BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

blueguydotcom · June 2003

current 330i owners: did your mileage get better as the car aged? I've got about 1200 miles on my 330i and I'm still getting about 21 mpg. While that's not horrible I kinda hoped for better, especially considering I only take it over 4k rpms maybe two or three times a drive.

Now that the car's broken in (according to BMW's manual) I know I'll be playing more often in the higher end of the engine's sweet spot. Considering I've been conservative I'm sorta worried I'll get 15-16 mpg when I'm really driving the car. :O

riez · June 2003

M3 and M5 have LSD. This is a huge shortfall in rest of line. Why can't BMW have LSD as an option like they did for decades???

div2 · June 2003

BMW no longer offers limited slip across the model range because ASC suits the needs of 99.9% of new BMW owners. Sad but true.

riez · June 2003

div2... I understand. This rot set in during early 1990s as TC systems came along. But BMW knows enough to know it needs LSD for M3 and M5. Sad that other cars like IS300, Nissan Maxima, etc. can be ordered with LSD!

sopecreek · June 2003

Is it really needed for those who do not track their cars? Just out of curiosity...

shipo · June 2003

Do I NEED LSD? No. However, all too frequently I come around a corner with a little sand on the pavement just as I am transitioning to the power, only to have the inside rear tire start to spin. When that happens, the computer kicks in and absolutely TROUNCES on the engine, and it feels like my car is almost dead, only to have it just as suddenly recover. Not the most smooth method of driving. :-/

If I had been able to order the Limited Slip option that BMW used to have, I would certainly have checked off that box. To my way of thinking, BMW should look at this as just one more "ala-carte" option and just a way to add just a little more to their bottom line.

Best Regards,
Shipo

jmess · June 2003

I am really surprised that ZHP doesn't have the LSD. This would have been far more useful and performance enhancing than some of the trim options. The ZHP would have been a natural place for BMW to insert this option in the sub M3 version of the car. Please note that I am not trying to start a flame war on this subject. An LSD is one of my check boxes for a sporty car. Checking the M3 box is not in the cards at the moment though :-)

Once you drive a car with an LSD, and feel the car hook up under throttle exiting a turn, you really start to hate electronic traction control. As mentioned above, it is far too easy to spoof traction control. It doesn't know what you know and feel, all it does is sense wheel slip and apply the brakes whether you want it to or not. In my racing days I immediately took a .5 seconds off my lap times by installing an LSD in my car. That is pretty significant improvement in performance. On a wet track it was even better. It is pretty hard to have too much traction in a street car unless you are trying to rotate the rearend with a lot of throttle. So an LSD enhances enthusiast level street driving also.

For those of you who get BMW surveys asking for feedback on your cars, consider mentioning the lack of an LSD option as being a negative. Until more people start making noise about this shortcoming, BMW will happily take your money and use the brakes as a band aid in place of the real thing. Having an LSD and traction control with an on/off button is the best setup. BMW's cost for an LSD would be about 300-$500 per car; how much they would mark it up would be another question.

martini4me · June 2003

Hi: I have a new 2003 328Ci / Steptronic that has about 1k miles on it. I've noticed an odd noise and wanted to see if anyone has any clues about it. When I'm traveling at highway speeds for at least 10 minutes or so, and then ease off of the accelerator, there is a whining noise that seems to come from the engine. The noise is hard to describe...take the word "who" and elogate it..."whoooooooo." When I press back on the accelerator a little the noise goes away. It sounds like it's coming from the engine in the center of the vehicle. It seems unrelated to the climate control system...have tested with fan on and off and a/c on and off and it still does it. Any ideas? I'll also ask the dealer, but will be traveling for work (via plane) for the next couple of weeks and wondered if the boardies here have any experience with it. Other than that small oddity, the car is fabulous. My only complaint is that I don't get time to drive it enough. It'll be even better after the first Zaino treatment. Thanks for any info you all have!

joes230 · June 2003

First I assume you mean 2003 330Ci, not 328Ci. Your noise and the steps to reproduce it sound vaguely like the known "differential whine" problem. You described it as from the middle of the vehicle, but the differential whine comes from the rear (technically) although to some people it seems to come from everywhere.

Supposedly a running manufacturing change eliminated this around 2001, but my 2003 330i SP 5-speed had it. I talked to the service manager and they applied the TSB (an insulating strip of butyl rubber tape) on the drive shaft mount, and it basically went away. A few others with post 2001 MY cars have reported likewise.

Here's a couple of links with more info. Read those more detailed descriptions and see if they match your problem.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2- - 759&highlight=butyl

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1- - 4622&highlight=whine

martini4me · June 2003

thanks for the "whine" info. I'll ask the dealership about it. I actually have a 325Ci. I'm a baaaad car owner. Had an old 328 and had a quick-typing typo....thanks for the links.

magbarn · June 2003

Hmmm, I dunno if it's due to your ZHP cams/lower final drive or not, but my 330i 6sp at 2600 miles has been averaging around 24 city and 28-30 on hwy. Lead foot may also be a factor

lukyme · June 2003

I was a bit surprised by your mileage report. Just picked my 330i w/ automatic last week. On my first 500 mile trip (started with <100 miles on odometer) I got 31 mpg with mostly highway driving. Granted, I was following the break-in procedure varying speeds from 65-80 mph, and not driving aggressively, but even so, 31 mpg on a new engine impressed me. Getting about 25-26 mpg with normal type driving now, still within break-in period. Seems your figures are on the low side???

bmorofsky · June 2003

Just took delivery of new M3 convertible. Has SMG Tranny, 19" wheels, Aluminum trim,Harmon Kardon system,xenon lights , Carbon Black with Cin leather. My question is I was told not to go to drivelogic program # 6 in sequential mode until I've gone about 1500 miles. Can any one tell me if its that much quicker than #5 with the sport button pushed. ITs really tempting to try it , but I don't want to mess up the machinery

blueguydotcom · June 2003

I'd say on the optimistic side it's a 60/40 split. Probably closer to 70/30 doing freeway speeds. Just because I'm on the highway, that doesn't mean I'm doing over 30

On a few long freeway jaunts I've seen probably 30 mpg but around town it's nearer to 20.

benjminn · June 2003

We just bought a new 2003 325 sedan and tonight when I parked the car I noticed a strange gurgling (almost percolating) sound. It seemed to come from the front of the car/center console to driver's side. It was pronounced when the car was idle but I could hear it afterwards when I tried to drive the car around a little. I am very worried since my car has just passed two hundred miles. Has anyone had any similar problems? If so, what do I need to do about it?

Benjminn

tenet1 · June 2003

I drove my <2 year old 2001 325i to the dealer (for 15k service) this morning with a big smile on my face enjoying the drive during the sunny morning we had in DC.

The service advisor asked me if there is anything else they should check for while the car was in for service. I thought about it for a couple of seconds and relied "No, absolutely nothing".

This car is solid as a rock.

lukyme · June 2003

Just got my 330i w/ automatic, and love the car. I noticed that when starting from a stop, the engine seems to hesitate slightly, or so it seems. You have to give it a little more gas, and then it surges forward, kind of quickly. When the dealer was taking it out of the show room for me, he chirped the tires a bit. I just laughed, and he replied " these 330's sure have allot of get up and go". I have driven the car about 500 miles and am enjoying every moment in the car. My wife drove the car with me this weekend, and she commented about the hesitation when first starting out also. And I had not said a thing to her about this perception of mine.
Do others notice this, or do I need to take it to the dealer to check out ??
Thanks all.

jgravel · June 2003

I have a 330xi/auto with about 2K miles on it and I also notice hesitation at take off. It seems like the engine hits 1500 rpms before the tranny fully engages. I didn't notice this on any of the test drives I took. Please post if you hear anything mechanical that could cause this.

Thx

genie1 · June 2003

Just a quick BMW related update: mine still runs like a dream...

My dad is turning in the 2000 Jeep Grand Cherokee we leased for his business. We looked at the X5 and ML, but they were too expensive...so we briefly considered the Explorer and the Murano.

We've finally decided that the BMW and MB wagons give us the best of all possible worlds: cargo capacity for deliveries/road trips, comfort/some luxe (this is my dad's semi-retirement car) and ease of handling for my mom (she doesn't drive the Jeep).

Between the two, the Bimmer has better residuals, so that's what they've picked. We got a 1/2 percent off for repeat financing thru' BMWFS, another 1/2 percent off for repeat buying thru' the dealership I purchased from and $1500 off MSRP. All MB stores are corporate-owned so they don't deal off MSRP.

So now my car will be parked on the driveway

as my brother's C230 and my parent's 325 will get to sleep indoors.

blueguydotcom · June 2003

Genie, did you buy down the lease with security deposits? You coulda saved even more

The dealers won't mention MSDs because it's sapping BMW and dealer profit big time.

genie1 · June 2003

No I don't think we did that. I'm not quite sure what that entails...do you mean paying a larger security deposit?

I believe it's 5k down, plus taxes (15% in Ontario), freight and pdi...it comes to about 9k at signing. With the low apr and high residual, my dad's paying less per month than he is on the JGC (he was willing to spend more)...and the mileage is better and service is included.

blueguydotcom · June 2003

With each MSD (multiple security deposit) you lower your money factor by 0.0001. Each MSD is equal to your monthly payment. You can buy up to 10.

For instance on my BMW the car had a MF of 0.0013 (actually 0.001225...but anyway)...

I bought 10 MSDs, bringing my MF down to 0.0003 (or about .7% apr). On a MF of 0.0013 my lease would have been 550 a month. By handing them 5k I dropped my payment to 480 a month. That's a $70 savings monthly - or $840 a year (2500 over the life of the lease). At the end of 3 years I get my 5k back and it had a 50% return rate over those 3 years. I can live with that kinda rate of return!

BTW, BMW is changing MSDs at the end of june to a max of 5.

ksoman · June 2003

I'm a little perplexed by the cargo capacity note of yours regarding BMW X5... but hey, sometimes, you tend to overlook the little gray spots when your heart is sold to the ummm bmw devil?

j/k.

on another note, i dont know how long my client will entertain me not going to toronto claiming SARS fright....

ah such is life...

ksso

supra880 · June 2003

Not to change the subject or anything, but I'm considering purchasing a MY2004 BMW 325Ci (Sport package, moonroof, adaptive headlights), and had a couple of questions that I can't seem to find the answers to.

1.) What controls are located on the steering wheel, and are they lighted?

2.) I saw somewhere that there are rear heater vents located in the back for rear-seat passengers -- is this true?

Thanks to anybody who answers these, thus saving me a trip to my local BMW dealer.

supra880

genie1 · June 2003

bgdc:
Now I get it. That's a good idea. I'm not sure they do this in TO.

ksoman:
re. cargo capacity...we don't need that much...just enough to deliver three to four boxes/ plants from the garden centre/ annual xmas tree/ road trip stuff. The Jeep came in handy.

Our other two cars are coupes so a sedan was out of the question. No one wanted to be driving a minivan.

Cross off SUVs coz the BMW/MB/Lexus were too expensive and the Ford/Toyota/Nissan range were too unappealing. We really wanted comfort and a little bit of luxe. So to me the wagon was the only reasonable alternative. (OK, I'll admit to being exulted when my dad picked the Bimmer over the MB...the BMW devil has me hooked)

Re. Sars...honestly nothing to worry about...we've been having gorgeous weather here.

tweet227 · June 2003

Supra

I just purchased a 2004 330CIC about 6 weeks ago. Its fully loaded with premium, sport and cold weather package. To answer your questions, you can control volume, track number/presets on radio, cruise control, and all of the controls if you opt for a BMW phone on the steering wheel. The buttons are lightly back lit at night. Regarding the rear vents, I don't have them, however the coupe in your case may be slightly different.

Also, FYI the adaptive xenons are awesome! At lower speeds the lights illuminate the area closer to the front and side of the car, and at higher speeds they point longer to give you maximum visibility. They really do make a difference.

However on a lower note, my car has been in the shop 3 times in the past 6 weeks. EVERYTHING from cylinder failure, doors not locking, top not going up or down, to springs and plastic pieces in the car breaking, this car has been a nightmare. But when its not in the shop, its an amazing machine.

Hope you have better luck with yours than I with mine.

lukyme:
I too have noticed (my car being an automatic) that there is a delay from when I step on the gas to when the car actually picks up and goes, and I think thats just the way the engine is.

ksoman · June 2003

we have a 2004 325 cic, for about 7 weeks now. Car went to shop only once because they forgot to set up the key memory and we had to get the tint done. Sorry to hear about your car.

Yes the adaptive headlights are awesome to say the least. When you start upt he car in the garage in the low lights, its actually interesting to see the lights turn on in their auto mode and do the little self check dance or whatever it does...

As for the rear vents, there are vents on the back of the back seat, under the head rests and between the two headrests (convertible atleast) that i've not figured out the purpose for... maybe they are just a style thing and nothing more.

ksso #0

uga91 · June 2003

I was listening to the radio this morning and they started talking about a list on the site gay.com. They list the top 10 gay cars for 2003. A couple I was expecting--like the Miata and New Beetle. A couple surprised me, though--like the 3-Series. My wife agreed right away saying she sees many homosexuals driving 3ers near her office in Atlanta. I've never noticed or considered it to be. In fact, I like them a lot and would love to have a 325 wagon--a great combination of looks and utility, IMO. What are the thoughts of you owners? Have you heard this--is it true? Thanks.

tenet1 · June 2003

I have heard this before too. It came up on another message board when a radio talk show aired this bit.

I am looking into a wagon as well to replace my SUV in about a year. Yes, I have come to my senses and will stick to a wagon. The 3er wagon is a bit small for me and wont be enough for the days I really need the space when picking up people from the airports or going on long road trips with kid gear. I am starting to look at the A6 wagon which I am sure is a lot roomier. Let see where my search leads.

sailoverfuel · June 2003

Uga---I heard it in the radio...yeah right. I think you may be a homophobic. Who cares...you are what u are, or are you? relax...I'm joking.

I am still seeking opinions regarding the leg room in the back. I like the 325 and have 3 kids (no carseats). My wife also likes it but could go either way woth most cars. I like Bimmers since I grew up driving an M5 and would like to get my own and grow to a series 5 in the future.

My question is...can 3 kids seat in the back? I know that there are other more spacious cars but I do like the 3. I sometimes even put 4 (for those who are perfect and never do that because of seatbelts please save the speech----someone insulted me in a forum for doing this and then wrote about how he drove his new car at 100mph and how it felt great- no sermons).

uga91 · June 2003

I, too, have 3 kids and like the 3-Series. Believe it or not, the back of the 3er is not as small as you would think. It's not big, but not small. It's virtually the same size as a Passat and bigger than a C-Class M-B. Even the current 5-Series has almost the same size interior. The 5 has more leg room, but width is practically the same. I think BMW put all the size in the interior as the trunk is on the small side, I believe. The reason why I like the wagon is because I rarely have all 3 kids with me when running errands and I could easily do what I need to do in the 325 wagon. I could not have it as my primary car, though, and I can't get a third car--so I may have to wait until my van is paid off or something. To the person who mentioned he may go to an A6 Avant, that may be a good choice as well. The A6 is only a little more than a 325 with auto and a few more goodies (same goes for the A4 vs A6 as well).

uga91 · June 2003

I looked it up and they said: "...the BMW 3-Series has topped the list of all-time gay favorites...but as they say gays have taste." I still never would have guessed. I guess it could be worse, the X5 also made the list. They called it "...a Grand Cherokee for label whores." That seems pretty harsh, IMO.

mrl11777 · June 2003

will fit fine if they don't have legs. The reality is that a 3-series sedan is really a coupe with two extra doors to give access to a vestigial back seat. Great car, but really only practical for two. The back seat is for emergencies only.

Of course, if you are a little guy, and drive with the seat really close to the wheel, then the back seat becomes a bit more usable.

Also, the 5 has the same interior dimensions (give/take an inch here and there) as the 3.

uga91 · June 2003

I hate to get picky, but the interior of the sedan is larger than the coupe. The sedan has 1" more rear head room, 1.5" more rear shoulder room, and 1.4" more rear leg room. In the grand scheme of things, it's probably not enough to make too much of a difference, but every little bit helps. I'm in agreement that it is not the best choice if you must carry 3 people back there regularly; but, all I'm saying is that it is not as small as you would think--and bigger than the coupe.

sailoverfuel · June 2003

Thanks...the kids do have legs, unless I chop them off. I will bring the kids to the dealership and see myself..duh!

I am not gay but I do agree. Gays do have great taste (everyone knows this). That has no impact in my decision making, gays can do and get the car they whant. Space does!

uga91 · June 2003

I'm not a 3-Series owner, so I know I need to leave this topic to those that do, but...I do have a Saturn Ion and my 3 kids fit in it fine. I would not take them cross country or anything, but plenty for around town. I checked the figures and the 3-Series has a bigger back seat than the Ion does. So, unless the sides of the seats are molded in a way that limits seat space, 3 kids should fit fine in the back of a 3-Series.

blueguydotcom · June 2003

My question is...can 3 kids seat in the back? I know that there are other more spacious cars but I do like the 3. I sometimes even put 4 (for those who are perfect and never do that because of seatbelts please save the speech----someone insulted me in a forum for doing this and then wrote about how he drove his new car at 100mph and how it felt great- no sermons).

Yes you can fit 3 children.

And that was me on the TSX board and I won't back down from it. Why anyone would ever let a child (or any passenger) ride in a car without a seatbelt is beyond my ken. I call the cops when I see unbuckled kids bouncing around just as I do when I see an obvious DUI weaving down the road. According to a friend of mine in the CHP over 1/3 of the tickets he writes come from cell phone tips. People have probably reported me for speeding!

BTW, I rarely break 85 (75-80 is crusing around here) on the freeway. And when I do it's on desolate stretches and late at night so I can see the lights of other cars from miles away.

So chafe over comments. I don't mind. I think putting 4 kids in the backseat of a sedan is irresponsible and dangerous. People think speeding is dangerous too. To each his own.

imadrone · June 2003

Does anyone know when BMW will be announcing prices/options/changes for the 2004 MY 3-Series sedans/wagons?

Thanks,
Richard

sailoverfuel · June 2003

Nope not u...You did not use profanity...insult (I did go check your post at TSX) but thanks for admitting to your hypocrisy...SPEEDING OK late at night but not 4 individuals in the back...BY THE WAY I ALSO SPEEEEED and no I have no accidents in my record. The only incident was at less than 15mph and it was thrown out...no ticket not at fault.

kdshapiro · June 2003

There is a difference in degrees between speeding, and having 4 kids in the backseat with any of them unbuckled. There is no excuse for the latter. Speeding is speed in more than 1 mph over the posted speed limit. Speeding and reckless driving are two very different things and one does not imply the other. Speeding will get you a ticket, reckless driving will get you thrown into jail. Having unbuckled kids in the back is insane. Even a not at fault accident going within the speed limit can critically hurt an unbuckled child.

mrl11777 · June 2003

Look, these cars are just fun! If one is trying to convince oneself that they are somehow just as practical as an accord, or a minivan, or a taurus, and that an inch of legroom in the back is going to be the deciding factor in whether or not one gets the m3 (hey, it's got five seatbelts!) or the caravan, go ahead and be convinced.

I'm very happy that we have all of these choices. If the liberaltreehuggingpersonalcarhatingeveryoneonthebusgorebotweenies have there way, we would all be driving Priuss (what is the term for more than one Prius?) to the train/bus station. No BMW for you!

sailoverfuel · June 2003

Just admitted to previously allowed 4 indiv. in the back. I do NOT have 4 kids and allow this on a daily basis on highways (yes the kids wear their seatbelt and so do I).

By the way speeding may be reckless, depending on the SPEED lets not get technical (feel free to ask an oficer).

Blueguy was NOT the one with the insults and then claiming to drive at 100mph...which I consider reckless, isolated parkway or not. This was some time ago.

kdshapiro- Both things are wrong and to say one is less than the other is stupid b/c it depends on the actual miles over the limit (lack of info-if ya driver does 80 in a 40mph limitt he will get a reckless driving summons pluss speeeding and anything else the officer may be able to fine him with and well deserved).

Lastly, I also call the police (I think most of us do) if we sense or see a DUI driver in action or about to get into a car so Kudos to you.

I am sorry if I disrespected anybody...my appologies. So back to cars...BMW 3's for now

uga91 · June 2003

I agree with you--except that not all people with 3 kids have to drive nothing but mini vans. If you only haul all 3 at the same time a couple times a month and they will fit in a 3er, then why should you not get one if that is what you want? Now, if you will haul all 3 every day, then maybe a mini van would be better. Just my opinion.

sailoverfuel · June 2003

Yeap...u r right.

Thats one thing that I should think about. As I think back I cannot say that I ride with all three every week. I need to pay attention to this as I look into defferent alternatives...but the best thing to do is to bring all the kids to the dealership...and that will show me what kind of salesman I have when he sees the whole ang!

test drive with them.

chile96 · June 2003

If it matters, when I have 4 kids with me in my wife's 3er, I put 3 in the back, case of beer in the front, and let the 4th kiddo stand up on the armrest and hang out the sunroof. There's plenty of room. Heck, I could probably even fit a stripper in the driver's seat with me!

signed
anonymously (plz don't let the wife see this one!)

sailoverfuel · June 2003

Gracias...one honest person...I think I saw u driving by. There was hair coming outa' d trunk...probably person number six.

chile96 · June 2003

blueguydotcom · June 2003

If it matters, when I have 4 kids with me in my wife's 3er, I put 3 in the back, case of beer in the front, and let the 4th kiddo stand up on the armrest and hang out the sunroof. There's plenty of room. Heck, I could probably even fit a stripper in the driver's seat with me!

Rofl

There's always room Jello and strippers.

rayainsw · June 2003

Speeding is a matter of degree . . .

You bring up a very interesting point. And here I suppose it is necessary to insert a caveat that speeding and enforcement of speeding laws are 2 different things.

My observation is that the speed limit is not the speed limit. Meaning: the posted limit is a starting point for enforcement to look at. Although law enforcement in some (thankfully rare) places will, in fact, ticket a driver for traveling at 1 mph over the posted limit, the vast majority of jurisdictions appear to issue tickets beginning at some threshold above the posted limit. 5 mph. 10 mph. Or even more, as I have driven through radar traps on 4+ lane, limited access hiways at close to 15 mph over the limit without triggering an event.

This has long bothered me. I would much prefer to see a higher limit and enforcement of exceeding the limit  by any degree. Locals often know both where and by how much they can get away with speeding. Those using the same roads on a less regular basis typically seem to guess how much lee way the enforcement will allow. I have set my cruise control at 9 over the limit (and slowed for towns, etc. along the route  for instance from Tifton, GA to Talahasee, FL) and observed others, both in front of and behind me, doing almost precisely the same thing - and to the same degree. And watch carefully for enforcement.

Id like to see them raise the limit(s) to the effective limit, publicly acknowledging the reality, and ticketing for any infraction.

And I believe that in this state (GA), at least, exceeding the speed limit by enough will allow the offender to be charged with reckless driving  and spend some time researching conditions the inside of a jail.

Just my $.02.

- Ray
Rarely ticketed  and taxed - for speeding  not in a BMW since 1974 - and never for any other moving violation . . .

joes230 · June 2003

The US Interstate system was designed to safely support 75mph speeds with 1960s car technology, and many states had 75mph limits.

In 1974 the Emergency Highway Conservation Act reduced speed limits to 55mph nationwide. The purpose was not safety but energy conservation.

It thus overnight became possible to exceed the posted limit by 20mph, get a reckless driving citation, while driving the same safe 75mph speed as the previous day.

This clearly illustrates that speed limits do not always exist for safety reasons.

Re those that think any speeding is speeding, and the law breakers deserve punishment: if you secretly put a data logger on everybody's car, you'd find the majority of people exceed some speed limit almost every day they drive. My 70 yr old mother thinks she never speeds, but if you watch the speedo, she often hits 35 in a 30, etc. Virtually everybody does this. Yet if any speeding is wrong and deserves punishment, almost every driver in the country should get a citation every day they drive.

The fact is over a wide range of speeds, there's only a very loose correlation between vehicle speed and safety. Is 70-75mph on freeways more dangerous than 55mph? If so you'd expect after discontinuing the national speed limit, that freeway death rates per vehicle mile would increase. Yet they've continued decreasing. If 100mph on an isolated, deserted road is extremely dangerous, then in Germany where such speeds are common the death rate per vehicle mile would be hugely higher than in the US. In fact it's about the same or even lower.

It's a complicated picture and there are many variables besides just speed. Although often framed as a safety issue, issuing speeding tickets is polluted by the powerful monetary incentives often at work.

If you want to vastly increase highway safety and lower death rates, institute German-style driver training and vehicle inspection programs. Fund it by diverting ticket revenue from local municipalities to a national driver training fund. You'll see a lot fewer tickets, a lot less deaths, and cops redeployed from revenue generation to more beneficial activities.

BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

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