Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to learn more!
Options
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
For starters, they're UGLY! I can't explain why they are ugly, but why is Carmen Electra better looking than Rosie? The Scion is the more hideous of the two in my opinion. The Element at least sort of looks like a CRV with a bad hair day, but the xB, well just look at it, need I say more?
Second, power anyone? 105 horses? 1.5 liters? I don't care if I can break windows with the 1,300 watts of audio power if I can't run away for the cops who want to arrest me for violating a noise ordnance (just kidding, my Jeep has a 2 speaker audio system that starts to crackle if turned up anywhere close to loud, but I purchase cars for different reasons than audio systems). Honestly though, having what I think must be the least powerful car available in the US is downright dangerous. Why? Try merging from an off ramp in front of a semi traveling at 80 miles per hour with a Scion. I speak in the second person tense because I don't want to be anywhere close when someone attempts this. I have better things to do than spend an afternoon testifying in court after the car is flattened. 105 hp - there are 600cc motorcycles that have more power than that. Next, mass anyone? 2500 lbs? What? I can't imagine what would happen if that collided with a 6,000 lbs. 3/4 ton truck.
Finally, if anyone has read my posts, I almost always ask or imply why someone should buy this car? Why should a 17 year old want an under powered, ugly car made by the same company that makes the oh so exciting Avalon and Camry? About the only reason I could find was to stand in one place and blast the stereo. I don't think the engine could handle driving, AC, and having the stereo turned on. No kidding, I've seen old Honda Civics with comprable power nearly die with the AC on. I cannot speak for every 16 or 17 year old out there, but from my experience, $17,000 of metal and rubber that sits in one place is useless.
All things considered, I'd rather buy a used Mustang GT with a Mach 460 sound system. In day to day usage, it sounds just as good, and what do you know, it has nearly three times the power.
If I am right, and I probably am judging from my experience with cars and being a teenager myself, who is going to buy this car? First, parents who want to seem "hip" to their kids. The parents and kids have to both be completely oblivious to anything automotive and buy into the greasy Toyota dealer saying, "Oh, this car is the latest 'rage', everybody in California is driving one..." The other demographic that possibly could buy this car are people who want to be, for reason or another, "with the times". This could be an older person who wants to revitalize their youth (think same demographic who were on the waiting list for VW Beetles) or teenagers who are outcasts and want to improve their status in the high school hierarchy.
Are these two groups enough to keep Scion going? Maybe, but I think they will eventually realize how awful this car is and the resale value will tumble after the first year. Toyota will have to be forced to improve the engine (much like Chrysler is doing with the PT) or lower the MSRP.
In either case, I'm not trading in my Jeep anytime soon, even if I do have to listen to my crackling speakers.
J.
'97 Jeep XJ 4.0L
-Andrew L
I really don't see Gen Y buying used Cherokees and Mustangs. How can you afford to gas 'em up at $2 a gallon?
-juice
As for gas, considering this vehicle probably uses premium gas when compared to a Mustang that gets 17-18 mpg, it is not that big of a difference. I'm an exception to the rule by doing about 25k-30k miles per year, but most teenagers drive closer to 8k-10k. When you work it out, the difference in gas price is relatively small per year.
Regarding Gen Y buying big cars, parents are buying bigger and bigger cars to protect their children in the event of an accident, and rightfully so. Crash tests can say whatever they want because they are testing against a wall where nearly 100% of the energy in the accident is returned back to the vehicle. In real life, mass wins. If I had a choice of what vehicle to be inside during an accident, this would rank right between a Ford Pinto and a Geo Metro.
Maybe I'm wrong and maybe there will be plenty of young excited buyers waiting to buy the boxiest car on the block. All I know is that I will not be among their masses.
The Scion is based on the Echo, and uses the Echo engine. That costs a lot less then re-engineering the chassis to handle a bigger block. New engine probably means new tranny, bigger engine mounts, beefier suspension, and pretty soon you end up with a RAV4. :-)
I think they'll address power in other ways, they already offer a 10hp upgrade for 118hp fully under warranty.
-juice
I see your point about the cost of re-engineering the Echo platform. But I still don't understand how smaller engine with less power has worse fuel economy, considering how light xB is.
I was thinking about xB as a commuter but I guess I would be better off getting an used Corolla or Civic. They are cheaper, bigger, roomier, has probably better reliability and better gas mileage!
Fuel economy isn't bad by any means, IMO. Maybe it could be better with the 1.8l but again that would cost a lot more most likely.
Civic and Corolla are sedans, no way no how could they fit even half of what you could in an xB with the seats folded.
But I bet they'll be more refined, quieter riding, handle better, i.e. have other advantages.
-juice
-juice
Anyway, I just found out about Scion a week ago and I love the xB. I remember seeing the bbX concept and thinking, "Oh that's cool, but they won't even sell it in Japan, let alone here,". I guess I was wrong on both parts. Since I live in north L.A., I've decided to get one as soon at they become available (June 9?). There's a ton of Toyota dealers around here and all have made plans to sell Scions so there should be no problem.
I've been wanting to trade my Altima of 2 years in for something new, and up until now I've wanted a VW. I've always loved VW's, and my wife has a '01 Beetle, though I've wanted a GTi myself. Problem is, getting a GTi is a $21k+ affair and at this point I just couldn't afford the payments. However, seeing this Scion xB available with such a unique style and options at such a low overhead is perfect,
Obviously the xB is very different from a GTi in terms of performance and cost, however there are a lot of things I like about it. I love the box look, it's a radical departure from the streamlining of the early 90's on. I've always liked small, boxy cars with lots of straight lines and 90 degree angles, especially the Jeep Wrangler and A1 Volkswagens. However, while this may translate into a lower top speed, it really isn't going to affect daily driving (especially city driving).
At the moment, the only real competitor for the xB is the aformentioned Suzuki Aerio (Nissan may decide to sell it's Japanese Cube here in the states as a more direct competitor to the xB, but who knows). I like the Aerio a lot, especially since it has more power than any other four-cylinder vehicle Suzuki has put out, and is available in four-wheel drive. Only problem is you can only get 4wd with an automatic, and of course the Aerio is about $1,000 more in base model form, doesn't get quite as good gas mileage and has neither the amount of factory-installed options nor will it ever have the amount of aftermarket accessories.
Still, the xB and Aerio are very close models. I think the xB has won me over with its being unique and having a lot of options. I don't think the power issue is going to be a big one, at least with the air intake and a 5-speed. 118 hp versus 2,450 pounds is only about 20.6 pounds per horsepower. That's only 1 lb/hp more than my 150hp Altima, and it's 4.65 lb/hp LESS than my wife's 115hp Beetle.
So, once I actually try one I'll make my final decision, but for now I'm pretty set on getting one ASAP. I'll have to keep everyone else updated.
I'm getting more excited every day...
-juice
-Andrew L
-juice
But that does not mean that these vehicles will not sell well. They are actually great cars, except for their outer shells. It's just that the people buying them won't be the Gen-X or Gen-Y kids. It'll be their parents.
I have seen 3 Elements so far around where I live and all of them have been driven by middle-age adults.
(When I was younger, all I wanted was a mid-size sedan with a V-6 priced around $15-16K. I didn't want or need luxuries like power everything. All I wanted was a mid-size car like an Accord with a V-6, stick shift, A/C and that's about it. I could roll up my own damn windows, lock my own locks, and control my own cruising speed. Just a simple, practical and fast car.)
-juice
It'll be interesting to see if Scion prices hold at the published levels. The dealers have to commit to not marking them up, but there are going to be loads of dealerships, so competition should occur.
BTW - I'm very happy with my 5sp Aerio SX - paid $13470 w/ $0 down, 0% 60mos financing. Excellent value and a lot of fun to drive around town.
-juice
-juice
The deal killer for me is the lack of side airbags. Yeah, I know we've all done without side airbags for all these years, but I'd like side airbags for a car that I plan to keep for several years. Also I'm OK with xB styling, but have some concern as to whether it could acquire Aztek status with the general public.
The xB 108-118 hp engine looks really good considering an 89 civic 1.5 is rated at 92 hp, ie anything would be an improvement. Also like the 185/60-15 tires, not to outrageous, but not to small. The suspension sounds like it set on the firm side which is good since I have a tendency to carry really heavy loads. The only good thing about the civic's 175/70-13 tires is there really cheap$$$. Speaking of $$$, it looks like with a few accessories, ect., the price will be in the $14k-$15k range which seems pretty competitive when you consider it comes with A/C, ABS/traction/skid control, mp3 radio, power windows/locks, ect.
It's like implying that people who are less affluent should not drive a safer car. Is ABS technology that expensive to maufacture given that the technology has been around for a long time?
I hope someday cars will be made to equip with all the same level of safty features regardless of the trim level, just like seat belts.
While I was in the dealership, I overheard another customer telling his wife that these tiny cars (xA and xB) were "deathtraps". I disagree with that assessment but the lack of side airbags on the xB really sucks. A poor marketing decision IMO.
Loaded up Elements break $20k and most buyers seem to be older folks.
-juice
Did you get a chance to examine the interior material quality? If so, how would you rate it?
Go down to where it says "The Future"
"The Scion xA and xB will go on sale mid-
June exclusively in California. In February 2004, the market will expand to cover the south, southeast and east coast. A few short months later, Scion will simultaneously complete the national rollout and launch the third Scion vehicle, which will be stylish, sleek and sporty. This staggered rollout allows sufficient time for ramp-up of production and further refinement of Scion's new distribution and sales processes."
So unless your willing to wait until February 2004 (a few months longer if in Midwest, ie Indiana, Illinois, Iowa, Nebraska, etc.), then you have to go to California to buy it.
There might be complications registering and insuring in states other than California because they haven't heard of a "Scion" yet.
I live in Connecticut, so it's Feb 2004 for me too.
-juice
-juice
-juice
I also tested a matrix(I don't fit into it: my head rubs on the ceiling) and an element(too big for my garage, and the rear doors too weird).
I am very happy with it - the car is perfect for my small family.
What kind of mileage are you getting in just city driving?
-juice