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Secondly, none of these cars have been in service long enough for any conclusions to be drawn about much of anything short of the obvious differences in performance and fuel consumption.
And finally, the cost of the batteries will continue to drop - whatever dollar figure you would be quoted today, it promises to be much lower by the time anyone has to replace any batteries out of the 8 year warranty period. The technology marches on relentlessly...
So far, in 30 miles worth of driving, I am impressed. My most serious concern (if you want to call it that) is the lack of room for CD's. I love having the CD player, but where am I gonna keep the CD's? In the glove box?
The electric blue dash lights are way cool.
A "sales tactic"...I doubt it!
Thanks.
*If* you find a dealer who will meet your price, they charge you $50 for the service. If not, they charge nothing. We were able to get a 5-speed (they do exist in the Chicago area!)for $18,700 by starting with our local area and then expanding our search into surrounding counties until they found a dealer who would meet that price. Having the price set in advance made dealing with the dealer easy and pleasant.
By the way, I re-visited the hybrid page on Edmunds.com the other day and noticed they've finally posted an invoice price...but the price they posted is $15,864 (5-speed), when all other sources say $17,864! Is it possible Honda has dropped the invoice price (sure wouldn't feel good about the deal I made in that case!), or is this just a mistake??
Owners' manuals seem to lean on the side of giving the maximum mileage that a halfway conscientious owner could go between oil changes. I discussed this a couple years back with a couple of outstanding mechanics with extensive Honda experience, and they strongly believe that 5,000 miles should be the maximum between changes...and 3,000 has definite benefits in terms of longevity.
Of course, this was pre-hybrid, but I don't see why this would be any different for this car. Our dealer recommended an initial oil change at 1000 miles (to remove any debris that might come from the new engine) followed by a change at least every 5000.
Related issue: has anyone found the 0W20 oil at a Jiffy Lube or whatever, or are we all going to be forking over $30 for dealer oil changes on the hybrid?
1. Procure the oil.
2. Decide if the process is something I can do myself.
cmyers300m: I was told that a new battery pack (currently) costs around $3000. However, I agree with jrct9454 in that prices should be significantly lower by the time that it will need replacing.
After 2200 miles with my CVT, by manually computing my MPG (miles / gallons dispensed), I am also seeing the onboard computer overstating the MPG by 10% I buy my gas at various dealers in different weather conditions, so I have eliminated gas pump calibration as a variable.
Since I was the one who supported the computer's calculation in an earlier post, my apologies to the original poster. You're right, it's off.
However, I live and work in a small coastal suburb of LA with the worst possible conditions for mileage: residential area with lots of hills and a 4-way stops at every corner. I manage 37-40 mpg, using every trick I know, such as gathering speed downhill/coasting uphill, rolling stops, easy acceleration, higher tire inflation, etc.
Your experiences would be appreciated. Thanks.
Mike
to drive to work. Since we purchased it, we have had nothing but trouble.
The gas mileage is averaging about 39-40 MPG.
This is a result of mechanical calculations from several tanks of fuel from different stations and/
or pumps. The electronic mileage indicator on the
dashboard indicates consistently 41.2-5 MPG, so in
reference to other postings, the electronic MPG calculator on the dashboard is off. I am not overly impressed with the MPG, but figure that
this is because of both the usage of AC and driver inexperience with how to draw the most
efficiency from the motor.
However, we had not had the car for a week
when while my wife was driving to work, the Low-
battery, IMA, and engine Malfunction lights all
came on at the same time. We took the car to the
dealer and received a loaner vehicle to use. The
service people, in contact with tech support,
thought that the computer had not been booted com-
pletely. So they did a complete reboot. I picked
up the car, drove it all that afternoon with no
problems. The next day, I decided to drive it to
work. On the way, the same Low-battery, IMA, and
Engine Malf. lights flashed on again. The dealer
came to my workplace with another loaner and picked up my car. After several days of testing
and driving, they narrowed the trouble down to a
set of electronic sensors that monitor and regulate voltage between the battery and IMA battery systems. They swapped out the sensors with
another Hybrid and returned the car to me. The other Hybrid later failed in test driving with the
same array of warning lights. I thought that the
problems were over.
Now, the car is in the shop again. Last week
the Engine Malf. light flashed on again. The service people with their amazing computer could
not find out why. Now, three days later, they say
that in collaboration with tech support, it appears to be another sensor. Sound familiar?
We have had the car for less than 4 months
and 2500 miles, and have had the car in the shop
three times for related issues. Have any of you
had any trouble with your Hybrids, along this line
of trouble or any other?
We have had our CVT hybrid for two months and 1500 miles. It has worked like a dream. We like everything about it and as others have stated use it almost exclusively. Our SUV sits except for when we pick up large items from Home Depot, etc.
The power is actually pretty good, even for passing. We went on a 300 mile trip and it road well and I had several opportunities to pass.
Hope they get the problems sorted out, else you should tell them to give you a new hybrid. You may have to use your state's lemon law procedures.
So far, I don't have the IMA problem so far. It's been just under 900 miles. I have the same experience, however, with the 40 MPG instead of the posted 48/47 on sticker and 51 on the official Honda Civic Hybrid brochure. I drive "normal" as probably one would with a new car. Is it normal? I cannot imagine that I would be able to get to 50 MPG from driving from LA downtown to Palm Springs... I mostly drive from Orange County to San Diego and back.
Also, the inner steering wheel paint/color coat is running off by the thumb where I grab. Is this normal? It's only been 900 miles...
Other than these two items, I am really happy I have this Hybrid. Should I bring the car back to the dealership for question for the MPG and discoloration?
Also, I got an advice from the sales person to take the car back for service just to check up at 3000 miles. It would be at my own cost, but it would be good to check.
I got a cheaper deal out of three dealer ship on carpets and mud guard for $89 each set in Costa Mesa. It took about 4 days to come.
Anyone who has 5000 miles or more, better more, has a legitimate beef if the car is not performing properly...until then, be patient, and you'll see better results down the road.
The color should not run off on to your hands. I did not have that problem, though I only experienced the standard wheel surface for a few weeks. I purchased the leather wrap add-on from Honda. It is far superior to anything you can get in an auto parts store. Uses thin unbreakable tread and is high quality leather. Has unpunched sections that match were the wheel spokes are. Kit costs $59.00. They want about $100.oo to install. I installed it myself in about 1-1/2 hours. Looks like original equipment.
> 40 MPG instead of the posted 48/47 on sticker
> and 51 on the official Honda Civic Hybrid
> brochure. I drive "normal" as probably one would
> with a new car. Is it normal?... I mostly
> drive from Orange County to San Diego and back.
You might want to know that the 51 mpg is for the 5-speed (46/51); you must have bought the CVT, which has the 48/47 rating.
As others have noted, you can expect mileage to increase as the car breaks in; many people see a noticeable improvement around 5000 miles. I would think, though, that on your route you could do better than 40...I'm getting about 46 on a surface-streets commute with lotsa stops and no open highway driving.
A great place to look for some driving tips is InsightCentral (www.insightcentral.net); these pages are focused on the Honda Insight, but most of the driving tips apply to the Civic Hybrid, too. Also, if you're using the A/C a lot, this will seriously dent your mileage--most people say 8-10 mpg.
> The gas gauge stopped decrementing with
> 4 marks left on the bar....After the fill
> the gas gauge is stuck on full -- even
> after 80 miles.
Nearly all gas gauges are non-linear: that is, the last 1/4 tank shown by the gauge goes much, much faster than the first 1/4 tank. The HCH's seems a little more linear than most, but definitely the first few bars still last the longest. It's not too surprising, then, that it seems "stuck on full" (you've probably used less than 2 gallons), but the failure to go all the way down suggests a bad gauge or sensor.
1. Drove into a headwind all the way.
2. Averaged 75 mph and I think optimum mileage on the CVT can be obtained between 45-60 mph.
3. Used cruise control a lot. I'm convinced I can do better than C/C.
On the return trip, I got 42.4 mpg. No headwind to plow into and I used my foot more than C/C.
It's unfair to compare this car with my 2000 Accord EX, but the Accord is a better travelling car comfort-wise. But then, that is unfair. The Civic isn't the Accord...yet.
riley
On the other hand the promise of a directly proportional gas consumption to miles covered is hard to resist.
Heres courier Nirvana: 50 gallons for 5,000 miles regardless of a thousand stops and 50 hours idling (gas engine in auto stop PLS!!) in between.
In less than a year you'd be recouping the hybrid premium no sweat (-;
I do toggle the A/C button off when going up a hill. Anyone else doing things like this?
I've got 2800 miles and like most of you, I'm getting in the low to mid-40's in terms of MPG.
Rob V.
BTW, anyone else see the latest Road and Track, where they're speculating on an Acura NSX hybrid?
as far as mileage goes, i drive a HCH as a dealer demo...the trick is to use the mileage indicator like a video game...no matter what the performance does...its tough, but in suburban driving with a little highway mixed in, im getting a 48.3 avg.
however, dont be alarmed with a little less...how many times has a car actually achieved the posted EPA rating on the sticker? lol
One thing I was wondering about was the tires, I have Dunlop SP25E or something like that. Now, I heard some of you say that you have Michelin's and I was wondering, could it be that only one of these are low roll resistant and the other is just a regular 14" tire? I was thinking maybe that my mileage was poorer because my tires might be regular 14". I went to the dunlop site and looked at what they said about my tires. They didn't mention anything about low roll resistance.
Finally, I was thinking of installing a Navigation system for my car since I'm a courier. I was looking at the Alpine systems, but was wondering if my Honda dealer would be able to install a system for me from their aftermarket's department. I'm thinking that they can install either the odyssey/acura mdx navigation systems, or maybe they have alpine aftermarket which they can install for me. Unless Honda can do it for me for less than $2000 all together, I don't think I will be doing it. After all, this is only going to be a three month job probably. I'm thinking of going to police academy in January if I pass the tests.
riley
even as a dealer, ive heard nothing about a 100k mile ceiling on the battery pack. it will be a maintenence item, just as brakes are, but i think the amount of time you use the car will determine the longevity of it rather than the mileage.
After looking at hybrids for the last year I finally settled on the Honda. I have had the car since Aug. 12 and am loving it more and more with each passing miles. The dealer threw in a tank of gas which I am still using. I have 535 miles and three lights left on the fuel gauge. Anyone know how many miles one can go when the last light is lit? I did set the Trip B on Monday to see what kind of mileage I could get commuting to work and back. My school is twenty-two miles away and 1300 feet higher in elevation. I get 51.5 on the way there and over sixty coming home for a combined average of 57.5. This has been consistent all week with over 200 miles. I certainly do play the video game and try to coast when possible. Even though I am trying to get great gas mileage I do get the car up to speed fairly rapidly. I have been very impressed with the pep and love the five speed. Guess I should have mentioned the transmission earlier. I am convinced that the the driver has better control of the gas mileage with a standard, more ways to cut corners.
What about the downshift arrows? The up shift work fine and I try to shift then unless the road is climbing. I have yet to get the down shift arrow to light even lugging the engine in fifth gear at twenty mph. Anyone else having this problem. It sure is nice to have this sort of a hybrid support group.
>> I was thinking maybe that my mileage was poorer
>> because my tires might be regular 14".
> all HCH's have dunlop tires...anyone with
> anything different has either replaced them,
> or the dealer did it.
Not so: mine came off the truck with Bridgestones. All HCHs, however, ship with low-rolling-resistance tires of some kind.
One thing to check is your tire *pressure*--the manual says only 30 psi, which gives a softer ride, but the tires can safely go much higher. I've raised mine to 36, which noticeably improved mpg without giving an uncomfortable ride.
> costs over the long term?...Even the purchase
> premium vs. a regular Civic doesn't make
> financial sense. Am I missing something???
No, you're not missing anything. Here's a quick comparison. To make it easy, assume you bought each vehicle at (heaven forbid) MSRP, drove it for a lifetime of 200,000 miles of half city and half highway driving, got exactly the EPA rated fuel efficiency and paid $1.50 per gallon for gas. I also only calculated for 5-speeds.
Given these assumptions, you'd spend $6202 in gas for the hybrid, compared to $7575 for an HX, $8391 for a DX or LX and $8742 for the relatively gas-guzzling EX. But adding this to the MSRP gives $26303 for the hybrid, more even than an EX sedan at $26211. The total cost for a DX sedan would be $21861 and for the economical HX $21646.
So, no, the fuel savings don't offset the purchase cost as compared to another Civic, even without considering potential battery replacement.
Buying the hybrid is more of a statement about saving gas (nearly 1000 gallons in our hypothetical calculation even compared to the HX; 1700 compared to the EX) and lowering pollution than it is about saving money.
> the last light is lit?
I suspect there might be some individual differences here. On my car, the gas warning light comes on almost exactly when the gas gauge has one bar left, and at this point it takes 12.5 gallons to fill the tank. This would leave 0.7 gallons, so just multiply that by your average mpg...though it's never a great idea to count on getting all of that last gallon...
> What about the downshift arrows?
Yeah, you have to practically stall the car to get the arrow to come on. I guess part of the point of this is that the hybrid is happy at a much lower RPM than a typical car--even if you need to accelerate, you can often press down hard and get the assist to help you without the lugging you'd feel in most cars. But I agree that they may have overdone it a little here...
> It sure is nice to have this sort of a hybrid
> support group.
Try also the civic_hybrid (which is more active than the confusingly similar civic-hybrid) Yahoo! group.
if you figure on the 25% bracket, this totals $1250 over the next 4 years. and as the feature content is closer to the EX than the LX, this makes the difference substantial.
p.s. dont forget to add $250 to your EX number for the side airbags that the hybrid has standard.
On another gas gauge topic - when all my lights go out, I take just under 12 gallons. So there's about a 1.5 gallon reserve.
No fuel gauge is anything but a very rough approximation of what is in the tank except when it is very full or about to be empty...and this has been true for my entire 40+ years of driving.
The nature of float-based measuring systems means that there is no definitive answer to the question about how long it takes to get the needle to move - it depends too much on the nuances of each fill, which are going to be different unless you fill it to overflowing each time.
1. What type of oil is used in the CH and do I have to take it to the dealer for oil changes, if so why?
2. Are all the '03 CH's made in Japan?
3. How would I decide between manual and standard trans.?
Thanks in advance for any & all help I appreciate it.
2: yes, all HCH's are built in japan along side the insight and the S2000.
3: the decision between the manual and auto is a completely personal one...you should get a few more MPG in the manual, but the auto is a much easier car to drive. the CVT is a little unsettling to drive at first, but when you get used to it, everything else becomes the "why do they still use those???"
its a beautiful and VERY smooth tranny.