Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

2k_impala_ls

The way the GM warranties work now is that it adds to the existing age/mileage
at time of purchase of the warranty. Mine will be 3 years old in 2 days so I maxed out the years and add 40k to my existing 18.5k so I end up with 8yrs/58.5k. That is how it adds up.

cck426

My trailblazer ext had a similar problem.

dealer did the following;

1. update computer, i went to pick it up and it did not start in the lot.

2. replace battery, i went to pick it up and it did not start in the lot, again.

3. replace ignition switch, ok

wizman

I have a 2003 Ext TB that has an Exhaust Squeak/Rattle only at idle after being warmed up. You can't hear it with the windows up. It's really noticeable while waiting in a drive thru line with the window down. Found this TSB on alldata.com:

04-07-30-002 JAN 04 A/T, Exhaust - Rattling Noise From Under the Vehicle

Anybody know what this TSB addresses? From my informal testing I think the noise is generated where the exhaust pipe hooks onto the exhaust manifold.

Thanks
Frank

tblazed

I drove an 05 LT TB, and the A/C was still poor.

Most likely the reason is, up to June 2005, all of them going back to the 2002 models have the old design fan clutch.

As per the bulletin- "Technicians are to replace the EV fan clutch with a new design part, P/N 15293048, on vehicles built before June 2005.Vehicles built in June 2005 may already have the updated EV fan clutch and it will not need to be replaced."

I like that.. "MAY already have.."... really assuring.

dllfnz

Hi was just wondering if you found out the reason for surging. Is it an Envoy?I brought my 2004 Envoy in last Thurs. and they updated the software for the PCM. Well I had to put it back in shop today for it was surging again when I left for lunch. Would very much appreciate it if you could let me know for my check engine light isnt even coming on. :sick:

60hzpush

It has a V8, i will try 2nd, Thats a good idea...

60hzpush

The dealer did high speed force balance the tires and the driveshaft. They also took the wheels off while on the lift ands it still vibrated

01_hoe

May be time to seriously consider pursuit of a buyback.

gmcman

Try 3rd also, when in 3rd take note when the converter locks up. You may need to accelerate past your vibration point and let the locked converter slowly come down to the problem speed. These vehicles easily come out of lockup without much feedback, just feather the gas and make sure the RPM's remain steady.

60hzpush

I tried the vehicle in 3-2nd it didint vibrate. My guess is its still the driveshaft. I'm just so over this vehicle, i didnt pay all this money to have it into the dealer every month, Or worry about it breaking down on a trip. I filled with consumer protection and the state's attorny office as well as with lemon law. I just want out.

gmfan

Regarding the vibration concern: Since day one, my 02 TB has had a slight "droning" sound or slight vibration in the 45-65 mph range while in 4th gear (drive) My RPM's have never remain steady like a true lockup should be doing in this speed range, and I estimate the RPM's are flunctuating 200 RPM's (you can see it flunctuate on the tach). When I go in 3rd gear, the RPM's are steady and the lockup is true. When I first bought the vehicle, I took it to the dealership and he said this was normal, but I knew he was lying. We took another 02 TB off the lot for a test drive and guess what...it did not flunctuate. To make a long story short, the dealership never showed interest in trying to fix mine and I have driven 70K miles with no problems. Again, my vibration is very slight (hardly noticeable), and it has not gotten worse over time. I think the average person would not even notice, but I am picky about things and do notice it. I am actually surprised it has not gotten worse over time.

-gmfan

wapwap

On my 02 TB (27K - new engine at 13K) I no longer can open the liftgate/rear hatch more than 1/4 open. It seems the housing to the middle taillight on top of the rear hatch has dislodged somewhat and has caused the hinge for the liftgate/rear hatch to sit on top of the pin that it normally should rotate around. Im told that this is not covered under the Extended GM warranty which seems strange because they have a service bulletin describing on how to correct the issue. It requires shaving down the housing (assuming it is not damaged) then repainting, re assembling, etc. The current estimate is around $300 from the dealer to repair this, which to me seems like should still covered. Has anyone experienced this and had to cover the costs? Does anyone have the service bulletin number or other info on this repair and if this should be covered under the GM Extended plan. Thanks for any info.

Kirstie_H

Don't forget tonight's member-to-member chat - it's open mic night, so come and discuss whatever's on your mind.

6-7pm PT/9-10pm ET. Drop by for live chat with other members. Hope you can join us!

kirstie_h

psobkiewicz

http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=15&article_id=9264

gmfan

Triplets would have faired better than the Explorer for sure. Also, would have beaten the Toureg and the Montero. The Pathfinder and 4-runner would have been close. CR should factor price more heavily...$46K for a Toureg, that is ridiculous!!! I am not surprised the Jeep had the highest marks. I owned a 96 GC V-8 with Quadra-trac I with AWD, and that thing never got stuck, not to mention it was a torque monster. I used to pull out my buddies' vehicles (Explorer, Pathfinder's, 4-Runners, Range-Rover) when they got stuck. When it came to off-road, the Jeep is the best, especially from the factory. But I no longer off-road, and the TB is just fine. If I needed that kind of capability, I would have bought another GC. That was a decent comparison by CR in my opinion, but I agree, the triplets should have been included that test. Knowing them though, they would have given the triplets low remarks, which is a shame.

-gmfan

gmcman

gmfanAs long as the dealer noted your lockup concern in 4th they should still honor the repair. The lockup in 4th usually occurs at a higher speed but definately by 60 or 65.60 HZ The driveshaft spins with the wheels at any given road speed and remains the same regardless of engine RPM. If it does not vibrate in 2nd or 3rd you may have an engine harmonic problem. I would say rev it up in park to the problem RPM but it may need a load on the crank to duplicate the vibration. Engine harmonics are tricky to duplicate because they need all the right variables at the right time to duplicate the symptom. Did they ever change the torque converter? Those can cause a vibration at lockup if a vane is broken or something is out of whack. If you are going up a steep hill at 65 will it vibrate? Reason I ask is the trans will be at a higher stall than level ground. Sounds like a motor issue but eliminate the other possible items first. Just keep on the dealer, good luck.

gmfan

gmcman - Yes, it has to be under a load to duplicate. Park or Neutral will not work and it only does it in 4th. It actually does in under slight acceleration during torque lockup in the 45-65 mph range - a long small hill is perfect to duplicate - not enough to cause a downshift, but enough load to duplicate the problem EVERY SINGLE TIME. No, the dealer never did change out the torque converter- they said it was not severe enough to justify, but did change out some kind of a transmission sensor that supposedly is linked to the torque converter. They did this when I only had 700 mi on the vehicle back in 2002, but I could tell no difference. I even had them change out the PCM around this time and it did not help either. I have never had a torque converter problem on my Durango and Jeep Grand Cherokee. The vehicle must be on a slight load, in fourth gear, in the RPM range of 1400 to 1900. What do you think?

motowntblazer

I have just hit the 90,000 mile mark on my '02 T-Blazer and in general I have had a good experience. I have experienced the fan clutch roar on occasion, but it has not caused any problems other than the initial "what the heck is that." I have encountered a small annoyance that I have seen mentioned in previous posts: My exterior temp reads 50 no matter what. It used to be perfect, about 5000 miles ago it began to be erratic, now it has just given up. I read through as many posts as I could find and assume that the sensor has died. I could not find if anyone had any luck fixing it without a $200 trip to the dealer. (I just don't care that much about outside temps). Also, I just noticed that my rear hatch no longer locks? Any thoughts? :confuse: Glad to find this forum and get answers and maybe give some advice (what little I have). :shades:

havasusteve

Can anyone tell me the proper operating temp for a 2002 trailblazer with a V-6?

n7don

There really isn't any one correct answer. The operating temp. is dependant on engine load, speed, out side air temp, etc. However if you are routinely seeing temps much over 210F there's possibly something not functioning right. I have an 03 Envoy with an I-6 (V-6 isn't an option) In the Phoenix area with the temp. in the 110 range my gage rarely goes over two needle widths past 210 in any kind of driving. I've ck'd the gage vs. the eng. coolant temp. sensor and it's within 2 degs of argreement.

gmcman

I'm not sure what gears are in your vehicle but I have the 4:10 and when I'm on my way home slowing down from about 50 I have a hill before my street and I slow to about 40ish and my converter stays locked up until the load and throttle position finally release it. During that time my RPM's are around 1500 and the motor is lugging and makes a droning sound right up to the unlock of the converter, this sound is normal because the I6 likes to rev and not being a V8 has less grunt down low. Just want to point this out if this is the sound you are hearing but probably not. Try this... duplicate your uphill climb noise and we'll see if the noise your hearing is not the airbox under a high throttle setting. Take the 3 screws out from your airfilter cover and remove the cover. There is a little curved piece of plastic pipe that has a flared end near the headlight and mounts to the airfilter cover which is the intake pipe. Re-assemble the cover but remove the little curved pipe, this routes some of the air through the cover which is an intake muffler and greatly reduces air intake noise. If your droning noise has worsened then you know what the awful noise is, if not then we need to suspect the trans. Like I said earlier it's easier and (time consuming) to filter out the small possibilities first.

havasusteve

Thank you for your help. Before my girlfriend had her accident we saw no variation in the temp. It always stayed at 210. Then when we gat the truck back from the body shop it started show temps in the 210 to 240 and more near the 240 side. We then took it to "chevy" and told them it was overheating. They called said it was the fan clutch (with extended warrenty) will only be 100 bucks.So we had them do that. On the way home the same problem occurred. Called them back and told them the problem had not changed. We have to bring it in monday again. They did make the comment that the mechanic drove it for 12 miles and it didnt overheat and that 235 wasnt that out of line. I didnt tell them how hot it was running but to check it. With the new part in and it does the same thing, why did they replace a part when in their own words was 235 was ok?
Maybe trying to make a buck or two?
havasusteve

n7don

Well 235 may be ok pulling a 5000 lb trailer out of Death Valley! Ask the dealer to take a ride over the same route in another TB.
Since it was ok before the accident, what body/repair work was done.... and could those repairs have any connection to the problem?
I would suggest making a record of the condition(s) that produce those high temps.
You live in Lake Havasu? If so, it does get hot along the Colorado!

tblazed

when we got the truck back from the body shop it started show temps in the 210 to 240 and more near the 240 side.

Was the radiator damaged? Did they replace it? I guess it was an independant body shop that did the collision repairs since you say you later took it to "chevy". If the body shop replaced it, did they use the correct OEM part?

With the new part in and it does the same thing, why did they replace a part when in their own words was 235 was ok?
Maybe trying to make a buck or two?

Yes they do get paid to do the work, but I would think since you told them it didn't go over 210° before, they went ahead and performed the repair based on that complaint. When I had mine in for the last of several warranty attempts to fix the A/C back in Jan just as my warranty ran out, (a few months before they released the "real" fix for my problem that they now want $600 to fix), the service writer told me the number one failure on Trailblazers is the fan clutch, so they probably honestly expected it to fix your problem if all else checked out OK.

jojo2002

I was wondering if you believe someone could change that actuator themselves? If so do you know where to locate this particular one at. If not how much did it cost at the dealership. Thanks

cameokid

If you have one in good condition and would be willing to part with it, please respond here in the forum..

Thanx

bobed2121

What is the recommendation as far as mileage for the plug change? Has anyone attempted this yet? I assume they are are on the exhaust side of the engine. I looked [quickly] but I didn't see any wires.

tblazed

Remove the air intake box on top of the engine and you will see the tops of 6 individual coils, one for each plug. Remove one bolt per coil, pull coil up and out, and there's the plug recessed down in a hole in the valve cover. Front one is a little more difficult to get out because of a wiring harness that's in the way, but unclipping-loosening the harness and moving a little bit will gain enough room to get the front #1 coil out. Plugs are good to 100,000 miles by the way as per your Owner's manual. If there's no misfire and no Service Engine light coming on, old plugs are fine unless you are pushing high miles or just want to replace as preventive maintenance.

allenr

Just droped my Bravada off for the A/C fix. Showed the service writer the TSB # and he entered it on the work order. Just in time too my extended warranty is up in 4,000 miles

Will let everyone know how it go's

Allen

jfarkwarth

I have began to hear a noise that sounds a sort of like a CV joint clicking in the front of my 02 Bravada. It only has 33k. I say it sort of sounds like a CV joint because my past experience is that CV joints will click throughout the entire turn that you are making and this noise only happens periodically. Does anyone know of what this may be? :confuse:

tblazed

Definitely let us know if the new clutch works. I was advised to "just go ahead and pay" the $600+ and let the dealer repair mine, and then try to get reimbursed by GM, maybe they would cover it, (maybe not) depending whether there is some secret warranty policy the dealer isn't aware of. VERY FRUSTRATING to say the least, to have had this problem addressed several times while it was in warranty with no results, THEN after almost 4 summers trying this and that in various attempts to work around the real problem, they supposedly finally come up with a valid fix well after most '02s are out of warranty.

Anyone inclined to do so can search this forum and find several messages I posted in the past three years while I was still in warranty. I suspected all along from my observations that high pressure cutout was happening because of high temperatures and not enough air moving through the condenser, causing the A/C compressor to shut off and AC to not cool.

imadad2

tblazed,

Not to throw gas in the fire, but check this link out.

www.gmtechlink.com/images/issues/arcv_pdf/7_02_e.pdf

The issue states on page three that "at idle it can take up to 2 minutes for the system to engage." If you notice, this issue came out July 2002. So GM knew about this from day one.

What genius thought that waiting two minutes for A/C would be a good thing in summer heat? Like my Dad used to always say ... "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." My Prizm takes less than 15 seconds to kick out cold air. 2 minutes to 15 seconds. Hmmmm ...

I am trying to follow this discusion, but I am a little confused. The fan clutch will be replaced free of charge under warranty, or do I have to pay for it if I want the new and improved fan clutch?

tblazed

I am sure the reason I was told while it was still in warranty that they just work that way and there was nothing else they could do to make it work like it should, is because of that two minute delay of the fan clutch engaging. "They all do that."

As I read it, all new fan clutches after June or July are the new design clutches that have more minimum engagemment (the new ones don't almost stall or freewheel to the point you can see the individual fan blades turning while it's idling, like the original design) and also have faster response to PCM commands. If you are still in warranty the new design is what you should get.

One thing the bulletin does say that may concern some... "The new EV fan clutch has an increased minimum operating fan speed and an improved response time. Additional engine cooling fan noise can be expected with the updated PCM software calibrations."

So it's a trade off - more fan noise for A/C that works. Or, a quiet fan with A/C that cuts out when it's hot. Take your choice.

Or as Lee Iacocca says... "If you can find a better car, BUY IT". After 38 years of buying GM, I may take him up on that advice next time.

dmathews3

Or as Lee Iacocca says... "If you can find a better car, BUY IT". After 38 years of buying GM, I may take him up on that advice next time.

Hey they all have problems, Get a Toyota and take the big $$$ gamble that you will end up with oil sludge as T don't know nothing, or their Hybrid that sometimes just stops and refuses to run leaving one guy in the middle of a highway hoping no one came over a hill and hit him or the guy who had his stop in a shaddy part of town with his 2 little kids. He wants to sell it right now, I bet he will trade problems with you. At least he won't have to worry about his kids not being safe. Maybe hot for a couple extra minutes until the air hits full blast.

2k_impala_ls

Have you Checked Ebay?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6533982213&category=86946&ssPageName=WD- 1V&rd=1

tblazed

I did say "may take him up on that..." Yep they all have their problems.

GM can still redeem themselves on this issue though, with a policy to cover the clutch job for those of us that have poor A/C performance. They could also easily pull all the records of those that have had A/C cooling issues and repair attempts, and send out authorization letters to get the things fixed properly. All that high pressure cycling can't be good good for the compressor either.

cameokid

Thanks 2k! got it!

I thought about checking ebay earlier, then got distracted...

BTW, my 03 TB has finally been behaving this year....only repair has been the sway bar...

60hzpush

isuzu is buying back my vehicle.

imadad2

"So it's a trade off - more fan noise for A/C that works. Or, a quiet fan with A/C that cuts out when it's hot. Take your choice. "

So I will now have something that will drown out all that wind noise? Cool (pun intended) :P

locomo

That's great news!
What was the mileage deduction or any other charges?

gmfan

Well, I am calling GM (Chevy) about the AC issues. I am going to be polite and play dumb regarding the new fan clutch to see if I can get some money assistance. My dealer has my AC woes documented. It is 99 degrees F today here in GA, with a heat index of 114. I know GM will probably not recall this item since it is not a "safety" issue, but I think it is a safety issue when I try to run pedistrians over in the parking lot while trying to get this thing in gear and moving! Someone on this forum recommended reving up the engine. Ha! That does not work on my vehicle and I need engine load and air moving through mine. Please GM, I am melting. Someone on this forum may reply to my comments that there are people working everyday out in the sun (i.e. construction workers). Well, I have news for you (if you are out there), I wear a suit everyday and I am in and outside constantly. I probably start my vehicle ten times a day and each time, it is the same thing bull. I prespire, then cool down just in time for me to have a slight "sweat" odor for my appointment. A real nice impression!!

I will let all know my results with GM customer service.

gmfan

I had a good conversation with Chevy Customer Service and they opened a case number, but they refute a TSB # on their system, which ticks me off. They contacted my dealer and of course, the dealer welcomes another chance to look it over. But my dealer is behind, I called their parts department and all they have in stock is the old fan clutch. In fact, the parts department told me they have put in three of these old ones in this week! Now we find an obvious communication problem b/w GM and its dealers. The parts guy was really interested in the new fan clutch, probably because he realizes those customers will be coming back with a/c problems still not resolved. I am going to take the TSB # and Part # to them when I get a chance in the next week or so.

Allenr, Allenr did you get your new fan clutch installed and is it working? Please let us know

allenr

Got my truck back yesterday with the new fan clutch, my work order shows the new part number . The mechanic said my old fan clutch had quit engaging…that could be why it was so quite!! :sick:

He also said that lack of air flow was causing the condenser temps. to rise shutting down the A/C compressor every few seconds.

The service side of my dealer is very good, just told them the problem and gave them the TSB and got it taken care of. As we all know 2002 models have had many TSB’s and a few recalls. I have most if not all done to my truck. If the dealer had not cooperated I would probably be missing more than a few of them.

One more plug for my dealer, even thought this truck has been in for service more than any other car or truck I’ve had. The service side of the dealership has kept me very happy for the 4 + years I’ve owned my Bravada.

I can just hear the fan now if I turn the radio off, I know that sitting in traffic on a summer day it use to engage all the way and make a laud roar. I don’t remember hearing that sound lately. We have been having 95+ outside temps here in San Diego County, I should be able to do some tests for A/C performance and cooling problems. That’s if I can get the truck away from my wife first :mad:

Just check the part number on gmpartsdirect.com and its $ 165.66 + shipping. I would try to install it myself for savings like that over the dealer.

Allen

ross1962

isuzu is buying back my vehicle.

So, what are you going to buy instead? Decided yet?

tjcishere1

Well it has been a while since i posted a message, but my truck has 40,000 miles on it thought it was getting its bugs worked out but i guess not. I took it in for some noise in the front end and also uneven tire wear drivers side inside of tire they told me i need new ball joints lower which is covered under my extended warranty. i also need front brakes and they say they cant cut the rotors the rotors are too thin they say its the first brake job on the truck they never been cut before, infact the brakes were not even down to the sensors still had some meat on the pads. Anyone else run into this problem?

gmfan

Interesting, my dealer quoted me $331.31 for the new fan clutch which he said he could get within 24 hours of placing the order. Thanks for the advice to check with gmpartsdirect since it is nearly $200 cheaper. Now if I could just figure out if I need the new fan clutch or if my problem is related to the high pressure cutout TSB???

Darn these problems :mad: You'd think their dang engineers would know how to design a competent a/c system after making them for over 50 years!!! If you goofed liked this in any other industry, you would be out of business

dsr9

I guess I'm confused, what does the fan clutch have to do with the a/c cooling problem? I have an 03 model with original clutch, and only hear the fan turn on for about 5 seconds when I first start the engine. Other than that I never hear it turn on while driving and the a/c always works great. On the other hand, I rarely drive in stop and go traffic on hot days which could explain why the fan doesn't need to be on.

60hzpush

still working out the details. it started at 18K so I'm sure there some depreciation.
I'm just glad to get out from under it.

allenr

You have to have some cooling air moving across the evaporator or it will over heat. The a/c compressor will then shut down with an over-temp or over-presser.

The new fan cutch is set to move more air at idle and respond faster to PMC commands.

Allen

tblazed

Actually it's the condenser in front of the radiator that transfers the heat outside. Evaporator is inside doing the cooling with the cabin air flowing through it.

dsr9 ... Compare it to a home A/C system. There is a big fan in the outside unit (compressor and condenser coil) that draws air through the condenser coil. If the condenser coil gets clogged up with dirt, leaves and debris restricting the air flow, or if the fan motor dies, the A/C will not cool properly, pressure will go too high, the compressor will over heat, an internal circuit breaker in the compressor will cycle it off to protect it from high pressure and temperatures. Apply that to our TBs- not enough air moving, condenser temp gets too high and over pressure occurs, high pressure sensor and PCM shuts down the compressor until pressure goes down, then starts the cycle over ( and over) until enough air finally gets moving.

Anxious to hear some reviews of this new clutch fix, if it really works.