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I have an '04 and driven it 53K miles so far, and while your vehicle is probably alot different than mine, I too have seen some pretty wild swings.
Regarding the 03-05 models many people report the FCD to be 1-5MPG higher than actual calculated mileage.
My own car behaved this way:
The first 14 months I calculated mid-upper 50's MPG while the trip meter showed upper 50's and lower 60's (Usually 3-5 optimistic over the entire tank)
Last Spring I really got serious about high MPG and while my tanks calculated to mid-high 60's, the FCD always cut me short by about 5.
I've heard several people complain about the '06 FCD and wouldn't be surprised if a factory update does occur.
My '04 had a software recall but I have no idea what issue(s) it may have addressed.
Honda Press Release
Honda and Apple Offer iPod Music Link Accessory
TORRANCE September 7, 2005 --
American Honda announced today its new Honda Music Link iPod(R) adaptor in conjunction with Apple. This Genuine Honda accessory was developed to enable Honda drivers to utilize their iPod directly through the audio system in the all-new, redesigned, 2006 Honda Civic.
Honda Music Link enables consumers with iPods to select their music by artist, album, genre and play list through the Honda Civic's standard controls on the audio system head unit. In addition, this system is the first of its kind to offer synthesized audio voice feedback when searching through the iPod music library with the vehicle's audio system controls.
"We are very excited to partner with Apple and offer the Music Link accessory to our Honda consumers," said Stony Furutani, manager of Honda Accessory Marketing. "The new 2006 Civic features the newest in many technologies, which are further expanded through the addition of the Music Link iPod system.
The Honda Music Link adaptor provides outstanding sound quality while charging the iPod at the same time by a cable conveniently located in the glove compartment. The adapter will be available starting this December exclusively for purchase and installation at Honda dealers. Suggested retail pricing for the Honda Music Link will be approximately $250 plus dealer installation. Honda Music link is backed by a full Honda factory warranty. Consumers should check with Honda dealers for specific restrictions.
Apple's iPod units are available in the U.S. through the Apple Store(R) at www.apple.com and at selected retailers.
# # #
The Honda Civic is the only small car among the 13 the Institute has evaluated that meets the criteria for a Top Safety Pick. It's the only car in this size group that has earned a good overall rating in the Institute's side impact test.
Congrats to all you smarties who bought Civics !!!!
Here is a little chart which indicates the situations in which the HCH-II can cruise in EV mode. Seems a small window.
From this page:
http://hondanews.com/CatID2013?mid=2005083041801&mime=asc
Actually, that would be a "NOT."
Honda has never and will never claim the IMA system is a "full hybrid."
What they did do with the "cruising speed EV mode" modification is merely advance the technology of their IMA system and IMPROVE it.
It will get better and better each generation, as will the HSD system.
Allowing certain low-rpm EV cruising is a natural step for the IMA, but running in full hybrid mode would go counter to the "Integrated MOTOR ASSIST" system.
I agree that they will improve but Honda will have to bump up the horsepower of the electric motor by quite a bit before it will be able to power the car for more than just a few seconds at a time.
They might eventually have SOME cars with IMA and SOME cars with an as yet undeveloped full hybrid system of some kind.
That isn't dependent on larger electric motor. It REQUIRES a larger battery pack (or enough energy stored to supply power).
As it stands now, Civic Hybrid CAN run solely on electric power, as long as power demands aren't too high, and more importantly, there is enough charge in the battery pack. This applies to any hybrid in the market today.
Besides, the fact I provided was to bebunk the common understanding that suggested the Civic Hybrid NEVER uses electric motor by itself to move. When, and where... that is another discussion.
After all is said and done... results count more than how a given technology works, doesn't it?
------------- Prius -------------------- Civic
HP --- 67 hp @ 1200 rpm ------------ 20 hp @ 2000 rpm
Torque --- 295 ft-lbs. @ 0 rpm ----- 76 ft-lbs. @ 0 rpm
Output --- 50 KW -------------------- 15 KW
So the answer to your question, "How much HP do you think Prius has when it gets moving from complete stop solely from electric power?" is up to 67, assuming it's fully charged. In my opinion it's the 295 ft-lbs torque rating of the electic motor in the Prius that impresses most.
Besides, there is more to get rolling than quoting peak power and torque numbers. Or, would you say that specs quoting output at something like 400 rpm is useless? But, I don't want to make it another Prius and Civic Hybrid thread either. Just stick to the question that I asked you at the top of this response.
If you go back you'll see that this is not what I said. It can run in electric-only mode, but only very briefly and only at a steady, low speed. Nothing wrong with this, as the car still gets tremendous fuel economy.
http://www.greenhybrid.com/discuss/ev-electric-only-mode-finally-spotted-in-06-h- ch.4635.html
Taking some opinions expressed here to a complete conclusion, then a true "Full" hybrid should be able to switch in/out of full EV mode at all driving speeds without limitation.
Prius EV mode is limited up to about 45MPH.
EV mode is EV mode. Full hybrid is full hybrid. Which is better? I'd think the Prius is better for reasons already pressed.
Both vehicles average about the same MPG at the end of the tank anyway.
The scenario is like this, I travel at about 40 mph, and depending on traffic conditions on the freeway, if traffic slows, I coast to about 35 mph, then hit my accelerator slightly and maintain about 1100-1200 rpm. 35 mph is consistent with Honda's claim, just cannot do it from a stop.
Now the question is, how do I know I am in pure electric mode? Well at the point I hit the acceletor, the instantaneos mpg goes to max-100, and my electric asst gauge shows about 2-3 bars, if I hit gas too much, instan. gauge deflects back to about 45-50 mpg. If I keep it at about 1100-1200 rpm, I can buy myself about 30-50 seconds in pure electric, I am convinced I have achieved at the low speeds, but will admit prius can do this much better, including from a stop- we have a prius also. But this Civc H is a step in the right direction, and definitely has room for improvement on the IMA in the next release
1. how much room does the battery pack take up in the trunk ? The non-hybrid is modest in size, so I am a bit concerned that the battery will take too much space.
2. the battery in trunk prevents the use of fold down rear seats ? Yes ?
3. can anyone comment on the comfort of the HCH against the Prius ? I am on a list for a Prius, but after driving a 2005 as a loaner from the dealer, I found the seats to be quite hard on my butt and back. My test drive with the Civic was too short to determine if it is any better.
4. why have you chosen an HCH over the Prius ?
5. my commute consists of 31 miles highway and 8 miles local. Can anyone hazard a guess as to the mpg that I might achieve in real life ? I tend not to go over 68 mph on the highway ; I do not do jack rabbit starts and I coast to red lights whenever it is safe to do so. I currently get 29 mpg from my 1999 4 cylinder Camry.
6. I have read that the tax credit for a Prius may be as high as $3,100 starting in 2006. Any idea what the credit may be for an HCH ?
1. The trunk is adequate for a 5 passenger car into which most people rarely ever put 5 passengers. I have used the car for three long road trips of about 2500 miles for myself and my two kids, including one trip in which the trunk and the passenger seats were PACKED with Christmas presents and clothing and other gear, and we got 56.0 MPG for the first 447 miles of the trip, driving 65-75 on the hwy.
2. Yes, the battery prevents fold down split rear seat. As a driver for 28 years, I have used that feature one time in a car, and another time when I had my HCH and I needed the split seat, I was able to place my cargo across the front passenger seat angled into the rear seat and sticking about two feet out of the front passenger window. So you can work around this lack of feature.
3. Have not driven a Prius long enough to know the seat comfort, sorry.
4. I chose the HCH because I got mine used for $19,324 and the Priuses were either more expensive than that or unavailable.
5. I suppose you can get 42-48 MPG in a commute like that, and depending on the traffic and weather and depending on how much effort you want to put into "re-learning" how to drive more efficiently, you might get even higher than that.
6. I think I have read where the 2006 tax credit for the HCH will be in the range of $2000-$2100. More info here: http://www.aiada.org/article.asp?id=53966&cat=Dealers
Hope this helps you.......
1. would you buy the HCH again or would you consider the Prius. Why ?
2. For the first time, in 2004, I was subject to the Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT). The Federal AMT was designed years ago to ensure that millionaires paid at least some taxes. Over the years, since the threshold was never adjusted, middle class families with a decent income are now subject to the tax. This means that a lot of my itemized deductions / credits have no affect on what we will owe.
I have a call into my accountant to see whether or not I will benefit from the Energy Tax Credit of $2,100. I may not. If not, I then have to consider the cost benefit of paying $3,000 more for a hybrid.
2. I'm pretty sure your accountant will tell you that no matter WHAT your tax situation, the 2006 tax credit for Hybrids will come right off the bottom and will have the same effect on you as someone in the 37% tax bracket.
Good Luck !!
2. Yes, you cannot fold the rear seat back rest down
5. You driving style/commute suggests that you could get pretty close to EPA estimate, in the upper 40s. My basis for saying so is from autosite review of 2006 Civic Hybrid, averaging 47.1 mpg where the stretch included 2-lane highway, city roads and 80 mph stint down a freeway.
And if you liked the interior of the non-hybrid Civic, you should find the Civic Hybrid even better since it has additional touches to it.
Electric Motor comparison - specs from Edmunds:
------------- Prius -------------------- Civic
HP --- 67 hp 1200 rpm ------------ 20 hp 1380 rpm (2000?)
Torque --- 295 ft-lbs. 0 rpm ----- 76 ft-lbs. 0 rpm
Output --- 50 KW -------------------- 15 KW
It should be noted that the 295lbs-ft of Prius' MG2 gets to the wheels via a fixed 4:1 ratio.
The CIVIC's 76 lbs-ft by a crankshaft mounted MG goes to the wheels through a conventional gearbox (in 1st gear) with an overall ratio of around 12:1 thus magnifying its effective torque to 3 x 76 or 228lbs-ft in comparison !
Under aggressive driving :
The Prius will maintain its torque to 1200rpm @ 20 mph
Its engine will produce 90% of its rated power @40 mph
The CIVIC will maintain its torque to 1380rpm @ 8mph
Its engine will produce 100% of its rated power @ 40mph in 1st gear. Changing gear will drop the engine back down the power curve. That's why Honda introduced a CVT for its model to remain competitive.
For a CIVIC equipped with one, a mechanical CVT (which is now all Civics from MY '06 onwards) will attempt to maintain the engine at its peak revs as the vehicle continues to accelerate.
As will the Prius with its electrical CVT.
When you examine over the 0-40mph range, these two systems don't appear to be that far apart. The torque decay on the Honda IMA beyond 8mph is quickly overshadowed by the superior power of the Honda engine. What doesn't show up in these figures is the fact that the Prius is able to use battery power over the full speed range because of its 500v upconverter.
Something else that doesn't show up is how IMA assist drops off rapidly above 2500rpm. Even so, I expect the initial launch of the vehicle away from rest to be somewhat noticeable. I have driven the Prius but not the HCH at this time.
The fuel saving advantage I like is that both CVT's will allow their engines to slow down when peak torque is not required giving the driver automatic overdrive. I know I sometimes find myself in fourth when I should have been in fifth.
For this comparison post I garnered some information over on the Yahoo group "Prius Technical_Stuff" @ MSG 6327
T2
Moving beyond the technical data and gas mileage, I would be very interested in learning more about the true performance of these two vehicles. One major downside for me with either one would be how slow they seem to be, compared to other choices out there that cost the same or less. I do admire Honda for giving buyers 3 distinct choices, depending on one's priorities: regular Civics (both sedan and coupe), the Hybrid and the Si. To my eyes at least they ALL look better than the Prius. So far I haven't made up my own mind about what my priorities are. Heart says Si, mind says Hybrid and the practical side of me says the regular sedan.
I have about 5300 miles on my car and the EOLD shows 50%, at that rate the oil should be changed at about 9850 miles.
I'm interested in hearing from other 2006 HCH owners if their EOLD numbers are fairly close to mine, also has anyone gotten the symbol "B" on their Maintenance Minder and at what mileage.
OK, you've convinced me, I'll buy one, but I have a couple of questions...
1. Currently, what is everyone paying compared to MSRP? (I don't think I believe the Edmunds TMV this time)
2. Currently, how long a wait to pick one up?
3. Any other helpful price/availability tips?
Chris Bushman
North Hollywood, California
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
I am not from USA and in my country HCH is planned for sale at the beginning of next year. I wish to buy it but concerned about some exploitation issues. For example does anybody has problems with usage HCH in low temperature climate. I mean 20F and lower.
Thanks for feedback in advance.
Unfortunately, the laws of Physics do not care what kind of drivetrain you have.
Even moderate temp drops can negatively affect the hybrids MPG.
In part, with the Hondas (I own an HCH myself) it's because the IMA system is used less when the car's engine is below optimium operating temps, and that happens more in winter weather. Until prime op temps are reached, the gas engine is used more, the RPMS are staying higher, and the battery is being charged with the gas from the tank.
Your choices for helping maintain good MPG in the winter are:
buy an engine block heater
garage the car and use a space heater
Other than keepin the antifreeze warm and/or keeping the car stored in a warm area, nothing else will help. These will help a little bit.
But you need to come to accept the fact that your hybrid will suffer in coldish temps. I have been using a space heater for 25 minutes every morning, blowing 80 degree air under the front of my car from about 18 inches away. It helps a little bit - I do in fact lose LESS MPG every morning because of the heater usage.
Does the cost of the electricty on the high wattage heater save or cost you more money? Isn't it rare to hit freezing in Phoenix?
Yes, it's rare to hit freezing in Phoenix. The lowest temp ever recorded here is 17F.
But even temps in the 40s and 50s will cause the engine to take longer to heat up. My commute is less than 10 miles, all city streets.
tried alternatives to 0w-20w?
http://shop.store.yahoo.com/oilstore/peplforhy0wc.html
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
The report tended to confirm what i've long suspected, that the HCH delivers better gas mileage on the highway than the city while the Prius delivers better in the city than highway.
Hopefully this will spur Honda to improve the IMA on future Civics in order that it can be driven at low speeds in the EV. Honda's current claim in that respect while technically correct is misleading. Much has been written on the HCH EV mode on this site and the consensus is that the EV operation is too fleeting to be significant.