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Honda Odyssey vs. Toyota Sienna

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Comments

  • xfactorxfactor Member Posts: 78
    At long last after 5 years and 113,000 miles of driving I am looking to buy another MV as the primary family car and push my 99 HO to back-up status. I have a 2 year window to buy and am just starting the process. I am already down to the HO or the Sienna. I briefly looked at a 2004 Sienna LE 8-seats but could not get it with a DVD player CM package offered in Brochure's just not made. When I compared Camry to Accord on a previous purchase I really liked Camry but Toyota did not make the LE trim line with the package I wanted. Suggestions on both Camry and Sienna from dealer was go up one trim line.

    Aside from this issue I will compare the two vans on price and then move on from there. Early issues are I would like AWD but also need 8 seats. Honda does not offer AWD and Sienna does not offer AWD on the 8 seater.

    Does anyone know when the 2005 HO will be crash tested?
  • lobsenzalobsenza Member Posts: 619
    The side airbags are available on the Toyota, so as long as you equip it properly, they are equal.
  • cpstarcpstar Member Posts: 31
    The new Ody has a rollover sensor as well. My understanding is that the Sienna's don't even as an option, so I would not consider the two "equal" as far as air bag features are considered.
  • truthspeakertruthspeaker Member Posts: 1
    Honda is good, Toyota is better...
    The Sienna has a considerably shorter stopping distance. It is wider, taller, and longer, which will give you a much better ride (especially from the 3rd row seat and there is no denying that fact) as well as more cargo and passenger space. As a guy who's 6'2" and 210 lbs, I'm not the smallest person in the world but I could ride in the back of the Sienna where as I was ready to get out the minute I sat in the back of the Honda.
    Also, the ease with which you can get into the 3rd row from the sliding door is evident when you put the 2 vehicles side by side... there's simply more space to get into the back when you tumble Sienna's 2nd row seat forward.
    My brother did some research for me and told me that the 1st generation Sienna was the safest automobile in the world and it stands to reason that Toyota isn't going to backslide from a 1st gen. to a 2nd. gen.
    p.s. Honda isn't really discounting their 2005s and Toyota will to some small extent.
    my point here I guess is that they are not the same and we shouldn't think it.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,513
    I felt (as did my wife) that the Honda was roomier in the 3rd row. I would also have a hard time considering either one too small, or lacking cargo or passenger room. I can't comment on the braking, because I don't have numbers handy to compare directly.

    But, the Honda is considered to have better handling. Sounds like you want an isolated, floaty ride, even if it is at the expense of handling/control.

    But, that's the point of this thread, to compare opinions, just don't try to present them as "facts"

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    You are wrong about the stopping distances. The Odyssey beats the Sienna.
  • carzzzcarzzz Member Posts: 282
    "1st generation Sienna was the safest automobile in the world"

    is that true?... I saw the 1st generation Sienna had a head-on collision with benz 2003+ E320 on local commute...
    Sienna was severe damaged (air-bags pops out, the car's condition is almost like a 40mph crash test, but a bit better, the front-end is completely smashed/"compressed") E320 was not that badly damaged (broken grille and tilt hood)
    Also, passengers from sienna got into an ambulance but not the m-b E320 passengers...

    Is 1st gen sienna the "safest" automobile?
  • denver5357denver5357 Member Posts: 319
    Actually, yes, I would have a stock recommendation (up more than 400% in past five years with two splits), but it is the stock I sold to buy the van so I need to get more and I don't feel like giving out my secret.

    Is the gear shift on the ceiling as well? I better test drive a Sienna again and comb the ceiling this time.
  • thumperthumper Member Posts: 75
    Discounting varies from region to region. On the West Coast, I found better deals on Hondas than the Toyotas. (on top of the baffling inability for several dealers to obtain an AWD XLE #12)

    Safest automobile in the world? That's a mighty high claim to make. I hope your brother can provide us with some of the research to back it up against the safety records of Mercedes and Volvo. Perhaps it was a comparison against other minivans (which excludes the above mentioned companies), although as I recall the 1st gen Sienna wasn't that remarkable a vehicle. This is why the '04 was such a leap from the past generation in terms of utility, performance, and yes, safety. Toyota designed the Sienna to beat the pack of circa-2003 minivans, and most will say they delivered.

    Everyone has different priorities and requirements coming into the minivan market. To some, three extra inches of hiproom in the 3rd row doesn't mean squat compared to some other feature. Some feature that may seem ridiculous to you, because your priorities are different. For me, having twins in child seats for the next several years... likely the service life of the current vehicle, having the tumble forward 2nd row meant precisely zip because I can't tumble with the car seats in. However, I *did* take note that the passenger 2nd row belt is incorporated into the seat, which makes getting into the back easier when the seat belt is used to hold the child seat in (as compared to Honda's belt against the wall, which would run across the access to the 3rd row). A feature you probably did not even notice because again, your priorities are different.

    You're right. They're not the same. They're different. But they're awfully close... enough to make them well worth the time spent shopping both for anyone in today's minivan market.

    --> Andy
  • mcase2mcase2 Member Posts: 160
    Yes, you should. If you comb the ceiling you will find Home Link, a digital compass, outside temp, a mileage computer, and a power door button.
  • impact01impact01 Member Posts: 95
    The first generation Sienna had the best rating (among minivans) from IIHS based on dummy dynamics and the second generation also gets the same rating.

    Since, the newer Ody hasn't been tested yet, if I were in the market, I would wait till the results come out. Honda dealers keep claiming that the 05 Odyssey stopping distances are less than the Sienna, but do we have any objective evidence of that?

    Same with the NVH levels in the new Odyssey. The general feeling seems to be though, while much better than the previous generation, the 05 is still noisier compared to Sienna.

    I think Honda goofed big time going with PAX tires on the Touring. I avoided the AWD LTD Sienna just because of the run flats, and the PAX is even worse in that they are special sized tires where one can't even use ordinary tires in a pinch.

    On the AWD Sienna the run flats obviously can be replaced by regular tires if one chooses to. I am not in the market any more, but the above mentioned issues would keep me from even test driving the 05 Ody.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    At this point the Oddyssey hasn't been crash tested by the feds.

    However, Honda has the largest indoor crash testing facility in the world. They, of course, have done their own crash tests and they fully expect the 05 Odyssey to earn top marks.

    I know, in the past with new models, Honda has predicted 5 star ratings based on these tests and they have never been wrong.
  • chiawchiaw Member Posts: 92
    No it hasn't. No one has done test to prove that. Same with turning radius. Honda brochure may state that. But unless there is a comparison test Odyssey can't claim a thing.
  • chiawchiaw Member Posts: 92
    Bingo. Try to replace custom rims and tires in middle of nowhere. Toyota runflat tire is already hard to find. But at least it's a standard size rim and can use regular tires.

    But with PAX, you are totally stuck. Idiot move. Also, if the van already has PAX installed, why keep the spare tire location and take away the 3" hip room from the 3rd row. Odyssey just has so many of brain choke. No HID- like the driver don't need to drive at night.

    Dumb move one after another.
  • chiawchiaw Member Posts: 92
    Better handling on the Odyssey is really overrated.

    The steering response is much better than Sienna. But this does not equate to better handling.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I won't argue with your opinions but tell me...

    Do we really need HID headlights in order to drive at night? Really?
  • chiawchiaw Member Posts: 92
    Yes you do.

    Especailly when ambient light does not exist.

    The good thing about Sienna HID is that it allows the driver ability to aim the head light at different angle if he/she chooses. Thus, at lowest setting, the HID is aimed to the gound and does not blind the oncoming traffic nor does it blind the car in front of it.

    When there are no traffic around and no light, it allows the driver to aim 3 times further than lowers setting hence allows the driver to see 3 times further down the road. Much better than Odyssey head light. Try driving on highway 152 at night, you will notice how good the Sienna HID head light is compare to regular halogen light.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,513
    One or more of the car magazines whould have a cmoparison test soon of the new wave of minivans (maybe time for good old Edmunds to do an update?).

    I will have to go back to the Ody road tests and look for braking numbers. But, the only way you can compare #s is if they were generated at the same time, head to head by the same testers and test equipment.

    As always, just drive them both, sit in all the seats, etc. and pick whichever one suits you (and your needs) the best. Just because you pick one model doesn't mean the other one is bad, no good, or inferior.

    To each his own.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    " Yes you do"

    I totally disagree. I drive just fine at night without these. I slow down when it's dark and I don't overdrive my headlights. You seem to imply that a person can't drive at night without these.

    I'm sure, however, I would see an improvement if my car had them. I have no idea where Hwy 152 is but I can assure you it gets VERY dark around here as well. No doubt, like so many other things someday all cars will probably have HID lights but for the time being, I'll rough it out.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I dunno Isell - I'm in my early 50's and if I drove at night much, I'd want them. As it is, I mostly avoid night driving if I can.

    HID Headlamps

    Aftermarket headlights/ bulbs (halogen, xenon, etc.)

    Steve, Host
  • heywood1heywood1 Member Posts: 851
    Well, of course not. We don't need a lot of things. But the HID lights are a great innovation. Of course, you get what you pay for. I understand replacement cost is around $1,000.

    In the realm of expensive options, I do think HID headlights are more useful and desirable (to me) than, say, a NAV system. Especially now that I'm closer to 40 than 20. Can't see the way I used to!
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    But I still don't think they are an absolute must in order to drive at night. Steve, I'm a couple of years older than you are and I have to admit, my night vision isn't good. hopefully it won't continue to worsen but it probably will.
  • denver5357denver5357 Member Posts: 319
    A question: Are HID essentially what hitting your "brights" were like? In other words, they let you see further but when on, they blind (somewhat)oncoming drivers?

    If so, I wouldn't want to always be clicking back and forth to avoid blinding others. I always hated that with "brights." Sometimes I would forget and someone would honk or flick their lights at me. I would just leave it alone and drive a little slower.
  • thumperthumper Member Posts: 75
    Yes, I agree that HIDs in general do make a difference on the road. But is it enough to sell the car on it's own? Especially when only the LTD's are getting them? The Sienna boards have mixed feelings about the way they're implimented on the current generation. Using a reflector assembly (vs. projector beam) and manual leveling is sort of a stopgap attempt. The reflector-type doesn't have as good a pattern as the projectors, and manual leveling is both a hassle to adjust every time you crest a hill into traffic, and prone to blinding when the eager driver wants to squeeze "just a few more feet" out of visible road. You guys may be polite enough to dip the lights in traffic, but for every one of you there's probably 5 bozos out there who aren't. :)

    If I *really* felt like I was driving blind, I'll just throw on a Safari Bar and slap some nice big Hellas on the front. :)
  • mcase2mcase2 Member Posts: 160
    I agree with stick guy. The Handling on both cars is intentional. Its not as if Toyota could not have designed a tighter driving car. To me the ody had a stiffer ride and harder steering. Obviously a lot of people prefer this, but its a preference. The ride was less comfortable in my opinion. I like any easy wheel I can palm and a car that isolates me from bumps and jolts.
  • blangstaffblangstaff Member Posts: 2
    I don't understand how the ability to aim the lights can be legal. It seems that having the lights aimed high would cause difficulty for a large number of other drivers, both in front of you and driving at you. In fact, many states check the head light adjustment as part of a required inspection.

    It just seems irresponsible to me. Am I missing something?
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Honda does this on purpose. They are designed to be more of a "driver's car" than a Toyota.

    But there are those who like the isolation of the "Buick" like ride.

    This is expecially evident in a Accord vs. Camry test. to me the Camry feels mushy but that mushiness appeals to others.
  • ewtewt Member Posts: 127
    There's no need to dip the HIDs via the adjuster for normal driving. The adjuster is designed to lower them if the back end of the car is loaded -at "0" (the highest setting) they are not aimed too high. I don't think I've ever been flashed by oncoming traffic. Using reflectors rather than projectors isn't ideal, but I'd still rather have them than halogens.
  • thumperthumper Member Posts: 75
    Someone mentioned that they could turn the Sienna's lights high enough to reach significantly farther than normal headlights. That's probably too high for traffic, whether you notice people flashing you back or not.
  • tassotasso Member Posts: 33
    We recently moved over to a minivan, expecting number two soon. Wow amazing space in these things. We first looked at and thought of the 2005 Ody, ended up with the Sienna 2005.

    I could not find any price savings when comparing the features we wanted. We wanted auto on and off headlights and a power lift gate on the rear.

    Actually we really wanted the on and off headlights, and were forced into the Touring model. And when we compared a Touring with DVD, we could get a Toyota XLE with DVD AWD for less with the dealers $2000 off.

    Really liked them both, but if we had to spend $4000 more above the EX-L we were looking at, we decided the AWD was important in snow country.

    Plus of Toyota, smooth leather better plastic, softer leather, quiet. Disadv no run down protection if a light is left on- weird? No lazy susan.

    Both look similar in the front, but I really like the "power door groove" being hidden below the window itself on the Toyota. Telescoping steering wheel, and AWD and similar options (except memory seats and smaller DVD screen) for the same money in our case as a FWD Touring.

    Honda memory seats, nice front end. But should really offer auto on/off headlghts on EX.

    Both are great, and way more space than an SUV it seems.

    Would love either one.
  • ewtewt Member Posts: 127
    "Someone mentioned that they could turn the Sienna's lights high enough to reach significantly farther than normal headlights. That's probably too high for traffic, whether you notice people flashing you back or not."

    They're not aimed too high. I have a lot of experience aiming headlights (I've been into automotive lighting for a lot of years), and they're just fine even at the highest setting (with no load in the back). They're actually pretty oncoming-traffic friendly compared to some of the HIDs used on cars (BMW X5s being one "glaring" example).
  • chiawchiaw Member Posts: 92
    You are missing the point with Sienna HID. Sienna head light sit much higher than normal cars. Therefore in order to prevent blinding effect it has on the other car. The manual adjustment is not really manual as the degree of aiming is still controlled by electronics. It simply allows driver to select 5 settings. I think is actually a clever design.

    Auto leveling on car works because the head light housing itself is not as high as those on a SUV/VAN. sienna's manual adjustment is actually a more advance version of it. Because the electronics is still controlling the angle of the light. It's simply auto leveling that allows driver input. It actually requires additional switches and wiring.

    Projector light is nice to focus the beam. But on high head light housing van/suv. This is dangerous for the other cars. The problem with auto levelling is that it can't tell if you are driving 45 mph in city or in rural area where there is no light. With a car, the degree of variation is low. But with a van it's different because you are so limited by the height of the housing.
  • chiawchiaw Member Posts: 92
    NO. The bright on your halogen headlight would simply project the beam further down the road in the mean time reduce amount of light directly in front of you.

    The HID on sienna on the other hand, due to its superior lighting actually allows the driver to see all the way from just its nose to the area where your bright goes. The whole area in front of driver is lighted much better than simply switch to hi-beam.

    You are correct that at 0 degree setting it's like having hi beam. But there is a difference. With hi-beam all the intensity of the light is aimed higher. By going with reflective design on the Sienna HID, the intensity is not as concerntrated on the furtherest point.

    However it does have some impact especially on the car in front of you. Although not as severe as hi-beam. This is also the reson why I think toyota did not go with projector type of HID on the sienna. As the manual control would allow too much concerntration of light beam in one place.

    Click is actually not that difficult. It's a knob that you just have to turn it.
  • chiawchiaw Member Posts: 92
    The problem with cars like X5 is that projector lights are the main culprit. The light beam are too concerntrated in one area. I got flashed all the time in my ex RX300 when the light just too bright.

    At 0 setting, on the sienna, I did get flash once or twice but not as bad as i did in the RX300.

    Usually for daily driving i simply left it at 4. Which emits almost no light to cars stop in front of me.

    here are some pictures i just took about 10 minutes ago.

    HID at lowest setting- this is about as much coverage you are going to get from the Odyssey head light. Except the coverage area with Sienna HID are brighter and slightly wider.

    http://home.comcast.net/%7Echiawei2/PDR_0169_small.JPG

    http://home.comcast.net/~chiawei2/wsb/media/177763/site1009.JPG

    HID at highest setting-

    http://home.comcast.net/%7Echiawei2/PDR_0171_small.JPG

    http://home.comcast.net/~chiawei2/wsb/media/177763/site1010.JPG

    From the picture you can get a feeling on how much further the Sienna HID can see down the road. You will also notice that the light beam pattern is not high concerntrated. If this were projector type HID beams. On the high setting i would have probably blind others as well as car in front of me. But with reflective type, you actually get benefit of better and futher coveratge, while not bliding others.

    This is what Odyssey really lacks. At $38,810 ( a mere $300 less than my XLE limited HO), it lacks HID, no manual adjustment on head light, stupid pax tires, smaller interior, and cheaper interior.

    You may not believe that seeing further down the road is a great help. But if anyone take a drive on highway 152 between 101 and highway 5. You would know that driving 65+ on mountain twisting road with high wind and no light with wild animal as well. You would appreciate any assistance in seeing further down the road.

    This is what you get for $39k on a toyota. A sense of security that knowing you can see further and not have react as quickly as poor halogen on the odyssey.
  • cpstarcpstar Member Posts: 31
    Thanks, chiaw, for educating us on the HIDs. Yours is one of the best postings I have seen on the subject. You have proved again the proverbial a picture is worth a thousand words. Thanks again! I am sold on HID.
  • ewtewt Member Posts: 127
    Projector HIDs aren't necessarily bad. Actually, projectors are preferable to reflectors because better light control is possible, leading to a sharper light cutoff and more even dispersion of light. However, they're also more expensive, which is why you see reflectors used on the Sienna (and other cars). The glare you get from some cars with projector HIDs is due to poor projector/housing design rather than the technology itself. There are cars with poor reflector based HIDs (Escalades being one example) as well.
  • thumperthumper Member Posts: 75
    Ok. Remember that I've already said that I think HIDs do provide a benefit with brighter whiter light. However, I feel the Sienna's implimentation of them aren't taking full advantage of what HID has to offer.

    The advantage of a projector beam setup over a reflector assembly is having better control of the pattern. A reflective headlight will generally have more stray light and a "fuzzier" cutoff at the top. This is what can blind oncoming traffic. Particularly with US-DOT spec headlamps, which generally have less control of stray glare than European-spec headlamps. This has improved somewhat with dual-spec headlamps on newer cars, although I can't say for sure if a minivan (largely a North America-only animal) will have those.

    You may feel that at '0' and no load, your lights aren't too high. You mention that the Sienna sits high on the road, and this is part of the problem. More ofen than not, people are going to be driving around with at least some load in their minivan. Because if you were driving in an empty van *all* the time, you'd be in a BMW instead. ;)

    If you look at the photos, you're getting enough stray light to illuminate the street signs. Yes, great for you so you can read them, but bad for the drivers ahead if there's too much of it. At the approximate angle of the back window in that teal Accord(?) ahead, you have enough stray light above your pattern to get bright reflections off cars waaaaay in the distance of your shot. Again, great for you, bad for them.

    I've looked at the light pattern photos posted. I'd disagree that at the lowest setting that you're comparable to the pattern on a good set of factory halogens. Based on the pattern against the back of the Accord, I'd say the pattern on my Subaru was about halfway in between. The Odyssey would be a little higher.

    Now it's true that at the extreme front end of the pattern a HID will be more useful because of brighter intensity. But you need that sharp cutoff to be able to control that long throw and keep it out of other driver's eyes.

    Even a projector will have some stray light. But not nearly as much as a reflective headlamp.

    The aiming assembly on a Sienna is *not* automatic! It's electronically driven, but manually controlled. If you leave the dial at '0', the lights will be aimed at a certain angle. This angle does not change if you add load to the car.
  • chiawchiaw Member Posts: 92
    Projector are not bad. In fact its better. But it really depends on the application.

    For SUV such as X5, the projector are not that good as it would blind oncoming traffic much easier. Both X5 and Sienna i believe use same 4300k bulbs. However with projector the light beam are so concerntrated it blinds.

    For cars, projector works excellent because the light just sits lower and degree of variation is less. For SUV, I still don't understand why projector is necessary other than to look cool.
  • chiawchiaw Member Posts: 92
    1. I did not say that at 0 setting the lights are not too high. That's why as a courtesy I would aim my head light low in normal driving. Only in rare cases i will aim my light higher.

    2. Even at 0 setting the amount of light emitted is not as bad as it would have been with projectors. With reflective tyep the light are more evenly disperesed. Notice how wide the sienna head light coverage was. If you design the housing well as in case of sienna. You would see that there isn't a lot of stray light. In fact the coverage area is wider and you can see about 1 car width on each side.

    3. Sienna does not allow automatic height adjustment because like i said in previous post. The van would have no way of telling if you are driving in complete darkness and you need to see further or you are drving in city environment. However it's still actually automatically controlled. Because it still needs to hold head light (both left and right) at the angle you chooses. It still needs to align both light correctly. It simply allows you to aim the light.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,513
    In general, headlights seem to have gotten much better recently (even non-HID). Maybe it's because of the trend toward big bug eyes?

    Anyway, yes, HIDs are nice, but there are plenty of normal light set-ups that put out plenty of light.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • thumperthumper Member Posts: 75
    You can have a nice wide pattern with projectors. For years I had a very nice set of aftermarket projector fogs lamps on my car. Sharp, flat, and wide. Within the pattern the light was extremely even. Aimed against a wall you would see a flat white stripe.

    The "concentration" of light you perceive with projectors is from the sharp cutoff. Granted, for a lot of drivers it's disorienting to have a sudden blackness above the reach of their headlights. But this precisely why a well-designed projector HID will not glare oncoming traffic as badly as a reflector setup. You can aim your lights onto the road with less light straying up into drivers faces than with with reflectors. If the X5 is blinding people with their projectors, it's because they're aimed too high. Or the design of the projectors is not as good as they should be. With as much control as a projector lamp affords, there is no excuse for not being able to put the light on the road instead of drivers eyes.

    Your pictures show how much stray light is hitting those cars off in the distance at '0'. Perhaps you should stand where the teal Accord is at '0' and put your head at the level of the rearview mirror and gauge for yourself if you think the headlights are glaring or not. Yes, I know you didn't say you thought '0' wasn't too high, in fact you state yourself that it's comparable to high beams. It was someone else in this thread who stated that, and I'm just trying to keep from spamming the thread with multiple posts. ;)

    If you look at the back of the Sienna's headlamps, the drive for the headlamps is a mechanical screwshaft. There is nothing "automatic" about this system. Turn the dial, aim the lights to a preset angle. Electrically controlled? Yes. But in no way does a computer intervene and decide that the angle needs to *change* unless you are turning the dial yourself.

    With their higher intensity, HID's have a greater potential to become a hazard by blinding oncoming traffic. That's the purpose of automatic leveling. Not to determine if "you need to see further". You are courteous enough to dip your lights in traffic. But as I said, for every one of you, there are at least 5 people out there who are happy to just "set it and forget it". Lord knows there are plenty enough idiots around with halogens aimed too high.

    HID's are great. Don't get me wrong. I'm just disagreeing with the method which they're implimented in the Sienna. I would have loved to have them, as I felt that I, like you, would have been responsible enough to aim them properly for the situation. But not everyone does. I do give them credit though for at least using a dedicated reflector assembly rather than just sharing the same assembly from the lesser halogen-equipped models. That would have been even worse.
  • thumperthumper Member Posts: 75
    Part of that is the continuing evolution in headlamp design. Frankly, part of it is the fact that they can now have dual-spec headlamps in the US now, so we're getting some of the benefit of E-spec design because it's cheaper for manufacturers to give us better lights (i.e. one assembly for two cars) rather than give us a seperately-designed headlight.

    But yeah, the Bug-Eye trend means we're going away from the pinched "aero" designs. There were some *awful* headlights coming out in the 80's and 90's.
  • chiawchiaw Member Posts: 92
    1. Yes and know. I have owned quiet bit of cars with projector light. I will post a picture tonight on my MB and show why projector light will not work as well as reflective light in this case. It's not really sharp cutoff you are claiming. Rather the light are concernrated in two area. You should also notice that the cutoff on sienna's HID is quiet good from the low setting. On my W211 and my wife's W209. The head light projector beam has two distinct brighter spot in its pattern. On the sienna, you don't see that.

    2. This is what i am saying. The projector on the X5 due to height of the head light creates a blinding effect. If you give X5 height adjustment control, you are going to kill someone. I just like toyota's solution better. See further without killing people in front of you.

    3. Electronic control yes. There is no sensor to monitor the change in vehicle dynamic to adjust the light. But this is exactly the point. As i have stated earlier. With sensor type auto levelling design, the vehicle can't really tell what kind of driving condition you are in. It can't tell if you are driving 45 mph in rural road where you want to see further or 45 mph in main city street where you don't want to blind others. This allows driver the ability to choose what he/she sees best.

    4. That i agree with. A lot of people would simply turn it at high and forget about it. The only good thing is that with reflective housing it's not as blinding as projector.

    One thing that i would suggest toyota change would be a warning system on the dash stating the current angle setting of HID. Because I don't like to be aimed from behind as well. But compare my HID to other SUV with fixed HID, I much prefer my sienna HID. Knowing the fact that I will not blind other while maintain my safety.
  • ewtewt Member Posts: 127
    The Sienna doesn't have the nice razor sharp cutoff you get with a good set of e-code projector lights, but it's pretty good for a reflector light. They don't bleed a lot of light upwards either based on looking at them projected on a wall and my viewing of oncoming Limiteds with HIDs. They are much friendlier to oncoming traffic than many other HID equipped cars. My "load" usually consists of two little kids and a few bags of groceries, so the rear end isn't sagging. When I have had enough to make it sag, I've lowered the headlights, which is a very nice feature for Toyota to have included IMO.
  • ewtewt Member Posts: 127
    "Yes and know. I have owned quiet bit of cars with projector light. I will post a picture tonight on my MB and show why projector light will not work as well as reflective light in this case. It's not really sharp cutoff you are claiming. Rather the light are concernrated in two area"

    That's not the fault of projector technology, it's the fault of US headlight regulations. An e-code projector will have a nice, very even spread of light with a very sharp cutoff. Until recently the DOT mandated a headlight pattern that resulted in two hot spots, some other light scattered around and lots of light bleeding upwards to illuminate signs.
  • chiawchiaw Member Posts: 92
    that i did not know.
  • denver5357denver5357 Member Posts: 319
    This question and answer came from the car chat today on USAToday with their car expert, James Healey. A-hem.

    Naugatuck, CT: It seems more & more difficult to drive at night without encountering super glaring headlights. Are there Federal standards or other laws that limit the lumination power of vehicle lights? If not, there should be! Thanks.

    James R. Healey: Those icy-white lights are HID -- high-intensity discharge headlights, often also know as xenon (ZEE-non) lights, for the gas inside the assembly that starts the reaction that glows so brightly.

    The reason they seem so blinding is that the light the deliver is in the blue end of the color spectrum and that's harsh on the eye. Normal headlights put out illumination toward the red end of the spectrum and that's easier on the eye.

    Perversely, even though they're blinding you, HIDs are not always providing much help to the driver. Tests have shown that some high-quality, conventional halogen lights light up the road better. And HIDs either illuminate something or don't; you see it or it's in the dark. There's none of the sort-of fuzzy illumination of objects just out of reach of the headlight beam, the way you get with halogens. That so-called sharp cutoff of the HID beams is supposed to help prevent the problem you cite, but isn't wholly satisfactory.

    The gov't lighting standards mainly deal with minimums, not maximums. But the feds (National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, at www.nhtsa.dot.gov) are considering whether HID and other potential light distractions (aftermarket driving lights mounted too high on that truck following you, for instance)need a special set of rules.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I don't need them after all!

    chiaw almost had me convinced not to drive at night since I don't have them!

    I do get tired of getting blinded by them.
  • dirkworkdirkwork Member Posts: 210
    After the release of the new Honda I read some of the posts here. Interesting. Seems like a neat van, I guess the variable displacement is still causing some concern. Funny how Honda has to do that to get fuel economy.

    Being a cheap SOB my personal choice was a used Oldsmobile GLS van. Don't laugh. Read. It was $11k used, has 3 rows of leather seats, rear AC/heat and rear sound system (DVD was later models but I can add it at a car stereo place if we need it). Also has power door, ABS, Traction control, full 8 way power seats, trip computer with on the fly MPG and compass, built in air compressor, 16 alum wheels, etc. The olds with good tires handles very well.

    Does it compare to a new Honda or Toyota? Well, not too badly. I average 23mpg commuting in stop and go traffic with AC on. On the highway I get 26-27 even at speed. Everyone is comfortable in large american sized seats. The "outdated" pushrod engine has tons of torque and can easily light up the tires from stop if you wanted to take off traction control. No, its not like a sports car, but for the purpose of the van it works well enough. I will take the fuel economy advantaage for power I would only use occasionally.

    I would like the new stow seats, and more power would be cool, maybe a DVD and nav system, but none of these things are worth having a $400 a month van payment!

    People get all excited about crash ratings but this is by far the safest vehicle I've ever owned (based on ratings as well as perception) as even this old '98 has side air bags.

    For utility, if you don't want to eat deprecation and be saddled with a large car note, check used GM vans, they have horrible reasale and you can get a deal on a used one.

    DD
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Member Posts: 1,565
    Oh no, a voice of common sense on this board.

    This will never do!

    OK you guys, back to the discussion of which van has the biggest NAV screen, which is of almighty importance.

    (My tongue is firmly planted in my check, for those who cannot discern satire)
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