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BMW X3 vs Subaru Forester XT vs Infiniti FX 35 vs Toyota RAV4
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Comments
Zman
-juice
For me it is, but oregonboy, I'll bet you're not driving a Hyundai. See great out of those cars and they do a great job of getting from point a to b for $18K less than the Subie.
Zman
Huh?!?! The Santa Fe, which offers comparable utility, may be $18k less than a loaded X3 but it's only a few hundred less than the FXT.
-Frank P.
the Murano is smaller inside & out. Two completely different platforms as well. The Murano is built on the Altima platform and the FX is on the "FM" platform which is the same as the Z and G35. And yes you can see out of them. I've had one for 8 1/2 mos & have no problem at all with visibility.
Actually, the Murano is larger inside than the FX in every dimension: combined legroom, cargo room, shoulder room, hip room.
http://www.edmunds.com/apps/nvc/edmunds/VehicleComparison;jsessio- nid=AYOpjLGqauaZ37qcIXgNFWJDALX582BEat7SmKL2iBCPDjAavB1c!-2106918- 368?styleid=100366707&styleid=100330751&refid=&maxveh- icles=5&op=3&tab=specs
As a side note we LOVE the FX35 and are extremely satisfied with the entire package.
On the other hand, the 3.5l V6 option in the Sante Fe means it can probably keep up with the BMW X3 2.5l, but not the quicker SUVs in this thread.
By the way, that's getting a bit old. Sure, even a bicycle will do, but that's not the point, we're comparing sporty SUVs. That's something Hyundai just does not build.
For 2005, looks like the Forester XT will offer the Premium Package (huge moonroof) with the manual tranny. It's also getting the 3 spoke steering wheel from the WRX STi, improved climate control, and a better cruise stalk.
-juice
It's an all-new MOMO(?) 3-spoke design. The airbag area is a large triangle. It looks very good.
Bob
Zman
I've driven my 1990 325 from new and have just loved its driveability and reliability. Now its a little long in the tooth and a little small, so sadly...
The Forester L I bought my (now ex) wife was a pleasure to drive, almost everything I would have needed, but I want the sunroof and blue (perhaps you read my haiku?).
I had such high hopes for the X3 (sunroofs in blue!) but on my test drive was really disappointed. It was heavy, and twitchy and no smile came to my lips:o(
Question:
Now I'm having 2nd thoughts: is it possible that the X3 was set up incorrectly: wrong tire pressures / undocumented sports package, do I have to adapt my driving style to a performance car that isn't long in the tooth? I'll freely admit that I would prefer the X3 and would happily pay the extra 10k, but only if I can puzzle the mystery of that ride. Thoughts please.
Bob
Zman
Bob
An ex-dealer employee showed me a list of new models, I judged it as very reliable. He had no reason to lie - he was trying to sell me a CPO Saab 9-5 wagon and the news makes me even more likely to stick with Subaru.
splurger: heavy and twitchy is no fun. Go back and specifically request a different suspension set up. Take a tire gauge with you, the whole nine yards.
If you're thrilled with your Bimmer give the X3 a fair shot. Then if you still pick something else you'll have absolutely no regrets.
Good luck.
-juice
BMW sales, one report in the Wall Street journal said up 5.6% and USA Today said 9%. Feb sales were up as well.
You people that don't like the looks of BMW are obviously in a minority, a recent article I read said the Z4 was on pace to outsell the 350 Z and the new 5 series is outselling the old. This is all in spite of the effect of the euro which is killing BMW and all European manufactures. So go ahead Subaru owners what lame excuse will you come up with now for BMW continuing to kick butt, I'm sure it will be another total opinion packed answer not based on any reality as usual. And by the way, you can call the Forester an SUV but it looks like a station wagon that got stuck in the 70'S. If I want a station wagon I'll buy a station wagon. At least call it what it is, when I buy SUV's I want them to look like SUV's or SAV's in BMW's case.
Just because the Forester XT is fast and cheap doesn't make it the best sport utility. If fast and cheap were that important I guess the Camaro would still be for sale.
That's funny.
Scotth6 You forgot to mention that BMW Brand sales are down 8% for the first quarter compared to last year a pretty bad figure considering the bold new direction and this new era of discounting which is unprecedented considering BMW's past.
The BMW Brand sales is an indicator that points to the new designs. This number should be up and BMW knows it. This is why they are responding with the makeover of the 7 and the dubious Bangle "promotion".
Yes they were down in January due to factory closings and re-tooling in January. I will acknowledge the sale of a $70K car to a luxury buyer is different than the sale of a $30-$35K car to a near luxury buyer, but I happen to like to new designs inside and out.
A lot of people disagree, including Car and Driver who named it the best small SUV of the year. And of course, safety is nice too, Forester was named by the insurance institute as the safest SUV they'd ever tested.
Because the new Legacy and Outback are due next month and those are their volume sellers.
You're just looking at one month that supports your (weakest yet) argument.
-juice
Glad to hear that folks are enjoying their X3s, and that there have been very little in the way of complaints. I was very impressed with it after my test drives, just hoping for a little more oomph from my next ride.
I've driven the Volvo XC70, and compared to the Forester XT there is a lot more lag and the tranny is slower to shift. The auto Forester is quicker but the 5 speed manual Forester absolutely blows the XC70 away, no contest.
Given the OB XT will have more power, more boost, I fully expect it will show the Volvo and Audi its taillights. Even in the twisties.
I think we'll see sub 6 second 0-60 times, about 7 seconds with automatic.
The Outback suspension will probably be dialed in for more comfort than the X3 or FX, but the Legacy GT (also available with a turbo) should even have a better ride/handling balance than the heavier SUVs.
-juice
Both the Audi and the Volvo are way out of my price range. I believe the 4.2 Allroad is now in the $50K's? Though I do think the OBXT will match-up very well in terms of room, comfort, and performance.
Oh, and I have not ruled out a GT limited wagon, though I'm waiting to see if it is somehow possible to get leather w/out a sunroof.
More importantly for Subaru, they will also steal sales from Volvo, VW and Audi and the car based mid range and lux SUV world with both the OBXT and new revised 3.0R. Dont think the outgoing model was quite in that ballpark.
I am cross shopping the MT FXT with the 3.0R auto, as in Canada the latter is going to be the "base" model for those wanting a bit more than the N/A 4 cyl 2.5i. Once we get to drive the cars should be easy decision because they are going to be very different (I have never driven the current H6). I'd say it is tougher in the US where a loaded FXT and base OBXT will be much closer in price.
Getting further off topic, but wonder how many folks will be torn between the OB 3.0R and OBXT??
Have you seen the moonroof, though? It's massive, and now it's no longer split like it used to be. The front tilts up, the rear open all the way, leaving a gaping hole.
Headroom on all Legacys is much better for 2005. Ramana Lageman, the US SCCA Rally driver for Subaru, is 6'4" and had room to spare over his head in a moonroof-equipped sedan. I'm 6" and even in the rear of that sedan I had a few inches to spare.
If you don't want the moonroof for other reasons, what about aftermarket leather? Katskins or similar.
The H6 is about luxury - it's quiet and smooth. At idle my wife didn't realize it was on and reached for the ignition. It's geared very tall for relaxed, efficient cruising.
The turbo is geared short and will blow the doors off of anything in its class. It's not as quiet and not nearly as fuel efficient as the H6. I also think its character will be substantially different - all performance.
Drive both and you'll have a clear preference.
-juice
BMW sales are trending up through Feb and increasing through March. The ir was little or no 5 Series available in Jan and the X3 was not available. You Subaru guys can't stand it can you, just go ahead and admit that that the X3 is a success as well as the Z4 and even the new 5 Series. Yes, the 7 Series has a problem with electronics and a trunk but the looks are being changed for 2005. BMW says their brand sales will definitely be up for 2004 and I believe them a lot more than a couple of Subaru owners.
And quit calling your station wagon an SUV. Probably the number one reason for buying a SUV is a high seating position and your station wagon does not have it.
The subie is not in the same class as the other vehicles here. First of all it is small and very uncomfortable. All you subie nuts say how much more utilty and visibility it has than an FX but what good is that if I don't fit.
Second the interior and leather are nice for what it is and that is a 20k vehicle.
Finally you know how many people were looking at the FXT NONE compare that to lines looking at the FX and X3. Yeah the subie is fast but so is the neon srt-4 don't mean you should compare it to a m3 or g35.
Kudos to BMW for doing well with the reader's choice awards but personally I'd rather own a vehicle voted best by knowledgeable car reviewers (C&D and CR) than be chosen by the slave-to-fashion brand-conscious masses. But honestly, if a vehicle truly suits your needs, does it really matter if it wins any awards?
And of course the FXT is really just a tall station wagon, as are the X3 and FX. All three are built on car platforms and none have a low-range transmission, both common litmus tests for being a real "SUV".
-Frank P.
tidester, host
Frank P. points out correctly that all three vehicles in this comparison are car-based vehicles. Whether you call them cars, tall wagons, SUVs, or hedgehogs isn't relevant. What is relevant is whether the vehicles in question meet the owners' needs. In this case those needs may not all carry the same weight.
I must admit I seldom post here but that's because I'm still waiting to read about someone testing these vehicles back-to-back. I suppose I should do that myself.
Ed
Ed
http://www.rallydecals.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=4- 2
Some people don't necessarily drive premium brands to "smoke" other cars but because they prefer a more refined driving experence. Speed alone does not equate to a great driving experience.
Good cargo room and passenger capacity in a tidy package with excellent visibility.
Tops in class safety.
Better than average reliability (according to sources such as Consumer Reports) and an expectation of excellent durability, based upon the % of ten year old Subaru's still on the road.
Attractive interior, with excellent features (In dash cd changer, auto climate control, heated seats, big sunroof available, etc. etc.)
Good balance between ride and handling (vs. the X3 which has better handling at the expense of ride).
While there are not a lot of fancy gadgets, it has a capable AWD system with good ground clearance (yet low center of gravity) and a LSD.
Plus excellent acceleration and a top ten rated engine by Ward's Autoworld (the BMW inline six is on that list also).
Winner of Car and Driver and Consumer Reports best Small SUV.
All at a good price.
There are a lot of good, logical reasons to buy a Forester. All the reasons to pay $10k to $15k more for the BMW end up being touchy-feely and based upon emotional reasons such as status (but ummm... the BMW just has to be better. I paid so much more for it as compared to a Subaru)
BTW, when I went to the auto show, I was disappointed in the interior of the X3. Looked cheap and plasticky for such an expensive vehicle.
Thanks for the comic relief, though.
-juice
No one needs to convince me that the Forester is a decent car. I like the Forester. I’ve owned one for the past 4 years and it has served us well....even though it needed transmission work after 10,000 miles (under warranty) and a new clutch at 41,000 miles (my friend had one replaced at 60,000).
I did take the Forester XT out for a test drive. It was just as noisy as my Forester and though it had more pick-up, it seemed to have a delayed pick-up compared to the X3 w/step. Yes, there are many "good, logical" reasons to buy a Forester. But if you think the only reason to buy an X3 is because of status, you probably haven’t driven one. The X3 has a more quite ride, superior handling (not at the expense of ride if you have the right tire pressure!), fantastic braking system, great AWD system, great safety features like front and rear head protection system, and free maintenance through 50,000 miles. The overall driving experience of the X3 (including giant sun roof and superb power adjustable seats with memory), is just in a different league, plain and simple. So yes, the X3 is more expensive, but in my opinion worth every penny.