Honda Civic Hybrid

johnparker

I am on waiting list for an 08 Honda Hybrid. I will be selling my 06 Accord. Is the 40 mpg fairly accurate? Actually I would be pleased with 35 mpg. I get only 25 on my Accord with a 4 cyl engine. Will I be sorry? I buy new when mileage gets over 30,000. Most of my driving is in city type stop & go traffic. Help! Would I be better off with a regular Civic EX?

jim314

The fuel economy of a Civic Hybrid could be a slow as the high 20s mpg in midwestern winter city traffic, but averaged over the year and over all driving environments it will be higher significantly than an Accord 4-cyl.

But you would never recover the cost of trading. The depreciation cost of trading at 30kmi is high. Why would you do that? An Accord with 30kmi on the odo will last a long time before it starts costing money in repairs.

An Accord 4-cyl is a pretty effcient car. If you trade it in on a Civic Hybrid, you will be competing with all the overwrought buyers who must have one of the highest mpg cars available, even if it doesn't make economic sense for them.

whgaunt

We have a 2004 Civic Hybrid and we are getting around 38 mpg city. We can get up to 50 mpg on the highway. If your only going to keep the car for 30,000 miles I would not buy a Hybrid. Your going to pay a lot more for the Hybrid over a standard car and you will not get that back in 30,000. We have 56,000 on our 2004 and I'm thinking another three years before it gets replaced. Just my thoughts.

whgaunt

gsspike

We have been driving smart. Our lowest was 46 actual computer said 42, our highest was 52.52 actual and the computer said 46. We have had the car 2 months.

mickeyrom

sounds to me like your computer is almost useless.Heck,you can guess and come that close.

johnparker

Thanks for response to my question on Honda Hybrid. I haven't made my decision as yet. I did put a refundable deposit down to get on waiting list for one car in transit. Have you checked the prices on used ones? High plus hard to find. Re-sale value is surely going to remain high. I'm selling my Accord outright for $17,250. New Hybrid is $23,700 in San Antonio. I normally get rid of them when warranty expires. I know it sounds stupid, but cars are my passion. I also get bored with them after about 3 yrs. I would also like to know how people are satisfied with a regular Civic. Heck I'm 76 yrs old and every car I buy I figure it might be my last one.

Karen_S

A reporter would like to talk to consumers who are in the market for a compact, subcompact or hybrid vehicle but have had trouble finding one. Please respond to jwahl@edmunds.com with your daytime contact information along with the vehicle you are shopping for no later than Thursday, June 19th.

1stpik

I live in Dallas. After one year and 24,000 miles, my Civic hybrid has averaged 48 mpg. That's city, highway, summer, winter, short trips to the store, long trips across the country, etc. And that 48 mpg isn't just some exaggerated claim. I left one trip meter untouched since I bought the thing, and it records the cumulative mpg.

Now, to get that kind of efficiency, I do have to drive differently than I used to. My maximum highway cruise is 65 mph. Around town, I take it easy on the acceleration, and I use the cruise control, because it delivers fuel more efficiently than my foot can.

I work with a guy who bought a Prius last year. He drives it like the average American -- 75 mph cruise, jackrabbit starts -- and he gets 40 mpg in it. So, any way you operate a hybrid, you'll still be better off than in a regular car.

As for the cost vs. keeping your Accord, that's simply a personal choice. When you bought your Accord new, nobody told you that it would never "pay back" its purchase price. That wasn't a factor, because you were simply choosing to buy a particular car. And that's just what you're doing now -- choosing to buy another kind of car.

Also, consider the resale value of hybrids today. It's extremely high. I paid $22,000 for mine a year ago, and according to KBB.com, I could get $18,000 for it right now. And that $4,000 depreciation is almost cancelled out by the $2,100 tax refund I received from the IRS for buying a hybrid, plus the $600 in gas savings vs. the regular Civic.

Anyone who tells you not to buy a hybrid because it costs too much, or that your old car is just fine, needs to prove a couple of things to maintain credibility:

First, he has to be driving the same car that he bought 10 years (or more) ago. Second, he has to clip coupons and buy generic foods when he goes grocery shopping, and buy his clothes at Wal Mart, and use bargain dial-up internet service, because saving money and buying the least expensive item is what life is all about.

Buy whatever car you want. If you buy a gas guzzler, you'll get a great deal on it because nobody wants one right now. If you buy a Civic hybrid, you'll get at least 40 mpg, and you'll be able to sell it any time for a decent price.

Your choice.
.

74apollo

We bought our Civic Hybrid in January '08 and have 5,604 miles on it. We left one trip meter untouched since we purchased it and are averaging 40.2 mpg for combined city & hwy miles. I just ret'd from a 365 mile highway trip and averaged 48.9. I have found the optimum speed for best mpg is 67 or 68 on the highway.

The big question I'm hearing right now is whether the "payback" is worth the purchase price. That is the same mentality as the US auto manufacturers have had over the past 20 years and is why they haven't had an incentive to build more fuel efficient cars. Ask yourself this, where do you want to spend your money? On gas or on a car that uses less gas? Consumers need to force US auto manufacturers to build more fuel efficient cars so we can get off our addiction to gasoline/oil. The only way to do that is to buy hybrids (made by foreigners) until someone can come up with a better way to fuel a car. Gasoline is NOT the answer.

johnparker

1stpik, you hit the nail on the head and yours is the most intelligent response thus far to my question on a Honda Hybrid. Thank you for being so understanding and the least narrow minded. You seemed to fully understand about the future value of the Hybrid in terms of re-sale value. I usually get rid of my card when they approach the point of the warranty expiring. I know I will pay more for the Hybrid now but should recoup 3 years down the line when I get rid of it. Thank you again for your response.

johnparker

Thank you 74apollo for your response on my question concerning a Honda Hybrid. I fully agree with you on your point about domestic auto manufacturers. If they had their way EVERYONE would be driving a pickup or an SUV. Their focus has always been on the Macho side of things. Thanks again for your response.

gsspike

We like it that way. When fill up time comes we can always plan on doing better than expected. When the trip meter is reading 600 miles and lite still hasn't come on and the computer says 46 mpg average, it's a nice feeling.

I was a Toyota service manager for 16 years and the Prius was just the opposite. You always did worse than the computer said. Actually on the Prius with it's Bladder style gas tank it was almost impossible to take a true MPG reading and that came down from Toyota.

stevedebi

"If they had their way EVERYONE would be driving a pickup or an SUV. Their focus has always been on the Macho side of things."

It has nothing to do with "Macho". The SUVs and trucks have a higher profit margin. That is why the manufacturers like to sell them. Cheaper and smaller cars have a lower profit margin.

jim314

This is a frank explanation of your motivation for trading as soon as the warranty runs out. Getting rid of a car while it still has nothing wrong with it allows a clean deal in which you can get a good price. Saves a lot of agonizing.

I also enjoy cars, but I am pathologically frugal, and in addition I have a terrible time deciding what car to buy out of the wide range of choices available. I usually keep a car until I cannot stand to do the next set of repairs, and then sell it for very little to a buyer whom I inform about what's wrong with it.

A year ago, after over 16 years of ownership, I sold my 1991 Dodge Spirit 4-dr sedan 4-cyl 5-spd for nothing. I wanted to "give it a good home." I had been looking at new cars for 6 years, but could never decide on anything. I looked at the Prius, VW Jetta TDI wagon (wish I had got that in 2002 or so), Kia Sedona, Dodge/Mercedes Sprinter van, Subaru Outback, . . . but could never commit to anything.

I took my wife's car as a hand-me-down--a 2004 Volvo V70 wagon, a base model 2.4L 5-cyl with auto tranny (28,000 mi on the odo when I got it)--because she strongly wanted a vehicle with dynamic stability control. I really wanted a manual tranny, but it made economic sense for me to take her car, which was well cared for mechanically, but the interior was worn and grimy due to our using it for camping, hauling gardening supplies, and trips with three dogs. Right now I plan to keep this vehicle for the forseeable future. I put a trailer hitch on it and have used it to tow a 1500 lb gross wt trailer and have slept in the back in state park campgrounds on a couple of long distance trips. I get ~20 mpg around town on short trips, and well over 30mpg on the highway. Even driving 70 mph (or sometimes over where the speed limits are higher in west Texas, New Mexico or Arizona) I get over 30 mpg.

Does the 2nd row seatback in a Civic Hybrid fold down? If not, this would limit its utility for bulky cargo. This also means you can't sleep in the back, which you could do in an Accord or even a regular Civic. But if you don't need to carry bulky cargo and sleep in the back, then not having that capability is not a concern.

For me a three-year-old Accord 4-cyl would be a like new car which I would not be thinking of parting with, but I celebrate your enthusiasm for getting something new.

2mnycats1

I bought my HCH last year and was able to get back $2,100 on my taxes as a tax credit (not a reduction in your taxable income, but a full tax credit). This is being lowered this year, but it looks like if you buy one before the end of June you will still get half of that, If you buy one before the end of the year you will get 25%. Glad I bought mine when I did, as it offset the premium for the hybrid. Personally, I think they should keep this in force, but I guess now with hybrids in such demand a lot of folks will buy them anyway. For more info:

http://taxes.about.com/od/deductionscredits/a/hybridtaxcredit_4.htm

misterme

Report:

I've owned my 2004 HCH1 CVT since new.
It currently has over 122,000 miles.
It's had regular serviced maintenance, but no problems at all, except an occasional interior rattle.
OEM tires replaced at 88,000 miles, Dealer says OEM brakes have "plenty left".
Starts, runs, drives as day one.

I hypermiled it to the extreme from 2004-2006 for a personal MPG record of 74.9, that's 1004 miles on a single tank.
My commute have changed to less favorable since 2006 and average a little over 60MPG (+800 miles/tank). Lifetime MPG including the extreme hypermiling years is about 65.

Hands down, this has been both the most fun car I've ever owned (out of about 12) and saved many thousands $$ over the years.

Additionally,
The car has taught me how to drive truly efficiently which we have transfered over to our other vehicles for further savings.

It has been the best automotive choice I could have ever made.

-Steve

jim314

Wow!

roger1655

I just went over 1,000 miles on my new HCHII; so far 43.3 MPG. I'm not doing anything special except going a little slower than before. What did you have to do to get 70+ MPG? How does one become a hypermiler?

misterme

Thank you roger1655.

It took two years of experimenting with what works to save fuel- and what doesn't, and applying every one of those to the unpractical extreme. I was able to do so because I worked off-hours, have a 50 mile commute and drove home at 2-3AM on nearly or completely abandoned roads. But still, my personal record is what it is.

My commute have changed since then to regular hours, and no longer able to reach those rediculous figures, but still able to maintain about 60MPG using all of these tips I posted in a safe, courtious manner (Tips near the page bottom):

mickeyrom, "Honda Civic Hybrid MPG-Real World Numbers" #378, 12 Jun 2008 11:23 am

There are some well known tips there, as well as some not so common. A lot for someone to remember, but becomes 2nd hand if made routine.
For more hypermiling info, some other good sites are:
www.gassavers.org www.cleanmpg.com

-Steve

licarshopper

hey I am thinking of buying Civic.. I am just wondering does the navigation system get traffic updates? Since I am buying this car for long commutes, it would be nice.

roger1655

I've had my Civic for almost 1 year and I don't see any option to view traffic information on the Nav. I think you can get traffic info via the XM radio and that may work for you.

steve_douglass

Last September I drove to the east San Francisco Bay Area, from the Seattle area on Highway 5. That includes the pass over the mountains in Southern Oregon. I drove mostly 60 mph, but dropped to 40 in the truck lanes going over the mountains. Moderately warm weather, which helps mileage, did not use AC. Got an indicated 53 mpg. These mileage calculators should be mandatory on all new cars. The more I drive with it, the better I get.

texastownhall

I want to get back to Civic. I was thinking about LX actually but to compare the Hybrid, I want to compare to the EX.

Yes. Hybrid are better at gas savings than then regular but it cost more.

So what is a benefit of hybrid, and what would one be sacrificing for driving hybrid?

Power? Handling? Whining noise? Reliability? Maintenance cost?

chefmd

If you are thinking about buying a Civic Hybrid, read the forum about IMA issues. The IMA is hybrid part of the engine. Mine started crapping out, a year after I bought it at about 17,000 miles. By the time it reached 22,000 miles it had been replaced twice, thankfully under warranty. But by this time I had had enough as the problems are never really "fixed" I sold the lemon while I could still get something back for it. Based on my experience with the car and the dealer I would never buy another Honda, and avoid the Hybrid Civic at all costs.

kingfans1

wow I am in love with HCH already.

grunn320

Fair warning mate, if you get a recall letter from Honda to update your IMA battery software, think twice before you have it done. See http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f145abe for more info

grunn320

I second your sentiment, my 07 HCH is also having IMA battery problems since Hondas update. I strongly urge anyone interested in a HCH to read the posts on Honda Civic Hybrid IMA battery problems. It is not the wonderful car I once thought it was. The batteries are inadequate for the electric power assist and in time will result in reduced power assist, reduced gas mileage and potential safety hazards.

jcihak

After reading your post I thought I wrote it. I had an '09 HCH for 1 1/2 years and 28k miles. After the B12 tune-up my mileage dropped from 47mpg to barely 41 (country roads at 50 mph). Even worse, the IMA rarely charged up the battery and IMA assist was feeble. It became unsafe to drive. Honda was no help. After reading these forums I realized that even if the problem was fixed, the issues with Honda's defective IMA system and CVT transmission would cost me more money than I would ever save in gas. I traded the car in 3 weeks ago. I am so happy to be rid of it.

austex1

My 2003 Honda Civic Hybrid has a little over 91,000 miles and the transmission is going out. I am totally disgusted. I have suffered through 2 or 3 recalls already and now the car has become a bucket of bolts. The only bright spot is that the dealer has been cooperative and offered to offset some of the charges but here is the real issue: I was told that the CVT trans is NOT REPAIRABLE only REPLACEABLE. The cost: over $3500. Is it time for a class action lawsuit?

Kirstie_H

The Forums can't be used to organize legal action - this isn't negotiable, sorry.

rd5418

That is a bunch of garbage ! You should work for Honda since you already have the talking points down.

I admit it, I drive really fast and expect to get less MPGs than other people, but I was getting 60 mpg when I first purchased the car and it dropped to 27 MPGs after the upgrade.

It has nothing to do with my driving as I always drove the same. I am happy for you that you have not experienced these problems. Maybe it has somethng to do with pollution laws here and your country does not need this software upgrade.

Here, the evidence is clear. We have been taken for a ride and not the 60 MPG one either.

davhan

Kirstie_H

Keep in mind that the message you're responding to was written 4-1/2 years ago, before HCH owners began experiencing problems.

hybridpatsy

Hi Tom - did not want to post this on FB so here's the answers. I traded my 2007 HCH in and received $11,000 plus a $400 credit for a total added security package (covers all oil changes, tire rotations, and other normal maintenance) for the three years I will have the Forester. I did not want to make a car payment at all since I had not expected to get rid of the HCH so soon so did a three year lease with Subaru. I paid nothing, have no maintenance or other repairs costs, my insurance only went up about $40 every six months and when I press down on the gas pedal the Forester does not stall and actually has some pickup. I made a left-hand turn across traffic the other nite and the HCH did that hesitation thing and that was the final straw. I had the car at the dealership last week where they could not replicate the no bar/no pickup issue so I had been thinking about it. I told the Subaru dealer I needed a higher car to get in/out of more easily. I always liked the CRV but was not giving Honda anything for selling me a dangerous car; I also suspect I would have gotten less for the HCH there because they know more about the issues with it.

My car had new tires, oil change last week and 25,300 miles on it. It also had, thanks to our 150 pound dog and my over-zealous snow removal methods, scratches that they will likely have to buff out and fix. I rated the car as good and the KBB thru cars.com was $11,500. I note that the KBB at the Honda dealer's website was $12,950 but that salesmen said they were not accurate. I had researched and knew that price was too high and just to get you there and then they would kick it down. In the end, I never even went to Honda.

I drive less than 10,000 miles a year so a lease was a good option at this point, the subaru is a PZEV. I was averaging less than 35 miles per gallon on the HCH lately (after the IMA upgrade and whatever they did when I said the regular battery was dying). I could coast on the highway before last August and get 60MPG. Last time I was around 34 MPG. So while I will use more gas at the 26MPG we see in our other Forester the difference is too minimal. I wish I had not had to do this but twice during the summer I was nearly killed when Barney and Fred were going faster pedalling with their feet and almost ran into me! It was amazing to me how nice it is to drive a car that actual runs correctly. I just read that post from the guy that still gets 56MPG or whatever and all he has to do to do that - that's absurd. I loved my HCH when I bought it and am sorry it ended up being such a dud because I had hoped to have it a long time and enjoy the fun of it. In the beginning it was so much fun to drive. Lately, it had just been an annoyance, scary and not worth it.

I also point out as an FYI, all of the Japanese dealers are very worried about stock. They anticipate prices going up soon. The Honda dealer tried to scare me with it - buy a CRV now we won't have them soon. The Subaru dealer mentioned it when the car I leased was being prepped and we were discussing the economy in general. So if you are thinking and going Japanese it seems prices will go up.

ttomaka

Wow, for whatever reason I did not see your message until just now. Thank you for your helpful, thoughtful explanation. Coincidentally, I have decided to take much the same path you took. My 2008 HCH is up for sale, and I am partial to getting a Subaru in place of the HCH! As a member of the International Mountain Bike Association, Subaru will give me a smokin' discount.
Let's stay in touch!

hybridpatsy

Pretty sure you will be happier in the Subaru, and much safer also. I am amazed at how much I put up with in the HCH just thinking it was "normal." Now I am not afraid of being killed in my car when I turn left or try to merge onto a highway. I picked up some hypermiling techniques driving the hybrid and will likely always do them. I wanted to keep the car for at least ten years and am still not happy that I really lost money but it was simply not safe. I did get a notice the other day about a class-action suit over the visors - big deal - the least of my problem would have been a visor cracking Happy Fourth of July! :lemon:

stever

A reporter is interested in talking with parents who own a 2012 Volkswagen Passat, Mazda 3, Chevy Cruze Eco, Honda Civic Hybrid, Chevy Sonic, Honda CR-V, Toyota Camry and Toyota Prius V. If you are interested in commenting on your experience, please reply to pr@edmunds.com no later than Friday, November 30, 2011 and include your city and state of residence, the model year of your vehicle and the age of your child/ren.

peatnick

Bought a 2009 HCH new in Oct. 2008 and am eligible to participate in a class action settlement for under performing MPG

http://www.hchsettlement.com/Home.aspx

I'll get a whopping $100 to compensate me for the average 37 MPG achieved over my ownership vs the EPA window sticker 40 city 45 highway

To make up the difference between the real cost of the 400 gallons of fuel purchased in the 75,000 miles driven so far and the $100 cash payment American Honda offers owners two options:

A) $1,000 non-transferable rebate on the purchase or lease of a new Honda provided the 2009 HCH is traded in or sold in a bona fide arms length transaction

$500 transferable rebate on the purchase or lease of a new Honda without the proviso of trading or selling the 2009 HCH

My 17 year old wants the HCH but we generally do not keep hybrid vehicles beyond the Federally mandated 100,000 mile hybrid system warranty period our 2009 HCH will soon eclipse

Both rebates are valid 12 month from issuance, claims for the settlement must be postmarked no later than April 19, 2013

Which rebate option would you suggest and why please?

trendao

One advantage of the new hybrid battery is that it is smaller, for a given capacity, compared to last years battery. This helps keep a relatively large truck area, but doesn't allow for a fold down rear seat.

aladdinsane

I wonder if the suits at Honda will finally give the Civic Hybrid a sunroof option. I'm aware of the slight weight issue a sunroof may ensue, but a power sunroof would be such a pleasant thing to have, especially installed from factory and with the Hybrid model, IMHO.
Peace!<-AladdinSane-<- :shades: -

jah40

Well at least you've got some action even though I'll admit the settlement is outrageously bad for consumers.

In Canada I lodged a Better Business Bureau complaint, but Honda Canada evrn ignored the BBB.

In March 2012 Honda Canada stated it would honor the US settlement in Canada, but two months after that bad deal was finalized, nothing by way of an update from Honda Canada, and "Customer Service" knows nothing.

Likely they're hoping we'll all die or sell the vehicles before action is taken. I bought my first Honda, and it will likely be my last even though I like the car. Honda Canada seems to thumb its nose at customers. However my dealer Carter Honda has been great.

Jim

peatnick

Sorry to Honda Canada has left you cold, hope they come around and honor the US settlement, stingy as it is

Wound up taking the "transferable $500 rebate" hoping to sell it on eBay, doubt there is another Honda purchase in my future either, although still planning to hold onto the HCH for another year or two...

All my Honda dealer did for me is install the 2010 IMS software update that irrevocably reduces battery consumption and inversely increases fuel consumption, last trip ever for me to Willis Honda, although we still take it to another Honda dealer in the area for the 0/20W oil changes

jah40

Yes, my only complaint with my dealer is that the service manager talked me into the update against my better judgement.

However, given Honda Canada's rotten attitude on this matter, I'd have hated to deal with the suckers if I'd refused the update and the battery failed, as much as I know it would be Honda's responsibility.

Have a friend and his brother in law who bought Honda Civic Hybrids within a month of me at Richmond Honda and they're certainly not impressed with Honda Canada either.

Good luck in selling your rebate voucher.

Jim

peatnick

Willis Honda service never even asked, brought in due to low MPG, they applied patch without discussing

Probably would have gone along with it but in hindsight didn't address MPG but battery life, IMS engages less often after the patch, hence less wear and tear on the battery but also less MPG

ahapshie

the wife has a 2004 HCH with 130 k on the odo. recently it started giving us fits because the battery pack is deteriating. we replaced the engine battery. car ran normal for about a month before it crapped out again. the hybrid battery ( when it starts to fail)will pull energy from the 12 volt engine battery killing the electrical system. i have discovered that if you shut off the battery pack at the battery, behind the rear seat, the electric motor will continue to keep the engine battery charged so the car can be driven. for those with auto tranny, you will notice a drop in performance. we have a five speed. one of the few that were made. your performance and fuel economy will be compromised, but at least the car can still be driven daily. it will start like a normal car instead of the hydrid system. at this time i do not know if we will replace the battry pack. and yes there are a couple of companies that make remanufactured batter packs. anywhere from around 1500 to 2000 dollars american. installing a new battery pack is a straight forward install. fairly simple. just make sure to disconnect the 12 volt battery before beginning.
if you want to turn the ima light off on the dash, go into the fuse box under the hood and remove the fuse for the ima system. it is a 20 amp fuse. also one under the dash.
i hope this info will help those that are having battery pack failure.

acrackerjack

Has anyone any idea when we will hear something concerning our claims for rebates? The www.hchsettlement.com website has been silient since Nov 2012. The rebate is holding up me buying another car. I want to get rid of this POS and want to buy an Accord. I will give them a second chance. I hope I am making the right decision.

I already replaced one Honda with a VW Passat TDI, and love it. 44 mpg!!! And Power!!!

peatnick

Mailed my claim form in before Christmas but haven't heard anything, did you try calling the class action legal representatives, they are making $8.5M . . .

Glad you like your TDI, was looking at one too, did you get the sedan or wagon?

annette10

I see the site was updated January 17, 2013, but don't see anything new. I've also been waiting for a year (!) to get my rebate so I can buy / sell my Civic.