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I still wish I hadn't traded the RX-7 for the Protege. That 1982 RX-7 was quieter, smoother riding, quicker, more comfortable, and handled better than the Protege. Plus, there were no payments on it, so when something did go wrong it wasn't like pulling teeth to have it repaired. For an 18 year old car, it sure was terrific. I now see that the old saying is true... "They don't build them like they used to."
I am still in shock about that review. Definitely a no-holds-barred look at the Protege. I commute 70 miles a day, and add mileage quickly. I tend to tire of cars quickly though, but really wanna keep this one until it lays down and dies (or starts costing me alot of money to repair). I hope that will be at least around 150,000 miles. Since I will have 100K before it's paid off, I would love to be able to have at least a year or so without a car payment due.
Thanks!
I don't drive hard, brake ahead and slow down early to avoid brake problems and running up on cars in front of me. RPM's stay below 4000. Occassionally drive on expressways to get rpms up and speeds up to 70mph.
Avoid potholes and don't slam the doors. No rattles. Avoid steep driveways to prevent body twisting.
fowler3
Anyhoo, the brakes on my 99LX worked wonderfully. Even w/o ABS, managed to maintain control. Too bad the stock Firestone FR680-2s (read: Ford asked them to reduce the cost of the regular FR680s by removing a ply of polyester) don't have much grip. They squealed like pigs being stuck.
I should probably drive harder to wear them down faster. ;P They're lasting way too long for my liking (looks like the tread will last me for at least 30,000 miles...I should stop rotating them).
Any feedback on the new 550s from Yokohama? I was looking at Avid T4 and H4 tires, but heard they squeal rather readily. I'm hoping for better from their new designs.
I hate 2 things about it:
1. Jolting A/c at idle (but cools like Ice on the freeway)
2. Front passenger seat is placed way high to sit comfortably, at least I find it a problem when my wife is driving(not so in the corolla). my knucles hit the dash and head is barely 3 inches below the roof - feels awfully tight and sways when turning.
The driver's seat is excellent though.
your head sways when turning? hmmm
In the last few months the 626 was on the road, she was burning more oil than gas, had the original clutch, was racking up about 900 kilometres a week, and always started, even on the coldest day. (We often had it boast our newer Pontiac with it!!)
I expect the Protege to be just as good, if not better. It may rattle here or there or groan when the A/C is on full on a hot day, but the car will never fail me. I can't say that about the Fords, Chryslers or GMs that I've driven.
What did I expect? I have driven all of my cars this way and I have never had one deteriorate this quickly... Perhaps I was spoiled by the RX-7 before this... I would have kept that car but I needed the extra space. Since I am only half-way through my loan, I will probably replace pieces with performance parts as other parts wear out. I do like the overall dynamics of the car. Other than the ticking of the engine, it is still smooth throughout the revs.
I think the 2001 and newer Protege's will wear better. The 1999 and 2000 model years were designed as an economy car... the 2001 has been beefed up considerably to back up the zoom zoom claim. This is the first time I have had rear drums in a while... and I remember my 1991 Escort GT had much beefier brakes, tires, suspension pieces, and the Miata's engine. Except for the Ford body and interior that just wouldn't hold up, that car was absolutely amazing.
I just noticed that my front tires are worn pretty bad on the inside. I'm taking it to the dealer for a front alignment tomorrow and rotation tomorrow. Looks like it's time for new tires... I'll probably go with the Nitto's again since they were pretty good and cheap. Perhaps the alignment will help bring the mileage and performance back up.
I was a bit harsh this morning with my post. The car is not that bad. I was just in a bad mood and the road to work is really backed-up with traffic and covered in huge potholes. The "tick tick" of the engine I would consider normal for a Japanese 4-cyl engine. They all seem to do that... particularly Mazda and Honda engines. The rattles I knew were going to happen due to the outrageously stiff ride. I don't care how well a car is built, with the '99 and '00 stiff ride, any car would develop rattles. I hear the 2001's have a softer ride and better handling.
What I need to do is buy myself a used Miata or RX-7 to drive like a sports car and have the Protege to drive like an economy car...
I'm getting that 'new car temptation' thing again, and this time, it's over the Protege5! I absolutely love that thing. Very sporty and agressive and nicely done interior/exterior, plenty of features for the money...WOW. I might have to go down and trade for one! I dont know though, I'll have to think it over REAL well before I end up doing something I will regret. Paul (you should have waited for the Pro5!!)
Jerry, have you kept up with your regular maintenance sked? (I'm not just talking about oil changes.)
I'm not worried -- I've got a 100,000-mile bumper-to-bumper warranty and 11 years of experience with my dealership -- they know me by name, since I've purchased four cars from them! (Oh and Jerry, my last vehicle was a 1994 Mazda B2300SE pickup -- built right here in the good ol' U.S. of A. by Ford -- and it was the most troublesome piece of crap I've ever owned. Want details? Read message 369 in the "Mazda B Series" topic. I've got a stack of service receipts a half-inch thick if you want some good reading sometime!
Jerry, do you really think a comparably priced economy sedan such as Civic or Corolla, driven as hard as you've driven your Protege, is going to perform any differently? After all, when all's said and done, these are $15,000 econoboxes with high-revving four-cylinder engines -- not $50,000 sports cars with more leisurely running V6's and 8's.
I recommend you check out the topics "Honda Civic Problems" (lots of transmission, coolant and "ticking noise" complaints -- 724 posts in 18 months), and "Toyota Corolla Trouble" before unloading your Protege only to treat another car the same way and wind up with the same complaints after two years.
And it's no wonder you're unhappy -- you went from an RX-7 to a Protege? That's jumping from the top end of Mazda's lineup to the bottom!
Meade
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/kumho/ku_712.jsp
Thanks for the info Sporin!
Meade
Parallax: Yeah, I should have waited for the P5, but that's okay. I will just keep my ES until it falls over, or I get a big enough raise at work to afford a mid-size V6 sedan. It serves me fine though, so I have no problems with it.
Mileage: 80K on a 1999? How did you manage that? And how do you like it thus far?
Economy: I averaged 24.4 mpg on my last tank, in 90-degree heat with the AC on most of the time. Not too bad for an automatic 4 driven by a leadfoot.
Jerry: I used to have a 1999 DX and now have a 2001 ES, and the ES does feel alot more substantial than the DX did to me. It rides a little harsher, but the handling is alot better. But, like others have said, if you drive an economy car hard you will pay the repair bills in the end, especially when the mileage gets higher.
1974 MG Midget MkIII (72,000 - 105,000; bought from private party)
BL Series "A" 1275cc I4 Dual Carb; 4-spd manual; RWD
- 75,000 miles; intake system; rebuilt dual carb's and linkage
- 80,000 miles; electrical; replaced starting motor
- 82,000 miles; brakes; replaced pads/shoes, rebuilt master and slave cylinders
- 95,000 miles; exhaust; replaced entire exhaust system
- 102,000 miles; drivetrain; replaced teflon throw-out bearing
1991 Ford Escort GT (12,000 - 135,000; bought from private party)
Mazda 1.8L DOHC I4 with Ford induction; 5-spd manual; FWD
- 45,000 miles; 4-wheel disc brakes; replaced pads, turned rotors
- 58,000 miles; timing belt; snapped and replaced
- 65,000 miles; tires; replaced all 4
- 70,000 miles; suspension; 4-whl alignment
- 95,000 miles; AC system; recharged
1996 Ford Ranger (3 - 85,000; bought new)
Ford 2.3L SOHC I4; 5-spd manual; RWD
- 38,000 miles; suspension; front-end alignment
- 45,000 miles; brakes; replaced pads/shoes
- 58,000 miles; tires; replaced all 4
1982 Mazda RX-7 (80,000 - 150,000; bought from private party)
Mazda 1.2L twin-rotor rotary; 5-spd manual; RWD
- 80,000 miles; emissions system; replaced main catalytic converter
- 95,000 miles; intake system; replaced shutter valve
- 148,000 miles; drivetrain; replaced clutch disc and pressure plate
1999 Mazda Protege (2 - 45,000; bought new)
Mazda 1.8L DOHC I4; 5-spd manual; FWD
- 400 miles; suspension; front-wheel alignment, replace front tires
- 1,100 miles; body; replace windshield and windshield gasket, replace headliner, replace insulation
- 1,500 miles; body; adjust trunk and fuel door release
- 1,800 miles; engine; replace valve-cover gasket
- 2,000 miles; suspension; replace front bushings
- 18,000 miles; tires; replace all 4
- 21,000 miles; brakes; replace front pads, turn rotors
- 45,000 miles; suspension; front-end alignment
- 48,000 miles (est); tires; replace all 4
- 48,000 miles (est); AC system; recharge
- 50,000 miles (est); drivetrain; replace clutch disc and pressure plate
- 50,000 miles (est); brakes; replace pads/shoes, turn rotors
Do I do regular maintenance? Since I drive my cars hard, of course I do... How's this? I've replaced the spark plugs twice. I've been through three air filters. I change the oil and rotate the tires every 3,000-3,500 miles. I've had the brake/clutch hydraulic systems flushed. I've had the cooling system flushed. I have replaced the fuel filter. All of the vehicle's maintenance is completed by a Mazda dealership and they do the obligatory chassis lubrications and inspections.
I'm not saying the Protege is a bad car. It just can't seem to stand up the abuse my previous vehicles have. It just backs up the saying, "They don't build them like they used to."
I don't floor the throttle, but gradually increase pressure as the rpm's rise. I generally drive between 70-80mph, although the car has been up to the speed limiter once. I do take corners hard, but not hard enough to squeal the tires. I generally brake gradually and downshift (double clutching) unless I need to brake hard. The car has its maintenance done well before the maintenance schedule calls for it.
The RX-7, MG, and Escort GT I totally thrashed. But they held up quite well... Of course, those were the older cars I have owned... Like I said before, they just don't build them like they used to...
Sounds like you got a bum Pro. Probably somewhat due to it being one of the first of a new model.
Of course, any model will have good and bad examples. It's a matter of percentage. Again, sorry you're having such a bad experience with your Pro. Other than the water getting into my trunk whenever I power-wash it (and some surface rust on under-body components and the rear drum brake casings), my 99's been pretty good. I don't drive as hard as you, though. At 19,300mi, I still have over 50% of my front pads left and probably another 15k miles on the tires.
Acquired from friend- 2398 miles/traded 37,364 mi.
6000 miles- took car in for harsh shifting when passing and for CD sticking in player. No problem found with either thing.
20,000 (est.)- 4-wheel alignment
26,500 (est.)- realign car, replace 2 front tires, tune up, and replace front pads and turn rotors.
I did oil changes ever 7500 miles on the car, and rotations at the same time. Those were the only two things I ever had to do to it though. Pretty good, IMO.
My 2001 Protege has already been in the shop 3 times in 5 months. The brake rotors are warped (still has to go back for that one), the alignment was off several times, the driver's seat springs squeak occasionally, A/C isn't as cold as I thought it should be (tested fine though), and the CD player malfunctioned once (never did it again though). Had less problems with the 1999 model. We will see what the long run holds.
I have owned 30 cars and wish, now, I hadn't bought most of them. Most were not at all as good as I believed at the time. They are just cars!
Look at dealers lots, full of cars, acres and acres of cars. Not one is worth more than any other and none will be worth much in a few years. That's why dealers don't offer you much on a trade, it's just another car to them.
Long ago my dad told me, "Which will give you more prestiege, driving an expensive car, or people knowing you are worth, in dollars, what that car implies?" Save your money!
fowler3
2000 Mazda Protege ES 5-speed
Purchased: May 2000
Whitten Brothers Jeep/Chrysler/Mazda
Richmond, Virginia
Non-preventive maintenance:
2,000 miles: Replaced plastic clip holding trunk springs under rear parcel shelf, under warranty. (Um, I broke it by trying to slide too tall a box into the trunk, and they still fixed it under warranty!)
16,000 miles: Replaced CD player, again under warranty. (Cause: I placed a CD with a label on it in my player -- this is strongly advised against in the owner's manual, yet STILL my dealer replaced it under warranty.)
I now have 23,000 miles on my car. That's the entirety of my non-scheduled dealer visits. A good friend of mine went out and bought the exact same car I have (even the color's the same) -- except his is an automatic -- three months after I bought mine. He's had zero problems with his.
Mazda No. 2:
1992 Mazda Protege LX 5-speed
Purchased: September 1992
Whitten Brothers Jeep/Chrysler/Mazda
Richmond, Virginia
Non-preventive maintenance:
None
Traded it in at 83,000 miles on a Mazda B2300SE pickup, built by Ford. Worst mistake I ever made.
Protege No. 1:
1992 Mazda Protege LX automatic
Purchased: December 1991
Whitten Brothers Jeep/Chrysler/Mazda
Richmond, Virginia
Non-preventive maintenance:
None
Yes folks, Mazda was placing Bridgestone Poortenza RE-92s on its Proteges nine years ago. This was my "learning Protege" with these tires. On one muggy Richmond late-summer afternoon, I found myself in the middle of a sudden, torrential thunderstorm. Those tires, and my nine-month-old Protege, had 28,000 miles on them. I hydroplaned at 40-45 mph for about a tenth of a mile, coming to a not-so-graceful stop at the rear of a Volvo 245DL station wagon at a traffic light. Car was totaled. (Excellent Mazda safety note: Even though the '92s only had those damned motorized "passive restraint" belts and no air bags, I walked out of my totaled car.)
Jerry, I'm sorry you've had so much trouble. As we've seen from your own post, your Ford Ranger treated you well -- yet my own Mazda-built-by-Ford B2300 (with the same engine as yours, by the way) had engine problem after engine problem.
I will say that after reading your itemized list of repairs, many -- more than half -- of those items are wear-related. Ask any mechanic about how long a clutch will last and he'll say anywhere from 500 miles to 200,000 miles, depending on the driver. I can't sit here and say you're hard on your clutch any more than you can make me believe you don't sit at traffic lights and ride it. I also can't estimate how hard you brake and whether you let your engine slow the car down (I have a five-speed too) to help the brakes. There are two schools of thought on that little habit right there -- those who would rather let the engine do some of the braking, and others who say brake pads cost a LOT less than engine rebuilds.
But who knows? At one time I had a 1988 Hyundai Excel -- yeah, yeah, everybody stop snickering and read -- such a worthless car, right? Well, my 5-speed Hyundai Excel GL 5-door -- which I paid $7,100 for in 1987, the first year Hyundai was in this country -- went 120,000 miles delivering pizzas and only had one problem -- a transmission slip that was covered by a Hyundai recall. Funny thing is, considering all the cars I've owned -- Toyota, Saab, Hyundai, Ford-Mazda and Japan-Mazda -- and the miles I've put on them, the Hyundai probably was the most reliable of the bunch.
Go figure!!!
Meade
fowler3
Tires I can understand... I go through those fairly quickly (but 18,000 on those Potenza's was ridiculous, but common). Brakes I typically get about 30,000-45,000 miles out of. I am not surprised I need an alignment at this point. That's pretty common. Of course, all of that warranty work I had in the beginning just kind of jinxed the car... I think it's just that I came out of the RX-7 before this. Even though that RX-7 was 20 years old, it still had much more refinement and build quality than my '99 Protege.
panamaltd2... It was I who said the 2001 Protege would wear better than the 1999-2000. Of course it will. The brakes are larger, the body stiffer, and suspension stronger. The engine is larger and stronger (don't have to push it as hard as the smaller engine). I am referring to the ES models...
my '99 es is worth only 9500$ now.
But I drive my cars carefully and speed them up only on the freeway 65-70 generally. sometimes 80 if the road is smooth.
No rattles on a smooth road, but if I hit potholes, I can hear the doors rattle because of the body flexing.
I think that maybe taken care of by having tires with softer and bigger sidewalls.
and maltb, yes my upper half of the body sways when I am in the passenger seat and I can't push back far enough ' cause the child seat interferes.
Biggest drawback is the way the engine is mounted on rubber bushings on the firewall.
No new car has it's engine mounted on the firewall. Tehy all have hydraulic mounts which are great for isolating the noise/vibrations from the cabin
Hope mazda learns....
It now has about 34k miles on it. Here's the non-preventive maintenance we've had to do on it:
Whew, long list. :-) Seriously, we did have some intermittent troubles with the CD player transport, but that hasn't shown up for months now. And we had to replace the windshield because of a big rock that came off a construction truck, but that wasn't the car's fault.
This is one of the many reasons we're buying another Protege, this one for me--it'll be a P5 with a 5-speed. I can't wait!
All I do is oil & oil filter changes every 5,000 miles. I usually do tire rotations at the same time, but I'm trying to wear these Firestones out quickly, so I've only rotated them once at 19,000 miles (I'm trying to wear them out evenly...I'm still cheap). I've changed the air filter once at 15,000 since it looked kind of dirty (lost of dust and pollen, some bugs). Every now and then I visually check the front brake pads and spray the exposed metal of the underbody parts and door joints with some silicone grease.
19,3k miles and still pretty solid. Some minor vibration from the engine now when idling in D. I'll have the dealer take care of that at the 30,000 mile tune-up. A/C has never jolted on me. Cooling is adequate, but not the strongest I've felt.
Speaking of cooling, do you think Mazda will keep the mesh seats they had in their RX-8 show cars? That would help ventilate the ol' back-side during the hot humid months w/o having to use one of those cheesy bead seats. I wonder if they'll extend those to their other models? It would open up some more legroom in the rear seat too.
1. depress clutch,shift to neutral, release clutch
2. rev engine, depress clutch, shift to gear and release clutch.
And since you're fond of downshifting as well I would say your clutch as well as you left leg are both getting a hell of a workout.
You can check out Motor Trend's article on the future Mazda vehicles at http://www.motortrend.com/april01/mazda/mazda_f.html
Overall, I like my Protege. I have experienced a lot of problems and premature wear that is probably my fault. I bought the Protege because of it's sporty driving dynamics. I just figured that a car with that type of dynamics would be built to withstand that type of driving, but I was wrong. It is still, in fact, an economy car. Cars like the Miata and RX-7 are equipped with heavier-duty performance parts that can withstand spirited driving...
As far as my comment that I would never buy a Mazda again... I lied. I just need to stick with sports cars if I want to drive like I'm in one. A car with a larger engine would probably be better for me as well, as you don't have to push it as hard. Let's face it... the Protege is quick, but you have to push it. Something like the Pontiac Grand Prix GTP with its supercharged V6 is mighty fast and even I wouldn't push it very hard...
Is there anyone else here that's wondered why the Protege is geared so low in 5th gear? During my 10 hour trip to northern California a few months ago, I got really tired of 4,000rpm. Imagine how much better fuel mileage would be if the engine spun about 1,000rpm less on the freeway... It is no wonder that the Protege is near the bottom of it's class for fuel mileage. The Dodge Neon's 150hp 2.0L gets 27/33, the Civic's 127hp 1.7L gets 32/37, and the Corolla 125hp 1.8L gets 32/41. All of those cars have similar performance and weigh about the same as the Protege. Come on Mazda... these cars get even better mileage than the 1.6L in the DX and LX...
It seems that double clutching is a lost art with these new transmissions. However, if you watch the new Acura RSX commercials, it shows the driver double clutching on a downshift. And, in The Fast And The Furious, the main character was made fun of because he wasn't double clutching in a 1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS-T!! Is the long lost art of driving making a comeback??
And what kinds of a car/engine/transmission/driving condition combo would one use it in?
Planning to go watch the Fast and the Furious one of these days. Been postponing it for a while now!
I still think there should be one Pro with suspension tuned for Interstate cruising, a touring version. Would any of you ES owners like to drive from CA to NY in your Pro? The Lincoln Town Car is the touring cruiser, a Pro is a Town Car.
Strange how they label cars.
fowler3
Sometimes you have to double-clutch to get into the chat room, too!
fowler3
fowler3
anyways, the character in the movie said this right after they finished drag racing.. why would you need to double-clutch in a drag race??.. i doubt they even take their foot off the gas..