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The fact that the TB has been around twice as long as the Endeavor may have somethign to do with the complaint number difference. The fact that ficuss is on this list may also have something else to do with the numbers, as so many responses here are counterpointing his posts. There may also be a sociographic difference between TB buyers and Endeavor buyers. One may be much more likely to participate in web forums on their automobiles. There would be a strong social correlation between how enthusiastic they are with their purchase and their interest in participating in on-line forums. If the typical purchaser of an Endeavor sees their vehicle as more utilitarian rather than have a passion for it, they would be less likely to participate here- for instance. The more complex a vehicle, the more likely there will be problems- this is almost a complete truism. A good example of this would be the Touareg. A fiercly complex (and magnificent) vehicle with mediocre reliability. But most of the things that go wrong with it, other cars don't even have! (If it only had the TB's 4.2L V6).
You couldn't be more accurate if you tried. The big difference between a proven complex design and the Tripletts is that the reliable complex design is de-bugged before it is thrust upon the public. The Tripletts could have instilled driving passion in me as well as many others were it not for the never ending barrage of service problems. The endless recalls and tsb's. From the VERY beginning with major suspension failures until now with the cooling fans the Tripletts have cooled those passions.
You're correct, the Tripletts have been around 2 more years than the Endeavors, and this will account for many of the posts. Responses to my posts have generated many replies, some have agreed some haven't. This is the point of having a discussion, to get feedback. We are not a bunch of lemmings. I am 55 years old and the TB had been the worst car I have ever owned to date. My parents 1959 Rambler was more reliable. As far as being more or less utilitarian, I don't get it. Is the TB more utilitarian with it's towing capability and truck like characteristics or is the Endeavor more utilitarian because of its' more car like ride and comfort?
Finally, what good are technology and gizmos when you are on the back of a flatbed tow truck.
You must first remove the entire front grill filler panel. This is the horizontal front wrap around that goes from the center of one headlight lens to the center of the other headlight lens. This part unsnaps at ten locations. Four on the top, two on each side under the top part of the headlight lens's, and two on the bottom edge. After removing the grill, find two pull up tabs on the top surface of the lens containing the burnt out bulb. One is under the fender lip and the other is along the top of the lens toward the radiator. Lift the two pull tabs. Now you can remove the lens enough so you can pry open the approx. 3 inch cover behind the bad bulb. Twist the bulb socket counterclockwise, remove bulb and socket from lens, and remove wiring plug from socket. It's not hard to do, it just takes some figuring out the first time. As a rule I don't like to force open anything, but these snaps are just as the name implies, a snap.
"Mitsubishi Motors Corp. is recalling 65,436 Endeavor sport utility vehicles because the parking brake may not work correctly.
The recall affects Endeavors from the 2004 and 2005 model years. NHTSA said a nut in the braking system may not be tightened properly, so the vehicle could roll if it is parked on a slope and the transmission isn't in "park.""
Looks like recalls affect all vehicles on the road.
ficuss, just happened to have bad luck with his TB's. I have always had bad luck with Chrysler products. Does that mean they are a horrible company? No, it just means it is not in the cards for me to buy from them. I love my TB. Yes, I have had a tail light recall and the fan clutch might be an issue to, but my dealer has been great and very co-operative with repairs. If I had the choice between any SUV and my 2004 TB, the Toyota Sequoia would be the only winner. That is only because I like the looks of it better as does my wife. I don't care what you tell me about quality. If the vehicle is not appealing, I am not going to buy it. I love the TB.
A lot of these posts are extreme as well for complaints. Some people expect these SUV's to drive like sports cars, and they are not designed to do that. It is a family vehicle and towing machine. Plain and simple. It might not be the best off road vehicle out there, it may have wind noise, and it may have a few quirks, but the triplets are for the soccer Moms who haul their kids to and from school. Every vehicle has issues. You could name any car or truck or SUV, and I could find someone complaining about it on the web.
This forum lets me learn about items that might be issues on my vehicle. I want to know about them, so I can get them repaired before my warranty ends. So far, there has been only two issues that stand out for me. The tail lights, which have a recall, and the fan clutch for the A/C. The latter issue seems to have been resolved by the TSB that has been posted here. Yea, it sucks for those out of warranty, but for me, this board is a God send.
I am a Chevrolet (GM) loyalist. My family has had way to many good cars from them to not be. So, if you are coming here to pimp some other SUV and tout that the TB sucks, I disagree. I do agree that the TB had issues, but the majority of those are fixed. I'd put my 2004 EXT against any SUV from the same year, and let's see which vehicle last longer. My money is on my Chevy.
Facing the engine bay from the front, is it located left, middle, or right ? Is any 'special tool' needed for bolts or screws in the removal/replacement process (you mention about removing sheet metal??) Thanks much.
Warm Air from vents (Sound familiar?)
Radiator leak after only 300 miles
Lift gate issue
Gear Oil leak/Powertrain noise
Wind Noise (Sound familiar?)
Mitsu vehicles have their problems to. You should always read up on a vehicle before buying it. I always hesitate to buy a first or second year model, because there is no feedback from consumers out there as to how the vehicle performs and what issues it has. My advice is to check out as many vehicle forums as you can before buying any car/truck/suv. It will help you make a sound decision on what you may or may not be getting yourself into.
troublesome. I expected more. Way more. Maybe I'm in the minority, but it will leave a bad taste in my mouth for years. I can't expect those of you with good ones to understand because yours are relatively trouble free. A 2 year old vehicle should not be rusting. The sway bar links should last more than 24K miles. The clutch fan shouldn't take 3+ years to figure out. Tail/brake lights and turn signals
were perfected many years ago. No complaints about the engine/tranny though.
Like I said, I expected more.
Of course people with problems will dominate this board. they are looking for solutions. Those w/o problems have no reason to post in most cases. Unless you want "Like, omygod, I drove the kids to the park last night. It was raining. Good thing I had 4 wheel drive or I would have been in the ditch for sure! This truck makes me feel so secure that I could answer my cell phone and dish out Cokes to the kids at the same time!"
Greg
I had professionally fuel injection cleaning 8K miles ago and I changed air and fuel filters at that time.
The P0171 would suggest the MAF sensor dirty or manifold leak. Also it is possible that the O2 sensor is getting bad.
However I think it is the injector that got dirty or sticky (rust?).
Checking fuel pressure and injectors balancing would be the next step. I read about it but never done it.
Any suggestions what else I could do?
Has anyone had similar problems and if so how they were fixed?
Thanks,
Walk4
Did I give bad advice? Has GM turned it around with these vehicles? Would advising someone to go ahead with getting one of these vs. say a 4runner be bad advice?
Thanks in advance...
There is no MAF in the TB. Today I got again the MIL with P0305.
It is happening when the engine is warming during my first 2 minutes of driving.
My O2 sensor was replaced at 34K.
Getting those infectors is not few minutes job and if I would decide to do it I will have all of them clean and check (rebalance).
GM in last few years is advertising 3 step maintenance induction cleaning and I read few paragraphs on cleaning with GM top engine cleaner that supposed to be very effective.
Today I tried to test the resistance on the injector harness connector, but I could not get conclusive reading on my analog device - have to buy digital.
Today I tried to get my engine rpm pass 4000 with shift lever set in park and I could not do it. I think this possibly could indicate O2 problems.
It looks like I would have to got to the basic – test the resistance on the injector harness connector, fuel pressure, Multec 2 injectors balance and O2 sensor. I’ve never done it before but there is always someday a first time.
Would anybody have a suggestions or comments regarding my problem.
Thanks,
Walk4
Not a problem - when in P or N they are all limited to not rev above about 4,000 RPM.
1) The rear door exterior handles on my 2003 Envoy XL sometimes won't open the doors. My dealer tells me this is common and there is no fix. They tell me to pull up on the end of the handle instead of the middle. This does improve the performance but still I have to apply a lot of upward force to get the door to open. Has anyone else experienced this?
2)I have over 80,000 miles on my 2003 Envoy XL. I have never reset the average fuel economy meter. After a weekend of around town city driving the average will drop to around 17. After a 100 mile highway trip the average will go up to 21 or higher. You would think the average would not fluctuate so much with such a base of miles if it is averaging from day one. I don't think this is the case because a limited amount of miles has such an effect on the overall average. According to the manual, if you don't reset the meter, the average is calculated from the last time it was reset. Does anyone know how the average MPG meter really works? Is it just averaging from the recent past; like the last X amount of miles?
50 degrees !! Augh.
I shut off vehicle, restarted, shut off hvac system, restarted...let truck run for awhile to see if it would adjust itself...no difference. Is there something that needs to be reset after changing out that sensor ?
Thanks.
The engine is just a bit rough and shaky at the first 3 minutes and after that no problems. I do not feel any misfire.
I wish I could have Tech 2 scanner to check the balance, unfortunately this baby is just too much.
Would anyone have a suggestion for good fuel injection test tools that are reasonable in price and where I can buy them?
Thanks,
Walk4
Also low fuel pressure was listed as a possible reason to set this DTC.
Starting with the 2006 4200 I6, they get a MAF sensor. Seems GM Powertrain has been doing a little tweaking... the new 291 HP spec isn't just juggling the numbers for the new SAE rating method (which for 2006 has caused most of the imports to reduce their exaggerated power claims).
VORTEC 4200 4.2L I-6 (LL8)
2006 model year summary
• Increased horsepower and torque outputs
• Higher 10.3:1 compression ratio
• Improved air flow
• Mass air flow sensor
• Improved A.I.R. system
• Improved ignition coils
• Piston rod squirters
Among other changes...
The Vortec 4200’s compression ratio increased to 10.3:1
Improved performance from increased airflow into and through the engine.A larger (38.7 mm) intake valve and larger (33.5 mm) exhaust valve allow more air to flow through, and the camshaft also provides more lift to allow the valves to stay open longer.
Mass air flow (MAF) sensor (replacing a previous speed density fuel control system) more accurately measures air flow into the engine, eliminating variability in a number of conditions including changes in altitude and temperature, and allows more precise fuel and spark response. The MAF is lightweight and has a modular design, using an integrated intake air temperature sensor.
Any other significant Trailblazer/Envoy changes for '06?
I FIND THAT YOU NEED TO LIFT THE HANDLES A BIT HIGHER THAN YOU MIGHT EXPECT> its usually my kids that can"t open the doors but i can every time>
A more annoying issue is when the doors fail to unlock with the auto unlock feature
What is your opinion on the average MPG meter? Mine fluctuates widely even though it's never been reset in over 80,000 miles.
Those trip computers were never intended to go that long without reset. They are made to reset each filling of the gas tank. Mine justs a lot the first 50 to 75 miles if I am in town and pooring the power to it all the time. If I baby it, I don't see that problem. Now on the institanious readout of MPG it is jumping all over the place as you speed up or coast. Just reset it each fillup and see how it goes. By the end of the tank it should be very close to what you would get if you do the math yourself. As a matter of fact the few times I checked it myself the computer was less than I figured by hand. I think part of that is I can't measure exactly how much gas I put in as gas station pumps vary. Also think the factory errors on the safe side so if you do the math yourself you will get a little better. :shades:
The ambient air temperature sensor mounts underhood and can be affected by city traffic, by idling, and by restarting a hot engine. Therefore, the HVAC control module filters the value of the ambient air temperature sensor for temperature display. The ambient air temperature value is updated under the following conditions:
Condition- Display
At start up with the engine off less than 2 hours- Displays last stored temperature
At start up with the engine off more than 2 hours- Displays real-time temperature
Engine coolant temperature is less than 28°C (50°F) above the ambient air temperature- Displays real-time temperature
Vehicle speed above 32 km/h (20 mph) for a minimum of 80 seconds- Displays real-time temperature
Vehicle speed above 72 km/h (45 mph)- Displays real-time temperature
Sensor reading is less than the last displayed value- Displays real-time temperature
To update the ambient air temperature display on the HVAC control module, perform the following procedure:
1- Turn ON the ignition.
2.-Simultaneously press the MODE, FRONT DEFROST and REAR DEFROST switches.
I can't even imagine how that could be done on an inline 6. And I wouldn't want it anyway.
- feel as if the cost of gasoline is significantly driving up their commuting costs (no pun intended)
- have been impressed with their vehicles' gas mileage
Please respond to jfallon@edmunds.com no later than Thursday, August 25, 2005 with your daytime contact info, year/make/model of vehicle, city of residence and city of employment.
Thanks for your consideration,
Jeannine Fallon
Corporate Communications
Edmunds.com
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Where do you get vehicle sales numbers? I've been looking for them everywhere, but it seems you have to subscribe to an expensive service like Ward's to get them. No?
Interesting list of changes for 06. Why do you think they would need "piston rod squirters?" And won't 10.3 to 1 compression ratio require premium fuel?
Another question ... any idea whether the bigger front sway bar on the Saab 9-7X will fit the Trailblazer/Envoy?
marketing report for car and truck sales
Pick sedan, truck, SUV (etc...)
Then select the "sales volume" link to show the numbers
--jay
As per the 4200 I6 summary of changes for 2006...
"Piston rod oil squirters-
The piston, inside the cylinder bore of the engine block, transfers energy through the connecting rod to the crankshaft. For improved durability and quietness the piston rod is now drilled with a tiny (less than 1/8th mm) hole, which allows oil to be sprayed on the cylinder wall, providing a cushioning layer on the sides of the piston which rides on the film of oil. The oil is originally pumped into the crankshaft, whose journals have cross-drilled holes. As the crankshaft rotates, pumping oil through the journals, the oil is fed from the journals through the piston rod bearing into the piston rod itself. Its open orifice then allows the oil to be sprayed into the cylinder wall."
"Increased compression ratio-
The Vortec 4200’s compression ratio increased to 10.3:1 as a result of changes to its piston profile, which lowered the volume in the combustion chamber. Even with its higher compression ratio, the engine continues to maximize fuel economy by allowing customers to use regular-grade fuel."
"10.3:1 compression ratio delivers the seemingly incompatible benefits of high compression and regular-grade fuel"
Pretty amazing what they can do with electronics to control things like cam and spark timing, and fuel delivery, and make a 10.3:1 compression engine operate on regular gas with no problems!
Don't know about the Saab front bar... have to take a look at one sometime to see if it is mounted different or ?? Probably with the correct mounting brackets and bushings, and whatever else is different, it could be retrofitted. In 2004 GM did change the front bar size and attachment to the chassis on the TB/Envoys.
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As for the smell, it sounds like what I get on long, steep grades and that is nomal as well UNLESS it's something like leaked oil, or aother fluids burning off your engine, or exhaust manifold.
I don't know what constitutes a "gas guzzler", but I wouldn't put the triplettes in that catagory.
I read few articles/discussions that decarbonizing using GM top engine cleaner was very effective in eliminating engine knocks. I've never done it myself. I read that this stuff is nasty and they were using it in a spray or can.
Also I found that the GM top engine cleaner when mixed 5 to 10% with gasoline can be used to clean injectors with special fuel injection canister tool. It supposed to be very effective.
Check http://www.gmtechlink.com/
Walk4