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Do you mean the "What is this discussion about?" at the top of the section?
I count 11 items.
Maybe you could choose Lexus IS as opposed to the IS250 and IS350 separately.
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I did update Infiniti to be G37 rather than G35.
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Here is an '08 G35S with 6 speed stick, RWD, Nav, Heated Seats. Less than 28,000 miles and they are asking $26K. I'll bet they gave the person a fantastic deal on their new Acura and gave $18K on the trade stating "well, a RWD car with a stick is a hard sell around here in central Jersey." Then they turned around and wrote "Hard to find" in the ad. Probably could walk out of that dealership paying maybe $20,500 - $21,000 + TTL.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
Trade-in is right near $21k, however, so you'd be looking at more like $23k-$24k to buy it.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
this little gem for stickguy
Although difference betwee price and fair deal is about $3k right now.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
About the only thing it has going for it is the stick... stickguy likes those light interiors, though....
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'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
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"Chris, give me your keys. I'll meet you back at your place later. Call me if you need a lift."
With the flick of his wrist, he tossed me the keys to his 1995 E36 BMW 325is. Red/Black leather. 5 speed manual transmission. HK, Sunroof, & most importantly Sport Package + additional factory lowering.
Now up until this point, I was a novice at driving stick and had never had any real seat time in a BMW. I thought they were for "show offs." My entire point of view changed by the time I took off from the 1st traffic light. I had never driven a car that I just felt so perfect in. I drove the car around the streets of Buffalo for the next 2 1/2 hours. By the end of the night, I was steering around right turns with the throttle & rotating around corners perfectly. I've wanted a BMW ever since.
Fast forward to December 2, 2010. The numbers don't mean a whole helluva lot. BMW gets good money for their cars and they are worth every penny.
I've got my Mom's '08 E90 BMW 328xiA (almost 61,000 miles) until Saturday. Even saddled with all wheel drive & automatic transmission, it is still a true driver's car. You all know how much I love my '01 Prelude Type SH (almost 132,000 miles). My Mom's BMW is one of the few cars I've driven that almost make my Prelude feel "loose."
The drive from my parents house in Rockland County, NY to my house in Stamford, CT changed my mind and reinvigorated my passion for BMWs. I'd take a 328i with its 230 horsepower, no NAV, leatherette, sports package, & 6 speed stick. It is just an amazing car to drive. I would even consider a CPO or private party used (as long as the person has service records & the car passes a PPI) and I've only owned new cars my entire driving life since I got my license.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
That's exactly what I'd want, too. Sport and stick. Nothing else needed. Well.... OK, I'd want the USB port, too.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
For me, when I was in the Army, I was passing through Dallas to spend a few days with my uncle (yes, the one with a thing for Acuras). Back in the 80's and 90's, he was strictly a BMW guy (320i, 325e, then 325i).
We went on a liquor run to OK and he let me drive his then new E30. Up until that point, all I had owned/driven was my dad's Accord, and my Alfa Romeo Spider and CRX Si.
I had a similar epiphany - how could such a simple car (my uncle is minimalist - his E30 had NO options) be so much better than anything I had ever driven. Of course, I didn't have the scratch to buy a BMW so I owned many more imitators before I finally got the real thing.
They really are that good. Sublime.
Funny, for me the situation was in 1998. I was looking for a premium smaller sedan. I drove a brand new (was that the E36?) 1999 BMW 323, but the dealer only had an automatic. It seemed decent but I wasn't wowed. Then I drove a 1998 Audi A4, 6 cyl, manual. There was no comparison. The Audi had a much nicer interior, the clutch and stick were like butter, and the steering and suspension were taut and precise. I bought it.
Have driven the new S60 here in UK, (admittedly only the D3 and D5 Geartronics), at a Volvo track day I can say that it is at least a match for any 3-series up to/incl the 330D. One of the pro-drivers rated them equal in the dry but gave the S60 the edge in the wet. New S60 really is a vastly different car to the outgoing model and made my '06 S60 D5 Geartronic seem positively wooden by comparison. Mag reviews are fine for rough comparison...............you need to drive 'em to really find out. Before I drove the S60 I was thinking; "Hmm so it's a re-skin". After 4 hours of all kinds of silliness I was smitten. It's a new car from the wheels up.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
Here in the US, at least, the T6 only comes with an automatic. The S60R had the same peak engine outputs, was a lighter car, and was available with a stick. Gotta tip yer hat to that as being more sporty, if not even the sportiest.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-2021 Sahara 4xe-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
I know sunroofs add weight, but I like 'em.
Funny thing about paying for paint. My Mom's lease is up on her 328xi at the end of this month. She ordered a Porsche Cayenne V6. Called me up after she visited the dealer & gushed about the truck. After she told me what options she specd out, I asked her what color. She told me White. This took me by surprise as she's never come close to wanting a white car. Now the white happens to be a fantastic color for the Cayenne. I said: White? She told me she refuses to pay $800 for a specific color & she really loves the white.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
BMWs are special cars no doubt.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
Four years later I was evaluating an early E32 750i outside Rochester New York. I took it up to 125 mph and asked my wife how fast she thought we were going. She guessed 80 mph...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-2021 Sahara 4xe-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
The speed thing, though... (warning, this story is boring, also).. Four of us were driving up the road about an hour to eat dinner, one evening... In my '84 911.... (hey, I'm not sitting in the back, what do I care?).. The other guy is sitting upfront with me, we have a conversation going, and the women are in the back with their own conversation.. From the back, I hear... "Geez... let's open this thing up and see what it will do" (not my wife, obviously)..
"Well... uh.. we are already doing 105... how fast do you want to go?"
It's amazing how smooth and controlled German cars can be at speed... she had no idea we weren't going 55 mph.
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Having the 300/300 N55 motor would be complete overkill for me.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
bmw- a no show
ford- showcasing its new focus and explorer
Chevy- 4-5 Camaros, volt but could not sit or touch it--same with nissan leaf
acura- showcasing the new Tsx wagon, did notice a bunch of people looking/sitting in the Tl
Caddy- CTS-V wagon maybe the meanest car on the market
Dodge- people around the challengers, nothing else.. Jeep draw was the Wrangler
Audi- A4/S4 big crowd--
Infiniti- really quiet, couple of people looking at the monster suv
Volvo- S60 big draw, i sat in it was not impressed by the dash, lots of open space
LExus- IS350 awd was highlighted - 46k
Buick- 10 old people looking at the fleet-- kind of funny actually- but they did highlight the new Regal GS-- good looking car-- also LaCrosse eAssist that gets 37mpg on the highway
I've been to nyc auto show - not the same in boston
Hello, Andrea from Lexus (formerly Infiniti)...
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
Then at lunch I saw a beautiful black Lincoln MKS. I'm not certain what trim level they have but it was really gorgeous.
Maybe it was because they were freshly polished black cars...or maybe a shift in the industry.
I recently read the review of the Kia Optima and thought "what a compelling car", "I could commute in that", even though intellectually my synapses are still firing "yuk" when I think of Kia.
just wondering if anyone out there has looked at the Nissan Maxima? I have expanded my serach from Lexus and Infiniti and would appreciate any comments.
But I do understand your wanting to look at other options. Lexus seemed overpriced and stodgy to me - and everyone has one, it seems. BMW makes a nice car, as does Mercedes, but cost to own is high(love the new E class, though.. wish I could afford to own one). Audi's larger vehicles are gorgeous inside but also suffer from maintainance woes. The list quickly dwindles.
I'd look at the Acura TL or possibly the CTS (you didn't specify sporty or luxury preference) Both can be had for about 32K through various sites like Truecar. It turns out they all are using the same back end call centers - I got a quote from Truecar and a couple of other sites recently and got the same receptionist on the phone (though different agents). So it works well enough to get an idea at least of the price locally.
If you don't have a family or a big family and want something with a luxury bad, better materials, and a sport firm ride/handling then the G37 is the one that makes the most sense.
If your like me and want something that is more a roomier family sedan but with a sport look/flair to it then the Maxima fits the bill better. The maxima is much more comfortable inside and if you get the premium package you get the heated steering wheel, power rear sunshade, dual moonroof, cooled front seats, auto dimming side mirrors, sport bucket seats, and a couple of other goodies that you can even get on the G37.
To me, the Maxima is the best handling FWD sedan I have ever driven to date. Its got a great turning circle for its size, just the right ride quality balance, and if driven properly, yields decent mpg with the CVT. Only thing is, if you've never had a CVT before, it's going to take you about 2-3 months to get used to it. It was odd at first, but after 1.5 years, it seems like normal to me and I have had zero problems with it in almost 17 miles.
This gen max is a world's different from the last one and to me has a much more stand out body style then the G37 does but that vehicle itself is due for a redesign in 2012. I suggest you test drive both vehicles, like I did, and see which one suits your needs better. They are two different vehicles, despite what anyone else on here leads you to believe.
Having said that, I agree with pletko on a lot of points. The current-gen Maxima is a shell of a car that it used to be. The "four-door Sports Car" moniker than Nissan used for it is long since gone, and it's been replaced by a sedan that doesn't fit into any distinct category anymore. It's essentially NOT an entry-level lux sedan (as much as Nissan would like it to be) because the materials and fit-and-finish pales in comparison to G (which is essentially the same price). It's too expensive to be a viable midsize sedan, and why spend a few grand more for a nameplate when the Altima can be optioned similarly for a lower price?
If you're looking for some room, the Caddy CTS is a good alternative, as well as the aforementioned Genesis. Also check out the Acura TL.
If you think the FWD and CVT has turned it into a Avalon and Lucerne clone then you really know nothing about the car. The Maxima rides and handles 10x better than both those vehicles and isn't even close in any driving dynamics. Plus, despite having the CVT, I've been able to keep up with plenty of regular automatics and manuals with the car so its performance capabilities aren't void or completely handicapped b/c of it. That is just an excuse people use to not get the car.
I actually agree with you that the Maxima is not a true 4DSC in its current set-up and that is not the fault of the car itself but Nissan's stupid marketing schemes which they still don't get but that is another subject. I don't think anybody but you placed it in the entry-level lux sedan segment b/c I sure as didn't say it was. It is classified typically as an upscale or premium sedan.
Your comments tell me that you don't have a clue when it comes to either of these vehicles b/c the Maxima is not the same price as a G37. As I stated earlier, no one is paying near sticker for a fully loaded Maxima. Typically you can get one for $33-35k when its all said and done, while a G37 does not have as big of a reduction. I have seen most people getting them for $37-40k depending on how its loaded up. That's still a difference and price and there are many luxury sedan features your getting in the cheaper Maxima that you can't even get in the G sedan even loaded all the way up.
Is the fit and finish the same as the G, of course not, but it doesn't pale in comparison as you claim it to be. Its the best interior Nissan has had on the Maxima ever and that says a lot considering the interior's they had pre 2007.
I was worried that there wouldn't be a market for the new Max but there is and the sales success of it prove it. There are big differences between the Altima and Maxima now that warrants the higher price of the Max and its more refined in every way, I should know, I cross-shopped that as well with the Maxima. As I said, the Maxima has found a market niche as a sporty family sedan that can get great mpg for the power.
Now if Infiniti ever decided to bring back a FWD sedan or coupe then your argument might have more value.
Long story short, the Maxima is no longer qualified to compete in this segment, a segment of which it was a firm stake holder early in its earlier iterations.
Problem with you logic is, the cars the Maxima competes with, Avalon, Azera Impala, Taurus, etc are not as sporty as the Maxima is and have sales not even close to it, except for the Impala which is just rent a car fodder. Its the sportiness for the competition in the market place it has right NOW.
Is it has sporty as it used to be, no, but there is more than just a smidgen of sportiness left. The body style screams sport, the exhaust note screams sport, the acceleration is incredible, ride quality is definitely not Lexus cushy and gear toward the feedback side, and for FWD, it handles very responsively compared to the other FWD flagship sedans it competes with.
I love how everyone says the maxima has no market and can't compete yet sales prove you completely wrong, especially if you compared it to the big/bloaty boat the previous generation was and sales failure it was. This generation at least started going back in the right direction after where it had been from 2004-2008. It blends family sedan comfort with some sporty driving characteristics. Something that both the Altima and G37 do not both due at the same time. The G37 is complete sports car while the Altima is a boring comfortable family sedan. The Maxima bridges some of the characteristics of each of those cars nicely.
Exhaust note? Geez, I've heard late model Cadillac land yachts that sound better. Even still, since when was exhaust note a metric for measuring sportiness? Wait-wait, I know; it's a measure among the crowd that likes to put far can mufflers on their tiny little econo cars. :P
Acceleration? Here again, not exactly an attribute that is the exclusive domain of sporty cars. I mean really, a Dodge Ram pick-up with a Hemi in it will handily show its taillights to a Maxima.
Long story short, the Maxima has been bloated up to be a nice grand touring car, nicer than Impalas and the like, but not a very good competitor to the cars that make up this class. I know you disagree, but even with those sixty-thousand souls in your back pocket, you're still not going to sell your argument.
If you go back & read Shipo's post, you'll note that nowhere in it did he say that the Maxima isn't a strong seller - only that it's no longer considered a sport sedan as it once was.
Problem with you[sic] logic is, the cars the Maxima competes with, Avalon, Azera Impala, Taurus, etc are not as sporty as the Maxima is and have sales not even close to it, except for the Impala which is just rent a car fodder.
I don't see a problem with Shipo's logic here. If the Maxima's chief competition comes from cars that aren't perceived as sporty, then it would logically follow from that fact that the Maxima itself is not perceived as sporty.
I love how everyone says the maxima has no market and can't compete yet sales prove you completely wrong
Once again, Shipo's argument doesn't rest on sales numbers.
Do you hear an loud exhaust note on a Camry? and Accord? a Altima? a Avalon? no you don't. That's because there isn't anything sporty about them. Only vehicles that have sporty pretensions and characteristics would do that. Why would a manufacturer waste the time to design and do that if it wasn't suppose to sound aggressive? B/c they want it to have sporty characteristics.
Acceleration, looks, handling, ride, etc are not attributes that make a sporty car? Your definition of what makes a sporty vehicle is puzzling to say the least.
A Dodge Ram pick up with a Hemi in it will handily show it's taillights to a Maxima; so what? I would expect it to. Now your going off on crazy vehicle and engines comparisons. Talk about going all over the place.
Actually, the Maxima has been decreased in size compared to its previous generation so it hasn't been bloated up. I'm puzzled as to what you think are the cars that make up this class? Since the Maxima is a premium mainstream flagship sedan then that is what class it is apart of. That means the car's in its class is the Impala, Taurus, Azera, and Avalon. It outsells and performs all those vehicles.
Bottom line is, you don't even know what class of car the Maxima is in, despite the fact it is in the mainstream flagship sedan class, sells better than its competition, and is more aggressive and unique then those other vehicles as well. It's class has changed compared to 10 and 15 years ago and so has the rest of the car market. Infiniti didn't even have anything sporty 10-15 years ago so even with in Nissan itself there are different vehicles that they have to be careful they don't compete against. Your logic and others makes no sense that a car that sells as well as the Maxima does has no market and is not a good competitor for its class. Even with your put downs and contradictions, your still not going to sell your argument.
Actually his argument can rest on sales numbers him and others said that its not class competitive and there is no need or market for it. Sales numbers prove that there is a market for it or people wouldn't buy it in the numbers that they are.
Second, saying that b/c the Maxima's chief competition come from cars that are not sporty thus making the Maxima itself not perceived as sporty is just a gross generalization and to me isn't logical b/c in each car class their is always one or two vehicles that are different or an exception in certain characteristics then others. That's what makes test driving so important since the Maxima is very different with its driving dynamics then the others in the mainstream flagship class. That is the class the Maxima is in now, and it competes extremely well. I don't care what class it was in 10 or 15 years ago. Have to accept that is has changed to what it is today.
Take the entry-level lux class for instance. An ES350, C-Class, IS, A4 and Lacrosse are more on the dull, less sporty side of vehicles but the 3-Series and G37 are the polar opposite of that. That would make a huge assumption about those sport sedan vehicles that b/c its in a class with a majority of less sporty (or luxury focus vehicles) they are not sport sedans as well. That of course would be a wrong assumption just like it is about a Maxima not having sporty driving characteristics.
Do you own a Maxima? If so, do you like it? If you do, why does it matter to you what Shipo, I or anyone else thinks of it?
It's clear from your last couple of posts that you're getting a bit excited. (You're making some spelling & grammar goofs that you probably wouldn't make otherwise.) Calm down. We're talking about cars here - not the things that are really worth arguing about: books, music & single-malt scotch.
Just relax & have some fun.
Since I have the new Max and I test drove and weighed it heavily against the G37, I thought I could provide some valuable insight into the differences between the two vehicles since I made a similar decision and what the pros and cons of each vehicle was. That is what I tried to do.
Instead, I got criticized by several people for my comments and comparisons and got multiple put downs on my choice of vehicle and was told that it was not class competitive and there is no market for it :confuse: Very puzzling statements considering its sales numbers and how the market/class segment it now occupies has changed very much from what it was 10-15 years ago.
Well, I did reread the posts that you're referring to & I can't find any that criticize you personally for driving a Maxima. Shipo merely pointed out that the latest generation Max isn't available with a stick & that in his eyes it's not as sporty as the earlier versions. All he was doing was expressing his opinion, which he has a right to do, & you went after him with a shotgun. You're too thin-skinned.
I'm going to pull rank on you - you've been a member only since '09, but I've been here since '98 - & suggest that you calm down & have a little fun. We're here to entertain ourselves - nothing more. If someone actually learns something along the way, that's frosting on the cake, but that's not what attracts us in the 1st place. In my case, I can't go outside - not before my wife finishes shoveling the snow that fell last night - there's nothing good on TV & it's too early to start drinking. (This all sounds familiar. Didn't I point this out to you once before?)
No matter what you drive, someone, somewhere will have an opinion about it that you won't like. Shrug it off.