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Saab 9-2X
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You can get heated seats in a WRX sedan, moonroof too, but not wagon. In Canada they get those, though.
The same dealer, fitzmall, sells both. WRX range from $20,831 (base wagon) to $24,810 for a loaded up sedan with the premium package.
Saab 9-2x Aeros at the same dealership go for $25,268 to $28,130.
So we're talking about $3-4 grand or so.
-juice
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I think the 9-2x is the best looking car on the Impreza chassis, but it that way. The 1998-2002 Impreza RS looked even better though. After that it went down hill.
And I like the Legacy a lot.
-juice
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> it's even more than that. $31k sticker, maybe you
> can get them down to $27k if you're really good.
> But WRX wagons can be had for $21k and even loaded
> up it's hard to break $24k street price.
I test drove a 92X and a WRX on the same day. Identical drives and got near identical quotes from the two dealers. Could probably have beat the Subaru guy down more, but the 92X had the options I wanted (granted, that put the price up again).
Does anyone have any info on insurance for a WRX ? For my 92X the premium went DOWN from my 7 year old Integra (base engine).
After 4 years I expect to sell the 92X for the same price as an '05 WRX, plus a bit extra for the leather. Taking into account the free maintainance, possible insurance difference and the gamble that anything breaking in the 4th year is still under warrantee, the actual cost to own a 92X vs. a WRX is negligable.
For the price of a Starbuck's each day I get to sit in my heated leather seats in what I think is a nicer looking car.
The Legacy was too big for me and my garage, so was off the list from the start.
Nice back-handed insult! I'm further impressed that you were able to glean that much personal information from a couple of posts. I'm certain that the Edmunds hosts appreciate someone representing Edmunds Forums taking a cheap shot at forum users and fellow car enthusiasts. You really make me want to learn more about Subarus!
In any event, in response I can say that I am very familiar with the Legacy and all its various forms, including Outback, GT, sedans, wagons, etc. I have never driven one, no, but I have been a passenger in a Legacy Outback plenty of times and I have seen many a GT on the road and at the dealership just recently.
I should give a restatement of my previous assertation that Subarus are butt-ugly: Subarus are all butt-ugly, with the exception that the Legacy can vary from drop-dead boring to butt-ugly, depending on the model.
Aside to another comment from ateixeira directed to me: I know that all Subarus look DIFFERENT! What has that to do with the fact (from my point of view and opinion) that they all (mostly) look ugly? They can be different AND ugly. I'm just stating my perception and one shared by many people; I'm not asking you to agree with me.
You are clearly predisposed against the 9-2X, and sticker price aside, you refuse to acknowledge that you can get either the Subaru or the Saab versions at fairly similar pricing if you are persistent enough--along with a better warranty, much better lines, and nicer features. And now, I clearly stated that I am NOT by any means a "Saab fan." In fact, I think they are generally less reliable than Subarus and I already said that my preference is for American cars. The 9-2X is for my wife; I drive a Suburban Z71.
Don't be so judgmental and insulting and people may even pay attention to what you say.
Most people hate some, love others.
I'm not against the 9-2x, haven't been from the get-go. I took a minority position among the Subaru crowd, that the 9-2x could help them spread costs a bit and get more volume for the Gunma factory in Japan. Plus I've always said it looked better (read up in this very thread).
I think it's worth a grand more, sure, but not $3-4 grand. Even if you want leather, I'd go aftermarket and get Katskins for $900 or so. Heated leather for $1200.
They're on pace to sell just 2000 per year, so apparently most consumers agree about the price difference being a bit too much.
-juice
Yes, I'm predisposed against the the 9-2x, as it's a lousy value, as compared to the '05 Legacy GT. You are one of the very few who seems to disagree, because the 9-2x is selling way below Saab expectations.
I'm also predisposed against Saabs in general as the only one I've ever owned ('86 9000 turbo bought new) was perhaps the worst, most unreliable car I've ever owned. I unloaded it as soon as the warranty was up.
BTW, I'm not on the Edmunds payroll either. I was asked to be a Subaru Crew Chief by a member of the Edmunds.com Subaru community a few years ago. So there are some people here who listen to me.
Finally, you're more than welcome to disagree with me, but it's you, not me, who's throwing out the insults. I'm merely pointing out some rather obvious holes that the 9-2x has in terms of value. I see it as nothing more than a designer-label WRX, and as with most designer-label products, a poor value.
Bob
Nice back-handed insult! I'm further impressed that you were able to glean that much personal information from a couple of posts. I'm certain that the Edmunds hosts appreciate someone representing Edmunds Forums taking a cheap shot at forum users and fellow car enthusiasts. You really make me want to learn more about Subarus!
Bob (rsholland) has been a member of these forums for a very long time, and he knows the rules here very well. There is nothing about his statement that is a personal insult or attack. He stated that your comments appear to be from someone who has not seen or driven the LegGT - he did not say anything about you. There is no reason to argue about things that don't exist. If you have a problem with a member, contact the host of the board you're in - we're located at the top of the page in every discussion.
kcram
Host - Wagons
At this point, I'd say you guys are at the "agree to disagree" stage, and we'll just move forward from here. Sound good?
kcram
Host - Wagons
> be sorely disappointed... Figure on getting about > 40% of MSRP after 4 years..
Hmmm, no-one is buying this car because they know it's a jumped up Subaru which they can buy cheaper down the road.
But when I come to sell it everyone will think it's a Saab and it'll be worth less than a Subaru.
40% of MSRP for the Saab actually works out the same as 50% of MSRP for the Subaru, so I guess we're both right !
> from $20,831 (base wagon) to $24,810 for a loaded
> up sedan with the premium package.
>
> Saab 9-2x Aeros at the same dealership go for
> $25,268 to $28,130.
>
> So we're talking about $3-4 grand or so.
Base price of my Aero was $23.5k, so that's $2.7k over the WRX's $20.8k. Take off $500 for included services and we get $2.2k. Over 4 years that works out as $10/week; that's less than the weekly cost of insurance or gas.
It wouldn't take much to go wrong in the 4th year (eg. a new window motor = $750) to narrow the gap even further.
The powertrain warranty on the WRX is better (which I presume covers the turbo & diffs), so if I intended to keep the car for less than 3 or much more than 4 years, the pendulum might have swung back in favor of the WRX.
Special deals for employees is a whole other ball park. If you qualify that can certainly change the game significantly.
-juice
I mean, after all.. that only adds up to $10/week until I retire.. hardly worth it.. ;-)
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V50 - 1928
9-2x - 1350
Not that far off. I believe the V50 went on sale before the 9-2x, not sure though. The market for small wagons must be small itself.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
9-2x on sale in June with 48 sold. Well, 1 in May
V50 on sale in July with sales of 105, with sales of 263 before that - not listed in June sales though.
All of the sales data is form Automotive News.
So, basically sales began around the same time period for both.
I think Saab will go a lot farther next time, including the Subaru B9X/Saab 9-6x.
-juice
I think if V50 sales are equivalent to the 9-2X, then that shows the Volvo is a much more popular car..
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-juice
I've done that, and my experience is that the turbo Legacy GT would be the winner. Even though you may be able to get the 9-2x for a little less than the Legacy GT, which car would you rather live with over the course of 3 – 5 years? I choose the Legacy, you may disagree.
If you your are considering an automatic, the Legacy becomes a no-brainer, as it has a 5-speed automatic with a manual-shift mode. The WRX and 9-2x only offer a 4-speed automatic, which doesn't have a manual-shift mode. Also, I would say thay that 90% of WRXs are sold with the manual tranny, simply because the the 2.0 turbo and the 4-speed automatic are not a great match, due to the WRX's (and 9-2 x Aero's) narrower powerband, which really doesn't give good power below 3000 rpm.
Bob
> including the Subaru B9X/Saab 9-6x.
I think the 9-2X will be a miserable failure (and I own one) because Saab didn't do enough to differentiate it from the WRX. If it came standard with the premium package or they had shoe-horned a navigation system into the console, then direct comparisons would be less possible.
They claim they only had 18 months development, but some companies develop new cars from scratch in only double that time. In 18 months they couldn't even design a new key fob, and just stamped "Saab" on the old bulky Subaru standard issue one.
When the WRX went on sale, Subaru dealers were adding $3k mark ups. When the 9-2X went on sale, Saab dealers were giving $3k incentives. Someone at Saab marketing somewhere got something totally wrong.
Making several calls to SaabUSA, I reached the Customer Service Dept. I was looking for some sort of compensation; whether it be in the form of rental car reimbursement, or the form of a loaner car, I felt I deserved something for their incompetence. After their "thorough" investigation, I got a call from said SaabUSA to tell me that repairs were going as usual, and determined that I would receive no compensation. 46 DAYS PEOPLE!!!
Did I mention the airbag did not deploy. I was going 20mph when I t-boned a Bronco II, which was going at least 45mph and sent it flipping 3 times. NO AIRBAG DEPLOYMENT! Didn't it win some sort of impact test award? I slammed my head on the steering wheel... nothing too major for myself... Thank GOD! Have I heard anything from Saab in response to the airbag??? Not a peep!
The constant excuse I get from Saab is, "It's a new car... you'll get that with upscale cars". Well hears an idea Saab... treat your customers like they are upscale buyers. I wouldn't ever buy another Saab for the simple fact of the customer service I have received. I recommend unless you all are guaranteed to never have to deal w/ Saab the Company, to look elsewhere when buying a car.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the 9-2x has side airbags. If it did, those airbags should have deployed.
Bob
BTW, I checked the Saab 9-2 brochure, and it does indeed have side airbags; although in your case, they probably wouldn't have gone off.
Bob
Unfortunately Saab probably see it as the insurance company's job to supply the loaner. In this situation they're just another body shop.
I would imagine that Fuji Heavy Industries commits production timeframes for the 92x off of the impreza line, and retools accordingly. Don't forget, the 92x production pales in comparison to the many varieties of the impreza. In other words, the 92x (and specific body components) are most likely produced NOT on a daily basis but other limited timeframes, probably weeks at a time and then stopped.
I totally agree with your complaint and sympathize, but lets not impugne an entire product based entirely on this one experience. My 92x has been an awesome car so far and I'm satisfied in every way, especially now that it's snowing out.
As far as the airbag issue is concerned, if you were telling me that the airbag did not deploy AND that you sustained a serious injury, I would think it to be a serious issue. My feeling is that it worked the way it was engineered to.
I hope they fix it soon and do a great job. The premium paid for the Saab should not entitle you or I to extra headaches.
BTW-Is insurance covering a rental car during this time?
I don't think I I'm impugning the 92x.... I started my original post w/ how much I enjoyed my car... still do; just wish I were driving it.
With regards to the airbag... I agree if they didn't go off it was PROBABLY engineered not to go off in that type of situation... but again, I'd like to know FOR SURE the thing is working. If you saw the car after the accident you'd be scratching your head as to why the thing didn't deploy. I have raised the concern to Saab with absolutely no reply. I'm not looking to sue... I'm just looking for some sort of customer relations/satisfaction and I have received NONE.
Insurance covered the first 15-days of repair. Saab claims they'll pick up the tab after 30-days if the slow repair is due to their issues... but they denied my claim. I guess parts being back ordered is not their fault?
If they couldn't come through, they should have been more upfront with the dealer, and the dealer in kind would had been to you.
I would send them a demand letter with proof that the parts were ordered in a timely manner by the dealer.
I drive about 100 miles a day in my 92x and ever since I read your post last night, I cringe everytime someone pulls out in front of me.
NOTE TO ALL... GET GOOD RENTAL CAR COVERAGE!!!!
That'll be over 60 days.!!!!! BUY SUBARU!!! I'm warning you now...
> since Nov. 18th isn't considered their fault
I would guess the fan shroud is a 100% Impreza part that most Subaru service shops would have in stock (if not then you might have had the same problem with the same accident in an Impreza). Have you tried asking at the local Subaru dealer ? I imagine the Saab dealer would be too pompous to do that themselves.
Bob
By the way, the $4500 off the $26,778 leaves a bit over $22k, which, incidentally, is about the same price carsdirect gives me for a base WRX wagon. Interesting. So Subaru gives them a car and they now turn around and start canibalizing Sube sales. Nice job, GM.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
-juice
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
I think overall it would be additive to Subaru sales, not dilutive.. I mean, it is still Subaru that builds the car.. It is only their dealer network that loses out..
regards,
kyfdx
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Impreza sales dropped off slightly, but Subaru still had a record year in 2004.
Hopefully the next generation will offer more differentiation so there's not so much overlap.
-juice
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
Even a blind pig finds an acorn, once in awhile..
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'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S