalibu99ls, there's always towing on a flatbed truck. Since no one pays attention to car alarms anyway, I doubt that the intrusion alarm will do a lot of good.

    Steve, Host
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    amheckamheck Member Posts: 37
    So (if you don't mind me asking) what's your opinion? Did my dealer really pay those two $575 fees? Or are they fluff? One, I guess, could be the destination charge, but I'm thinking the other could be taken off without too much trouble.

    Aaron
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Er, I'm not sure /weaseling :-). It's my understanding that Toyota only adds TDA and holdback to an invoice, so the other fees are added by the dealer or distributor.

    Hopefully a salesperson can refresh my memory. But if SET is charging the dealer a fee, the dealer will want to pass that along.

    The SET distributor treats their employees pretty well it sounds like, with pension plans and bonus cruises. Buyers pay for that, naturally.

    TMV is what people are typically paying for a car in your region. You can beat it, but if you don't pay more than TMV you at least know that you aren't paying any more than most people. To get a great price, you really need to get two or three dealers bidding for your business.

    If you said what city you live in, I've forgotten already, but since the Smokies are within a days drive of half the US population, it shouldn't be too difficult to find a good price on a rig and enjoy a road trip or get it shipped to you.

    Focus on the big picture. Figure out what a good price to pay and shoot for that, and don't worry too much about the line items. Better to spend your efforts negotiating the out the door cost. Finally, here's a link (under Car Salespeople) about added fees.

    I guess my opinion is keep looking. It's just a car, and a dozen more just like it will be arriving next week.

    Steve, Host
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    amheckamheck Member Posts: 37
    Ok, I'll go into the dealer and see what they can do. Also, with someone with a 4Runner manual list the way Toyota recommends to break in the truck? The reason I ask is because this truck I'm looking at was driven from St. Augistene to Tampa and now has 215 highway speed miles on it. I thought I remembered a while back someone says that you had to keep it under 55 or something like that for te first 500 miles. I'm guessing this didn't happen with this truck.

    Aaron
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    vodgutvodgut Member Posts: 162
    The only break-in advice I got was not to run it at the same RPM for more than 20 or so minutes for the first 1000 miles. During that time, if driving on cruise control, I was supposed to vary the speed by 5mph or so every so often. Given I didn't do much interstate driving until near the end of the first 1000 miles, it wasn't too terribly hard. Dunno if this is the 'official' break-in advice, though.
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    terrafirmaterrafirma Member Posts: 212
    Manual says to drive it gently, don't slam on the brakes, don't put loads on the engine (like downshifting and towing). Don't stay at the same speed for long distances. Vary your rpms. It didn't have a speed limit from what I remember.
    I wouldn't worry about it although 215 miles seems like alot for a brand new car. I think I had 20 miles on mine when I got it
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    sacstate1sacstate1 Member Posts: 189
    Modern vehicles are built to such tight specs that a break-in is not necessary the way a break-in was necessary for a vehicle built ten years ago.

    The official manual says to vary your speed, don't slam on the brakes (first 200 miles) and to not tow anything for the first 1,000 miles. No speed limitation was listed.

    I wouldn't worry too much about the 200+ miles. It is a blip when compared to the 100,000's of miles the Toyota will provide you with. Besides, you don't know who/how the person was driving who loaded the rig into the ocean traversing container ship, or drove it on the transfer truck or drove it down to the local gas station to fillup before handing you the keys. Heck, on Porsches, a mechanic runs the NEWLY built vehicle around the test lap at high speed before it is released to the public.
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    69mach169mach1 Member Posts: 60
    I noticed the other day after filling up with gas that there was a high pitched noise after start up of my 2003 Sport. The noise is similar to the noise you hear if attemting to lock the vehicle with a door open but higher and fainter. After about 10 to 15 seconds it went away. Anybody had similar experiences, if so what is it?
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    uktruckeruktrucker Member Posts: 14
    69mach1, try changing the temperature setting with the button on the dashboard - you'll probably get the same irritating noise. Mine does this too. Must be the climate control moving something...
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    aroutharouth Member Posts: 45
    Just out of curiosity, when are the offset crash test results for the 4Runner going to be released? The side and front crash tests have been pretty good.
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    likalarlikalar Member Posts: 108
    About my Sport 4WD V8: I just had a few great days in the mountains, with 8" of fresh snow before nightfall last Friday. The side roads never got plowed, and by the next evening, after a bit of melting, hardpack ice and ruts covered the roadway-a good test of this truck's capabilities on slick surfaces. Without getting technical, I can only report that it surpassed my expectations. Fast starts, hard braking, turning while braking, icy inclines, etc, both in high and low range, with and w/o center diff locked, etc......The surefootedness was amazing! The engineers have done a great job making this truck snow/ice ready. And every function worked seamlessly and nearly silently. -couldn't be happier!
    Larry
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    cliffy1cliffy1 Member Posts: 3,581
    SET does add a number of fees that you don't see elsewhere. Unfortunately, I can't tall you if any one of them is legitimate. Toyoguard is a good example. If you look at the invoice, the "cost" is something like $350 or so. However, the dealer is reimbursed $145 of this.

    The only fees that Toyota adds is the TDA fee. The holdback is in there too, but the invoice you get from Edmunds already includes this. TDA varies by region and we are NOT reimbursed this money.
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    orahovatsorahovats Member Posts: 7
    I have a 04 v8 4Runner Limited- 230 miles. Nice truck!
    But noticed the sulphur smell each time I step on the gas /rpm's above 2500/ below that range there is no smell. I live in Cheyenne WY. Do you guys notice it also? Is there anything that could be done?
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    2003help2003help Member Posts: 23
    2003 4Runner 4X4 17's
    What are the critics choice when it comes
    to snow chains?
    Haven't had to buy a set of chains in 10 years.
    Thought I'd start here and get some insight.
    Is there a brand that reigns above the rest?
    Have they made any improvements in the
    tie down of the excess chain?
    Plastic vs Steel? Storage?

    Thanks
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    dushma1dushma1 Member Posts: 8
    I want to know what is the best way to clean and protact leather seats?
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    bcmalibu99lsbcmalibu99ls Member Posts: 625
    you won't need chains :-)
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    hotrod051hotrod051 Member Posts: 11
    I just picked up my 04 4 Runner SE V6 today and one thing I thought was kind of odd was that the driver's side did not have a handle above the door but it was pre-drilled for it. I am just making sure that this is correct.
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    kheintz1kheintz1 Member Posts: 213
    Zaino products.
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Thanks Cliffy1!

    Lexol is another popular leather product; often more easily found in tack shops than parts stores.

    Steve, Host
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    azrunnerazrunner Member Posts: 16
    My 2003 Sport has handles above all 4 doors. I just noticed this the other day and giggled when picturing the driver holding on during a rough ride :) (Maybe they did away with this on the '04)

    I have a question. My 4Runner has an annoying long beeping noise when it is sliding on slippery surfaces. I noticed this when driving on a muddy road (no other route available.) Whenever the vehicle engaged the VSC it made this noise until it was back on course. Anyone know anything about this "feature?"

    Also, just checking....does the DAC make a gosh-awlful almost grinding noise when engaged?

    The truck works great on variable surfaces...just makes a lot of strange noises!

    Thanks.
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    stephend2stephend2 Member Posts: 21
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Another leather conditioner option:

    dklanecky "Nissan Murano Owners: Problems and Fixes" Nov 3, 2003 12:43pm

    Steve, Host
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    stephend2stephend2 Member Posts: 21
    Curious as to what tires came on your Sport.
    I have the same as you as a 03 model delivered in Calgary and it came with the Dunlop Grand Trek. This is and upgraded tire from the original Grand Trek that Toyota offered in 01 and is some what better. However we have a lot of snow now as our winter has started early and I'm finding the cornering and braking abilities of these ties to be mediocre. I'm now looking for a set of true winter tires and can' find any available in the 265/65 x17 so am going to get a set of 16 inch rims and get 265/70 x16. Probably the Michelin 4 x 4 alpins as I've had such success with my Artic Alpins on my VW golf.
    We dont get deep snow but lots of ice and packed snow. Any suggestions based on experience would be appreciated.(I've considered the x terrains but need a true ice tire )
    Cheers Steve
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    likalarlikalar Member Posts: 108
    You wrote: <<Curious as to what tires came on your Sport.>>
    Stephen, my truck also has the Dunlop GrandTrek AT 20 tires. I give them good marks for the snow/ice we were in last weekend. Of course I didn't compare them to other tires on the same truck, but I thought they did well. I guess without a head to head comparo, in identical conditions, tire preferences are pretty subjective. The tire whine often heard from more agressive tires drives me crazy; these Dunlops are very quiet, so I'm overall very happy with them. Let us know what you end up with for your icy roads.
    Larry
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    terrafirmaterrafirma Member Posts: 212
    The DAC is noisy because it is activating the anitlock brakes among other things. It works really well for those STEEP, slippery grades off road. Especially if you have to turn! Man that DAC rocks.
    DAC is only for off-road, lo gear type driving. I've been on trails so steep my passenger thought she would fall out the front windshield and I didn't need DAC. The times I did need it, I think her heart stopped because she didn't breath until after we leveled out again.

    I've not had on road conditions to activate VSC but my guess is that, for example, your wheels start to slip on the freeway and you don't realize it yet (the beginnings of hydroplaning maybe) the VSC alarm tells you something is amiss and the truck is adjusting.

    I think the combination of VSC and the alarm that would automatically make most people slow down- would prevent a loss of control.

    VSC is a ON-road feature. You can disable it off road by locking the differential for really rugged terrain.
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    sacstate1sacstate1 Member Posts: 189
    I don't have four grab handles in my '03 Sport. I thought about buying one from the dealer and installing it myself, but then realized that if I were in an accident that hard plastic handle two inches from the side of my head would become a hatchet. If you were hit sideways your body motion would throw you into that handle. Ouch! Or maybe you wouldn't even feel it. Just my $.02.
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    stephend2stephend2 Member Posts: 21
    Likalar. Thanks for the response. Well yes I am picky about tires. I had a 01 sequoia and changed the Dunlops to Toyo Open Country at about 25,000 miles and could not believe the difference. The were noisier for sure, it seems always to be a compromise, but the dry pavement, snow and wet were so much better to say nothing of the off road performance.
    I did not change the Dunlops for the 03 for Runner at delivery time because I convinced my self that they were a better model of tire. At least that's what Dunlop will tell you. Also the 265/65 x 17 have only one alternative available in my neck of the woods and thats the Michelin x terrain which are only marginally better on ice.
    Last winter when the tires were new I fiddled with pressures and found at 31 lbs( the dealer will have you run 35 lbs to prolong tire wear) they were OK. I now find that at 18,000 miles the cornering and breaking on ice is not OK and today I ordered the micheline 4 x 4 alpin 265 70 x 16. I will mount them on steel rims for winter use and use the stock mags and tires for summer. This will be a compromise on looks for sure but we do a lot of out of town driving and will have snow on the ground from now till April so I really have no choice. My children ride in this car. I think we have fallen in to the "all season tire myth" over the years and there really is no substitute for a good ice or snow tire. Will post hopefully a shorter comment in a week or 2 after putting some mileson the new set up. We will be in the rocky mountain passes (we live in Calgary) this weekend so the try out will be a good one.
    .........Also we too did not have the driverside grab handle. There are no air bags there so it seems the Toyota production line can't make up its mind.
    Cheers Steve
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    cliffy1cliffy1 Member Posts: 3,581
    If your driving... why would you need grab handles? Isn't that what the steering wheel is for?
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    jaredmsdjaredmsd Member Posts: 127
    orahovats:

    Sulphur smell.. hmm, you touched a long discussed topic, I would recommend you search this formum for sulphur (also sulfer, b/c some people couldn't spell) you will get many, many search results. All-in-all I think it was deemed that you just try different types of gas. States other than California have high sulphur contents and b/c the 4runner is a ULEV it gets effected much greater.

    hotrod051:
    it's correct, I don't have it either. I do however have the driverside handle that is more near the front windshield though, and I have heavily used that offroad going up a steep hill that was tilted to the right heavily (it kept me on my side of the cabin)

    azrunner:
    as terafirma replied, the DAC will make a ton of noise and that's normal, my blazer's anti-lock brakes make the same horrible noise, and yes, I have had the VSC go off on me when I was offroading through some sand and it gave off an awefull alarm. Again, normal. I locked the center-diff and it was smooth sailing after that.
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    polartoypolartoy Member Posts: 18
    Stephend2. If you have the 17 in tires on your limited, you cannot fit 16 inch rims as your rotors are too big. Bigger rotors on the limited.I have been looking for winter tires also. Only solution at present is to use your expensive mags and install the Artic Alpins or DMZ'3s which are available in that size. Toyota does not make a 17 inch steel winter rim. I have written to them about this and waiting for reply. After market 17 in mags are mostly too wide and would not work, as only size I found were 17x 8, instead of 17 x 7.5 which toyota uses. If you find a rim that fits, let us know.I tow a lot all winter so also need better snow tires than the Dunlops.
    Cheers
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    erisareperisarep Member Posts: 16
    My 03 Limited developed the infamous headliner rattle at approximately 7500 miles. Other than this, it has been an excellent trouble free vehicle. Took it to my Toyota dealer today and they were familiar with the 2 TSB that applied to the headliner and sunroof. Completed them in under 3 hours and the vehicle is once again perfectly quiet. No signs of the work on the interior. It can be done at the right dealership. Mine was Toyota of Plano in Plano Texas.
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    highlander7highlander7 Member Posts: 177
    jaredmsd post #8333 "I would recommend you search this formum for sulphur (also sulfer, b/c some people couldn't spell)"

    It is Sulfur in the United States, Sulphur in the U.K.
    http://minerals.usgs.gov/minerals/pubs/commodity/sulfur/
    http://www.chemicalelements.com/elements/s.html

    U.K. site: "The spelling of sulphur is "sulfur" in the USA ........."
    http://www.webelements.com/webelements/elements/text/S/key.html

    What's the difference, spelling does not matter on forums, just get it close. Any of the 3 spellings of sulfur are o.k.
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    kheintz1kheintz1 Member Posts: 213
    I think you've done the right thing, which is to buy what you want! Almost all of us here are very picky, choosy, and particular about lots of things with our trucks, including tires! Here in Ohio, the Cross Terrains are what I prefer for MY needs, but others will prefer and need different tires, etc., etc. But the real cause for celebration (and gratitude) is that those of us who are hard-working and successful enough to own these vehicles are also free and able to choose the "details" that help make our pride (and confidence) of ownership even more rewarding and satisfying. Most of us want our trucks "just so" and this ought to be part of the shear fun and pleasure of ownership.
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    ltc9024ltc9024 Member Posts: 11
    I was told by my service manager that a Toyota 16" steel rim could be used for snows to put on my 03 Limited 4Runner that has the standard 17" rims. Now I am beginning to wonder if they will???? I will be calling him tomorrow as he was trying to find me some Toyota rims. I was planning on Toyo P265/70R16 snows!!!!
    HELP!!!!!!!!
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    tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    I would recommend you search this formum for sulphur (also sulfer, b/c some people couldn't spell)

    What exactly is a "formum?" :-)

    tidester, host
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    hnavarrhnavarr Member Posts: 5
    Consumer reports rates the v6 as "not reliable" does anyone know what kind of problems owners have had? I just got a 2004 and I had no idea.
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    canddmeyercanddmeyer Member Posts: 410
    2600+ miles & cruising here with -0- problems on 2003 model, which has an all new V6, which is different from the 2002 & earlier V6. 18mpg combined driving (Hwy, City, Offroad). Don't believe everything CR prints. It was a much more factual magazine before its Editor, formerly the President of HCI (Handgun Control Incorporated) took over. Now it's a liberal rag giving opinions, not fact.....SUV's bad for the environment, econoboxes good....etc., etc., etc. I stopped subscribing for that reason. I wanted a vehicle opinion, not an environmental opinion. Your post makes me wonder what they're saying about the less economical V8.
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    terrafirmaterrafirma Member Posts: 212
    The CR report on reliability was done in spring 2003. The new V8 and V6 4 Runners came out in spring 2003.

    I don't know how CR magically got reliability scores from all-new 4Runners that were introduced at the same time as the CR report.

    The best they can say is "based on the reliability of the V8 in the Tundra and Sequoia, we can extrapolate the V8 4 Runner will be reliable" but that is not said. The V6 is an all-new, VVTi, alloy engine. There is no reliability data on it. It is misrepresentation to say otherwise.

    Besides the engines and trannys (all new on the V8, proven reliable on the V6) both 4 Runners are identical. For CR to say one is "the most reliable" and one is "least reliable" is either a misprint or just plain stupid.
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    pat84pat84 Member Posts: 817
    My 03 Sport V-8 has a drivers grab handle as do the other passenger spaces. I assumed it was for very short drivers to assist in entry / exit, sort of like the pull strap on the tail gate to assist short drivers with something to grab to close it.
      I guess I could grab the driver's grab handle and say something like, "This is going to be really bad." as a joke, and see what my passengers did.
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    ltc9024ltc9024 Member Posts: 11
    In response to Polartoy who said that 16" winter rims will NOT fit on a Limited..........this is wrong!!!!! They might not work on a Sport model that does have bigger rotors but the Limited model has the SAME brakes that the SR5 has and it comes with P265/70R16 rims as standard.
    Since there are no 17" rims available that I can find as of yet, and there are only two choices for tires I am going the 16" route. The diamter of the two tires is so close the speedometer will not be affected.......well to a .1% error factor.
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    martin45martin45 Member Posts: 51
    How is everyone&#146;s smelly piece of trash doing these days? I haven&#146;t visited this forum for sometime, but I clearly see that the sulfur smell that I spoke of the beginning of 2003 has become a major topic. For those of you who so adamantly said that the smell was limited to a few 2003 4Runner vehicles, you were obviously wrong.

    The vehicle is a piece of crap. Toyota will not stand behind the sulfur problem. All they will do is blame the type and grade of gasoline. Anyone who purchases one of these vehicles deserves what they get.

    The only way to correct the sulfur problem is to get rid of it to some poor unsuspecting person, or a dealer. Either way you will take a big loss.

    I know there is a board specifically for this topic. I will post there as well.

    Good luck

    Peace
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    likalarlikalar Member Posts: 108
    <<...The vehicle is a piece of crap..... Anyone who purchases one of these vehicles deserves what they get..>>

    Oooooh, somebody's Cheerios got soggy this morning!!! Well, to make you feel even better, Martin, I'm happy to report my V8 4Runner has absolutely no odor problem at all. Let me guess..with your endearing attitude you weren't able to find a factory rep to go to bat for you?
    <<...Either way you will take a big loss..>> Sorry for your loss.
    Larry
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