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Assuming there's a loan on the 2006, but not the 2003, the 2003 may actually be worth more.
You'd need to balance that with the fact that if you unload the '03, you'll have 2 cars on which you're making paymetns, while if the '03 is or will be paid off soon, you'd only have 1 car payment.
Did you owe anything on your trade? He might have "overpaid" you in order to cover what he had to pay off on your loan, if he had one. This is called "rolling up" and is done frequently when the customer is "upside down", meaning that he owes more on his trade than it's worth.
Sienna Limited 06 7 passanger, leather seats.
Option #1 with 6 CD player with JBL Surround Sound DVD.
Pair of Wireless Head phones.
Tire Locks.
Price: 35738 + Tax and Lic. 60 months with 0%. Nothing down. No trade in.
new car - valued at $35k
old car - valued at $20k
kbb on old car - $14k
payoff on old car - $9k
I hope the tax ramifications would have been the same if he valued my trad accurately and lowered the price of the new car.
Modern AWD is awesome. An old truck or Suburban 4X4 is not the same. 4X4 is brutish aplication of power that does get you going. AWD is Tactful distribution of engine power in a way that adds to stability, handling and safety.
I often pull along side stuck 4X4's (spinning a tire) and offer assistance. Their pride always causes them to decline. So I continue on my way through the same snow that got them stuck. Modern AWD is awesome. An old truck or Suburban 4X4 is not the same. 4X4 is brutish aplication of power that does get you going. AWD is Tactful distribution of engine power in a way that adds to stability, handling and safety.
I've driven both. No argument on an AWD being able to accelerate quicker. The problem is you really can't slow down any quicker with them(other then perhaps if you use the transmission to slow down.)
That's an interesting story on the cornering vs. the Honda FWD. Of course you were in different vehicles so you might have hit the corner just enough different then he did. I would think the Stability Control would have helped him out but obviously not.
My experience is if you're an aggressive driver AWD is nice. If you're a careful one FWD works just fine.
I have always owned FWD vehicles b/c, with the mileage I drive, the extra 2-3 mpg really adds up. I have never had a problem - with the exception of icy conditions - which AWD or 4x4 aren't much help with anyway (starting is only as good as your ability to stop).
What I do instead, to improve my odds, is I put moderately aggressive snow tires (Blizzak WS-50s) on the front drive wheels of my '04 Accord V-6 6 spd. Coupe.
I know - I should use 4, but I only use two, and I just don't drive like a jackass in bad weather. In nearly 250,000 miles of driving since I began doing this, I've never had an accident, never skidded out of control, and never had a spin or a tail spin out on me. I slow down, brake and accelerate more gently, and try to anticipate road conditions ahead of me and it works really well - I've never felt like I wasn't in total control of my vehicle.
I just got an '07 Odyssey EX in December and it seems to be "OK" in the limited snow we've had this winter, but I plan to put WS-50s on that too if I can get them in the right size either this winter or, at the latest, next fall. The Blizzak is a great tire b/c it is a relatively stiff snow-tire that dramatically enhances snow traction, but still has better than average dry road handling, wears fairly well over the long term, and makes only minimal snow-tire whine.
I realize that many may disagree with my strategy - and have valid reasons for doing so, but its worked well for me and my wife for over a quarter-million miles so far. :shades:
-FS
Either that, or a couple of trolls have made some bogus reviews on the Sienna. (I'm a Honda owner, so not Toyota biased).
Here's someone who rated it 2.5:
Comments: Handles like it is three times as heavy as it is, underpowered, interior could use some refinement. Overall unpleased.
Favorite Features: Nothing special about the Sienna.
Suggested Improvements: More power and fuel economy, improved handling, upgrade interior.
These are things that should be evident from a test drive (except maybe fuel economy).
I think it's a bogus review.
Suggested Improvements: More power and fuel economy
That would basically be a suggested improvement for about every vehicle on the planet, no? While we're at it, how about more quality fit & finish, DVD & NAV, but please lower the cost. Sheesh.
Do you mount those tires on your factory rims every fall and switch back to regulars in the spring or do you have a set of second rims?
I like the idea of winter tires, switching each spring and fall seems a bit of a hassle. However I have been considering getting chains for when the conditions do get testy.
Nice review, but I suppose we're both biased on the other end of the spectrum!
Haven't purchased a set for the new Odyssey yet and my only fear is that these wheels are so damn honkin' big they may not make one in that size. I did find 17' Blizzaks for my '04 Accord but I just haven't shopped for the Odyssey yet b/c we just got it in December and its been a mild winter.
The Odyssey drove fine, just not as smooth. I was actually more comfortable switching lanes in the Odyssey, but I'm not sure if it was mirror adjustment or visibility due to the van's construction. The seats didn't seem as comfortable to me, but I was more relaxed in driving and might have noticed the seats in the Sienna. The big disappointment in the Odyssey was that I hadn't remembered that the dash is black in all the vans. I love the slate green with olive, but the black in contrast with the olive is just so harsh. I can't believe I hadn't noticed that before. Superficial, I know, but I was hoping to absolutely fall in love with one over the other, and it just didn't happen.
Bottom line is that I feel like I need to drive them again for further comparision. I'm picking apart little things which means that both really are great vehicles and I'll be happy with whichever one I pick and am no longer comparing. I still wish I could fall in love, though.
That's begging for a line, but I'm at a loss. :surprise:
I chose a sagebrush pearl exterior for a honda van with the slate green interior... the interior color to hide more of the dirt the kids would churn up. that worked for a while, but my kids out did me and i soon admitted defeat.
my wife expects the interior gets clean by magic. i love her though.
i think the black on slate isn't harsh at all. what's wrong with you? (kidding) have you tried hypnosis? they can convince you to fall in love with just about anything, even that faux wood trim you hate if you're willing to seek their service. :shades:
but seriously, there's probably a way to undo the faux wood trim since it's only plastic. maybe a dealer would do that for you as a condition of the sale.
I'm curious to hear how others feel about driver's seat comfort? I probably would have purchased the Odyssey today if it weren't for the seat. It's just not that comfy to me.
Bought an Odyssey instead and seat comfort has not been an issue at all.
I'm just a bit bummed. I want the Ody to work for me, but I won't buy a car that I'm not comfortable in. I'm liking the Sienna more over time, but it's about $2400 more for the pkg. I would get.
I wouldn't buy a car I wasn't sure I could be comfortable in, however, so get the vehicle that suits you best.
However, on 2007 Sienna, when I stepped on the gas pedal and tachometer went over around 2500 RMP, I heard a new kind of noise added into the louder humming of the engine. The cabin is very quiet, even in acceleration. That made the sudden appearance of high-pitched noise more startling. In normal cruise, the engine hums in a low-pitched melodious tune. The repeated intrusion by this high-pitched "ZZZZZ" noise made me concerned about the durability of the Toyota engine.
I paid extra attention to the engine noise of Honda Odyssey. At low RPM, it hums almost same as Toyota Sienna. Under hard acceleration, the hum grow louder, without any change in pitch.
Anyone has the same experience?
if it were me, i'd ask the salesman to try another sienna to see if it exhibits the same sound under the same conditions.
That's ridiculous and surely not even true. That's one of the wildest claims I've ever heard of.
Think about it - they are weightless the whole time, so seat comfort doesn't matter a whole lot!
In fact, if a van uses the same seats, they're pretty much be optimized for weightless conditions, and the van would have horrible seating!
-juice
Still, having said this, I have a hard time believing NASA went to the Sienna for seating design.
OK, done with my geek comment for the day... :P
Steve
And I don't think even the 3.5l accelerates like a rocket ship, so let's not even go there....
-juice
The NASA reference was most likely refering to the type of foam used in the seats. Its a layering method where multiple layers of different density foam are used. A high density foam o the bottom followed by a lesser density then a low density on top. What you get is a seat that not only absorbs impact (I've seen an egg dropped from thirty feet into 3 inches and not break) but a seat that is very comfortable for LONG periods of time. The different layers eliminate pressure points. The type of foams used can get stiff in cold weather so initial comfort during the first 15 minutes may not be that impressive.
I sit in Jets for a living. Often a maufacturer will provide a foam based on someone sitting on it for a few minutes. After 2 hours in the cockpit (on this 1.5 inch pad)my butt would be so sore I couldn't focus . I then found a shop that replaced the foam with NASA method foam and with the same 1.5 inch thickness got a seat I can sit comfortably for 4-5 hours at a stretch.
For the car that claims to have NASA foam: Try sitting in the seat for twenty minutes (read the brochure, watch a DVD, or even drive around). Nothing sucks more than being butt sore on a road trip.
What I find silly is the reference to NASA, as if they were seating experts, especially given astronauts rarely, if ever, actually sit down under normal gravity circumstances.
So the reference to NASA is simply absurd. Not the seats, mind you, the reference.
-juice
I'm sure this issue has been addressed before, but I'd appreciate any input or links to pertinent articles.
thank you
I'd get it if you live in Colorado or Vermont, but I wouldn't call it a necessity south of the Mason-Dixon line.
-juice
I'm in Wisconsin, some years a lot of snow, some years not. We also get our share of ice storms.
thanks,
seven2
Traction/Stability control mandatory (as you've already noted).
-juice
There have been many complaints about the run-flat tires on which the AWD Siennas roll - mostly about abysmal treadlife.
If this is the deciding issue for you, yes, the AWD has some added benefit. Just how much will vary by locale and use.
Yeah they're nice once in a while, but you give up a little mileage. I'd venture to say driving cautiously with a front wheel drive will get you 99% of the places a 4 wheel drive will. The 1% of the time you can't you probably shouldn't be on the road anyway.
However good points that it depends on where you live. If you have to climb a snowy mountain every day to get home, you should give some serious thought to AWD.
Yesterday a brand new Acura TL got stuck on my block, going up a slight incline, not steep at all. Pretty pathetic. FWD and stability control didn't help things.
I'm sure it was performance tires that bogged him down, but it was kinda funny. Some guy in a Jeep gave him a push before I could get to him with a bag of sand (traction aid).
Good tires, maybe some cat litter or sand as traction aid in the trunk, and practice (probably the most important), and you should be fine.
-juice
The GM vans had about the most uncomfortable backs you could possibly imagine.
Also, I don't like the vinyl arm rests, they look decidedly cheap. The seats themselves are fine.
-juice
But...it lacked a lot of safety equipment that the segment leaders make standard. No SAC at that price, the 2nd row windows don't open, and it generally felt a generation older than the Odyssey, Sienna, and even the Sedona/Entourage twins.
Price was great, though.
-juice
Back when my wife and I were looking a few years ago, the Stow and Go seats WERE insanely uncomfortable. When we tried out the 07, though, it was clear they are using a different type of cushion. It is actually now the tempurpedic stuff, and is comfortable.
That said, the seats being smallish isn't a huge deal for us because both of our kids will be in booster seats for the next 5-7 years. And if we still have the Town and Country after that point, the seat will fit a then-10 year old just fine.
When I said the seats were the most comfortable of any minivan we tested, I was actually referring to the front seats. Since the rest of the van is pretty much reserved for kid use, I didn't even think to differentiate. Sorry about that.
But...it lacked a lot of safety equipment that the segment leaders make standard. No SAC at that price, the 2nd row windows don't open, and it generally felt a generation older than the Odyssey, Sienna, and even the Sedona/Entourage twins.
I have to be honest, I don't know what "SAC" is. I know that our 22k Town and Country has airbags all around, even one for the driver's knees which I thought was unusual. It also has traction control, ABS, and solid crash test scores.. I'm not sure what else is really that important??
Also, I don't personally WANT the second row windows to open. In my Maxima, I keep the auto windows locked at all times anyway! If my 3 YO had his way, he would spend his entire time in the car opening and closing the power window. He's FASCINATED by it. In fact I even had to pull over once and get his little arms back inside and get the window back up because I'd forgotten to lock them, and he refused to get his arms out so I could roll them back up. Toddler temper tantrums, gotta love 'em.
I'm sure it's "different strokes" time, but the T&C is the only minivan we could find for the price that had all 3 power doors. The Honda and Toyota required junk like leather and sunroof which we didn't want to get all 3 power doors.
I did check out the Kia van, and I don't understand what the fuss is about. The whole thing just felt like junk. Not that I would have bought one anyway, since I have no desire to spend my life in a dealership waiting for repairs.
Also, you forget that Chrysler IS the segment leader in minivans, and always has been.
Having not seen one on the roads yet, I didn't realize they were in dealers now, or I would have said "last generation seats were lacking" in the comfort department. Sorry for the misinformed post!
When did they hit dealers?
Traction control isn't worth $300 to me, STABILITY control on the other hand is something I wish I had on my 4-cylinder Accord (only available on V6 models at the moment). Traction control helps you start in slick conditions by applying brakes to the wheels spinning due to lack of traction. We had it in our 2000 Odyssey.
Stability control helps maintain control of the car in already-moving situations, preventing spins, fishtailing, under/oversteer, and rollovers.
The one I was talking about, a left over 2006 Dodge Grand Caravan SXT, didn't have them. Other ones, priced higher ($26k or so), did, but the value equation eroded. This particular dealer had a very wide gap between the models with and without SAC.
I totally "get" you on the 2nd row windows, but having the option to keep them locked, or to open them, on that rare occasion where you spot a deer on the side of the road and the kids ask "WHERE?! WHERE?!" so they can get an unobstructed look.
I feel your pain with the power tailgate, believe me. No chance we can get one in a Honda or Toyota for our target budget.
Hyundai/Kia make SAC standard so it's just easier to shop. What's the fuss about? Well, Edmunds picked a Sedona 2nd place in their van comparo, and it was the quickest to 60 and the most fuel efficient and had the best brakes.
The Dodges would be a good value at $22k, sure. Especially if you got everything you mentioned.
-juice