Options
Help Me Select a Wagon
This discussion has been closed.
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
The Forester is taller and the bikes will fit it upright if you remove the front wheels and lower the seat.
-juice
Thanks!
Julie
IMHO, the important dimension is whether you can place the stroller in the car fore to aft, on it's side or on one of the wheeled edges. This frees up the maximum amount of room when you need to go shopping, on vacation, or whatever.
With our stroller, the Volvo failed, the Subie could do it, but the stroller would touch the rear glass (I feared for the defroster grid's longevity), and the Passat did it without any touching. Ding, ding, ding - we have a winner! The plethora of airbags and other safety features swung the vote further. We just took a trip a few weeks ago, and the way-back held 6 suitcases and the stroller, winter coats, and a bag of gifts without overflowing into the seating area or blocking our vision. All with over 31 mpg on the interstate.
YMMV. Good luck with your search. Enjoy parenthood...it's a very special and very fleeting time.
The A4 is a very nice car. If you make use of the AWD, I'd say perhaps go for it. I'll explain the 'perhaps': we had a Golf and an older Subaru wagon when out child was 0-4 yrs old. The Golf was newish and more reliable, so we ended up taking it on vacations and longer trips, as well. Now we have a Passat GLX 4Motion, so the longer trips are with that. But at 7years, our son still fits very comfortably in the back of the Golf, also with additional luggage etc.
So ..., if you think you may buy a larger wagon eventually (next 3-7 yrs, perhaps in addition), I think the A4 is perfect. If you are just smitten with its looks but could care less about the AWD, a new Jetta or Passat wagon are about the same price as the used A4 wagon you describe. Other, slightly more practical options with AWD include the Passat and the Forester or Legacy models.
BTW, I can fit two large (touring/racing) bikes plus a kid's bike in my Passat wagon, and my child can still sit in the back.
- D
JMO
You can even "sport" up the Sable with a floor shifter in their top-o-the-line model, if that's your thing. The only down side is that they depreciate rapidly. But this isn't a problem if you keep your vehicles for a long time. This could even work to your advantage if you buy a two year old model.
One other thing I would recommend: leather upholstery. Leater seats clean up easier than velour (very important if you plan to bring food/bottles into the car).
Do take your stroller and car seat with you. On the Legacy, we can fit the stroller in transversely (side-to-side) and still have room left for a platform where we can change a diaper.
As a bonus, the rear gate acts as a rain shelter.
Check out an L/SE wagon. For the price of a used A4 Avant, you'll get AWD, a moonroof, CD, ABS, and 16" alloys. New, with a 5 year warranty.
-juice
I can do the transverse (versus longitudinal) placement in our Passat as well, but I find that I lose more space at the triangular gap between the bottom of the stroller and the back of the seat. The longitudinal orientation was the most space efficient for us, and still plenty of room for a diaper changing station.
Are you using a double stroller, or is one of your children out of that stage already?
We're now using an infant carrier that snaps into a stroller. That stroller converts for toddlers. We have a front pack "Snugly" as well, but the baby's outgrowing it.
Then we have a back pack carrier, for when he gets bigger. Our 3 year old usually walks but we just got a used double stroller from my cousin.
Whew. Any and all of these fit easily in the Legacy. To be honest, they fit in the Forester, too, you just have to be a little more creative.
The A4, though? It's almost a big hatchback vs. a true wagon. The Passat is bigger and the rear more squared off. IMO it's better suited for kid duty.
-juice
However, if you are comparing these against Audi, Subaru, VW, or other Euro wagons I really don't think its a fair comparison. The Ford products give you a lot of car (size-wise) for the money but they are not in the same category in terms of available features (AWD in particular), creature comfort, and styling (personal opinion). The Taurus / Sable are also not necessarily more reliable than the other vehicles either.
When we were shopping for a new wagon I looked at American choices and just didn't see anything currently available that offered the combination of size, styling, AWD, features, safety, and reliability that was available in European and Japanese vehicles.
Granted, I paid quite a bit more for my Passat 4Motion wagon than a Taurus, but I plan on keeping this vehicle for 10-15 years and it has everything, and a bit more, that I was looking for. I would have considered the Subaru Outback H6 VDC wagon more seriously if the whole dealer experience hadn't been as unpleasant as it was. The purchase of the Passat was quick, simple, and painless from the VW dealer.
The one thing that bothered me the most was the shape of the rear door, it made getting in and out, or loading a child seat, difficult. The wagon's door tapers down in a similar fashion. Head room in the back was tight for me, though the wagon is probably better in that regard.
The previous generation wagon actually had a square window over the rear door and made getting in and out easier. My dad has one, and the 3rd row is a rare features nowadays. But his wagon has been very unreliable.
The funny thing is that he ended up buying an Outback after seeing my Subie. He still has the Taurus but it's his beater car now. He's sunk too much money into it to get rid of it.
-juice
Well, I see you are going through all the permutations of transporting children! We used an infant carrier that snapped into a stroller and also into a base that remained in the car. An extra base for our Honda made life convenient. We never went through the snuggly or back pack stage (surprisingly, since I always suspected my wife thought of me as a beast of burden)! A double stroller sounds ideal for you.
The rear doors on our Passat wagon are squared off at the back. It was the first thing I noticed when we did a trial run on the car seat. It's like gaining 6 or 8 inches of extra room and a real "back saver".
Westrid,
You're certainly right that the Taurus isn't in the same category as the others, but perhaps not option that they considered. I guess it depends on your needs, demands, and wallet!
As we all said in here, it is good to take a close look at the space in the wagons, perhaps bring something like a stroller, and see it fits and how much you need. Some people like to go bigger than what they really need, others like to get by with as little as possible.
Cargo space in the A4 Avant is smallish - but it is much more than what I have in my Golf, and actually almost identical to the space in the Forester. It is also nicely squared off at the bottom with no wheel well intrusion. The A4 wagon holds more than what you would think from its outside looks.
If we got by with a Golf with a kid in the first 4 years, a Jetta or A4 or Forester will do for many - but of course not all - people.
- D
No way an A4 could do that, but I bet the floor space is similar, and if you're not stacking items, yeah, it probably offers similar capacity.
The Outback/Legacy have a bit of an angle to the rear window (like the A4), but the floor space is bigger than the Forester, and the shock towers are not very intrusive at all.
It all depends on what you want to haul. If you look at CR's biggest box test, Forester beats out even some mid-size SUVs, because the low floor/high ceiling really optimizes the space for tall boxy items.
-juice
However, the A4 is wider and has more floor space, with the total cargo volume being almost identical.
Per their respective web sites, the Forester has 29.6 to 32 cubic feet (depending on model), the A4 has 27.8. Rear seats folded, the numbers are 61.4 to 64.1 vs. 63.7.
I don't want to beat this topic to death, and there may not be too many cross-shoppers. I just find it interesting to compare the cargo area of these smallish wagons. I believe manufacturers have made much progress in recent years packaging a lot of usable space in what looks like a comparatively small car from the outside. Some people may underestimate just how much space there is!
- D
So I am wondering what I am missing. Why is there no one here even mentioning the V40?
I am wondering
The VWs/Audis do come with side and curtain air bags standard, and have several additional safety features (like ESP available very inexpensively). I don't consider the V40 as one of the better Volvos. It is small, about the size of the Jetta but with even less rear legroom and less cargo space with rear seats up.
Many view it as nothing more but a rebadged Mitsubishi/Ford. That reputation and its small size may be reasons it is not much discussed here.
- D
I just had to comment on this earlier statement. People so often misuse the word 'quality' for 'luxury features'. Quality is the ability of the product to reliably meet the customer requirements over the entire expected life of the product. It has nothing to do with desired features.
By any measure, Volvo is not a high quality automobile. Subsystems fail early and are very expensive to fix. Those are design problems and quality problems. I loved the seats in my Volvo 850, beautiful and comfortable, but the leather wore quickly and the seat mechanism quit on a trip leaving my wife in a permanently reclined position. That is lack of quality.
Mike
A co-worker Niels had one that was a lemon, though Volvo really took care of him and put him in an S60 for a bargain deal. He like the S60 a whole lot better. His V40 had 11 pages of service history in just a couple of months.
I took another co-worker to test drive an S40, it was OK but really no better than an Accord, which is what she ended up getting. It just felt to me like an average smallish sedan, not bad but not a stand-out.
Subies cost less and are bigger, plus they offer AWD. The Forester does have side air bags that also protect the driver's head, even on a $19 grand base model.
Audis are much nicer inside IMO, and a lot sportier. Again, AWD is available so it doesn't drive like a plain FWD economy sedan.
-juice
We choose the Saturn based on 0% finance, GM card points, and comfort. The Saturn's rear strut towers are a bit intrusive in the back but not too bad, still lots of space for strollers, high chairs, playpens, etc. Not everyone has great reliability with the Saturn L-series but our 2001 has been great (replace the awful Firestone OEM tires if you get one though). In winter on Arctic Alpins it is good on snow and ice. Even Saturns have curtain airbags these days.
We got keyless as a pre-installed option on our 2002, and I installed a 6CD changer out of a WRX, they go for under $200 nowadays (they're getting lots of XM and Sirius units).
My wife's Legacy averages about 25mpg, not bad for a mid-size AWD wagon.
-juice
You mention Honda, so let's look at the 4 cylinder CR-V, which actually uses a version of the Accord's 2.4l engine. Perfect comparison, two AWD wagons, similar size, price, and displacement.
The manual tranny CR-V gets 20/25, while our 5 speed Legacy gets 21/27, despits the slightly bigger displacement. And Honda's AWD is part-time, so the 20/25 is in FWD mode.
Accord is a FWD sedan, not wagon, so that's apples to oranges.
What would you buy if AWD was a pre-requisite? Nothing out there beats the Legacy in that regard.
-juice
Look at other 2.5l cars, the BMW 323i gets 19/26 with AWD, and it's a 2.5l wagon, only smaller, plus it burns premium fuel.
The A4 Avant 1.8T is only slightly better, but it too burns premium, so fuel costs will be higher overall.
The Jag X Type gets 19/28, but it's smaller and doesn't offer the room of a wagon.
We had a 626 2.5l V6 5 speed and it got 21/26 on premium, also worse than the Legacy, and that was FWD.
The 2.5l Contour and Mondeo also got similar mileage, again with FWD.
So, I'll say it again, for a 2.5l with AWD, the Legacy is very efficient. We traded in that 626 and our fuel costs are down, we average about 3 mpg better on regular instead of premium.
-juice
-juice
The main drawback for me with my Saab is the lack of storage space. Not cargo room, but storage space, ie cupholders, place to put wrappers, trash, cell phone, umbrellas, blah blah. Of all the wagons I shopped, Saab had the least amount of storage cubbies but is otherwise nice enough, and very solid.
-james
-juice
Any thoughts or advice on the above? Thanks!!!
VW has also been improving. The Passat also has good resale, and a nice interior.
The Sienna is new, and any v1.0 is a risk. The first-year Camry fell to "Average" reliability, but that's still not bad. It is very innovative - split folding 3rd row, rear windows that open, AWD optional.
IMO I think the Saturns are a little out of their league here, but they could be seen as budget buys. But you say they're "cheap" yourself, so I'd avoid them. I doubt you'll be happy in 5 years if you don't even like them much now.
I'd add one to your list - the Subaru Forester. It has side air bags, but they are L-shaped and also protect the head (front passengers only). They're proven reliable (I love mine).
I'd suggest you attend a car show and check out the interior of all of them. Narrow it down to your 2 or 3 favorites, then drive them.
Then pick the one that brings the biggest smile to your face. The most fun car will probably be the one you'd like the best 5 years down the road.
Good luck.
-juice
If not, get the Passat.
-juice
Othewise, I'd take a long look at the Volvos. If you check their True Cost to Own numbers here on Edmunds you'll see they cost a fraction of the cost (over 5 years) of a cheaper Toyota, Subaru, etc. If you opt for Volvo's Overseas Delivery program you can get the V70 2.4 for $25,400 or the 2.4Turbo for $28,100 (and these prices include airfare for two, first night hotel, insurance, delivery to U.S., etc.). If it's in your range it's a pretty good deal pricewise (and there's a special vacation package for under $300/couple to get you five nights in either Nice or London, airport transfers, and airfare.)
As an aside, noticed you are looking at wagons and a minivan. I highly recommend you get some extended test drives with the wagons and your full family to insure a wagon will meet your needs over a minivan.
Good luck.
-rollie
We ended up looking hard at the VW Passat 4Mo wagon and the Subaru H6 VDC wagon. We drove them quite a bit, and based our decision on the test drives, various reviews from forum boards such as this, and on the dealer experience.
We've been very pleased with our Passat thus far. It may not end up being singularly the most reliable vehicle compared to what the other options were, however, it has the best blend of safety, features, fun, uniqueness, quality, and value. We also have two kids, 9 and 13, and lots of stuff we throw in the back. It's been great.
Good luck with your choice!
You have to keep in mind what I was driving prior to owning my Passat V6 4Mo wagon. I have an '89 Subaru 4 cyl. 4WD wagon, with 189,000 miles. It is no speed demon by any stretch of anyone's imagination!
Given that, both the Outback H6 wagons and the Passat V6 4Mo wagon provide more than ample power and acceleration for my needs. I don't recall exactly, but they both probably have similar 0-60 times, in the low to mid 8's, if that's relevant to you. Although the Subie has a little more horsepower, they are both similar in torque. What is more important to me is the passing acceleration, and that is what I was kind of keying in on during my test drives. Again, they both had an adequate kick-down gear at merging and highway speeds, although, the Passat did feel smoother during acceleration.
Now, after a few months of ownership, I continue to feel I made the right choice. Again, the Passat is very smooth throughout its power range. Although I would have preferred a manual, the 5sp auto in Tip mode does provide for very smooth shifts while going up to and back down from the ski resort. Also, its been a long time since I've had a car that can cruise comfortably at 80 and have enough oooomph left over to still take off when I stomp the gas pedal.
That said, the VDC isn't particularly fast, it's more about quiet cruising. The engine is very silent. When we test drove it, my wife didn't realize the engine was already on and was about to try to start it again.
C&D tested a Legacy with the H4 2.5l engine, albeit with a 5 speed, and the 0-60 was similar to the H6. The H6 is much smoother, though. We own a 2002 Legacy L and it's never lacking in power.
If you want real power in a Subie, go for the WRX, or wait 'til the Forester turbo arrives. On a Passat, get a 1.8T with a 5 speed manual and chip it, or get a V6/manual.
-juice
One thing to add: both the H6 Subaru and the V6 Passat have a lot of power when you are fully packed and need to tow something or go up a mountain. Not necessarily sportscar acceleration, but much more power to lug things/people than many smallish cars.
I can go up a mountain at 6000 feet (without turbo) and loaf at 2000 rpm fully packed with my Passat, where other makes are winding in the 6000rpm range trying to get by.
That said, don't underestimate the acceleration of the V6 automatic Passat. It is quite responsive over an incredibly wide torque band, even with the auto trans, and you can pull away from more than 90% of the drivers/makes at a stop light if you wish. The Subaru H6 feels a bit more domesticated in comparison.
- D
However, at altitude, turbos will carry a distinct advantage. Normally they'll bleed off any excess boost, but at altitude they'll use more of that boost and produce the same HP they do at sea level, while N/A engines will be wheezing and losing significant power.
Perhaps the V6 has power to spare, so you don't even notice. Or perhaps you're not at very high altitude.
The 2.8l V6 likes to rev, they put a bigger engine in the A4 for better low-end.
-juice