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Now, I do not think ultimate power is the deciding factor in sales for this class of car, but the two top selling imports best the L-Series in tons of other categories too. Size is important, and the L Series is a little small. Its interior materials are not as nice. Its refinement level isn't as high. One of these can be overlooked, but when it comes in second best in all categories, it will be stomped on in the marketplace and it was.
Hopefully Saturn's Epsilon sedan will be another story! GM has to give it the 240 HP 3.9L at least as an option!
No news on whether its once bread and butter small car will be revamped. I guess they are focusing on segments they currently do not play in.
I hope Saturn gets it together with this revision.
My biggest wish for the Ion is that they convert it to a hatchback or liftback.
But that's not in the cards for now.
Is this the replacement for the L series?
Any speculation on whether the Ion will morph into the Maxx as far as sales goes? Will Saturn drop the Maxx and concentrate on the Maxx, Relay, Vue and any specialty vehicles they develop and build?
All the negative talk on IONs and Saturn make me nervous. I am thinking the safe buy is the Honda?
As the ION's a delta platform and the Maxx is an Epison platform, I can't see the ION morphing into a Maxx, though Saturn could probably convert the Delta into a Hatchback if they really wanted to. Then again, supposedly the Maxx is not selling all that well.
I like the styling of the Civic better but that is a personal choice. Plastic body panels are a big plus for the ION if you live in an urban area.
The $1400 in up-front costs is a serious consideration in favour of the ION. However, you will more than make up that different in the Civic due to better fuel economy and resale. In this latter area, Saturns used to be good but the ION has been a weak seller which means resale will be poor.
The Civic feels roomier inside due to the flat floor in the rear and it has much better seats.
Interior quality of the ION is now quite good so that is also not as much of a consideration in favour of the Civic as before.
IMHO the Honda handles and drives better overall but the ION also has a nice quiet ride and a bit more power. If you are going for a 5 speed, the Honda is the best in the business, however I like the auto tranny in GM's cars better than Hondas. Keep in mind the Civic with automatic and a/c running full blast on a hot day is a bit gutless (I drive a 5-speed).
You cannot go wrong with either of these cars.
1. Air Conditioning drips into the passenger foot area. Brought in to be fixed twice. Still drips
2. Hood would not open. Brought in to be fixed, that was fine until the cable connected to the inside latch snapped off breaking both the cable and the handle, thus requiring me to bring my car back for further repairs.
3. On the highway the engine started to race uncontrollably when switching between gears, luckily I was near the emergency lane and could pull over and shut the car off. Brought in to be fixed. Was told by the techs they could not find the problem and that they reset the on-board computer.
4. Blower motor for ac/heater made scraping noises...finally fixed on the second visit.
5. Headlights casings have a permanent haze from moisture finding its way into the case.
6. And finally today, as of this posting the rod that holds the hood up when it opens snapped apart so that the trunk has to be held with a hand in order to keep if from cracking me on the head when I put stuff in the trunk.
In my opinion these cars may run well but they are extremely cheap in construction. I will NEVER buy a Saturn again, in spite of the great customer service.
My first Saturn was flawless even after 215,000 km. Any small annoyances were easily handled by the dealer or cheap to repair after the warrantee expired.
My second Saturn had far more quality gremlins and most were fixed by the dealer who took 4-5 times to deal with some of the creaks and rattles on the interior. Again - nothing major and the car performed flawlessly, reliably and economically.
Surprisingly my Honda has not been prefect quality wise either. Lots of little interior problems - all of which have been handled by he dealer. Again nothing big and the car is very reliable. Even our 2002 Toyota Corolla had a couple of silly things - it is better than the Honda overall in terms of quality.
No car is perfect but as long as you enjoy the car and trust that your dealer will work with you on problems you should be fine.
I always buy and service locally. I always haggle for a good deal overall (trade in etc) but I am not a "grinder" in terms of price. Others may get another $100 dollars of the price of the car but I always get a little extra attention on warrantee items.
We have had an Ion2 for over a year and it's been nearly flawless. Aside from a dud here and there which you will get from ANY car company, most Ion owners here are very happy. My wife commutes with the car and it's been a perfect choice and we love our dealer. How many Honda owners can say that? I know I despised mine.
Extremely variable quality, fer sure...some folks got good ones!
The speedometer gauges being in the middle of the dash looked weird to me when I first looked at the car - but after driving it for a few minutes, I got used to it very quickly and in fact, it actually seemed easier to view than in the conventional location.
The polymer panels are great - I know I won't be getting as upset about dings as I normally do when my wife goes shopping.
The best thing about the car was the value for the money - hands down. No car in its class provided the same value as the Ion. We got the 2004 clearance incentives ($1,000 off + 2,500 litres of gas @ 20 cents off per litre) from GM + the model we chose (Ion3 auto, air, cruise, power group, am/fm/cd, 16" alum alloys, rear spoiler)was the service manager's demo that had 1,500 km on it which got us another $1,000 off, so we really saved a bundle on this car. When the salesperson told me how low the monthly payments were,I thought he was going to also tell us about a huge initial down payment (thats usually the way it works, right?). Then he told us the down payment was zero (ie no freight and all that stuff) - we only paid about $200 up front to cover off the licencing and registration, etc. So we have a beautiful new car, my wife loves it and I especially love the price - A HAPPY COUPLE!
Gear Ratios
1st. 4.69
2nd. 2.94
3rd. 1.92
4th. 1.30
5th. 1.00
Final Drive 2.60
Now after lokking at the gear ratios of the Ion, its not wonder why accelretion and mileage are disapointing. For a car the weights 10% less the L-series, why isn't the 0-60 time any better. My guess is in the gearing. First gear is super tall, then there is big drop ratio wise to Second. Third and Fourth and Fifth gears seem to be a little screwy. IMHO fifth gear is a waste because it isn't a true overdrive gear, but a direct drive top gear. And What is with such tall final drive ratio, that would make sense on V8 car from the late 70's. On paper the 5 speed A/T made sense but in reality in was a expensive waste, over the existing 4T40E Transaxle from GM.
I noted this with the 2003 ION 5 speed - as rbenton said, its gearing was way too tall.
I like the plastic fenders, steel timing chain, 140 hp motor and looks. I have had cars with timing belts and getting them changed every 60,000 miles was costly. The steel timing chain should cut that cost. Service with my Saturn dealer has been excellent. I also own a 97 Saturn SC2 and a 91 Saturn SC and pleased with them. I bought the 2005 Saturn because they gave me a great $1750 loyalty rebate off the sticker price.....Go Saturn !
If they can light up the window switches in the VUE, why not the ION?
~alpha
Anyway, we love it. When we bought the ION in 2003, my wife wanted a VUE--however, our finances dictated the price tag of the ION. For 2005, Saturn changed the headlights, wheels, gauges and cloth seat material of the VUE, so I'm glad we got an '05. It has power heated seats which have come in very handy in our 23 degree morning weather. The flat rear floor and increased dimensions make loading and unloading our kids much easier as well. Overall, we are very happy with our "upgrade."
Nov. 03 - Bought the vehicle. It had a scratched armrest that needed to be replaced.
Dec. 03 - Started having problems with static in the radio. Radio is replaced for the first time.
March 04 – Continued problems with static in radio. Replaced it for a second time, and replaced recalled fuel filter. Also replaced the retained accessory power software, also recalled.
April 04 - Continued problems with static in radio and it is replaced for a third time. Also complained of an idle problem while going downhill. It was tested and found to have no problem.
Aug. 04 – Radio is finally recalled by Saturn and an updated replacement is installed. I complained of a thumping noise coming from the front of the car when going over bumps at low speed. The front antisway bar bushings were determined to be defective and they were both replaced. Also, a grinding noise was coming from the VTI transaxle. They replaced the transmission case cover assembly, valve body assembly, and the oil cooler lines.
Jan. 05 - Brought in vehicle because of a grinding noise when first starting up, and a whistling noise coming from the vent fan. They found nothing wrong.
Jan. 05 – Brought back vehicle for the same grinding noise and they found the entire transmission to be defective. They replaced it. They also replaced the HVAC blower motor to fix the whistling problem. The problem still exists.
The car has less than 25,000 miles on it and is only fully covered by the warranty until 36,000 miles. If the warranty was not in place, the repairs listed above would have cost me almost $11,000. Not to mention the costs involved in car rentals, and the inconvenience of continuously having to bring my brand new car back to the dealer over and over, then pick it up again.
Now, I'm not here to bash Saturn or to disagree with anyone who loves theirs. I just wanted to share my experience and compare it to others. Anyone can e-mail me with their stories to JoeRecording@aol.com. I have contacted a Lemon Law attorney who seems to think I have a very strong case, and I would be very interested to know of others experiences with legal pursuits regarding the Ion.
Unfortunately, this car has been a huge disappointment, and has not lived up to the quality standards that I thought Saturn was known for.
Well, I hope you don't as unwarranted law suits like these are what ruined the system. At least Bush is now making moves to limit some of the BS.
Joe, I'm sorry you have been upset. However, look at what you've got. You say the arm rest was scratched when you bought it. It was not the car's fault; but, it was replaced and you should be happy. You say you had radio problems. They replaced it every time you complained. Maybe the radio really had problems, maybe it was just your opinion. It's hard to believe so many radios could all be so bad. Anyway, they replaced it and you should be happy. They took care of two recalls. Name a car that has no recalls. That's right, you can't. Anyway, they got you fixed up and you should be happy. They replaced your transmission. I'm sorry they had to do it, but they did and you should be happy. They also replaced your fan motor. These are the things the warranty is for. Like I said, I know it sucks to go through all of this. However, you never said anything about Saturn not taking care of you or not wanting to help you. That is what Saturn is all about. It was easy to buy your car, wasn't it? They take good care of you in the service department, don't they? When you trade it for a new Saturn, they will give you more for it than it's worth (according to the "book"). I'm on my 4th Saturn and each time they have given me more for my car than it was "worth." On my 2003 ION, the book said it was worth anout $8000. I had been offered $7000 for it from one dealer and $7500 for it by another dealer. My Saturn dealer gave me $8900. All cars have problems. What makes Saturn so great is the way they take care of you before, during and after the sale. BTW, what is your lemon law case? You have to have the same problem occur and be fixed three times before you can file. Your radio is the only thing to act up so many times. You really think GM owes you a new car because your radio needed replacing a few times? If you have an attorney who says they do, then you ought to avoid the attorneys who advertise on the back cover of the phone book.
I need to correct a few things in your paragraph, as you obviously didn't read all of mine very closely. The radio problem was not an 'opinion'. It was a defect in them that took Saturn a long time to figure out. I kept hearing it in each radio because it was there in each radio. You're right, it's hard to believe so many radios were bad, but they were. Another thing you missed, yes they replaced the HVAC fan, but the problem still exists, meaning I will have to bring it back AGAIN for this same problem.
Ok, another thing. I should be happy? About what? About having to take this brand new car into the dealer for repairs on an average of almost once every two months? Each time forcing me to lose work time and inconveniencing me in my trips back and forth to the dealership, which is at least a half hour from my house? I never said anything about Saturn's service, because that doesn't have anything to do with this. What good is outstanding service if the car they manufacture is unreliable? This car has less than 25,000 miles on it. What's going to happen at 36,000 miles when the warranty runs out? Should I be happy if these problems continue to happen on it then too?
"You really think GM owes you a new car because your radio needed replacing a few times?" Woah. I never said anything about being owed a new car by anyone. And obviously, my car has had MANY more problems than just the ones concerning the radio. I said I've consulted with a Lemon Law attorney about this and they think I have a case. They're not on the back cover of any phone book, either. But that was a very clever comment on your part. I've actually consulted with more than one attorney, and quite a few people who have gone through similar problems with other manufacturers and have used the Lemon Laws to get assistance. Your facts are incorrect concerning what is needed to file.
I'd like to see anyone who would be "happy" after having this many problems with a brand new car.
Anyone compared a 2005 to a 2003? I see the interiors have been upgraded nicely.
I sure hope so, because the resale or trade-in value of these cars anyhwere else is close to nil after a few years. I have great synpathy for Joe, having seen a coworker with a L-series go thru a similar degree of ridiculous problem-diagnosis and repair attempt only to have the dealer give up. Part of the ownership exoperience should not have to be bringing your car back to the dealer every month to replace pieces that were poorly built, poorly installed, or ill-designed in the first place.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
What should we have to pay for the extended (7/100) warranty? What about the 7/70 powertrain warranty?
I have heard there are some good discounts available.
Traditionally, side impacts are MUCH harder to deal with that frontal or frontal offset impacts, due to the smaller amount of space in which to absorb the impact and the small amount of material to absorb the impact.
One major issue that is emerging with the IIHS's test, is that the impact in this type of crash is so severe that frames are bending and the passenger safety zone is severely impacted. Nowadays, very few front crashes (NHTSA or IIHS) involve such a severe deformation of the passenger area that serious injuries (crushing) results. In front crashes the main issue nowadays is how to reduce deceleration forces, not how to avoid intrusions into the passenger area.
Not so with side impact crashes. While the NHTSA has passes most cars in their much less severe side impact test, it has also highlighted some cars (Focus ZX3 is one I know about) for poor protection with risk of injury due to intrusion(rear seat in the ZX3). On the other hand, the NHTSA has given some cars up to 5 star ratings (Golf sith side curtain, I believe) which has created a false sense of security which this new, more severe, IIHS test deflates. In fact the IIHS so ups the ante that of the 16 small cars tested, only two barely passed; the rest were poor with life threatening injuries for the occupants. Keep in mind that a small car has a much more severe weight disadvantage in a side impact from a truck/SUV than a mid or full sized car (and not all mid or full sized cars are passing either).
Now, here's the punchline: Toyota Corolla and the new Chevy Cobalt (which is supposed to be virtually identicals structurally to the Ion, but apparently isn't), each with side curtain air bags, both passed, albeit barely (acceptable, not good). I am amazed that a two year old new model (the Corolla) was able to pass and that anything small from GM is able to pass.
Wait, there's more, and this is the part that blows me away: the current "tweaked" Ion failed miserably. I don't mean failed due to an unexpected head impact, but due to extreme intrusion and almost collapse of the body structure.
Whoa, what happened? I thought the Cobalt and Ion were both on the same global GM "platform". I thought that the Cobalt and Ion were identical under the skin. But apparently that is not so. I am very grateful I didn't buy an Ion last year. And this year, although the Ion is supposed to be tweaked to be closer to Cobalt quality (body integrity, noise, etc.) it clearly isn't strong were it counts.
Kudos to Chevrolet for spending extra time on the CAD/CAM computers and supercomputers to get the body strength of the Cobalt to such an amazing level. Shame on Chevrolet and Toyota for not making curtain airbags standard on these small cars already. (I expect a little more from GM since they made ABS standard on the Cavalier for years.) I am hoping that GM will make curtain airbags on the Cobalt, Malibu, and Impala standard for the 06 model line, since they have stated their goal is for universal adoption.
I think based on the test results, Chevy needs to promptly discontinue the Ion and rebadge the Cobalt to sell as an Ion. If other people pick up on this IIHS report, sales of small cars are going to plummet - this is the first solid evidence that mid-sized cars are significantly safer than small cars. Also, I think Saturn has a great service reputation and continuing the Ion in its present form is a potential PR disaster, especially following on the heels of the Vue cracked rear axles during the NHTSA's tip over test.
I think it would be a great career move for GM to announce, in light of the IIHS test results, that all remaining 05 Cobalts will come with side curtain airbags standard. And make them standard on the ION too, although airbags alone won't solve the ION problem.
One final note. If you read the reviews on some cars, the Camry I believe and the Malibu, you will see that the IIHS notes "running" or mid-year safety upgrades; I belive the Malibu was given additional door padding (some manufacturers believe better door padding is as effective as, or more so, than actual torso airbags). I'd love to see some mid-month upgrades to the ION.
We usually take our Vue when we go out with the baby and at least it has excellent crash tests.