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Toyota Tundra vs. Chevrolet Silverado
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bumped by toyota?....you have to sell trucks to be a big 3 contender.......
http://www.800lemonlaw.com/lemonlist.html
Oh what a feeling!!
Found at http://www.autointell.com/asian_companies/toyota_motor/business/toyota-us-sales-2000-by-model.htm
Silverado Sales for 2000 = 642,119 (does not include 188,907 GMC Sierras)
http://www.autointell.com/nao_companies/general_motors/gmsales2.htm
Now wouldn't simple math tell you that if both companies had the EXACT same level of quality then you would have roughly 6.5 times more complaints on Silverados alone?
I could not find a site where I could find a total number of complaints for each vehicle but I did come across this while looking....
"Herb of Littleton NH writes (4/13/02):
I changed the oil in my Toyota Tundra after driving 4000 miles since a garage had changed it. The filter gasket from the old filter stuck to the engine block, causing an insufficient seal, allowing the oil to drain out. Twenty miles down the road, the engine skipped and I noticed zero oil pressure on the guage. I immediately stopped, but the motor was already toast.
My question is, how can Toyota make an aluminum engine without warning lights and buzzers for loss of oil? This is supposed to be Motor Trend's truck of the year and it doesn't warn you of low oil. Even my friend's old Ford Ranger does that."
That was found at http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/toyota_tundra.html
-Mark
1. http://www.gmpistonslap.cjb.net/
2. http://drive.to/agmlemon
3. http://www.gmclemon.com/
4. http://community.ourfriendsonline.com/gmclemontree
5. http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/longterm/articles/44039/page024.html
6. http://www.autosafety.org/autodefects/GM-What.htm
Tundra lemon websites:
1. http://www.800lemonlaw.com/lemonlist.html
Please note this website was not created by lemon Tundra owners. It is part of California lawyers Kimmel and Silverman's online advertisement campaign to attract customers.
Draw your own conclusions, gentlemen...
Do a search on the page for Tundra. You will see some pretty interesting items worthy of current owners complaining.
From: erkme73
Emailid:
Category: Products
ComplaintResolution: Complaint
CompanyName:
TopicName: Tundra vibrations
CompanyAddress:
CompanyCity:
CompanyState:
CompanyZipcode:
Country:
CompanyDivision:
CompanyDepartment:
Date: 10/20/00
Time: 6:50:29 PM
Comments
I have collected a database of Tundra owners who have chronic unsolved vibrations. If you have a shaking Tundra, please go to:
www.dilo.com/tundraform.htm
Fill in all the fields, and I'll be happy to share my database with you.
In the meantime, check out this topic:
http://www.tundrasolutions.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000614.html
It's an excellent site on the Tundra...
I have a 2000 sierra 4x4, 4.8 engine with 3.73, short bed. I traded in a 1989 f-150 short bed 5.0 4x4 with 100,000 miles on it. Needless to say, the ford did not vibrate, the engine did not run rough, The transmission, didn't make noises, the ride was positive not jumpy. If I wanted a truck to do all these things, I would have disconnected a sparkplug wire, blew out the shocks, and loosen a few lug nuts and i would have saved $24,000. I wish I had my 11 year old ford back.
Richard Leach
I own a 1999 Silverado 5.3l engine. I have notice since the engine has 5000 miles that the engine knocks. I am a mechanical engineer and have owned 350's previously and have never heard such a noise. The noise sounds like low end noise and after reading your posted article I am convinced that I hear the main bearings knock for 5-10 seconds daily. and I cringe For 2001, the main bearing tolerances of these engines have been tightened for quieter, cold-engine startup. What the hell are these guys doing I pay 25k for a vehicle and now they are changing the tolerance of the bearings. Isn't it common sense that using a tighter tolerance will enhance a components life. What if anything are they saying about the 1999 5300 engines? Is general motors doing anything? Any comments will be appreciated. Thanks
Brian
For your reading pleasure, here are the links:
http://agmlemon.freeservers.com/other_reader1.htm
http://agmlemon.freeservers.com/other_reader2.htm
It even comes with pictures!
-Mark
Toyota has sold 25 million Corollas, and they're practically bullet-proof. By your rationale, they should be generating more complaints than the GMCs.
SIMPLE MATH: Problem percentages are independent of the number of trucks sold...maybe too much for you to comprehend.
It amazes me how many times we re-hash the same [non-permissible content removed] over and over again. It would be nice to see some comparisons OTHER than lemon sites and counting the amount of TSB's.
Can we stick to the trucks themselves? Lets talk about horsepower, towing capacity, comfort, etc...
Just my .02 cents...
I guess either way, it's a compromise. The shorter wheel base isn't ideal for towing, but it is for city driving, which most people are doing 99% of the time anyway.
The production limit for the new Tundra is at 200K and Toyota will sell every single one of them. If Avis wants it on their fleet then they better be willing to pay over MSRP for it.
BTW, we are talking about the new Tundra here right?
Purple velour and rich Corinthian leather (made from real Corinthians!) :P
If not then you probably don't know what the interior looks like. You can't comment on the quality of an interior till you touch it because pictures alone are not enough. Also some interior color schemes look better then others so you need to see other interior colors.
http://www.tundrasolutions.com/photopost/showphoto.php/photo/39120/limit/recent
or this
http://autos.yahoo.com/chevrolet_tahoe_ltz_4wd-slideshow/?i=izp_dashboard#img
Now you can see why the "plasticy" remark cane out. All that gray plastic.
I agree on those big gawky dashboard controls too.
I like the new GM trucks...clean quality design. And although I have heard it claimed not to be retro, I see a big resemblance to the 70s and 80s trucks in the grille and light profiles....and as old trucks always have a following, that's not a bad thing.
I think the Titan is in big trouble. Nissan won't be making trucks very long if Toyota stays committed to the full size market.
http://www.chevrolet.com/silverado/photogallery/
As for the Tundra, its a compelling entry in the market but comments have already surfaced about the cheapness of the interior and its clear that it did not leapfrog the Silverado (or 3 year old F150) in interior design or quality. Toyota may have a tough time selling 200k pickups because they only sold 126k of the old one with heavy incentives. Assuming the new truck wont be discounted it will be hard to generate an additional 75k sales even if the new truck is far superior to the old. IN reality, its no so much that its superior, its just much bigger and more powerful. Instead of trying to stake out new territory like the Ridgeline (which flopped0 Toyota decided to attempt to out detroit the Big 3 by going big. Interesting strategy from a company praised as being enviromentally conscious.
I would also like to get the opinion of the GM detractors on hybrids. GM is fully committed to hybrids while Toyota remains the only foreign company to appear serious about hybrids. Honda is dumping the Accord hybrid and will offer only two models in the future. Nissan only has one and will sell it in 8 states. Hardly a hug commitment to saving fuel if you ask me. Since people generally believe that domestic automakers are committed to guzzling foreign oil while the Japanese love the earth I think the level of commitment to fuel saving technology is interesting.
The Seqouia is the same but has $2000 dealer incentive. Bit high.
Trucks are having a hard time due to gas prices and competition from the crossovers. No news there. It effects all makers. Until capacity is brought in line we will see continued price reduction. Toyota may be in trouble with a whole new plant of Tundras. They may not be able to use all the capacity and if so will have to do something like lower price/rebates which they can easily afford to do. Remember they started the planning for the plant and truck well before gas prices spiked a year ago. they are not all knowing.
1. Hybrids: Honda is going diesel, which is why they are de-emphasizing hybrids. And yes, they went "performance" instead of "frugality" with the Accord hybrid, which is why it didn't sell well. A miscalculation on their part, but the fact remains that they have the highest average fleet fuel economy of any of the majors, even WITH gas pigs like the Ridgeline.
On the flip side, I commend GM for their commitment to hybrids, but the actual DELIVERY remains scant at this point. I can't wait to see how much gas the GMT900 hybrids can save vs their gas-only counterparts, but the Vue doesn't save very much (maybe 10% real-world, vs the 4-cylinder gas) and their first effort, the Silverado, was really more of a mobile generator than an actual gas-saving technology.
2. Tundra's interior is purely a matter for speculation at this point, isn't it? Much the way the interior of the new Malibu is? We have seen pictures and come to conclusions, but except for the lucky few that could get to the Detroit show, no-one has seen or touched it yet. As for sales, Toyota hopes to RAMP UP to 200K sales a year, but is not expecting that right away. They are hoping for a 20% increase over the old model, or about 150K per year, in the first or second years. (CY2007 won't quite be a full year, as full availability won't happen until March).
You are correct that Toyota's strategy with the new Tundra is interesting for this company: it is the first time they have consciously made the decision to forego fuel economy in favor of size and power - all their market research showed that buyers in this segment have less regard for economy than they do for power and size. Officials of the company have stated as much in interviews.
3. Rebates: Toyota is currently offering cash rebates on models that are old, and in the case of the Tundra was never fully competitive even when it was new. HL is a 5-year-old model now, due to be replaced in about 4 months. Tundra is six years old, can you believe it? This is not a change in practice at Toyota - they have always done this at the end of the model cycle to clear out the old vehicles and make way for the new ones. The only deviation has been in the size of the rebates, and only in the case of the Tundra. $4000 is a very high rebate for Toyota. Once the Tundra turnover occurs, I am sure we will see similar rebate increases appear on the Sequoia, also a 5-year-old and also due for replacement late this year.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Those are the HVAC controls. And they are large so they can be operated with gloves on. Just like the large HVAC controls in the Silverado.
The biggest difference is that in the Tundra, the controls are a contrasting color (silver against a dark dash) vs. monotone in the Silverado.
Hmmmm, the Chevy LTZ has a center console. The Tundra Limited has a center console.
The Chevy Silverado work trunk has an open floor and column shifter.....aaaaand, the Tundra SR5 has.....an open floor and column shifter.
From another site's write up on the San Antonion plant producing the tundra.
The Toyota Truck
31 model configurations
3 trim levels: DX, SR5, Limited
3 bed lengths, in: 66.7, 78.7, 97.6
3 cab configurations: Reg, Double, CrewMax
2 drivetrain options: 4x2, 4x4
3 engine options: 4.0L V-6, 4.7L V-8, 5.7L V-8
2 transmissions: 5-speed automatic; 6-speed automatic
3 wheelbases, in: 126.8, 145.7, 164.6
4 interior finishes: Sand Beige, Graphite, Black, Red Rock
2 dash choices: Stick shift center console, or Column shift worksite dash
11 exterior colors: Super White, Silver Sky Metallic, Slate Metallic, Black, Radiant Red, Salsa Red Pearl, Desert Sand Mica, Pyrite Mica, Timberland Mica, Blue Streak, Metallic, Nautical Blue Metallic
The new Tundra will easily be the Truck of the Year next year. 381Hp and 401ft pounds of torque for the Toyota?
Toyota destroys the competition in everything it builds. I'd also take a Nissan before the Chevy. Way better looking and tows just as much.
My Choice for trucks would go like this.
1. Toyota Tundra
2. Nissan Titan
3. Ford F-150
4. Dodge Ram
5. Chevy\GM
At least the Ford and Dodge look decent. The Chevy looks like it could be from 1995 much less 2007. Truck of the year my butt. The interior of the Chevy is a complete joke with all that fake wood. It looks pathetic.
Looking at Toyota's operating income, they have incentives and other costs under control. Comparing Toyota to the domestics in this regard is a joke. Domestic incentives outpace Toyota's 3-to-1!
Dealer cash is just step one in the incentive ladder. The domestics are stuck at Defcon 4!
Toyota doesn't need to give away vehicles like the domestics do. So don't even bring it up.
You seem interested in bashing the current Tundra, even though it SURPASSES sales expectations? If the truck was really a problem, it wouldn't sell, regardless of the deal, or it would show just how weak the domestics are here. You can't have it both ways.
If Toyota can maintain consistent sales for a 5 year old truck, what will the newest, strongest truck on the market do?
DrFill
Personally, I think it is a bad PR move for the leader of the company to publicly ogle another makers vehicle. Just buy a copy next month, then tear it apart secretly. :confuse:
DrFill
The Silverado is much more traditional and even upscale in the interior look. The Tundra as with a lot of the new Toyota designs from California ( Calty Design in Newport Beach ) is edgier. Toyota is taking more risks in it's designs.
The interiors of the two vehicles are intentionally different. The Silverado has small well designed buttons that fit closely together such as you'd find in an upscale sedan. The Tundra has BIG buttons and knobs such as you'd find in an industrial setting. Both designs are intentional. Whether one or the other succeeds is up to the market. In fact both might succeed.
Alternate viewpoint: This first big work truck from Toyota is designed to fit into a work environment. Being refined inside is not so critical as being capable at work. At a goal of 'only' 200K units it's more important to be solid and basic shooting for the center of the market. At some time down the road, say in 5-10 years when it's fully accepted, then a Lexus look can be added. Too much refinement now might make it appear too 'foo-foo'.
Butt ugly
Too Big
Basic
Scratched
Dented
Dirty
Sounds like a truck to me.
I am in no way a GM detractor. I am critical of bad decisions that result in bad policies or bad vehicles. I think GM has jumped right up behind Toyota in the hybrid vehicle race..... providing ... providing the new 2-mode vehicles do what they say they can and that the vehicles remain well made in 3-7 years.
Ford is ailing and has very little money to do anything dramatic except survive for the next two years. R&D money for new technologies is scarce I believe.
Chrysler/Dodge and unfortunately Jeep I see as being on a death watch. Money is scarcer yet and the parent company is going in the diesel direction.
Honda is the only other real hybrid player and it's split between small hybrid vehicles and diesel midsized vehicles.
I wouldn't be surprised if Toyota and GM, with their established relationship, are coordinating their efforts in order to promote hybrids in NA.
Toyota Tundra Motor Trends Truck of the year 2008
Ford F150
Dodge Ram 1500
Chevy Silverado
Nissan Titan
GMC Sierra Denali
Cadillac Escalade EXT
Chevy Silverado
Toyota Tundra
Hummer H2 SUT
Chevy Avalanche
Nissan Titan
Lincoln Mark LT
Ford F-150
Dodge Ram 1500
Honda Ridgeline
-Rocky
This is Our Country, This is Our Truck
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGvVs5oSVRk
:shades:
Rocky
Rocky