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So Toyota has issued a recall for ALL echos 01 and 02.
2. Keep your tires inflated to 4-5 psi over what's listed as the recommended pressure on the driver's door. Not only will fuel economy increase, it'll increase the life of the tread, reduce road noise, and improve handling. The recommended pressure is purely for ride comfort.
3. Keep a clean air filter installed.
4. Make sure the spark plugs don't need to be replaced, and if so, replace them.
5. Run full synthetic oil if you aren't already. This won't make a huge difference in mileage, but it'll double or triple the amount of miles you can go on an oil change, which in the long run saves time and money.
"wont make a huge difference in mileage" RIGHT!
"triples the ammount of mileage you can go on an oil change." WRONG if your cars under warranty. Toyota wants the oil changed whether its dino or synth. Same interval for either oil.
"in the long run saves time and money." Hard to figure. An oil change with synthetic will cost $20 just for the oil. I can get oil at Pep Boys for 59 cents a quart on sale and Purolator oil filters for 49 cents on sale. Thats an oil change every four months for a year for about $9.
One thing synthetic oil WILL DO is leak out of your engine where dino will not (or less so) This is especially true as the engine gets older. Something to think about. Certainly if you are using a quart of oil every thousand miles you just spent $5 to have synthetic vs 59 cents for regular.
If you live where it is very cold in the winter for long periods of time (like below 10 degrees) yes you have my blessing to use sytthetic oil. "I" would use synthetic oil under those consitions. Yes Sir.
Let me ask you this; have you ever done a UOA on that $.59 Pep Boys oil? How long are your OCI's? Do you even know if that cheap oil is good for that long? Most dinos are only good for 3-5K miles, whereas there are many good syns that'll go 12-15K easily. Also, there's the time and effort of having to crawl under the car every 3-5K miles to change that oil. Then you have 2-3 times as much to dispose of. Get the picture?
You're also about 5 years behind with your syn-oil-causes-leaks theory. That may have been true years ago, but not any more. Syns today have much better seal conditioners. The result is far fewer leaks then before. Now days you're not any more likely to experience leaks with syn than with dino.
Your only valid point is about the car burns a lot of oil. In that vehicle I would also run dino.
Synthetic oil was developed to be used in turbine (jet) engines at temperatures and pressures that do not exist in an automobiles engine. Yes it can do some pretty amazing things. It wont make your engine last any longer or get any better mileage. How a vehicle is driven pretty much determines that, everything else being equal.
In 2000 I started putting a quart of (synthetic) oil in my 1975 BMW R90/6 along with a quart and a half of regular oil for winter (below 20 degree F) use. I did it so the egnine would start better. It did indeed, but it also made the gaskets between the cylinders and the crankcase weep oil! Something that hadn't happened in 25 years! Snythetic oil is just thinner than regular oil under the same temperature so its gonna find places to leak out of conventional oil wont. Doesnt have anything to do with seal conditioners. Its not a big deal unless youre like my daughter and dont check your oil when you should.
Yes I hear that stuff about less oil going into the environment. Seems to me like million gallon oil spills make that pretty much a moot point. I understand CA had proposed legislation a few years ago that would have sealed crankcases so only the dealer could change your oil! Nuttyest thing I ever heard!
As for crawling under the car three times a year Ill take every chance to crawl under my car I can get! While its up on ramps Im checking my CV joint boots, brake lines, exhaust pipes, ball joint boots, tie rod end boots, radiator hoses and connections for leaks, bleeding my clutch cylinder, and so on.
You ever do that?
And yes, I do check all of those things on my vehicles, only not every 3-5K miles, which is overkill.
You never answered any of my questions about the cheap Pep Boys oil.
Unfortunately I should have mentioned that this car is a hatchback. I can't see any of the mounting nuts - I suspect I need to remove the side panel before these are visible.
http://autos.yahoo.com/consumerreports/article/fuel_efficient_cars_category.html- ;_ylt=AhHFgt1uD5wNNmCLs9UryrEEc78F;_ylc=X3oDMTE4N3UycWFyBF9TAzI3MTYxNDkEc2VjA2Zw- LXRvZGF5BHNsawN0b2RheS1tb2R1bGU-
I didn't realize it, but in Consumer Reports' testing, this little car did even better than the Civic hybrid for mpg!
And of course, it was the highest-rated gas-only car. :-)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
The ECHO is one nifty little car, eh?
63 hp is the engine rating now, and I suppose it will go up for the North American model. I am hoping for 50 mpg though, which would comfortably trump the Echo.
The Yaris is way off though - for the money and the low mileage I would go the extra $1000 and get the Matrix - lots more space for the money, although the Versa is a pretty nice ride, and better looks.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
The Versa is a very nice car inside, which is refreshing given its price. Still a goodly amount of hard plastic though. But check out how much personal space you have in the driver's seat before you pass judgment. And those are comfy supportive seats.
If the ONLY thing you prioritize is fuel economy, then no, it won't be all that for you. But it does have a lot of things going for it. And 30+ mpg is acceptable for a small hatch/wagon, given its versatility and passenger capacity (four adults will be perfectly comfortable in the Versa).
And the new Accent is rated 32/35, which is at least decent. Yes, the Echo will save 10-15% in gas costs vs the Accent. But Accent has a nifty SE trim level which looks really cool and has 16s with 205/50 tires. Yesss! :-)
Of course, there is no optional cruise control - what is it with automakers in this engine size class? None of them except Honda can figure out how to engineer a cruise for such a small engine? With the Accent SE it's not a question of price point/options packaging, as it has every other bell and whistle under the sun, including heated outside mirrors and moonroof.
The magic of the Echo, and the trump card it holds that will never be re-trumped I am sure, is light weight. 2100 pounds? They will never build anything short of a dedicated sports car that light again. This along with a technologically advanced engine in a powertrain designed for efficiency is what gets this car such fantastic mileage.
Sometimes, I think it might be fun to lower an Echo, give it proper suspension and sway bars and larger rims with lower profile tires, and turn it into a real handler, you know? The weight thing is totally in its favor for handling as well. Then you could slap a turbo under the hood and take it to the track! You would have the most absurd-looking car out there, but I bet you would leave most cars in the dust. Remember, the Lotus Elise is only 190 hp, 135 lb-ft, and it only weighs a couple of hundred pouinds less.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
But not for me, sadly. Not only do I sometimes need four seats, but with my girth (ahem!) I need a larger driver's space too. :-/
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
The fuel injector thing sounds pretty fishy as a cure for a CEL, and the new computer thing is TOTALLY fishing for a pile of money from an unsuspecting customer.
Has either place told you why the light ACTUALLY CAME ON? Like, the exact code that was triggered? A gas cap with a worn-out gasket can cause the light to come on - repair cost, $20.
Don't walk, RUN from any shop that can't tell you why the light came on if it is still on when you take the car in. Which policy would seem to include that second dealer.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I was sooo spoiled by the 2001 conveniences, I would like to upgrade this 2003. Is it possible to safely add any of those features? I am now really missing my old car!
Any advice from those of you in-the-know?
Thanks!
But my gut instinct says: this is not going to be economically feasible. (well, maybe the clock) So allow me to offer some options therapy instead. FORGET about the clock! If you get the Toyota clock then you lose a much more valuble cubby hole. This hole is the best engineered hole in the automotive world! Not only does it have an inwardly slooped surface to prevent things falling out under acceleration, it has a specially textured grippy rubber mat that does the same thing! It holds the swipe card I use to get in and out of work and ITS NEVER FALLEN OUT! I got a cheap digital watch and put it in there. Accuarate to a couple of seconds every six months and has other features (stopwatch) the Toyota clock wont have that have come in handy. Allows full use of the cubby hole for other purposes.
Its probably possible to install an after market keyless/alarm system. I STRONGLY advise against it! My brothers 93 Honda Accord was totally screwed up electrically when he had one installed. My just purchased 99 Miata the PO installed one and removed it before selling it to me. He said it gave him nothing but trouble. I could talk all day about the trouble aftermarket alarm systems cause.
I just replaced the passanger side rearview mirror (manual) on my 01 ECHO with an aftermarket one for $55. As I recall Toyota wanted HUNDREDS just for the one MANUAL mirror. I would guess $500 just for two remote mirrors. Then of course there would be installation costs. It doable buy you will pay $$$.
A defosting rear window makes sense. Do a google search. You can put them on yourself but they are easily dammaged. A genuine Toyota window (replaced will be hundrededs I would imagine. I wouldnt do it but it would be an inconvience to say the least. Maybe Toyota wont be so much...
Generally it is best NOT to get things like PW PL etc etc. They are the first things to break and they cost $$$ to have fixed. It may interest you to know that in Germany it is only recently (late 1980s) theat Germans would even consider PW on their Mercedes. Crank winders last longer and are cheaper to fix. My wife spend $800 getting the drivers PW on her Accord fixed (several times to the shop)
Good Luck!
So let me go through your items one by one:
- clock: this is not too expensive, as it is already wired for it behind the panel. The clock itself is really easy to install - you could do it, or for $95 or less your dealer will do it (California labor prices). Now the clock itself will, believe it or not, cost you like $195 from the dealer, so I would check recyclers - most cars that end up there are because of being hit and totalled, and the clock will usually be intact, and will cost you like $20.
- remote mirrors - forget it! These were so rare in Echos that you will never find them at recyclers, and even if you do they are often damaged. New, from the dealer, they will easily cost you $400 for the set, and that is before you start to mess with the controls inside the car.
rear window defroster - mine is the same way, no defroster. I have never missed it, because the car is so small that running the defroster on the front window will clear all the windows in a matter of a few minutes and keep them clear. And I live near the ocean, so we have our share of moisture in the air. Now if you live in a super-humid area like the Gulf coast, I could see where you might want it. The glass itself is on the order of $300, again much much cheaper if you could find an intact piece at a recycler. However, you have to do the wiring inside the car for the switch I believe, which is a hassle, and adds a couple of hundred dollars if you have a shop do it.
keyless entry/alarm: if you have power locks, then you can buy the Toyota alarm system for around $250, which gives you both in one package. If you have the dealer install it (which I would recommend - it is no picnic, and needs to be programmed once it is in), that will be another $200 or so. If you don't already have power locks, then forget it - putting in keyless would be way expensive. Just get an aftermarket alarm from a stereo shop if you really want it. Should be able to get a decent but basic one for $200-300 installed.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I've looked at the maintenance manual that came with the car, but since the car is 3 years old with barely 4000 miles on it, I'm not sure what to do. Do I follow the maintenance schedule according to per miles or according to months/year?
The only thing I've done so far is change the oil... is there any other fluids or parts I should change or inspect? Would it be best to take the car into a Pepboys or something to have a whole overall inspection or would I be able to do all the stuff they do on my own without much difficulty? Any other safety advice would be greatly appreciate!
I suggest an oil and filter change every 4 months (assuming you dont drive more than 5k miles per change)
Other than that, sit down and drive it! Sounds like you got a nice car there!
Since most if not all of my drive is spent on the highway, I was at first weary reading the comments on how the car can feel unstable at high speeds, but this is where the importance of fuel efficiency REALLY came into play for me; plus it's a cute car. At around 85 mph it can feel a little unsettling, but heck it just serves as a reminder to slow down.
I rarely drive on the highway but the last time I did at 60-65 mpg I got something like 51 mpg. People make too much out of the crosswind problem. The ECHO handles very well indeed although 80 is about tops for me!
I average about 34 mpg in the warm months, slightly less during the winter. I change my oil every 4000-5000 miles. I wouldn't compromise on the oil changes. "Synthetic oil is a good choice if you have a high performance engine or if you live in an extremely cold climate, otherwise it provides no benefit (but no harm either)." (http://www.nordicgroup.us)
I'm about to schedule a 100,000 mile maintenance for this car. I am not expecting much but new front brakes and spark plugs. http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/media/townhall/webxicons/- emotorcons/emo_smiley.gif
Have your valve clearances been checked? if so i was wondering if you knew what they were? If they havent been checked and you plan to drive your ECHO for many more thousands of miles thats something you d want checked.
Based on oil analysis I could go much longer between changes. So far, the car uses no oil between changes. No topping up, NADA, ZIP.
My commute is 40 miles each way, mostly highway. My average MPG is 41.
Mine just crossed the 74K threshold, same fuel economy as yours and has no oil consumption either. But then, it has half the miles of yours...
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I am confident that with proper maintenance 500k miles is absolutely possible with the original engine and transmission.