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I think it is rated at 18/23 mpg...
They were really nice cars around 2002...
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A VW or BMW or Mercedes, while incredible to drive, will bankrupt your child when it comes to driving it at college. Going on 8-10 years old, it'll be right at that OMG what broke this week stage.
But my real suggestion is to gt what you want. And get another car at the time. The perfect car would be a used Honda Fit or something that can carry cargo and is dirt cheap to drive while in school. Or even something older like a Tacoma pickup. Let it get beat up, dented, and used. And hardly pay a dime to keep it running. Then sell it and let them get their own vehicle.
Hardly. For example, check out these current small cars for back seat room and comfort:
Elantra (sedan and Touring)
Impreza
Jetta
Prius
Versa
And some modern Buicks, like the Verano and Regal, don't have all that roomy back seats.
The cars are good for 250-300K, so getting one that has 40-60K on it is really not an issue at all. Just beware that a lot of them were abused or driven hard, so look for signs of heavy wear, non-factory parts or mods (or repairs) and go on to the next one.
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I'm considering 3 cars (all with automatic transmission):
1) Subaru Impreza hatchback
2)the new Hyundai Elantra GT
3) Volkswagen Golf (4 door)
Am planning to buy in the spring, but am just starting my research and am planning on doing test drives for all three--and, if possible, renting them to really check them out.
Aside from the obvious pluses for each (AWD for the Subaru, great warranty for the Hyundai) I'd love opinions from folks as to which car (out of the 3) they prefer and why.
Many thanks in advance!
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
I think the Elantra GT is very nice also, but for $20k you'll be looking at a base model with AT and that's it. Doesn't look like Hyundai plans to ship many of these over here, so prices will probably stay up even next spring. BTW, similar problem with availability on the Impreza... hard to find any selection in stock.
Re the Golf... keep in mind the Golf VII will be here sometime next year, so if you buy a Golf VI in the spring, it will be a generation old overnight. So you could wait for the Golf VII, which is supposed to have a turbo engine standard and better FE, or... you could get a slightly used, VW Certified Golf VI. You could get a very nice one including an extended warranty for $20k.
Based on your looking at these cars, two others I think are worth a look for you are the Mazda3i Touring hatch (Skyactiv), which is a blast to drive, and the Focus hatch, also fun to drive albeit I'd stay away from the auto on that one, but reportedly Ford has worked out the kinks on it, or most of them at least.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
3k miles a year for 10 years is 30k miles. At 25 mpg, that's 1200 gallons. At 30 mpg, it's only 1000 gallons. At $4 a gallon (very optimistic for a 10-year average I think), that's $800 in my pocket if I go with a newer design with better fuel economy. All else being equal, I'd take the $800.
Even if you didn't ... for $80/year or less than $7/mo, I wouldn't be concerned.
But, hey, if the OP can afford to wait, all the better.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
I would not eliminate the Impreza so quickly. The AWD has advantages in rain and you never know when the weather will change if you travel. Also the flat 4 cylinder engine design has a lower center of gravity. My subarus have had low insurance costs relative to some other cars in my fleet. In contrast, Hyundais often have high insurance costs.
The only current generation Golf I would consider would be a TDI, but that's 20-25% over your budget.
I second the suggestion to look at a Mazda 3i SkyActive. In fact, that should probably be near the top of your list.
Which is why I said "all else being equal."
Sure, if you have to pay more for the later design and its advantages aren't worth the extra money, get the old design. Even get a used car, as I suggested. For 3k miles a year, it really doesn't make sense to buy a new car. Let someone else take the big up-front depreciation. The only reason to buy new in that case is... to get the latest design.
To make the point, for $20K, you can get a 3-4 year old Cadillac CTS. Or a 3-4 year old C class. Let alone a used Accord for $15K, or my favorite, older GM cars for 12K. Sometimes two years old.
You drive so little that you really should get a larger mid to full size upper-end car if you can. After all, a used Camry is always going to be a better car than a brand new Yaris. Not only in safety and features, but also reliability, as everything is just built better. CPO is of course, preferred, as you get a warranty and some peace of mind.
If you absolutely have to have a new car, there is one that is a great deal, is $20K , and gets great MPG. The new Ford Mustang. It drives great, gets 30mpg highway, and with year-end incentives (wait 8-9 weeks), 20K for a base model is quite easy to accomplish.
Note - I went to Cars Direct and selected:
- 2013, a normal color (dark blue looks great)
- the option package with the fog lights, poser seats, and tech upgrades
- limited slip diff.
(did not select the 19" tires as it just makes the car ride like a rock)
$23,837 including a $795 delivery charge. By the end of the year, $20K will easily be possible with some haggling.
I actually had a long conversation last night with my cousin who's owned a Subaru for 16 years and it's still going strong. She was raving about it (as did my neighbor who has the Impreza.) The Impreza is starting to look like a front-runner for me (love the idea of AWD--while I don't drive in the snow that often, things might change in a few years--I have a small cottage in the woods and it's completely inaccessible in the winter without either AWD or 4WD.) Can't wait to start test-driving!
Seems to me that the IS is kind of a fake BMW 3-series, in that it doesn't have much of a sporty character despite its packaging. In the long run, I would guess that would hurt its resale value more than the GS, which doesn't pretend to be anything but a luxury car.
Lexus depreciates too slowly at first - mostly driven by dealer greed. But once they get to about 6-7 years old, the value drops sharply.(CPO isn't an option that old, so everything is priced off of base/auction price, pretty much)
I'd personally recommend something from Mercedes if you want luxury, or something like a 2008 CTS. You can get a better quality car a couple of years newer for about the same money. Also, the Cadillac is significantly more sporty than the Lexus, and better equipped as well. (it should be, considering what it originally cost).
Also on a side note, let it be clear, I don't know anything about cars, I just like a few, drove a few and the few I drove I loved, so if it ain't to much trouble, it be nice if you could tell me if the Eclipse '90 decent enough to maintain, I know its not new so it will have its trouble shots. Thanks again.
More important than the car is the seller in your case. If you can find someone who is honest and straightforward and can give you a good idea of what might need fixing soon and what has been replaced, buy it. Otherwise, keep looking. Probably a private seller who is a friend or family member is your best bet. Good luck!
Surprised no one has mentioned the Honda Fit? You can get a very nice one for your price and have both a fun car and one with a lot of carrying capacity thanks to the clever way its seats fold down in the back.
Anything else will be a complete money pit or be a total DIY project.
What you want is something that is seen as a old person's car, depreciates like a rock, and is built to actually still be running in the 15 year old range or so. Like I said, this means something either so simple you can work onit yourself, or something that was overbuilt and is a big tank. You can actually get perfectly good working 2002 Crown Vics for $3K. You can get a ~2000 Buick LeSabre for about that price. It'll likely have been owned by an elderly person who didn't abuse it. Note - my mom's 2000 LeSabre will go 80mph quite easily - it's deceptively quick. 27mpg highway is also a nice bonus.
If you want sporty and old, here are a few to consider:
- 1993 Volvo 240. This was the last year and they are extremely reliable and simple to keep running. They handle quite well for their age. Also consider a 940, which is a 240 with a better exterior and fancier options. Get with manual.
- 4 cylinder Toyota Rav4/Tacoma/4Runner with manual. This is indestructible and works. Volvos and Toyotas are well known to last 300K+ miles. Avoid 6 cylinder models. Avoid automatics.
- BMW 318Ti. This is a specific BMW that is cheap to run and actually is quite reliable. Because it's a hatchback, it was panned by Americans (much like the Mercedes C230K hatchback was). This means very low prices. Upkeep is more than the other options, but it's worth it in the end. Manual, naturally. Drives like, well, a BMW.
On manuals - manuals make you a better, more in-tune driver, and they cost a few *hundred* to put a new clutch in.(or $150 if you DIY) Automatics on ancient cars run $1500-$2000, typically. GM's big cars (Buick and Cadillac) and the Crown Vic are notable overbuilt automatics that I'd recommend 10 years old. BMW, Mercedes, and Volvo were almost entirely sold with manuals in Europe. It's the only way to but a European car, IMO. As little to break as humanly possible, and a manual gearbox.
Other than that, get a classic car for $2500 and work on restoring it. If you get something with carbs and pre-smog, as well as pre-computers, you can actually keep it running for a very long time with elbow grease. Your uncle will likely like this option, actually, as he can help you fix things quite easily compared to modern 15-20 year old cars which are usually a mess of crumbling wiring and aging computers and sensors.
But my first choice of all of those above? Get a used 4Runner. You can save a lot, btw, if the thing has a few places with rock rash and dings, which a lot of them have. 4WD, of course. Look for a Marlin Crawler transmission and/or transfer case if it has one fitted to it.
I had written about a month ago asking opinions on buying a new car.
Well, I've narrowed it down to two choices now:
1) The Subaru Impreza 5 door Premium
2) VW Gold 5 door base model with Convenience package (which adds bluetooth, etc.)
I've been renting a bunch of cars (sadly neither one of those models yet) and have realized a couple of things. My old car had a v6 engine and while the hp was 134, the torque was 180. I've been finding that I'm not crazy about cars with lower hp/power. Also, my old car had pretty tight steering, which I prefer. That puts a bit of an edge on the Golf for me. So before I head off to test drive these my main questions are:
Which car is more expensive to maintain after the warranty? Which car lasts longer all things being equal? (I take REALLY good car of my cars, keep them garaged, keep up with maintenance and do about 3000 miles a year.)
Thanks again all.
One thing to consider is re the CVT on the Impreza, if you are going that route. I am not 100% sold yet on CVT reliability, although I drive a car with a CVT today (2010 Sentra)--but it has a 10 year, 120k mile warranty on the CVT.
If I were deciding between these two cars (and they are both on my shopping list for next year, albeit I hope the Golf VII is out by then), I'd definitely go with the stick on the Golf. It's a great shifter, has a tall 5th gear for low revs on the highway (less noise, better FE), and will likely hold up better in the long run than the automatic. And it's more fun. For the Impreza, I would tend to go with the CVT based on driving both the 5-speed and CVT and finding the CVT to be much quieter, lower revving, and having better FE.
And of course the Golf has much more torque than the Impreza--also likely lower FE, esp. compared to the CVT Impreza. But considering you drive 250 miles a month, the difference in FE on these two cars is moot.
Actually the Golf (and Rabbit before it) has an excellent predicted reliability record, per CR. The Impreza is a new design, but earlier Imprezas had an excellent record. Significant difference there? I don't see it.
The issue is that you can hardly get the base trim and manual any more in most European brands. VW is one of them, though, and they are fine if you get a basic car with the basic engine.
But for a first time buyer, sporty and fun and all the things a young driver lusts after are not going to happen for $3K. Not unless you go into a classic car and start restoring it.
I
For your driving habits, I strongly recommend you get the car you like driving best, first and foremost. All other factors, including FE and reliability, are of lesser importance for the few miles you drive. That being said, I think you'll like how the Mazda3 drives.
The Golf has significantly more hp and torque and it is obvious, especially under light to modereate throttle. The Golf's standard 6AT is one of the best I've sampled in a while. It is usually in the gear that it needs to be in and doesn't balk at part-throttle kick-downs for instant power when you need it.
The inteiror materials look and feel very high quality and they are assembled perfectly. They would not look out of place in an Audi A3.
The car feels as solid as a bank vault on the road. It feels like it will stay tight for many miles into the future.
The only issue I have with the Golf is that it comes with 15" steel wheels and fugly plastic wheel covers! But that can corrected in a few ways- VW will sell you a slick set of 17" wheels for $1500 or so. Or you can go aftermarket and spend well under $1k, but still change the whole look of the car!
One more quick detail about the Golf- it is available in six colors, most of them are nothing special but one really stood out and looked awesome- Blue Graphite! With a sharp set of silver alloys, it would look more like a $30k car.
Final note- I'm being totally serious- this is the first time I've recommened a VW in over 10 years on this and other auto sites. I would normally give the top nod to the Mazda3, but it's not quite as special as it used to be....btw, the Golf has very good reliability ratings on CR!
Another car to consider would be the Subaru BRZ/Scion FR-S (joint venture between the two companies) I like the FR-S a bit better as it has a much lower actual/street price and is a little quicker with the manual. But 25K might be out of your budget.
Lastly, there is my personal budget economy car. But you're going to probably think I'm joking...
Wait a month. Get a 2012 Mustang with the V6 engine. It gets 30mpg (real world) highway and has no issues at all with power. The insane part of it is the price - $20K. And that's now. Not in a month when they add another 2K in incentives, most likely, you'll be able to haggle 18K for a base model. The upgraded looks of the 2013 are better, but they also make the 2012 less desirable. In a month, dealers will be begging you to take one, especially if it's manual.
The price of it has hardly changed while the imports are charging huge amounts for their economy cars. You can hit 25K on a Golf without blinking.
(all manual here - there's ZERO reason to buy automatics that make it slower than a slug) 0-60 in 10+ seconds (real-world driving without dropping it into gear at full throttle) isn't sporty or fun. Having to flog it to get up a mountain pass isn't either. I remember trying to get onto a freeway uphill with a little 4 cylinder with the power to weight ratio of the Impreza and I almost wet myself every time I tried to do it. 60mph uphill was closer to 20 seconds due to there being so little torque for the huge weight (these all weigh way over 3000lbs). Add a passenger and you pretty much were looking for a 200ft+ gap.
VW Golf 23/33 (26 combined) 170HP/177 Torque
Mustang V6 19/29 (23 combined) 305 HP/280 Torque (0-60 5.8)
Mazda 3 20/28 (23 combined) 150 HP/134 Torque
Impreza 25/34 (28 combined) 148 HP/145 Torque
BRZ/FR-S 22/30 (25 combined) ~200 HP/~150 Torque
To me, the Mustang stands out as a fun, fast, and inexpensive option. And it looks great as well. You can also somewhat stomach the automatic, IMO, if you have to, as it has more than enough power to deal with the losses and lag. Fords are also cheap to repair.
The 2012 VW Golf 2.5L 4-door is only available with a 6-speed automatic transmission, manual not available. The 2-door 2.5L has a standard 5MT and the 6AT is optional. The only 4-door Golf with a manual is the TDI with a standard 6MT.
I was surprised that to see that the 2012 Impreza only has a 5-speed manual when almost every competitor offers a 6-speed manual instead. I would think that extra ratio would be very useful in offsetting the new car's less powerful 2.0L engine, but I guess the 5MT won't run off the Subaru faithful.