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Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans
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Good luck.
TO: "RickPCT"; 1) go for the extra 1' of space. It may not sound like much but...pack some people in there (surely you haul friends/family/neighbors/pets, etc.) and then try to get one or two things in the back of the "smaller" van - good luck. 2) I think you'll do just fine with the 3.3 engine.
TO: "drwilsc"; A quick minivan? Please don't tell me you also have a spoiler on your van. We had a '96 Plymouth Grand Voyager with a 3.3 and it was great. We now have a 2003 T&C with the 3.3 and it too is perfect. We take about six trips/year that average 20 hours/roundtrip (packed with two kids, plenty of baggage, etc., sometimes bags on the roof) and the vans have been PLENTY peppy. Granted we have to sometimes kick it into overdrive but the van performs wonderfully.
- R
kirstie_h
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As far as peppy minivans go, I too was satisfied with the acceleration of my '96 DGC with the 3.3 but then WOW!!! . . . my 03 Ody truly blows the doors off of my old DGC. I have been amazed at how much more power it has and what is does for my driving.
Rick
Dodge/Chrysler sucks. You must be a fool or just too cheap to buy one--like my in-laws. Stick with Odyssey or Sienna since they are the cream of the minivan crop.
Dodge is a piece of crap.
I thought everyone knew that.
They drove differently. The DC drove more like a sports car. It had stiffer handling. The Ody drove more like a sedan. It was more comfortable and had relatively easier ride. The things I liked about the DC over the ODY were the heated windshield near the bottom where the wipers were in off position. All vehicles should have them. The stereo in the DC was so much better than the Ody which was pathetic. The roof rack on the DC was easily adjusted. You needed a torx driver to adjust the Ody rack. The DC had much more cargo spaces in the door area etc.
I preferred the Ody one temperature setting heating A/C system. I liked the auto closing / opening doors. The drivers seat was electrically adjustable. The Ody had traction control. Even though the stereo sucked, I liked the steering wheel controls.
I got rid of the DC at 72 k. miles with bad transmission .I drove it to the Honda dealer
I had a Honda transmision cooler installed . That transmission failed at 68K miles. I was lucky to get it to the Honda dealer on my way home from work. It had no reverse.
21 days and at the third rebuilt transmission later I got my Odyssey back. This was before Honda extended the warranty on the 99. They had extended it on all the other years. Honda did cover the $6000 plus labor quote my dealer gave me on a new transmission including trade in of the old transmission. That was quite different than the "it's out of warranty. too bad" story my Dodge dealer gave me.
I did not expect Honda to cover a second bad transmission. I traded it in a week after I got it out of the shop. BTW both minivans were dealer maintained at all the appropriate intervals.
I would recommend that a minivan be driven no more than 50 K miles before trading it in
Hardly true!!!
So you think all Dodge/Chrysler owners are fools huh! You think we are too cheap to buy an Odyssey or Sienna.
Well let me tell you why I didn't buy an Odyssey. First I think used Ody's are to pricey. I prefer to buy a used vehicle over new because financial it makes better since to let someone else pay full price for it and if anything should go wrong in the first few years of ownership, they can pay to have it fixed.
You save a lot of money when you buy a used Dodge Grand Caravan that is two years old and they are still pretty much new. Our 2001 Grand Caravan EX had 37,027 miles was priced at $26,670 without taxes brand new. When we purchased it this year, in September, we paid $20,923.24. This included all taxes, extended Maximum Care Bumper to Bumper Warranty to 75,000 miles or May 2007(which includes a $100 deductible per every visit, first day car rental up to 100 miles free and 30$ a day rental car allowance, $1,000 trip interruption and road side assistance which included sign and go towing and roadside assistance up to $100 each occurance), acid Rain environmental protection, environmental corrosion protection, sound shield system (applied under van to prevent underbody abrasion and sound shield), security system, rear cargo orginazer and free oil changes for as long as we own the van.
What did you get with your new or used Ody for that price? I believe Dodge/Chrysler's are just as reliable as Ody's. I've read the problem forms and Ody's are having there share of problems if not more than the redesigned 2001 and up Dodge/Chrysler vans. As far as I'm concerned, Ody's Sienna have not proven to me that they are more reliable then Dodge/Chrysler vans. How many Ody's have made it over 100,000 miles with limited problems? Or 100,000 miles period? I like the slick style of the Dodge, the enterior is very comfortable in all seats and very appealing, everything about the van is family friendly (you can figure stuff out without the owners manuel), I prefer power and speed in an engine, the versitle seating arrangements, stereo/CD/Tape player and graphic equalizer, power sliding door and left gate, removable center console, safty features (four wheel ABS brakes, 3 ABS channels, 4 wheel disc brakes, driver and passenger front/side air bags, side impact bars, ABS and driveline traction control, six adjustable head restraints and height adjustable front and rear seatbelts, front seatbelt pre-tensioners and child saftey anchors in rear and third row seats), triple zone air/heat, 4 captain chairs and 50/50 split rear bench (I don't like the "Magic Seat"), over head console/storage, 4 12V DC power accessory outlets, overdrive trans., complete roof rack with cross bars, 8 way power driver seat, leg room in all seats, smooth, stable and quite ride.
I don't plan on trading my van in either so i could care less about resale value.
So if you want to continue to pay just about full price for a vechicle that is a few years old, go ahead. You want to spend all that money on a vechicle that isn't as perfect and reliable as many thought, to each his own. As for me, I am very happy and pleased with my investment.
Personally, I would never buy an "American" brand vehicle just because I think they look uglier than hell on the inside and outside and because of their bad reputation in the PAST. Personally, I would much rather buy a vehicle made in Japan because I have always thought Japaneses in JAPAN have more pride in their work. Seems like most of us Americans just don't give a crap about our work as long as we got paid.
But the name calling was just for my sick idea of fun. Now that it's Friday, I apologize for any offenses:-)
I know better than to think I'm smarter than anyone else. Just having fun.
But I do think my in-laws are stupid:-)
I just think American Car companies are unwise compared to Japanese companies.
Back when I was in college, I first heard that Lexus had bought a design from an American in California because none of the American car companies liked it!
So a Japanese company was willing to be open minded and bought the car design from an American.
I just think Japanese companies are more wise and more open minded. They do a lot more research on consumers and give the consumers what they want.
I do truly wish that Chevy, Ford, Dodge, Buick, etc. got all the car awards instead of any of the Japanese or German companies. I do.
I'm an American and I would love for ALL things American to be the greatest in the world.
Unfortunately, it's not so.
Hey, my stereo component system is made right here in the good USA! It's not Sony, Pioneer, Kenwood, etc. It's Acurus and NHT.
Another complaint: Why is the NAV screen on the Japanese cars like 6-7 inches, but on the Chrysler it's 4 inches? That sucks.
They just don't look right to me.
Have a good weekend.
Having spent hundreds of thousands of miles in both I can tell you they are so close in overall performance that most people couldn't tell one from the other if the name badges were removed. That's no surprise, who do you think Honda studied the most when designing the Odyssey?
But quality is still an issue for DC. The new van is supposed to be available in March with all fold flat seats. Tempting, but until they match Honda and Toyota for long term quality (as opposed to the virtually useless statistic of intial product defects) DC will continue to struggle and their customers will continue to take in on the chin at resale.
Note DC is raising the bar on "magic seats". They are calling them "stow and go". Early introduction 05 model will have both second and third row fold completely flat into wells in the floor (unlike Nissan's semi-flat floor), and third row is 60/40 split for maximum flexibility. To be introduced early next year. There are links posted in recent discussion in the "Are Chrysler Minivans falling behind the Minivan Competition" Edmunds discussion.
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If you want to buy a van that is built by Japanese workers, you better not buy a Ody because they aren't built in Japan. Even the great Lexus is being made in Canada.
In the end, I took a 2004 Odyssey when I had to lay the money on the table.
I agreed with you on the toe room though.
We've had to replace heads on our 1998 DC at 67000 miles. Paid for pretensonor to be replaced for the belt and are currently getting subtle signs the transmission is going. I know DC vans have bad resale value and reliability issues. Looked at sites for the Honda and there were transmission, vibration and brakes issues with it. Not sure if these problems are fixed for the 2004. Not sure if we should spend the extra cash for the Honda plus have a loan or just buy the DC Van for cash. Any thoughts greatly appreciated.
I bought a brand new '96 DGC and put 114,000 miles on it before I traded it for a new '03 Ody EX-L. The DGC served us well - only about $800 of non-routine maintenance costs but I did have to make several irritating re-call trips and a few irritating problems during the full warranty period. It was a comfortable car. By the way . . . the reason we got leather on the Ody was because the leather seats were much more comfortable than the cloth seats.
Good luck with the decision.
The 2003 Dodge Caravan has had 3 recalls and 31 TSB.
The 2004 Dodge Caravan has had 2 recalls and 7 TSB's already.
The 2004 Honda Odyssey has zero recalls and zero TSB's.
That is quite an eye opener. We just might strain our finances $5000 dollars to buy that Honda afterall.
Thanks to all for the input.
TSB's are not necessarily indications of problems, they are just issued as Technical Service Bulletins, (hence the name) to their dealers on how to deal with certain issues that may not be covered in their standard maintenance manuals.
Also, beware Honda does not release TSB's to the general public, which is unlike all other manufacturers. (Do they have something to hide?)
I would think long and hard about spending that much more money just to get an Odyssey. You can save that money and use it for any maintenance issues that might arise and if they don't arise, you still have the $9K. $9K can go a long ways for repairs, and it looks like the Caravan is covered by an extensive warranty anyway.
But, if I read your message correctly, you're looking into a short wheelbase caravan and a 2004 Odyssey?. You should also look into a 2004 Sienna CE with package 3 (curtain airbags, stability control etc.) with an invoice of $23.4K/MSRP $25.7K. Since Honda is updating Ody this year, you may lose some of its value fast, but with the Sienna that will not be the case if you can get a good deal up front. If resale doesn't bother you, I would go with the 2004 DGC SXT almost fully loaded available in some places for under $20K new. Odyssey tends to be rougher/ noisier for people moving from Chrysler because Honda doesn't isolate the ride.
If you plan to keep the van a long time, then you need to take a long hard look at comparative reliability records.
If you plan to own 4 years or less, you need to take a long hard look at resale value retention.
The trade-off may be worth it if the DC van is thousands less.
4 of them are for aftermarket replacement fuel filters that happen to be used in the DC vans. Which you wouldn't need for a very long time, long after the recall isssue was resolved
The other one is for a lightbulb in a 3rd party running board
In other words, in things that actually matter, the recall score is REALLY: DC 0, Honda 0.
I'll leave the rest of the cost/benefit analysis up to you, but from where I'm looking, the recall situation is a draw
Steve, Host
With just 7100 miles on it, you have to wonder why someone parted with it? Was it in an accident? Did you get a CARFAX on it? 2004 Grand Caravan SXT can be had for $20,500 or less, but they are going fast.
If 2003 Caravan SXT is accident free I have to agree that the nine grand in the pocket seems like the way to go. I had the ultimate van lemon - a 1995 Ford Windstar and even with very poor reliability managed just $5000 in non-routine maintenance over 125,000 miles, but repair costs are very low in rural wisconsin and transmissions (Dodge's biggest issue) tend to be expensive.
The $24,000 price tag seems too high for the 2004 Odyssey. I assume you are looking at an LX. Invoice is $22032 + $540 destination. Many posts in the Honda Odyssey prices paid are showing invoice or less for shrewd negotiators. $23,000 is the maximum you should pay. Thus, I think $1000 comes off the Ody price.
Last thought - Honda doesn't have the side curtain protection yet, but do score better in safety versus DC, which I think scored average in crash tests.
Either is probably not a bad buy - go with your heart and never look back.
We did check out the MPV, my husband thought the ride was rough, stiff and too narrow inside and did not want it.
We got two prices on the Honda Odyssey one was 24,600 out the door with all taxes and fees included. The other was 22,799 plus taxes and motor vehicle expenses. The atmosphere in the Honda dealerships were not one of desperation to sell the 2004 before the new re-models come out. They do not budge much, then again they don't have too. Quality Product, at a price too high for us. We realized we were selling stock, bonds just to get the Honda, and it you have to do that you simply cannot afford it. We will buy a Dodge 2004, hopefully for a great price.
Thanks to all for your inputs and advice.
unless you like misery please buy the honda. I am on my second grand caravan (did not learn from first mistake) transmission last 60000 miles, ac evaporator leaks every 39000 miles, transmission leaks repair twice, oil leaks, replaced brakes on front every 30000 miles, replace axles and cv joints due to vibration at 50000, car eats tires no one can say why, my cassette player broke under warranty and is now broken again, belt makes noise and has to be replaced every year. I spent over 1500.00 dollars so far this year and my ac evaporator is leaking again. $1050 to repair, guess it is going to be a long hot summer. Trade in value is only 4000.00 so I cannot afford to get something else. I will never buy American again
And what's the prblem w/ changing brake pads at 30K miles? Seems about right...
Thanks
1. The easiest and cheapest - buy two portable DVD players with 6 - 7" display. That will run you about $600 ($300 each).
2. If you don't need to see the movie in front. Sony has a package that includes a dvd player and a 7" overhead LCD display. You can place the DVD player basically anywhere you want. About $800 plus the cost of the bezel.
3. I have a Pioneer AVH-P7480 headunit with built-in 7" screen hooked up with a Sony XVM-R75 7" LCD using the bezel I mentioned above. I can watch the movie/ music video both front (through the headunit) and in back (Sony LCD) while the car is moving. If you don't have the Infinity system in your DC Van, you can install the system yourself in about 2 - 3 hours. If you have the Infinity system, I recommend you have the pros do the installation for you because you will need to bypass the Infinity's amp for each speakers. My system also included a Navigation system (installed in CD changer location) and everything I mentioned above cost me $2500 (not including labor) a year ago. You can probably get a better system (Pioneer AVIC-N1 DVD and Navigation in one unit) and the same Sony LCD for much lower price now.
Hope this help. By the way, I have a 2001 Chrysler T&C Ltd.
Which is the better choice?
Reliability
If you find Consumer Reports data "reliable," you will note that the Toyota rating is above the Town & Country. Keep in mind, however, that a used 2002 Sienna with 38,00 miles will always be at a older use point compared to any vehicle bought new. Now Toyota makes a very good van, but despite the religious-like tendency by many to treat anything Toyota as a deity, Toyota machinery does wear and they do break even if it's less than somebody else's machinery.
Residual
The Sienna will retain it's true value better than the Town & Country. If you are a short term buyer and will put less than 6-7000 miles a year, the used Sienna will be an advantage for you. Because of Chrysler's 7 year 70,000 mile warranty, moderate term ownership will benefit the Town & Country. If you are very long term (10+ years), it doesn't matter.
Bottom Line
A lot depends on what your needs and likes are. The Town & Country is very popular or a reason. They are smooth, quiet, comfortable, and nice long distance travellers. But that's a subjective opinion, too. The Sienna is an excellent driver and is bells and whistles ladened. The cost-of-ownership numbers have dropped quite a bit since 1999. My company has a fleet of them and the newer they are the better constructed. Most Chrysler mini-van problems are due to assembly, so your more likely to have an issue in the first year compared to a new Toyota.
I hope I've helped.
Best regards,
Dusty
You write well too...I appreciate that
Andy
Good Luck with your T&C.
Wow, what a difference between the vehicles with the ODY a much nicer van to drive than the T&C IMHO.
The T&C standard 3.3L engine with 4 speed auto is disappointing (poor acceleration coupled with unimpressive fuel economy) . Clearly a "dog" and deficient compared to the standard 3.5L / 5 speed auto of the Ody. The T&C, with the 3.3, has a hard time getting itself going. The Ody, if desired, will pass most other vehicles in the mountains of Colorado while getting mileage in the mid 20's.
The T&C drivers seat is quite uncomfortable compared to the Ody (also my opinion only).
The Odyssey is a good van and a used one was definitely in the running but as I think I said before my son couldnt fit in it. I find the seats in the Touring model about the same in terms of comfort as the 02 Odyssey I test drove
So again, for my wants and needs, the T&C worked out fine.
This is andy1. Here is the deal I got for my 2004 T&C touring. It was $31815 list,new with warranty. The dealer wanted to move them off the lot so they offered 23486, final price 23000. No trade in, no rebate. I put 4000 down. It looks like when people say "out the door" they mean the price with whatever down payment they paid, so if you figure that in the price was $19000. Financing with Chrylser at 4%. In my case, timing was everything, as just the Friday before (this was a Monday) the offer was 24315.
I think I got a great deal. I dont want or need fold in the floor seats so I dont miss that feature of the 2005s. I agree with most of the reviews about the lack of some fairly standard features, but again, most of them I dont really need. My kids are grown so this is my car - I am 51 and this is not for my wife or my kids, but for me. For my wants and needs it is almost perfect.
I looked at mid-size SUVs, other minivans, and crossovers such as the Malibu Maxx, and the T&C fit me the best. I would have liked the 2005 Sienna, but the outright deceptive pricing from Toyota quickly drives that way out of reach in terms of price. To get even basic features you are quickly looking at $26000, and the $23000 I paid for the T&C stretches my budget as it is. I also had a good offer for a used Odyssey, but my son, who is bigger than I am (I am 6'4") could not fit in the front passenger seat due to the depth of the glove compartment. So the deal I got on a new T&C worked out well for me.
After the first 500 miles, I think I love this car. I just hope the reliability reports are wrong in my case! Its black with black and grey interior so the "soccer Mom" thing is alleviated quite a bit. As my wife said, "You want something that you can haul your stuff, your family, and your dog...all at the same time." With this car, I think I have it.
And thanks again to coachtd and dusty.
The Ody EX 3.5L has slightly better performance than the 3.3L GC Sport but the GC Sport delivers better fuel economy. I like the power sliding doors of the Ody EX and the "Magic Seat" but the Ody EX lacks the GC Sport overhead console with compass/outside temperature and trip computer AND the separately controlled temperature for driver and front passenger.
Each van has advantages. Which advantages are the most important?