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Comments
I just feel that b/c one person with such emotional involvement can't separate fact from opinion we shouldn't punish those who can.
Michael
Andy
Talking about a meltdown that never happened doesn't help anyone. Yes, he had to add coolant frequently, and had his coolant analyzed by a lab, revealing a coolant leak. But his Outback never broke down. There was no meltdown. Why lie about that? He's mentioned spending $2500, on what? Why be so vague?
Read the comments now and you'd find it hard to believe they made a conscious decision to actually buy a Subaru they now say they detest. They must have liked it, else they would not have spent their hard earned money on it.
My point is, these discussions are to share information that can be helpful to someone, and should be truthful and complete. Along comes someone that is not using their real name, tossing out insults and criticisms and adding exactly nothing to the discussion.
I come here to help out, offer advice, opinions, share experience. I don't even have a problem! He's here only to vent and insult people.
Sorry, it just makes me sick.
-juice
PS I should know from experience to ignore trolls, shame on me.
And yes, innoring posts like this is the best policy. Just let me know if there's a problem anywhere on the Boards and I will review it promptly.
thank you
Mr Shiftright
Board Host
However I am also concerned that if I do not have the re programming done it would be an excuse in the future to give me warranty hassles.
Cheers Pat.
FWIW - I am aware of this customer and as I stated before, there is more to the story. I just don't think it is right to post specific customer information on these boards. As a general statement - -
When we become aware of a customer concerns, we evaluate the validity of the concern. We put a lot of resources into that, including technical help, etc. Usually, the concern can be fixed promptly. Sometimes, it is not a situation that can be addressed prompty but does not impare the vehicle - that dreaded "normal operating characteristic". These take more time, but are usually addressed in the future with some type of service campaign (our expense no matter how old the vehicle). Sometimes the customer has other issues that we cannot confirm or fix. The customer always has the right to file for Lemon Law if they do not like our answer, but most Lemon Law arbitration boards will not accept a case without merit.
People will post their feelings whether they are good or bad. Most of ours are good. We just have to rely on the individuals experience with us to help other customer's judge on the validity of continued commments. It is better than arguing on the boards.
I hope you all are well, and I appreciate all of your kind wishes. I'm reading them, even if I can't respond to them right now. I should be back in a few weeks.
Patti
Thanks!
Patti
Since there have been so many posts in here about this problem in lots of Subie models, and since my own OBS did this its whole life, and got worse as the clutch aged, I am wondering (idly and for no good purpose, I admit!) if perhaps Subie should not make their clutches stronger? Particularly since they are now selling high-power models like WRX in this market? In five years and almost 120K miles, this was the only thing I was ever less than thrilled about on mine. I used to think it was due to the cable operation as opposed to hydraulic design, but now I wonder if it is or not.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Tires are still looking good other than a noticeable uneven wear pattern on the drivers side. Slightly more wear on the inside edge of the tread. I rotate every 3k with oil change so not sure if it is front or rear alignment (or both).
About to embark (next month) on another road trip. This time down to the panhandle of Florida to visit the inlaws. That should be around 6k or so making it about 19k in road trip miles this year. Love this car for road trips.
bit
Would you like to see them??
On the last day of our vacation our car had to be towed to a dealer because it overheated and the overflow tank was full of sludge, would you like to see the towing receipt and the notations the servicing dealer made regarding the condition of the tank.
SOA refused to pay for the rental car bill, would you like to see the copy marked paid by us?
Subaru said they would not fix the car in the letter they sent us, would you like to read it for yourself??
Or perhaps you would like to see a copy of all the service invoices???
Doubt we owned many new Subaru's, would be glad to show you a copy of the purchase contracts, pretty sure I have all of them.....
Good grief!
The H6 engine has a serious problem, many owners are reporting coolant loss and Subaru has done and will do nothing.
Just where is the VDC section again??
Bob
get an alignment before you head to florida.
-Colin
Ken
Cheers, Tom
Prior to owning a Subaru I was a tremendous fan - openly recommending the vehicles. Since purchasing a Legacy GT in 2000, I have drastically changed my stance. I can now say without reservation I will never own another.
When his earlier posts offered a challenge to the quality of Subaru, many board members responded to robert116 in a hostile fashion, doubting his credibility and even his existence. In all fairness, these agressive replies should also have been deleted.
These discussions should be fair and open. This I say not to anger or upset, but rather to challenge.
Regarding interesting by nippononly...
This is a problem. My 2000 Legacy GT (33k) is subject to this condition. Patti, what is the opinion of SOA concerning this?
Also, this is a Subaru section on the board. Subaru does have a good reputation with vehicles in general. Of course there are lemons. I go onto the Camry board and hear about them complaining about a variety of things, including engine failure!
He had a major car problem, and got rid of it. I agree it is a major hassel, but we do not know the whole story. Only his side of the story. Second, he came on the board to bash Subarus in general, and say that a Passat (one of its competitors) was a superior vehicle. There are many people on this board that have Outbacks that swear by them! How do you think this makes them feel? I know I would be pissed if someone came on a board where my car is the main topic to say that I own a piece of crap! That is why the hostility.
Robert has never shown any objectivity at all, claims that all H6 engines are defective, claims conspiracy from SOA, somehow spent $2500 on a car in warranty, has posted all over the place to bash Subaru, SOA, the H6 engine. Those of us that regularly follows these threads can easily discount his comments; however, many people just come on these boards to get quick input on car models. I think it is unfair for them to be subject to his crusade, and I am tired of it.
I have no idea of the entire story, but he needs to get over it and move on, and so do we.
Mike
Patti: we miss you every day and hope your problems get resolved soon! I'd rather have a shuddering clutch than a creaky neck. Good luck.
Steve
FWIW, Subaru made some changes for the 2003 WRX, because lots of kids were doing clutch drops repeatedly. From an unknown source:
"The Clutch Master Cylinder has a Control Valve Assembly ... Its a Restrictor valve..so Basically you can only engage the clutch at a certain pressure...no more 6000 RPM clutch drops...Becuase its not going to matter...The Control Valve only engages at a certain pressure regardless of what you do...."
Pretty smart if you ask me - that prevents all the clutch drops from frying the clutch, especially when the cars are modified. The kids have to go to the track to measure how much the mods helped!
Mike: thank you for offering constructive, useful feedback about your problem to this forum. Your behavior is exemplary, and I bet the results will eventually help members of Edmunds.com directly or indirectly. How refreshing.
That is how this forum should operate, in my humble opinion.
-juice
I'm with Colin, get an alignment. I'd even consider new tires at this point. Tires are cheap, and the uneven wear may throw your Subie off even if the alignment is good, depending upon how bad.
30k for tires is a decent life anyway. I'm sure they're not the same as new.
Dave: $140 is sweet. So what are you gonna do with the $$$ you saved? You just missed my b-day. ;-)
-juice
Thanks
S.Donadio@snet.com
Did you get a Subaru dealer to document the problems when you noticed them? If yes, then you should be okay even if you are past the warranty cut-off.
The plastic bag doesn't sound right. There's a cover on the bottom part of the engine so it would be difficult to have something like a bag get stuck in the bay.
Ken
For what it is worth I have had dealings with both Patti and SOA and found them to be responsive and supportive. And the same goes for the dealer where I bought my Soob. Patti I miss you too.
bit
Old subject but any comments on replacements for the 205/55 RE92s? I do have a full size spare that's a new 92 so I would like to keep them in a close circumference just in case.
bit
Based on the consistency and lack of fix however, when I consider a new one, I will have to think hard about a manual tranny, and consult with a number of mechanics about its actual frequency.
But to be honest the concern of Patti and her ability to solve problems certainly says the company cares.
So as host here I'll certainly give anyone their best shot, but then stand back and allow others to offer help and suggestions, or listen for similar problems and possible solutions, or follow links posted for possible other solutions or ask appropriate questions. Are you here to help, to learn, or to just shout?
Heaping your woe on people who are not responsible for your car breaking down is simply unproductive and will come to no good.
Lots of people have received very good assistance and information once they quieted down and started looking for a remedy. Not saying it's always easy to find!
Can someone present a balanced and calm view of this "coolant issue"? Is there a TBS on this, and which models are affected?
Thank you for putting it so eloquently.
Subaru does not have a TSB (yet?). Mike's little experiment and some others make me theorize that the coolant's overflow tank is just too small for the H6's temperature variations. It settles just below the "Add" mark for at least a couple of folks. Some don't ever have to add coolant, perhaps those in less extreme climates?
The coolant issue is exclusive to the H6. The H4s have had front seals fail at relatively high miles (80-90k), so the standard recommendation is to change them when you do the timing belt, since the labor is paid for, it'll cost you nothing. Even then most cases are the Phase I, basically the 1997-1999 2.5l DOHC engines (not the newer SOHC).
Even knowing all this, I'd buy a car with the H6 in a second. In fact, we just bought a 2nd H4 in May. If they put the H6 in the Baja, I'd consider that as my next ride.
-juice
We are all thinking of you and miss you.
Take Care,
Ron
On my car I still had the ORIGINAL BRAKES and the ORIGINAL CLUTCH at 115K+. In my experience that is pretty rare - Subie brakes in general seem to be awesome, except for the people posting here about rotor warping.
My ignorance of clutches led me to post that comment - perhaps it is not the strength of the clutch, but some other factor that affects how much it chatters? It did do it a little even when brand new - nothing I could not live with.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
In fact, I saw a left over 2002 VDC for $25.5k, had my wife still been shopping it would be ours, no question.
I just rotated my tires, and the brake pads look like they'll last forever, too. The rotors are nice and smooth, I haven't ever owned a car that didn't create at least some grooves.
The chatter happens more often when it's cold and damp, some say it's the pressure plate isn't as rigid as it could be. What I find puzzling is that even then they seem to last forever. Doesn't make sense to me. Oh well.
-juice
225/50 have the same circumference exactly. Those would work. Or stock size.
-juice
It's been fine ever since, although I wish they would have mixed up my engine with a 2.5H4 TT. ;-)
-Brian
-juice
Just check the level every time you fill up the gas (you should check your oil anyway), to make sure it doesn't get any lower.
-juice
Probably the total amount of posters that have mentioned this has been probably 10 - 15 in the last 6 months.
Only Robert and one other guy seemed to have problems that actually extended into the actual coolant system. All the rest seem to have coolant that drops in the coolant tank and then stabilizes somewhere. Mine is stable (for several months) at about an inch over the low mark. At least one person has had it stabilize below the low mark.
Only about 1 pint of fluid will take it from the low line to the high mark. Several of us have the theory that the coolant tank is just not sized right for the H6, and this is just natural variation.
I have a case file going with SOA (started by our Patti). The SOA field rep does not want me to top up and just see if it ever drops and to where. I really want to top it off and see if it goes back to the same place, but I won't. I tried it on my WRX and it does drop to about an inch below the high mark and stabilizes.
I keep hoping that a couple of experimenters out there will top theirs off and see if it stabilizes at the same point. I am also curious as to the mechanism for the overflow; I see no evidence that there has ever been any overflow from the top.
I am sure this was more than you ever wanted to know about this issue, but you asked.
Mike
A good alignment shop will look at tire wear and make small adjustments (within spec) accordingly. I'd get the alignment while you still have your old tires or after the new ones have some information (ie. wear) on them.
Ken
Cheers Pat.
I average 10 to 15 years on a car. That I can get into a car no matter what the weather or conditions and expect to get where I am going and to get there in comfort most of the time is amazing.
I may be naive but I think most car manufacturers do a darn good job.
Of course, people's "standards" as to what constitutes a "good car" will differ. I have had the experience now and then of being loaned a "good car that never gives any trouble" and immediately noticing 12 things wrong with it that the owner has blissfully ignored because they don't hassle him.
So you have to take all anecdotal evidence, (including MINE) with a grain.
The H6 coolant problem sounds a lot like an air bleed issue.
Mike
The resevoir is filled but not a squirt... well, dribble sometimes.
-Dave
edit: Oh, it's Mom's OBS
IdahoDoug
This often requires a rather elaborate bleeding procedure. I've even seen people drill and tap in bleed screws to make this easier to do.
If you think about it, there's only 3 ways the coolant level can drop.
1. A leak externally
2. A leak internally
3. A false reading due to air in the system.
- I don't think it is air pockets, because I can continuously top off the coolant and it will stabilize back at a lower level. I can't perceive a growing air pocket.
- I don't think there is a high pressure leak since the level stabilizes. I have never seen sporadic leaks; either leaks or doesn't leak.
- This leaves the overflow tank, but I have never seen any evidence of overflow from the top and I can't see any other mechanism for the coolant to leave.
- New clue: both times that my coolant dropped to the add mark, I had travelled to a higher altitude. Would that cause the coolant to stabilize at a lower level?
Seriously, I don't think this is a serious problem, but the engineer in me really wants to understand the physics.
Mike
Also, it might have frozen since we've had some chilly nights.
I use this clear stuff by Prestone called Windshield Melt (or something like that). I pour about half the bottle into a tank of the "blue stuff".
-Dennis