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Corvettes and all things about them

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  • starrow68starrow68 Posts: 1,142
    I'm guessing it isn't from outside. Sounds more like the heater unit area and either a hose connection leak or a seam in part of the unit. The heater hoses come through the fire wall in that area if I'm not off base. I know you said water and not antifreeze but the other possibility is condensation but hard to get much volume that way, I'd think. I've read about several earlier C5's with leaks in the passenger foot well area.
    Randy
  • starrow68starrow68 Posts: 1,142
    http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/060124/detu012.html?.v=37

    Interesting to see how they set it up to get some payback.
  • starrow68starrow68 Posts: 1,142
    http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06032/648034.stm

    About half way through the article they note that the
    Fed's are expected to set standards for how stablity
    control works. I wonder if that will impact cars that
    currently have a performance version that allows some
    slide before intervening?
  • I really like the 1984-1995 model Corvettes and there doesn't seem to be a lot of difference in prices for cars that old. I have a 2000 Mustang V6 that I put in shows and am contemplating selling it and getting a Corvette for the same purpose. Is there a flex problem on convertibles or should I get the removable hardtop? I'd like to be a be able to drive the car around town in relative comfort (I'd get an automatic and the base engine) so I don't need the performance version - a base model would probably ride better. I'm open to suggestion. What year would ride the best and be the most reliable. You guys are the experts.
  • starrow68starrow68 Posts: 1,142
    Depends ... is mostly true. The C4, two basic body styles from 84 to 96 was the first true handling Corvette according to many. Before that they had power but required lots of work to get them to handle. Several good reviews are available and there is a Black Book that I've read about but never seen, then the current issue of Corvette magazine at news stands has a year by year run down on the C4 changes by year. Here is some of what I remember: The '84 was rough riding and got better in '85 and beyond, the early style, '84 to '89, I think is cleaned up in front in the later style '90 to '96, the engines always had tons of torque but the HP went up in the LT1 engine around '90 and the '96 engines are unique, the LT4. So much for facts, I drove a '95 with only 18k miles for a year, in 2004, and put 10k miles on it to keep miles off my 2002 Coupe. They are much harder to get in an out of than normal cars or even a C5 and although a leading edge boomer, I'm 6'3" and just under 200#s so not carrying a lot of excess. I'd be sure to test as many as you can find either on lots or from individual sellers. I found that most with over 50/60k miles were pretty well 'used' inside while the 18k mile car that a friend found was a garage queen and was almost new, premium was minor. They ride pretty hard even in the '95 and won't impress most that are not looking for a performance car, which they are, although not in terms of current offerings.
    There are lots of Corvette clubs and most folks are into showing the cars while some autocross and fewer go to race tracks for road course excitement. Drags in an auto can be fun since bracket racing is common. For me the search was as fun as finding a gem, lots of test rides even in a few C5s made it a time filler when I had some extra time. Enjoy the process!
    Randy
  • Guys, you want to hear about quality, read this! I purchased a brand new yellow 2006 Z06 on the last of October, after waiting patiently for a few months. Note that I owned a '01 Z06 which I kept for 2 years and recently returned a '03 911 Turbo off of a lease and purchased the new Z06, thus to amazement of some of my friends went back to a Corvette after having a Porsche.

    About 2 months ago after not using the Z06 for about 10 days, my Z06 woudln't start. I called roadside & received a boost. A similar situation happened 2 weeks ago, but this time after 4 or 5 days of not being used... Obviously a problem, so I made an appointment with my local dealer to check into the problem. This was this past Friday 1/27/06. Otherwise the car seemed to operate normally.

    The dealership checked the battery and told me it was fine, but when they were about to return the car to have me go on my way, the car didn't start! They obviously kept the car and later in the afternoon informed me that it was a defective starter... It happens, right, no big deal. They would overnight the part and fix it on Monday 1/30/06... No problem...

    Monday comes and I have a very unpleasant conversation with the dealership (who by the way are very professional) and I'm informed that when they car was lifted to install the starter... they discover a CRACKED lower ENGINE BLOCK!!!! They immediately tell me that they will swap in a new engine! The car is 3 months old with 1,300 miles on it, so you see the problem! I'm demaning a new car, NOT a repair!

    Mind you, I have a number of friends who own dealerships and know numerous mechanics! I speak with all of them that same day on Monday. ALL state the same. The only way this could have happened is that the engine was overtorqued on installation, thus cracking the engine block! This car was delivered to me defective and quality control (what an oxymoron) at Chevrolet didn't catch the problem! Fine, things happen... but Chevy, you made the mistake, rectify it and give me a new car!!!

    I call Chevrolet customer support, and get a very polite, non-comittal run-around. When I ask the lady who is a manager to let me speak with someone above her, she states that she will not as per her "guidelines." Coincidentally, that dealership where my car was being fixed had a visit from a Chevy field rep. and this issue was immediately brought to his attention. He obviously okays the engine swap under warranty, but when informed that the customer wants the car replaced, refuses it.

    I immediately file a Better Business Beureau complaint, and receive a phone call from a GM's customer relations manager on Tuesday morning, who is apparently above the customer support manager with whom I spoke earlier... He is told all the facts and promises to get back to me on Tuesday 2/07/06. Today I'm told that they would not volunatarily replace the car.

    I want the car replaced & my issues with the repairs are the following:
    a.) Obviously the Z06 is a very high performance automobile, the dealer admits to me they have never did this job on this car, I'm afraid the reliability & performance of my car will be affected in either the short term or the long term. Nothing against the dealership, but they have specialists at the factory hand building & installing these engines, and now this job will not be done in the factory? P.S., I would feel the same had they told me that car would go back to the factory for the repair job as my confidence & security in this car is totally gone.
    b.) A simple carfax will reveal that this car has a new engine, thus substantially affecting the value of the automobile. Again, Chevy delivered a defective car, they need to do right by their customer and replace it.
    c.) We all know that owning a Corvette is an emotional decision, and surely the way I feel about this car has been substantially affected in a negative way. I still want to have a Z06, but this car is obviously not the one I will keep.

    Finally, I feel betrayed by Chevy's immediate reaction to my situation. The company (GM)is having a lot of problems as we all know. I feel that we, as Corvette owners, are the backbone customers and need to be heard and I think Chevy/GM is very dangerously undermining the core customer base with these type of actions. I see myself and others like myself as GM's #1 customers. Not only do I own their HALO car which states to the world, take a look and notice, the Z06 is what GM is all about, but I'm also a repeat customer having previously owned another Z06! I still have hope that Chevy/GM will do the right thing and replace the car without any further action by me... I'm still waiting and believe its going to be a long wait... But I'm prepared to take all steps necessary, including legal ones... P.S. I am an attorney.

    All contributions & opinions would be highly appreciated. Anyone else ever have similar issues? Any ideas in dealing with this situation? Needless to say, I'm extremely distressed by this situation!

    P.S. I have already posted same in the Z06 Corvette & C6 Corvette forums and have received a number of constructive responses from some of you... Thanks again...

    For a follow up on how manufacturers with integrity handle much more minor problems please see a response to my posting in the Corvette Z06 forum.

    Thanks in advance for comments, suggestions and ideas...
    Alena
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,491
    Now this sounds like a real bummer. The good/bad news is it happened early on. Also since you are an attorney, you don't have to necessarily pay for some of the legal fees to get you going down the right path. :( :)

    I frankly would want a new car also. However I am wondering out loud what is the car fax consequence/s of just swapping out the bad engine for the new engine under warranty.
  • sensaisensai Posts: 129
    Sorry about your problem, but a bad engine means you replace the engine, not the whole car. When BMW M3s had crankshaft failures, they replaced the engine only. When Toyota's engines sludged and failed, they replaced the engine only. I don't think you have any precedence here to demand the whole car be replaced because of the bad engine.
  • gbjerkegbjerke Posts: 158
    I understand your "pain" as such but the above poster makes some good points.
    Let them replace the engine and I suspect they will even extend your warrenty....Like BMW did with their crank problems.
    Since you are a lawyer, you could litigate the matter but what is GM going to present you with? Yup, their warrenty and frankly they are living up to that aspect as they will replace the engine.
    It is certainly annoying but I think your alternative in litigating the matter may prove fruitless.
    On a lighter side, I'll take your car! I have had an '01 yellow;traded for an '03 yellow and will be hunting down an '06, either yellow or blue and have merely been waiting for pricing to settle. Maybe your dealer would want to swap you out of your car into another one, I'll take yours for the right price and all will be happy.
    Just a thought.
  • gbjerke, thanks for your response,

    GM has not offered to extend my warranty. Legally speaking, I will file an action against GM, but that is not the point. Porsche & BMW have in similar situations (or with cars with less serious problems) replaced the car (examples provided by other board members) thus backing their product and their customer. While GM & Chevrolet is basically flipping me the bird.

    I do not intent do keep this car under any circumstances and already have a deposit on another Z06. Funny isn't it? Depending on how things work out with GM, this car will be either returned to GM for a new one, bought back by GM, or will be sold by me. If you're interested in purchasing it, just let me know. This whole scenario has absolutely ruined my experience of owning this particular car, but the reason for that is not the actual problems with my Z06, those can happen on any car, but the way Chevrolet & GM are handling this situation.

    "American Revolution" is the new Chevrolet slogan, but in the end these are just words. Although I think Chevy's products are overall greatly improved, their integrity as a company are at the bottom of the barrel, and this is where their focus needs to be. They will never compete with the profitable companies until their policy is changed.

    Porsche & BMW are the 2 most profitable car manufacturers and its funny that in the examples given the customers' cars were replaced and the reputation of the companies improve. But GM, a company in dire financial straights does not replace a car which left the factory substantially defective, thus further undermining the company's reputation. And this is supposed to be their HALO car! What a joke...

    Alena
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 11,563
    Let me get this straight, you bought a car that had a defect in the engine. GM is going to replace it with a new engine (which will not affect the value of the car, nor the handling) at no cost to you. Now thats not enough? you want a whole new car? I have two words for you...

    GROW UP!!!

    Lets be honest here, if this problem would have been discovered between the car coming off the assembly line and being delivered to you all they would have done is changed the engine and you would have had a vette with a new replacement engine and you would be none the wiser.

    There are three types of people in this world. Those who are good at math and those who are not.

  • bigmike5bigmike5 Posts: 960
    I have a couple of thoughts here. First the starting problem, their diagnosis aside, sound more like an iginition relay or starter switch. I've had those go before, and long before a starter itself. If you get the car back and it fails to start again, have those checked. On the warranty issue, I think if GM wants to play hardball, you end up with a new engine rather than a new car. But, some years ago when I was at my Olds dealer and puttering around the show room, I saw a guy outside getting ready to take delivery on a new Toronado. I was speaking to the owner and he told me the guy had a new Toronado and on a business trip it developed a tranny problem that could not readily be fixed. The dealer said he got a call from GM central and was told to give him any Toronado he had on his lot as a replacement. That is what he did. I whistled at that info and he said: "Well, the Toronado is our top of the line and they want to take care of their best customers." I wonder if things have changed. After all, the Z06 is a heck of a lot more expensive than the Toronado was. And by the way, I bought a 87 Toronado and it was the best, most trouble free GM product I ever bought. Kept it 9 years and then gave it to my son who kept it 2 more. Still wish I had kept it, it would almost be a collector item now. :shades:
  • :lemon: I had 5 and I prevailed on every one of them.
  • Guys, thanks for your responses!

    Fivelemons, FIVE LEMONS? That's rediculous!

    As an update... it looks like the dealership will have my car for about a month, today being the 18th day... Some parts still have not come in! No surprises here!

    Alena
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,491
    For sure no surprise!! I do not think that MONSTER 505 hp engine has even hit the aftermarket. In fact I think the emphasis will be to provide the Z06 assembly line with engines so it does not fall behind in production. Best of luck to you!!
  • Claire@EdmundsClaire@Edmunds Chicago areaPosts: 968
    This same discussion is duplicated (triplicated?) in 3 different topics and at this point, it's off-topic here.

    Those who'd like to continue discussing GM's policies/practices, customer service, and warranty issues will find plenty of takers in the News & Views and Smart Shopper Forums.

    imageDrive on over and see me!

    Claire

    HOST

  • I found a 2005 coupe 6 speed LT1 package with a single removable top. The dealer is asking $42500.00 for the car with 4250k miles on it. Edmunds says $36000 trade in and 41500 dealer, what do you guys think?
  • tsytsy Posts: 1,551
    I went by my dealership a 2 weeks ago and they had $5000 off stickers on their '05 Vettes. They had a lot full of them, so my guess is you could do quite a bit better.

    Good luck

    tom
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