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60s-70s big Chevrolets vs. big Fords
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Another brain cell shot!
Getting to the point where I should seriously consider selling the TBird or the 64 Galaxie convt. Just not getting the enjoyment out of them like I used to.
I'd probably sell the convt and do some restoration work on the TBird, a much more solid car. (Convert's too far gone with underneath northeast coast rust and over 200,000 miles.)
Tough decision.
Show is held right on the boardwalk. It became a hotrod show as opposed to a classic car show, but there's still hundreds of cars, many of which are classics. Police set the town streets up for a Saturday night cruise, but, the show has gotten too big.
Cars range from classics to customs to hotrods to new specialties (saw a Mustang Bullitt last September in the show).
If you want to ensure that your car will get on the boardwalk (which opens at 8AM), you need to be in line before 6AM.
If you're lucky, you can still catch a warm, late summer/September day, park the car on the boardwalk, and spend most of the day in the warm ocean.
Unfortunately, the burnouts late at night have possibly placed the show in jeopardy. It's not uncommon to see 100 people out at 2-3AM throwing water on the street and coaxing the hotrodders to "light 'em up!". (Of course, there's a police cruiser on the next block, just waiting.)
I used to be able to get full metal gaskets that would hold/seal better and last longer. Can't find them any more.
Any suggestions?
In 1969 my grandmother bought a brand new cream colored '69 LTD 4dr hardtop. As my family lived with her, my parents and I (at the age of three) enjoyed her car as if it was our own. The car was a Brougham model with a beautiful dark green cloth interior. Options included interval wipers, AM radio, tilt wheel, and a 6 way power seat. Interestingly, it did not have power windows or locks, or cruise control, or even a vinyl top. It did, however, have the 429 2v V8 engine. I will never forget the sound of that car! Even though it exhaled thru a single exhaust it had one of the sweetest sounding idle notes I have ever heard. To this day, my parents never let me forget the fact that I once made a tape recording of the exhaust!
Before long, the '69 shared the garage with my parent's new '70 Galaxie 500 with a 390 V8. That car shared the LTD's exterior color, but was a four dour sedan. The Galaxie, with it's full framed doors and windows, proved to be a much better sealed car than the hardtop LTD; important in our dusty rural farm country.
In '73, my dad's brother, who lived a mile away, bought a new '73 Mercury Marquis Brougham 2dr hardtop, complete with a 460 V8. Jealous of such a fancy car, my envy eased a little when we traded in the Galaxie on a '75 LTD Landau 4 dr pillared hardtop. It was equipped with just about every option, including the very plush Landau Luxury Group option. The only thing missing was a 460; the engine powering this car was actually a 400 2v.
In '78 my uncle ordered a new Grand Marquis 2dr hardtop with a 460; his youngest son, just out of high school, then inherited the '73. One of the first things "we" did was take my cousin's "inheritance" to Midas Muffler to get a 2 1/2 inch dual exhaust with turbo mufflers installed. It was an awesome hour long ride home from the muffler shop -- the sound alone was worth the $200 dollar cost, or so we juvenile delinquents thought at the time!
Meanwhile, my uncle's Mercury fever had spread to his oldest son, as well, who shuttled his family around in two 460 powered Grand Marquis 4dr sedans; first a '75 and then a '78.
In 1983, I inherited the '75 LTD as I headed out for college. Two years later I spent part of my summer vacation swapping out the 400 for a used 460. That was the most ambitious mechanical project I had ever attempted, and many lessons were learned the hard way. Perhaps the most memorable was when I cranked over my completed engine for the first time only to discover that I had installed the wrong bolts to secure the flexplate. The bolts were too long, extending beyond the crankshaft flange and compressed against the engine block! After dealing with that headache, I was dealt my next blow in the form of a collapsed piston. Thankfully, the local Ford dealer's service manager, who was a personal friend, then rebuilt the engine himself. At that time, he installed an edelbrock performer cam and a dual exhaust system. The result was a car I enjoyed for many years; a brick on wheels that occasionally embarrased a few "high performance" cars during stoplight drags.
All of those cars are long gone now, replaced by a steady diet of GMC Jimmys and Chevy Blazers and Tahoes over the last decade plus. Oh well; sorry to all you other posters for enduring my long-winded tale, but thanks for the memories!
Then in '71 he was in the market again, and again I liked the Ford. But I remember being in the showroom looking at a 4-door with them and they didn't like the way the back doors didn't cut all the way back to be paralleled with the rear seatback; there was some part of the C-pillar that made the door opening a bit smaller. But with the GM strike that year he ended up buying a new '71 Monaco (I *loved* that car!).
By the mid-70s he wanted a smaller car so the fullsizers were out of consideration. But I remember those '75 to '78 Fords as being massive beasts. You could get a Custom 500 hardtop for not much money the last few years; I guess they may have been suffering saleswise and priced them pretty competitively. I always thought they were a great buy.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
Congratulations! You win the "Understatement of the Century" award!
Bill
73 Marquis Brougham Wimbledon White/Medium Blue.
429-4v/Rim-Blow, Cruise, Buckets, 8-track, windows, locks, seats, climate control. =D
Judging from the list of equipment on your car, (and assuming yours is a 2dr hardtop) your Merc is very similar to my uncle's 73 Marquis Brougham, right down to the auto temp control. The only differences seem to be color scheme, radio, and engine. My uncle's car was chocolate brown with a white vinyl top and brown cloth interior, had an am/fm stereo (without the tape), and the 460 engine (same as the 429 but with a longer stroke). The car also had wheel keys color keyed to match the exterior paint.
In late 1977, when my uncle picked up his new '78 Grand Marquis (which he had ordered in the same color scheme and with the same equipment + leather seats) he traded in the '73, which then occupied the dealer's used car lot for a brief while. The following 1977 Christmas morning, the '73 reappeared in my uncle's driveway, literally wrapped up in a big red bow! He had bought the car back from the dealer to give to his 18 year old son for Christmas. For my cousin, it was like welcoming a long lost relative back home!
It was a very cool car indeed! The only time the coolness diminished was when the rim blow steering wheel wore to the point that the slightest hand pressure caused the horn to sound (i.e. every time a turn was encountered)!
I have the opportunity (for free) to get a 68-69 390/335 HP from my wife's uncle. (He's about to trash a once beautiful Cougar XR7GT, red/white vinyl top with manual sunroof.) Motor has low mileage, but the car has been sitting outdoors for many, many years, and the motor may need rebiulding.
The Cougar's trans is 4-speed. As much as I'd love to put the entire drivetrain in the convertible, finding all the brake/clutch pedal parts and a chrome console top for the manual would be a bear. (I could do away with the console and just keep the buckets, but that would detract greatly from the interior. Can't do away with the console on the Tbird as it houses the heater/defroster controls and the radio speaker.)
Would the Cougar drivetrain, excluding drive shaft, fit the convert? How much trouble to put the 390/335 in either car and keeping the automatic? Would the autotrans in either car be able to hold the power, although I'm only into occasional full throttle driving. (Dumb luck, I've been running a perfect rear end (3.50)in the convert for years, having swapped out the 3.00 a long time ago.)
Again, as pure driver cars, I'm not worried in the least about matching numbers. (This is the second 352/250 motor in the convert anyway. I still have a 64 Ford factory A/C system sitting in my garage from a car that I bought years ago to get the motor.)
Hindsight, I should have talked my wife's uncle into selling me the Cougar XR7 when it was still fresh.
It the 390 is just a rebuildable core I'm not sure it's worth it, especially if the transmissions in your cars have high miles. Engines and transmissions tend to wear at roughly the same rate and bolting a fresh 390 to a tired transmission will just about guarentee that you'll be rebuilding the transmission shortly.
Tough choice.
The 58 TBird hardtop is the cleaner car, more suitable for cosmetic restoration, but not to the extent that it would ever become a showcar. The trans is original (60,000 miles), and, except for leaking, shifts perfectly.
The 64 Galaxie trans was rebiult (I'm guessing) about 30,000 miles ago.
Though the Galaxie convt is higher than the 58 TBird on the "fun to drive" list, it's got over 205,000 miles on the body.
I also found a dealer on the Galaxie car club website that has all the pieces necessary for a complete 1964 Galaxie conversion to 4 speed, including trans and hard to find 64 XL console plate for a 4 speed. Price- $1,250.
So, I'm guessing, but assuming an engine rebuild from a friend who has an engine shop ($1,200) and an installation price of $700(?), Im looking at roughly $3,150 to convert the Galaxie to a 4 speed or $1,900 to keep either car as an automatic with a 390/335 motor.
If the 64 had less miles or a stronger chassis, I'd go for the full conversion. But, since it doesn't, I'm still considering just the engine rebuild/swap.
If the 58 TBird was a convt, that would be the way to go.
I bought the car because my father had a Blue Brougham withthe glamour paint in the mid-70s He Bought it new in 73, sold itin 77 whenhe got a 924.. Same year Mom got a BMW 530i.
Bigh switch,huh?
Bill
That's a pretty rare car..probably well worth saving. Seriously., especially an XR7 GT.. they didnt make many of those.
As far as the engine swap, I'd avoid it myself. WHat it will cost is going to be some $Z$ (that 390 will need a rebuild) and you'll devalue either car. Also, the T-Bird really doesnt have (I've owned 3 Squarebirds, and love them but am well aware of what they are dynamically) anywhere near the braking system or suspension to safely even handle the power of a base 352... To say nothing of a hi-po 390.
Bill
Devaluation is not a concern on either car. The 64 Galaxie already has a replacement motor. Also, when I purchased the car in 1969, it was originally a Galaxie 500. I converted it to a 500XL gathering all the XL pieces (buckets/console/moldings, etc) from various cars.
The TBird still has the original motor, but, the prior (first) owner was (no BS) a 93 year old lady when she sold the car. There's no rust, but the car has different shades of white based upon her numerous fender benders. (In fact, the car had a 1960 grille when I bought it in 1989, and I swapped it with someone that had a 58 grille available.)
I've thought about a repaint, but the body shop looked at it and said the cost to strip off all the thick, old paint (due to prior repair work) would choke a horse. He recommended that I just enjoy the car as-is, because, unless you really look at it close, the car looks very nice.
Over the past 13 years, I have had the front bucket seat covers replaced and the rear bumper rechromed. I also changed the dashpad, a bear of a job. Otherwise, the car is an absolutely original 60K miles car (had 49K when I bought it) with the original buyer's paperwork from Hackensack Ford in NJ.
The major problem is the car's blowby. After a run on the highway, when you come to a stop, the smoke from the open breather pipe makes it look like the car is overheating.
I totally agree with your brake/suspension comment, but, while I would have to use the 335 HP every now and then, I'm not of a mind (or age) to really push it.
I appreciate the input.
Vinyl top (white) was peeling, leather seat covers (white) were all ripped and actually peeling off the seats, four flats (at least one tire was an original Goodyear Polyglas GT E70-14), three wheels were the original Cougar rims with chrome trim rings, four bricks on the roof holding a big sheet of plastic over the closed sunroof, and (insult to injury) the car was equipped with factory air conditioning.
Body (red) actually didn't look too bad, but who knows what's underneath. Lot's of surface rust on the bumbers.
Does anybody have an idea as to what this car would have been worth in clean, driveable condition, not show condition?
A sunroof doesn't change value very much in this case because the car itself is not valuable. So a special or rare piece on a car that is not collectible cannot increase value very much, if that makes sense.
Here's a good price guide, based on actual selling and auction results, not asking prices:
www. manheimgold.com
I think it's Motor Trend that had a very interesting test of a one-off '67 Group 2 Cougar with HiPo 289 (never an option, unfortunately) with Shelby 2x4v, 4.44s and racing clutch. Of the 1% that came with a stick, most were the standard 3-speed so you can see how rare a factory four speed is, but that didn't save my '68 from the scrap heap. As Shifty says, someone has to care.
I'm guessing, but $2,500 sounds kind of low if the car were a decent looker/driver. The 390/335, 4 speed, roof, and factory A/C make this a pretty rare car.
Cougars are like my 58 TBird: nice cars, but no real value. Great cars to show and drive, though, and isn't that why most of us are in the "classics" game?
Unless you're in the game to make a profit, assuming that it doesn't cost an arm and a leg to make the car driveable, who really cares what the value is as long as you enjoy driving it.
Hal
However, you don't realize how many of "classic" car are still around until you own one. There are still a lot of old Impala's and Galaxie's around.
Car had the 400-2v with, I think, a 3.25 rear. Bad smog year, compared to 71's. Car was peppy off the line, but once it hit second gear, it was like a swift kick in the behind.
Downside: I could never get rid of a drivetrain vibration. When I sold the car (93,000 miles), I made sure the new owner drove it with the windows down so he couldn't hear/feel the vibration.
I even installed one of those new fangled 8 track tape players in the car. Not a bad sound, for it's day.
Car was kept so clean that I was able to get my insurance company to replace the rear bumper that had actually been sandblasted by wind. (I worked at the Elizabeth seaport in New Jersey, and strong winds/sand/dirt blowing across the Newark Airport runway actually destroyed the bumper and both sideview mirrors.)
My uncle replaced the carb to try to get better mileage, car never ran right after that. Sold it in 1984 due to the rear quarters rusting through -the interior vinyl was in excellent shape.
Seeing how the parts dept. there was completely clueless and helpless on assisting me in getting touch up paint for the car (Burgundy Metallic - paint code X if anybody knows where a touch up bottle can be found), is there another source for this info?
To the best of my knowledge, the drivetrain in the car is all factory original.
Was the 64 1/2 the first year of the "fastback" in the Galaxie?
Enjoy!
Hal
http://www.galaxieclub.com/memcarpix/63/Mem1443.jpg
This particular model is a '63, which I believe was the first year for that style of roof. The other 2-door hardtop roof looked like this...
http://www.galaxieclub.com/memcarpix/63/Mem407b.jpg
I think the more formal roof was dropped totally for 1964.
Thanks guys!