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Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans
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Comments
Here's how I see the advantages(not in any order)
Honda
1. Ride and handling - matter of personal opinion, I drove both and there wasn't any difference.
2. Fit and Finish - This could easily go in DCX favor, especially when you factor in poor fit glove box doors, and ill fitting sliding doors.
3. 0-60 times - Ohhh wow!! got me by 1.5 seconds here! Remind me not to race you at a red light!!
4. Standard safety equipment - standard, yeah but available but DCX has some std equipment that's not hyped to death like kneebags and auto flashers for door opening.
5. Brakeing - Ohhh wow, add 4 feet to my stops after ripping out from a red light trying to catch an Oddy, while some babe in a Miata is beating us both!!!
6. Engine and transmission - My DCX vans have always be a pleasure to drive
7. Fuel economy - Ohhh yeah, good winner here (NOT), go poll what Oddy owners are getting close to EPA numbers - not many!! Mine's not broken in and I get 25mpg on highway, 19 around town.
Dodge
1. Price
2. Interior flexibility
3. Mature product(possibility of less recalls) - LOL, not possibility, but ACTUAL less recalls. and if you go back years and compare recalls....Honda would be lucky to have less total recalls!!
4. More available options
5. Flexible configuration to meet any needs..i.e..short wheelbase, long wheelbase, 4cyl vs. 6 cyl
6. Reliability
7. dealer network and service
8. fuel economy
9. quiet ride
10. lower repair cost to body damage if in accident
11. better value
I think the experts are right on the Caravan is a GOOD but a little old. The price difference and available options make it attractive for some buyers.
But for my money 180.00 over invoice,the EX-L with RES works great for me!! What dealer did you get this from, is he on this planet???
WOW!! I think he's saying it's PROBABLY why there's fewer recalls.
**But for my money 180.00 over invoice,the EX-L with RES works great for me!! What dealer did you get this from, is he on this planet??? **
I'd like to know too... Thanks!!
Hell, the SXT got 17MPG and the EX 19 in consumer reports testing. This is not my fault. Eveyone says the overall fuel economy is better still not my fault. iIowned a Dodge for 4+ years now that was my fault. Did you look at all the problems that the long term 2001 DGC had 10 problems/recalls in 2 years and 37,000miles. Reliabilty was like mine BAD!!!! The 1999 honda had 3 problems and 1 was brake pads in 43,000 miles. If you think reliability is good thats your opinion no what all the auto reporting places (consumer reports et all) says again not my fault. Read all the reviews DGC poor fit and finish, Honda Odyssey good fit and finish. Now dennis you said you were in the car business so you would know well all these people are in the car business so they know (Right??) If you what to get from point A to point B and don't want to spend the money the Dodge is the car for you. Also you can say the same things over and over again but the dodge is GOOD and the Honda is Excellent in most reviewers minds. Dodge average reliability. Honda above average. You may have paid less for you van but I think I'll pay less at the pump and the dealer and that is just my opinion(common sense)
Read all the reviews DGC poor fit and finish,I
"Inside the Chrysler’s styling is at least adequate, with sophisticated instrument graphics adding a touch of class. In the upper trim lines the seats continue to be upholstered in either a heavy grained leather (Touring) or a combination of this leather and suede (Limited). Both are attractive. I especially like the leather in the Touring. In either trim the Chrysler’s interior is the most upscale of any minivan. For 2005 the trim on the dash and doors has been revised for a higher-quality, even more upscale look and feel. Fashionable faux metal bits further improve the interior’s ambiance. I personally prefer the Touring, which does without the Limited’s fairly convincing faux wood"
Here is the other information from the edmunds town and country review that I never see anybody post here! All I see is the tight as a drum quote. I'll give you the pros and cons from edmunds review remember this is a top of the line chrysler.
Pros Excellent ride and handling, good low-end pull from 3.8-liter V6, roomy and luxurious interior, innovative fold-flat second- and third-row seats.
Cons Unimpressive reliability history, major safety features remain optional on lower-level models, no stability control
Chow!!
"I only hear how great the dodge/chrysler vans are here comeon guys show me one reviewer that says dodge/chrysler is the top minivan. All you have is your opinions."
I have never said the Dodge was a great van. That comes from 99% of the Honda owners about the Ody. They are always cutting down the Dodge van. I am saying the Dodge is a very good van and even though the Ody is a hair faster, turns a few inches shorter, supposedly gets a little better mileage, it's got it's share of problems Dodge/Chryslers minivans don't have. Noise, wind, sliding doors,etc. The difference in problems between the two vans can easily be seen in the posts on 2005 Hondas and 2005 Dodge/Chryslers. Very, very few 2005 Dodge/Chrysler owners are complaining with problems with their vans and they've been out months longer than Honda's. But still Honda owners act like nothing goes wrong with their vans.
No VSC can't get it no matter how much you pay. I personally like the safety for everyone, too bad it prices some out of the market!
When you talk about resale values, have any of you guys ever heard of the laws of supply and demand? When you have an limited amount of product available (Honda Odyssey's) versus a large amount of product available (DC minivans).
Well how does this explain the Accord and Camry resale values. They are the top selling cars but hold way more value than the Dodge Intepid, Ford Tarus, Saturn L series, or Chevy Malibu. Maybe there is a little more to it. YOU THINK!!! And resale value at the end is a good thing to have. I didn't have any at the end with my caravan and Intrepid.
Even what you posted said it had roomy and luxurious interior. Far from what you said before about it.
I like to post the whole review not pick and choose. Edmunds reviews in my opinion are a little short sighted. Here is what consumer reports has to say LOWS- Seat comfort, interior trim materials, some controls and coarse engines.
This clown that rated the Dodge Caravan said it was noiser than the top rated vans. While almost every 2005 Dodge owner that has commented on their van, has bragged on how quiet it is. No wind noise or rattles like many Honda owners have complained of.
He says the engine only puts out adequate performance, when several revewers I have posted, claimed it put out a strong performance and was only less than one second slower than the Honda in the quarter mile.
Then he complains the Dodge hasn't got adjustable arm rests. But no one ever mentions that neither did Toyota or the Saturn. I have never had a car, van or truck with adjustible arm rests. But again, it was his way of belittling the Dodge.
He complained of the controls being (busy). What the heck does busy mean?
He said the Dodge rode well at low speeds but on the highway it was unsettling and floaty.
Read what this one reviewer said about the ride of the Dodge and and what another said of the Honda.
Ride quality is supple and well-controlled on the highway. The rack-and-pinion steering responds nicely and provides good feedback through the steering wheel. The Grand Caravan tracks true at highway speeds, so there's no need for constant, minor steering corrections. Indeed, the Dodge Grand Caravan offers superb driving dynamics. Grand Caravan rides more softly than an SUV, gliding over potholes rather than trying to beat them into submission. It's an excellent choice when transporting passengers on beat up freeways and bumpy urban streets.
As on its passenger cars, Honda tuned that suspension tightly. The vocal engine, decent tire grip, and busy ride quality make it feel connected to the road, and the turning radius is nearly as tight as a sedan's. Like the Accord it's based on, the Odyssey gives the feeling that it can be tossed around corners a bit. Taking it up on the offer ruins the illusion, however, mostly because the capsizing feeling that comes with any aggressive turn reminds you of how high you're perched. That, plus too-slow steering, plus the Odyssey's not-so-mini measurements, make mountain runs a nervous affair. It's probably best to be content with the Odyssey's feel in the city, and best to keep it there
This is from Edmonds,
Instrumented test numbers aren't typically the first item of concern when discussing minivans, but we feel it's important to mention just how quick the T&C feels for a minivan. At the track, it broke the front tires loose when punched from a dead stop, and the automatic transmission delivered positive upshifts above 5,000 rpm. Shorter, tighter gear ratios would provide even quicker acceleration
Does that sound like the engine is just adequate?
Different drivers, different opinions.
Yeah, even those who need a new Minivan and can't afford $24k for a minivan. Ohh wait, they can buy a new Dodge for less than $20k...ohh they may not have VSC but it would probably beat their old vehicle in many areas.
Well how does this explain the Accord and Camry resale values. They are the top selling cars but hold way more value than the Dodge Intepid, Ford Tarus, Saturn L series, or Chevy Malibu. Maybe there is a little more to it. YOU THINK!!! And resale value at the end is a good thing to have. I didn't have any at the end with my caravan and Intrepid.
Guys!!! All anyone wants to talk about is "resale values", true the japanese have higher resale but their initial prices are higher too. Someone posted they saved $5000 on their Dodge, then complained about resale after years of use. He probably now feels great paying about/above MSRP for a Honda though, justifies it, and feel great with his extra $$$ at the end of 5 years. I'd rather have the extra cash NOW to invest, use etc...especially since we're talking Minivans. I think GM is on to something with employee pricing for all. It'll make purchasing str8 forward, like buying a toaster (not to offend but that's what Minivans are to me!!)
I like to post the whole review not pick and choose. Edmunds reviews in my opinion are a little short sighted. Here is what consumer reports has to say LOWS- Seat comfort, interior trim materials, some controls and coarse engines.
Hmmm you picked and choosed and added from CR above. From CR March 2005:
Highs - Interior Flexibility
Lows - Seat comfort, Interior Trim Mat'l, some controls.
You're picking "coarse engines" from main body I believe.
Overall the DCX is "recommended" by CR. For the money, it's hard to beat. My opinion, I love my questionable interior mat'l...perfect for my situation of hauling kids and dogs, camping gear etc... The Honda wouldn't last a month in my household. For example, the backs of my driver/pass seats are hard plastic with hooks built in for grocery bags! Each indentured servant, Opps, Kid, gets to carrying a bag into the house after returning from shopping Ohh and the hard plastic takes a beating better than the soft backs of Honda/Toyota. I'm still trying to figure out how to use the hooks to tie the kids down in place, while traveling :P
Not some buyers, MOST buyers. By a large margin
I don't think Odys outsell Dodge/Chryslers 25:1. Chrysler owners indifferent?
Or, Ody owners insecure?
Dodge/Chrysler owners are out driving their vans instead of posting on this board!!!
Have a nice day.
I believe this is due to "Stow N Go"!!! Funny thing...a buddy of mine works for GM. When he saw mine, he said "We've done market studies on what people want in seating flexibility, and people were very happy with our's, didn't care about folding 2nd row seat".
Just like driver side sliding doors, I bet everyone is scrambling to copy DCX's!!!!
It is amazing how much thought went into designing those sliding side doors. How the motor draws the doors up tight after closing them. How easy they are to open and close, even doing it by hand. How letting people and cars coming up on the van from behind, know someone is about to exit. How the doors lock automatically over 12 mph and how kids can not open the doors until the transmission is in nuetral. Plus the three different ways to open or close them by just pushing buttons. If the motor quits, you can open them by hand inside or out. And that is just the sliding doors.
Also, how the doors won't open when filling gas, so you don't damage your gas door!!
I never should have taken car out....RWD and summer tires.
Thats the problem we all think we can drive better than the computer. I've been out of control 4 times in my life(not that ofter I do about 25,000miles+ a year for 20years+, 3 times I was driving along and wtf. Next think I'm spinning, twice while raining. Once I hit some ice. Once the tires lose traction its a waiting game to regain control. Here's how ESC works.
How ESC works: ESC is an extension of antilock brake technology, which has speed sensors and independent braking for each wheel. For ESC, additional sensors continuously monitor how well a vehicle is responding to a driver's steering input. These sensors detect when a vehicle is about to stray from the driver's intended line of travel (that is, lose control), which usually occurs in high-speed maneuvers or on slippery roads. Then ESC brakes individual wheels automatically to keep the vehicle under control.
IIHS studies from like cars with and without ESC show 56% decrease in fatal single vehicle crashes. NOW THATS A USEFUL SAFETY FEATURE!!!!
Also, how the doors won't open when filling gas, so you don't damage your gas door!!
The Honda's door locks when the gas filler door is opened.
It is amazing how much thought went into designing those sliding side doors. How the motor draws the doors up tight after closing them.
The Honda's doors close, then pull tightly in line with the bodywork, sealing them.
How the doors lock automatically over 12 mph and how kids can not open the doors until the transmission is in nuetral.
The Honda doesen't bother with pesky automatic locks, it requires the tranny to be in park to open them.
Plus the three different ways to open or close them by just pushing buttons.
The honda opens via interior/exterior handle, remote key fob, or lockable buttons on the dashboard.
I am not trying to take sides, just pointing out that these "amazingly thoughtful designs" are common to the New Chryslers and 1999-Current Odyssey EXs... :shades:
A question for you, hayneldan. If this is the reason, then why are the number one and two selling cars in america, the Toyota Camry, and Honda Accord, taking top dollar resale values? Are they not also flooding the market with well over 400,000 units being sold in America anually (over 100,000 more than the Taurus [which has fleet sales to its benefit])Because they are practically unmatched in reliability, value, and overall excellence. This is also true in the case of Honda Odyssey and Toyota Sienna demanding much higher resale values than DCX, Ford, and GM vans. Supply may play a part, but a small one.
(I realize that this is a very old post, but reminds people of the real reason people pay more for cars. Quality, value, and excellence in their field. If don't have the money to put into the best car out there, the big three American Comp's offer big rebates, which is great for that set of individuals. Some people don't keep cars long enough to see a difference in reliability (people who lease, for example), but all will see the difference in when trade-in time comes.
[and before you say anything Dennis or marine2, I am referring to the percentage lost as a whole, not dollar to dollar. I dont expect a $19,000 van to be worth the same $15,000 after 4 years as the $27,000 van is.])
But I think we are also seeing a much better Chrysler/Dodge minivan, especially the last two years. There were few problems with last years vans, and if these boards and recalls are any judge, it looks like the 2005 are even better. I can't comment on anything earlier because I didn't follow them.
As for trade in value, I think that is also about to change. People love stow-n-go. Chrysler just sold a record number in May and I think they'll be hot on the used car market. Especially since no one else has it.
Socalawd, Esc does sound like a great safety feature. Let's hope all vans and cars have it soon.
I don't care if you're talking percentages or dollar to dollar. If you spend $5000 more for you Honda but it retains a higer percentage, you should look at whole big picture (speaking just purchasing here, not leasing). The value of money over time, say 5 years is significant. I paid $19k for mine, a Honda EX with dealer installed tow package approx $29k, add the 6% taxes on the added cost.
From what I'm seeing in KBB doesn't make the Honda a better buy.
Just for comparisons.....I went to KBB and checked trade in pricing for 2001 DCX ES and Oddy EX, using power sliding doors on both, 50,000 miles each and both in Excellent condition.....DCX is worth $10,600, Honda $13,350. Assume the Honda buyer paid just sticker for his (which was doubtful back then), and the DCX buyer negotiated $2500k discount, that $2500 would be worth over $3000 now. I would have expected Honda to do significantly better.
If I had the time, it'd be fun to check out total recalls on both since 1999. I did a few, based on someone else's post. 1999 was terrible for Honda (7 recalls I believe), 2001 was terrible for DCX (6 recalls I believe).
The perception of the Oddy is at odds with the reality. :shades:
Cars.com minivan residuals
What I was wondering is why the T&C is 11% higher than the DGC? Just the upscale quality of materials? Should the resale value of the T&C compared to the DGC influence our decisions between the two?
The 6% diff. between the T&C and the Ody is one thing... but a 17% diff between the Ody and the DGC would be something to note.
Timing chains and tensioners wear out too although they have no schedule for replacement.
What do you recommend for reference purposes then?
Try trading one in. I got 800.00 less than KBB tradein and if my memory is correct from the Dodge prices pais Marine2 got 700.00 less than KBB tradein on his 2002 dodge dakota. Now thats real world BABY!!!
Highs - Interior Flexibility
Lows - Seat comfort, Interior Trim Mat'l, some controls.
You're picking "coarse engines" from main body I believe
This information is on page 37 on the APR 05 issue to the TEE!!!
I posted this in my post 3517 please read it(well before the post I am replying too)!!!!! I know you like things being repeated over and over again but I only want to write it once. Dennis you are alway complaining about all these little nit picky things glove boxes, weatherstripping, and recalls(in which not one's hade a accident or injury)OH MY!!
But if I talk about 0-60, VSC, braking, resale value, and reliability you freak out. Relax you made the choice you wanted. You say DGC is the best value, It might be for you but intellichioce say HONDA ODYSSEY!! And I BELIEVE!!!!
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The instruments are straightforward: big, round analog gauges with white faces. They light up green at night. The dash is canted slightly forward for better visibility. Indicators for the turn signals and high beams are cleverly located in a thin hooded display above the instrument panel where they are easy to see.
Gee, are these two talking about the same minivan?
Now lets go to his "Lows - Seat comfort, Interior Trim Mat'l.
None of the Stow `n Go features would be all that great if the ergonomic design and seat comfort were sub-par. They are first-rate. Super High Density (SHD) foam, originally developed by NASA for astronaut seat comfort, is used for the seats, and it works just as well in a minivan as it does in space. Both first- and second-row seats recline up to 60 degrees for naps, and the second-row seats are adjustable fore-and-aft for legroom.
We must be talking about two different vans again.
"You're picking "coarse engines" from main body I believe"
PERFORMANCE: With 215 horsepower at 5000 rpm and 245 lb-ft of torque at 4000 rpm, the Grand Caravan SXT's 3.8-liter V6 has plenty of power to move the minivan's mass, and it returns reasonable fuel economy as a bonus. An EPA rating of 18 city, 25 highway, with around 20 mpg average may not be in hybrid territory, but is considerably better than any SUV with a similar passenger capacity. Although minivans are not usually thought of as tow vehicles, the SXT can tow up to 2,000 lbs in standard trim, or up to 3,800 lbs with the tow package.
I remember years ago we would put on new mufflers to try and get that sound. Only trouble, you only hear it when you floor it.
It is funny that people like different things and to one its great and to someone else it junk.
I have no use for Stow and Go. Never had the seats out of my Caravan in 4+ years.But I do think they're a nice feature. Some say they are comfortable but I wouldn't be sitting back there anyway.
I think after looking at more information the Dodge/chrysler is trying to get there quality and reliablity(cars get better all the time) up and making strides. I had a 2001 with multiple problems. The 2 reviews I did find on the 2005 touchup said the fit and finish is improved.
For me plain and simple the Honda with VSC(thats why I didn't even look at dodge), standard side airbags, easy to understand packages and size configuration was right on. If you are looking at this forum drive them both if the features are what you need. The dodge will be a good value if you keep it for 10 years(and the standard warranty is longer)Unlike what you hear the Honda is not selling for over MSRP(Some dealers will try and make you think you have to pay that) I got mine for 3000.00+ under invoice.
I'm getting ready for a trip to sedona. I'll give you all the Pros and Cons of 7 hours with 3 kids in the Odyssey.
Wow I should read what I write sometimes I mean MSRP. That's 3000.00+ less than MSRP. Wow I'm happy I caught that before someone else did.LOL
I just went up to Prescot last week in my new Dodge. First time I had to try that big mountain on Rte 17. That old 3.8 engine and four speed tranny flew up that thing. My 2001 Dodge Dakota didn't do that well. It kept down shifting.
You are correct, I forgot the automotive issue, was just looking at March Minivan comparison. You may want to be more specific so you don't have to repeat yourself in the future i.e...source, date etc..
it's funny how CRs adds to the previous comments just a month old. Also...how in the posting the GM offerings are rated as "new" even though that's the furthest from the truth, and the Hondas are rated above? Which is "more" new?? definitely the Honda.
But if I talk about 0-60, VSC, braking, resale value, and reliability you freak out. Relax you made the choice you wanted. You say DGC is the best value, It might be for you but intellichioce say HONDA ODYSSEY!! And I BELIEVE!!!!
If we were talking sport cars....0-60, 60-0 would be major attributes worthy of nitpicking over 1.5 seconds or 4 feet. A majority of Minivan buyers could care less, and are more concerned with packaging, flexibility, features the improve the usefulness of their Minivan......Here DCX wins hands down.
It's easy to claim "resale value" and "reliability" and not back it up with anything substantial. It's easy to ignore recalls or dismiss em but they're affecting someone out there - whether or not anyone's been hurt. I now see there's a serious problem with Honda's AC canisters being easily damaged by stones, some Oddy owners are adding a new "grill" (wire mesh) to their vehicles. Will this become a styling fad for Hondas??? $800 bill - Ouch.
Regardless of what some "expert" says, people with their own cash are easily picking DCX vans over Honda. BTW - I'm friends with some of these "experts" from the auto mags here in Detroit. They're no better than most of us here, except they have a fun job
I took mine on trip from MI to WV camping over memorial day. Was fullly loaded - wife, 2 kids, 2 dogs, bikes, roof carrier and towing a 3500 lbs Coleman trailer.....the 3.8 didn't slow down a bit going up some VERY steep hills with lots of hairpin curves and no guard rails ohh and washed out roads too I kept her in 3rd gear. 17 mpg going there, 25 mpg coming back (without RV which I left at campsite since we're returning on July 4th week)
Apparently the recalls and problems are catching up with Honda, dealers are realizing it.
Bringing it to a DC dealer or selling it yourself will yield much better results than bringing to a Honda dealer...
Seems like the same kind of message 2005 owners are giving out here. Nothing to write about. the 2005's work just like they should.
2005 SXT Post
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Had the 2005 GC SXT with Stow-n- Go for eight months now
Nothing to post about- I'm bored...
14K so far, Had the oil changed as needed, rotated the tires, the headlights are actually useful (had a '96). Only wish that I sprung for the infinity stereo.
Why would you have too? What would be the reason to remove it with Stow-n-Go?