Ford Fusion/Mercury Milan

a_l_hubcaps · February 2004

ANT-

I was thinking, the Futura might eventually be a good replacement for my dad's 1998 Olds Intrigue (he is really racking up the miles, since his employer cut back and no longer offers company cars for business trips). You seem to be in the know; perhaps you can give me a few hints about some questions I have.

What kind of pricing should we expect to see on these cars? My impression is that the Five Hundred will be priced from $23,000 or thereabouts. Can I expect $18-23K for the Futura? Will the Mercury Mo***** be priced/equipped similarly (a la Sable) or significantly higher? Also, will the Taurus stick around for MY2006 or is the Futura a full replacement for it? Various reports I've read have failed to make that clear.

Oh, and of course the most important question, seeing as I'm in the hubcap business: will the Futura offer steel wheels? I've been heckling my dad since September, 1997 for buying a car with standard alloys...next time he's getting steel whether he likes it or not ;-)

By the way, I like the name Monarch better than Montclair!

-Andrew L

nvbanker · February 2004

is out of service for another week. It may be a while before you hear from him.

ANT14 · February 2004

I've been back since yesturday, but I lay low a few days till my mood re-adjusts to put up with Miami. A mess of calls, lots of reviews to deal with, 5am bedtimes, etc.

"What kind of pricing should we expect to see on these cars?"

Toooooooo early to tell. At this stage you could possibly have the platform, drivetrains, the core components in place. As for the interiors, options, etc. that still remains in the planning stage.

Ford has mentioned it'll have a 2.3L I-4, guestimate it'll make 160-170HP. A 3.0L Duratec V-6, guestimate around 200HP and Ford's new venture with GM might bless it with a 6 Speed automatic. And a higher sport variation Futura ST270 making 270HP from a possible 3.5L DOHC V6, or 2.3L Turbocharged I4.

TIP: The platform is AWD capable, don't be surprised if that becomes an option.

"Can I expect $18-23K for the Futura?"

I would expect it to go much higher, since the higher sporting version will command a higher price point. My personal guess, up to $26-27K.

"Will the Mercury Mo***** be priced/equipped similarly (a la Sable) or significantly higher?"

I'm sure it'll follow the same senario as the 500/Montego. Be the same, but offer HID and a few other gadgets with slight styling alterations.

"Also, will the Taurus stick around for MY2006 or is the Futura a full replacement for it?"

Supposedly as Ford has stated, the Taurus will be used for Rental/fleet sales. Like the Malibu classic is currently doing. I believe the Taurus' product cycle might continue till 2008 with a mild refresh in 2006. The mild refresh isn't something I'm clear about just yet.

"will the Futura offer steel wheels?"

The smaller details haven't yet been released, let alone planned this early.

tomcat630 · February 2004

Steel wheels are widespread on Asian mid sized cars in base/mid level trims. So, I think they will be standard on similar Futuras.

Example, the Focus SE used to have 15" alloys standard. Now, for 2004, steel 15" wheels are used.

jchan2 · February 2004

I'll bet the Futura S/SE (or whatever they name the trim levels) will have wheelcovers.

a_l_hubcaps · February 2004

ANT-

Thanks for the info. I know that no specs have been officially released for this car, but I wasn't sure how close you are to the horse's mouth, if you know what I mean.

$26-27K seems awfully high, although I guess if they do an SVT version or similar, that would be about right. As long as they offer lower-priced trim levels under $20K, I'll be happy with that.

tomcat...Yeah, I was happy to see that change. I have a customer who needs the Focus center cap and I can't get my hands on one that isn't broken. Maybe I'll just tell her to trade it in for an '04 with steelies :-P

-Andrew L

bewhite25 · February 2004

I think that we can expect to see Futura's sell in the $18k-23k price range, not including any special performance models. The 500 is supposed to sell in the $22k-30k range, and it is considerably larger than the Futura. Remember that this is targeted directly towards the Camry and Accord, so anything in the high $20's could turn off buyers. A 5 sp. manual and 6 sp. automatic are supposed to be the available transmissions, but whether the auto comes from ZF or the GM agreement, I do not know. I think if they made an AWD Futura with the 3.5L and a 6 sp. manual, it would be an awesome sports sedan. It'd be better than even the v6 SHO's.

jchan2 · February 2004

there are Accords and Camrys that push $30K.

6thbeatle · February 2004

i still like the ford 427 concept the best out of all the sedans--very future forward, cool, and powerful-looking. and those red stitched black leather seats--i'm like homer simpson dreaming of donuts...

nvbanker · February 2004

What's happened to the Ford Forty Nine concept car. I don't see it at the shows anymore. Has it been shelved? No chance of production? No money?

6thbeatle · February 2004

that was a slick-looking car too. made me think of a great gangster mobile or chopped top cruising hot rod.

bewhite25 · February 2004

Yeah, but if Ford really wants the Futura to sell, it'll have to start under $20k. High-end trim Futuras won't be making most of the sales. I doubt we're going to see any new full-size (I mean FULL size, not EPA classification) sedans from Ford in the future. The cost of development is too much and it won't sell enough to turn around a significant, if any, profit. I guess we're stuck with the Crown Vic/Grand Marquis.

6thbeatle · February 2004

i like the mercury marauder myself. that's pretty full-size. now only if they'd give it more torque and hp and a richer interior, i'd take one in black!

ANT14 · February 2004

Full size cars are actually more inexpensive to develop, than smaller or midsize cars. Smaller cars have to factor in pricing that will attract certain consumer's, not to mention their packaging requires much more develop dedication since it needs to be that much more stronger for accidents, as well as interior packaging space, while squeezing all the techonology in a small limited size. Same with a mid-sizer but to a lesser degree.

A RWD Full-size sedan for example, will have inherent properties that allow the development time to shorten. It's near 50/50 weight distribution will help in it's driving dynamics, and less concentration will need to be spent (as that of a FWD) to handle properly. At most, they'll stick an Anti-skid system and handle one of it's short comings.

The only real factors that have hampered Fullsize RWD development has been customer's in the snow belt that worry about traction (which now stability control can ease their concerns), and the drivetrain itself which contributes to parasitic loses that in part, allow the vehicle to not be so efficient at the pump.

But as consumer's are now learning, accepting, and becoming more educated, as well as the techonology being available... We might see a few more fullsize RWD sedans being introduced. Ironically, some of these snow belt consumer's who were buying FWD sedan for traction, at some point gravitated towards RWD SUV's, granted, possibly with 4x4. So more integration of 4x4/AWD vehicles will be seen in vehicles to come. Specially from Ford.

johnclineii · February 2004

Except for one thing, that is pretty much true. The one thing? Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE), which caused all the downsizing to start with. CAFE was a response to the Oil Embargo, but less than wisely excluded trucks. So large cars became SUV's in many cases, just to survive.

ANT14 · February 2004

And soon we'll see many "cars" that are passing as SUV's, to help CAFE. PT Cruiser being one, Freestyle being another.

jchan2 · February 2004

the next Subaru Outback SEDAN as another.

setzer · March 2004

I heard someone saying the Taurus will be held until 07 or something with some freshening in between. Here's what I think, yeah right. The Taurus will be dropped pretty soon (publicly). I'm surprised if it will see light after 2005 MY. If it does, it will only be to fleets. And i personally think the Taurus would be good to keep around for fleets for a while. It's design may not be brand new, but it isn't old. I'm sure the price will lower over the next few years, and that will attract a lot of fleets. Finally, the Futura will stay something unique, it won't be a fleet car that you will drive whenever you go somewhere. But whatever. Who knows.

ANT14 · March 2004

Yes the Taurus will be kept into 2007-2008, just like the old Malibu was turned into Malibu classic for rental fleets, the same will occur with the Taurus. This will help the Futura in not having the depreciation issue that the current Taurus has.

jchan2 · March 2004

change the name of the Taurus, or just keep the name?

ANT14 · March 2004

They will keep it as it is, it's pointless to change it since it will be out of commission soon. When changing a name, you need to re-educate the consumer on the product and what it is, that itself requires $$$ that they rather use elsewhere.

You would be amazed at how many people do not know what a Freestar is, and have been told the Windstar no longer exsists.

johnclineii · March 2004

...which just goes to show how stupid THAT name change was. All so it could start with an F? PLEASE,

nvbanker · March 2004

John is so right! But, I've already shot that gun enough - it is what it is. The Van is a lot better than the name.....IMO

jchan2 · March 2004

Why did they change the name from Windstar to Freestar anyways? All so it could start with an F?

johnclineii · March 2004

Yep.

Apparently.

Still think that was industrial strength dumb. On a par with Nissan changing from Datsun.

robr2 · March 2004

It's been almost 20 years since Datsun became Nissan. I think the dumb factor has disappeared.

As for the Windstar to Freestar name, IIRC it was a marketing decision. First they wanted to distance the new van from the old. Also Ford is going to common/theme names for it's vehicles except for Legend models:

Ford Freestar, 500, Futura, Focus

Ford Escape, Explorer, Expedition, Excursion

Mercury Montaineer and Mariner coupled with Lincoln Aviator and Navigator

Ford GT, Mustang, Thunderbird.

It works from a marketing perspective as it becomes memorable and creates a cohesive theme.

johnclineii · March 2004

First of all, who the thunder is cellkini?

Second, we are not talking about the Datsun decision NOW. We are talking about how dumb it was at the TIME. It took Nissan years to recover from that particular stupidity.

And if they are trying to distance the Freestar from the Windstar (AND the Aerostar), don't you think they could have picked a name without the star in it? No, they only wanted to make it fit the F rule.

Dumb.

Just dumb.

At least the Futura name has heritage AND fits the silly rule (which I figure will go by the wayside sooner than later).

nvbanker · March 2004

Personally, There ain't that much distance between the Freestar and the Windstar, IMO. The Freestar is considerably better, but it's very much the same underpinnings and is the same powertrain. The improvements are aesthetic, suspension and handling mostly. And they're notable, but to change the name, it ought to be a completely different Van, like the Windstar was from the Aerostar.

But alas, it is done, and they didn't include me in the focus group. Thank goodness they DID include me in naming the Aviator, it was heading for some wierd nomenclature at the time.

dondilio · March 2004

When will the Futura appear in the Auto Shows, January next year?

tomcat630 · March 2004

Rumour has it that the Futura will be called the "Four Hundred" instead. :P

ANT14 · March 2004

Futura, the name, is used by Pep Boy's brand tires... So if something can't be worked out, maybe Four-Hunred...

seminole_kev · March 2004

that Futura name has indeed been dropped do to an issue with Pepboy's tire line. Supposedly it is going to be the Ford Four-Hundred

ANT14 · March 2004

Yes that is correct, from what's being said at this time.

nvbanker · March 2004

What? Ford didn't have the Futura name trademarked? Wasn't the original Futura a Lincoln concept car, that eventually became the Batmobile? How could they let that go?

seminole_kev · March 2004

kind of like how Ford couldn't call the new Ford GT a GT-40 because someone has rights to the name now. Someone would know better than me, but I think if the name isn't used in so many years, the rights to the name lapse.

grbeck · March 2004

I don't like Four Hundred...Falcon or Fairlane would be much better.

johnclineii · March 2004

Assuming, of course, that THOSE names are available...

ANT14 · March 2004

There's an interesting article (not sure where to find it) stating the issues with Pep Boys trademarking the Futura name... And how Goodyear wanted to name one of their tires Fortera, and the issues they had amongst each other, over the name or similarities.

The same might occur with the Futura, so I guess Ford might have to use some other name. I too like the Falcon or Fairmont, etc. But they might be using that name for a true RWD sedan, that might be available in the future... IN other words, let's hope Ford doesn't screw up a vehicles heritage, as Chevy did with the Impala, and what it's placed upon.

Yes Ford still has the rights to Falcon, Fairmont, Fairlane...

dondilio · March 2004

when will an all new Ranger come out?

ANT14 · March 2004

That won't be till 2006-2007, if at that. That program hasn't yet begun in any sense of the word.

dondilio · March 2004

Now that the gm dinosaurs (s10, sonoma), are completely new, the new Dakota and new Tacoma are around the corner, I wonder whats taking Ford so long to redesign the Ranger. They have a much superior platform, Explorer, which its a big step forward over the old one. I wonder why they dont switch to the Explorer platform, that shouldnt take them all that long. They also could get Mazda to design the new RAnger/B-series

rctennis3811 · March 2004

Like I reported on the 500/Montego board, Ford has registered the "Four-Hundred" name. It maybe because they don't want anyone else to have hundreds in their cars or the Futura may infact be the Four-Hundred.

ANT14 · March 2004

Ford isn't concentrating that much on the Ranger since it's passenger cars they are focusing on.

nvbanker · March 2004

Can't do both, evidently, too costly. Even a refresh on the Ranger would help though, it's a great little truck - just looks dated.

ANT14 · March 2004

Hm there was a refresh on it for this year heh... New grill, a new interior color scheme, new radio faceplatem instrument panel, steering wheel... enough to get it by for the next few years.

nvbanker · March 2004

Hadn't noticed, not good, but maybe my fault.

ehaase · April 2004

It also appears that the Mercury version will be called Milan, and the Lincoln version (which may be shown at the New York Auto Show) will be Zephyr.

nvbanker · April 2004

Milan doesn't work for me..... This predeliction with alliteration might drive me away from Mercury if they don't choose some more appealing names. Sable was hard enough to swallow.

setzer · April 2004

Milan.. gross. why not Montclair or Monarch? I hope they use those two names sometime if it's not going to be on the Sable replacement.

nvbanker · April 2004

Agreed. Some Ms are fine, but Milan doesn't hit me square.

Ford Fusion/Mercury Milan

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