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Comments
But you would never recover the cost of trading. The depreciation cost of trading at 30kmi is high. Why would you do that? An Accord with 30kmi on the odo will last a long time before it starts costing money in repairs.
An Accord 4-cyl is a pretty effcient car. If you trade it in on a Civic Hybrid, you will be competing with all the overwrought buyers who must have one of the highest mpg cars available, even if it doesn't make economic sense for them.
whgaunt
Now, to get that kind of efficiency, I do have to drive differently than I used to. My maximum highway cruise is 65 mph. Around town, I take it easy on the acceleration, and I use the cruise control, because it delivers fuel more efficiently than my foot can.
I work with a guy who bought a Prius last year. He drives it like the average American -- 75 mph cruise, jackrabbit starts -- and he gets 40 mpg in it. So, any way you operate a hybrid, you'll still be better off than in a regular car.
As for the cost vs. keeping your Accord, that's simply a personal choice. When you bought your Accord new, nobody told you that it would never "pay back" its purchase price. That wasn't a factor, because you were simply choosing to buy a particular car. And that's just what you're doing now -- choosing to buy another kind of car.
Also, consider the resale value of hybrids today. It's extremely high. I paid $22,000 for mine a year ago, and according to KBB.com, I could get $18,000 for it right now. And that $4,000 depreciation is almost cancelled out by the $2,100 tax refund I received from the IRS for buying a hybrid, plus the $600 in gas savings vs. the regular Civic.
Anyone who tells you not to buy a hybrid because it costs too much, or that your old car is just fine, needs to prove a couple of things to maintain credibility:
First, he has to be driving the same car that he bought 10 years (or more) ago. Second, he has to clip coupons and buy generic foods when he goes grocery shopping, and buy his clothes at Wal Mart, and use bargain dial-up internet service, because saving money and buying the least expensive item is what life is all about.
Buy whatever car you want. If you buy a gas guzzler, you'll get a great deal on it because nobody wants one right now. If you buy a Civic hybrid, you'll get at least 40 mpg, and you'll be able to sell it any time for a decent price.
Your choice.
.
The big question I'm hearing right now is whether the "payback" is worth the purchase price. That is the same mentality as the US auto manufacturers have had over the past 20 years and is why they haven't had an incentive to build more fuel efficient cars. Ask yourself this, where do you want to spend your money? On gas or on a car that uses less gas? Consumers need to force US auto manufacturers to build more fuel efficient cars so we can get off our addiction to gasoline/oil. The only way to do that is to buy hybrids (made by foreigners) until someone can come up with a better way to fuel a car. Gasoline is NOT the answer.
I was a Toyota service manager for 16 years and the Prius was just the opposite. You always did worse than the computer said. Actually on the Prius with it's Bladder style gas tank it was almost impossible to take a true MPG reading and that came down from Toyota.
It has nothing to do with "Macho". The SUVs and trucks have a higher profit margin. That is why the manufacturers like to sell them. Cheaper and smaller cars have a lower profit margin.
I also enjoy cars, but I am pathologically frugal, and in addition I have a terrible time deciding what car to buy out of the wide range of choices available. I usually keep a car until I cannot stand to do the next set of repairs, and then sell it for very little to a buyer whom I inform about what's wrong with it.
A year ago, after over 16 years of ownership, I sold my 1991 Dodge Spirit 4-dr sedan 4-cyl 5-spd for nothing. I wanted to "give it a good home." I had been looking at new cars for 6 years, but could never decide on anything. I looked at the Prius, VW Jetta TDI wagon (wish I had got that in 2002 or so), Kia Sedona, Dodge/Mercedes Sprinter van, Subaru Outback, . . . but could never commit to anything.
I took my wife's car as a hand-me-down--a 2004 Volvo V70 wagon, a base model 2.4L 5-cyl with auto tranny (28,000 mi on the odo when I got it)--because she strongly wanted a vehicle with dynamic stability control. I really wanted a manual tranny, but it made economic sense for me to take her car, which was well cared for mechanically, but the interior was worn and grimy due to our using it for camping, hauling gardening supplies, and trips with three dogs. Right now I plan to keep this vehicle for the forseeable future. I put a trailer hitch on it and have used it to tow a 1500 lb gross wt trailer and have slept in the back in state park campgrounds on a couple of long distance trips. I get ~20 mpg around town on short trips, and well over 30mpg on the highway. Even driving 70 mph (or sometimes over where the speed limits are higher in west Texas, New Mexico or Arizona) I get over 30 mpg.
Does the 2nd row seatback in a Civic Hybrid fold down? If not, this would limit its utility for bulky cargo. This also means you can't sleep in the back, which you could do in an Accord or even a regular Civic. But if you don't need to carry bulky cargo and sleep in the back, then not having that capability is not a concern.
For me a three-year-old Accord 4-cyl would be a like new car which I would not be thinking of parting with, but I celebrate your enthusiasm for getting something new.
http://taxes.about.com/od/deductionscredits/a/hybridtaxcredit_4.htm
I've owned my 2004 HCH1 CVT since new.
It currently has over 122,000 miles.
It's had regular serviced maintenance, but no problems at all, except an occasional interior rattle.
OEM tires replaced at 88,000 miles, Dealer says OEM brakes have "plenty left".
Starts, runs, drives as day one.
I hypermiled it to the extreme from 2004-2006 for a personal MPG record of 74.9, that's 1004 miles on a single tank.
My commute have changed to less favorable since 2006 and average a little over 60MPG (+800 miles/tank). Lifetime MPG including the extreme hypermiling years is about 65.
Hands down, this has been both the most fun car I've ever owned (out of about 12) and saved many thousands $$ over the years.
Additionally,
The car has taught me how to drive truly efficiently which we have transfered over to our other vehicles for further savings.
It has been the best automotive choice I could have ever made.
-Steve
It took two years of experimenting with what works to save fuel- and what doesn't, and applying every one of those to the unpractical extreme. I was able to do so because I worked off-hours, have a 50 mile commute and drove home at 2-3AM on nearly or completely abandoned roads. But still, my personal record is what it is.
My commute have changed since then to regular hours, and no longer able to reach those rediculous figures, but still able to maintain about 60MPG using all of these tips I posted in a safe, courtious manner (Tips near the page bottom):
mickeyrom, "Honda Civic Hybrid MPG-Real World Numbers" #378, 12 Jun 2008 11:23 am
There are some well known tips there, as well as some not so common. A lot for someone to remember, but becomes 2nd hand if made routine.
For more hypermiling info, some other good sites are:
www.gassavers.org www.cleanmpg.com
-Steve
Yes. Hybrid are better at gas savings than then regular but it cost more.
So what is a benefit of hybrid, and what would one be sacrificing for driving hybrid?
Power? Handling? Whining noise? Reliability? Maintenance cost?
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2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
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I admit it, I drive really fast and expect to get less MPGs than other people, but I was getting 60 mpg when I first purchased the car and it dropped to 27 MPGs after the upgrade.
It has nothing to do with my driving as I always drove the same. I am happy for you that you have not experienced these problems. Maybe it has somethng to do with pollution laws here and your country does not need this software upgrade.
Here, the evidence is clear. We have been taken for a ride and not the 60 MPG one either.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
My car had new tires, oil change last week and 25,300 miles on it. It also had, thanks to our 150 pound dog and my over-zealous snow removal methods, scratches that they will likely have to buff out and fix. I rated the car as good and the KBB thru cars.com was $11,500. I note that the KBB at the Honda dealer's website was $12,950 but that salesmen said they were not accurate. I had researched and knew that price was too high and just to get you there and then they would kick it down. In the end, I never even went to Honda.
I drive less than 10,000 miles a year so a lease was a good option at this point, the subaru is a PZEV. I was averaging less than 35 miles per gallon on the HCH lately (after the IMA upgrade and whatever they did when I said the regular battery was dying). I could coast on the highway before last August and get 60MPG. Last time I was around 34 MPG. So while I will use more gas at the 26MPG we see in our other Forester the difference is too minimal. I wish I had not had to do this but twice during the summer I was nearly killed when Barney and Fred were going faster pedalling with their feet and almost ran into me! It was amazing to me how nice it is to drive a car that actual runs correctly. I just read that post from the guy that still gets 56MPG or whatever and all he has to do to do that - that's absurd. I loved my HCH when I bought it and am sorry it ended up being such a dud because I had hoped to have it a long time and enjoy the fun of it. In the beginning it was so much fun to drive. Lately, it had just been an annoyance, scary and not worth it.
I also point out as an FYI, all of the Japanese dealers are very worried about stock. They anticipate prices going up soon. The Honda dealer tried to scare me with it - buy a CRV now we won't have them soon. The Subaru dealer mentioned it when the car I leased was being prepped and we were discussing the economy in general. So if you are thinking and going Japanese it seems prices will go up.
Let's stay in touch!
http://www.hchsettlement.com/Home.aspx
I'll get a whopping $100 to compensate me for the average 37 MPG achieved over my ownership vs the EPA window sticker 40 city 45 highway
To make up the difference between the real cost of the 400 gallons of fuel purchased in the 75,000 miles driven so far and the $100 cash payment American Honda offers owners two options:
A) $1,000 non-transferable rebate on the purchase or lease of a new Honda provided the 2009 HCH is traded in or sold in a bona fide arms length transaction
My 17 year old wants the HCH but we generally do not keep hybrid vehicles beyond the Federally mandated 100,000 mile hybrid system warranty period our 2009 HCH will soon eclipse
Both rebates are valid 12 month from issuance, claims for the settlement must be postmarked no later than April 19, 2013
Which rebate option would you suggest and why please?
Peace!<-AladdinSane-<- :shades: -
In Canada I lodged a Better Business Bureau complaint, but Honda Canada evrn ignored the BBB.
In March 2012 Honda Canada stated it would honor the US settlement in Canada, but two months after that bad deal was finalized, nothing by way of an update from Honda Canada, and "Customer Service" knows nothing.
Likely they're hoping we'll all die or sell the vehicles before action is taken. I bought my first Honda, and it will likely be my last even though I like the car. Honda Canada seems to thumb its nose at customers. However my dealer Carter Honda has been great.
Jim
Wound up taking the "transferable $500 rebate" hoping to sell it on eBay, doubt there is another Honda purchase in my future either, although still planning to hold onto the HCH for another year or two...
All my Honda dealer did for me is install the 2010 IMS software update that irrevocably reduces battery consumption and inversely increases fuel consumption, last trip ever for me to Willis Honda, although we still take it to another Honda dealer in the area for the 0/20W oil changes
However, given Honda Canada's rotten attitude on this matter, I'd have hated to deal with the suckers if I'd refused the update and the battery failed, as much as I know it would be Honda's responsibility.
Have a friend and his brother in law who bought Honda Civic Hybrids within a month of me at Richmond Honda and they're certainly not impressed with Honda Canada either.
Good luck in selling your rebate voucher.
Jim
Probably would have gone along with it but in hindsight didn't address MPG but battery life, IMS engages less often after the patch, hence less wear and tear on the battery but also less MPG
if you want to turn the ima light off on the dash, go into the fuse box under the hood and remove the fuse for the ima system. it is a 20 amp fuse. also one under the dash.
i hope this info will help those that are having battery pack failure.
I already replaced one Honda with a VW Passat TDI, and love it. 44 mpg!!! And Power!!!
Glad you like your TDI, was looking at one too, did you get the sedan or wagon?