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I just drove the 2007 Toyota Camry LE with a 4 cyl and then I drove a Buick Lucerne right after.
There is no doubt the Camry is better in performance. The 4 cylinder was a lot more peppy then the Lucerne. No one can say the Lucerne outperforms Toyota it just ain't so.
http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060213/SUB/60210064&SearchI- D=73238475919285#
The Lucerne is too impressive not to deserve a second look. the Idiots at GM made a huge mistake in not giving it a base of at least the 3.9L, but even so, the V8 is a formidable sedan, and the V6 will defenetly match a 4cyl toyota.
Still, that camry is probably 200 or more ilbs lighter than lucerne. I do not see a point to this comparo.
The V6 is slow no doubt, once again thats GM's mistake and I hope they rectify it soon.
for anyone in a cold climate, the lucerne also has heated washer fluid that neither competitor has, I wonder if any owners out there have used this feature?
My opinion is that few looking at standard Camrys or Lucernes care much about 0-60 or excessive HP. However both vehicles in their base engines better have enough pep to give a feeling of safety in performance. We have been here before and both do have plenty of Ummpp for almost all of the market they are after. If you want more HP the uplevel engines have plenty. If you want more go look at a performance vehicle.
Does the 4 cyl Camry have that much horsepower and torque or it is just geared so low that it gets a good 0-60 time? It must run out of steam at 80. My 3800 in leSabres is still going fine at 80; lots of torque left. Just need an invisibility shield from radar and laser to travel at that speed.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
It wasn't that long ago that a car -- any car -- within a few hp of 200 ponies had some serious muscle. Now people complain that a car has 'only' 197 hp and more than 200 flb torque. Get real.
I drove the Lucerne v8 and the Avalon touring back to back. The lucerne had much better oomph off the line and a smoother transmission. The avalon really hauled when you gave it a couple seconds to wind up. But I personally find the quick power of the v8 more useful in real-world driving.
But everything is relative, isn't it? i learned to drive on a rusted VW van with, what?, 68 hp and a top speed of maybe 75.
I currently own an olds 88 with the 3800 v6 and the thing is an absolute rock. 175,000 miles on it now and the only things replaced: spark plugs (once), belts, a water pump at 155,000. That's all. It still gets 30-plus on the highway, it easily passes emissions tests, it can run at 90 mph without breathing hard and, most importantly, it has never ever failed to start or run smoothly. Will it win drag races with a Corvette? No. Do I care? No.
Loren
Lucerne has 197 hp and 227 torque.
Lucerne weighs 3764, Camry weighs 3307.
I don't think the comparisons to a 4 Cyl Camry have any merit. I've owned 4 Lexus LS400/430's and a Toyota Tercel and Corolla.
My point is: Toyota isn't perfect. Lexus service in the Boston area is one of the worst I have encountered in a long time. I used to drive a 1989 Buick Park Avenue and it was a fantastic car with great dealer support.
All this talk of Toyota value is overrated. My Park Ave never broke down and when there was a problem it wasn't that expensive to fix it. I just paid $1,700 on a new Power Steering rack for my '92 Lexus LS400 with 97K on it..I've had to nearly sue the Lexus dealer because of fraudulent repairs. Lexus Corporate was no help.
I bet that repair would have been half the $$$ on a Buick. My son's new 2006 Corolla rattles like crazy. The tires are Goodyear Integritys' which got some of the worst ratings on TireRack. Not very impressed with Toyota these days.
The Buick Lucerne is a great car. I've seen them in person and am very impressed. It is a much better value than the Avalon with eye catching styling. I can't think of a single car below $35K that has a V-8. I've driven the ES330 many times and noticed the jerky transmission right away. The new interior of the ES350 is nothing special.
Is the Lucerne perfect? No, but what car in this segment is? All I can say this is one of GM's best cars in a very long time.
-Sam
Perhaps the Lucerne, with a V8, will pick up some additional customer once the Caddy DTS goes RWD. Seems like there are those that prefer FWD, or feel it is better in snow country. Anyone here cross shopped the DTS and the Lucerne, then bought the Buick? The Buick is well liked in China, and if there are no more FWD big cars of luxury in the Cadillac line, those GM loyalist will be buying Buick. They name may just be saved, when many thought it to be the next to go. Now Pontiac, and its performance car image, one could say could also fit as well in the Chevy line. Hummm?
-Loren
As for the Lucerne, if GM is in business, the car has a good reliability record for two years, and I could find a good used V8 for under $20K, I would consider one. Or a DTS. The Lexus line up seems overpriced to me. Nothing too interesting in the low end line-up by Lexus.
-Loren
Sounds like a vast right wing conspiracy of some sort. Someone needs to look into this. :shades: CR members are buying different cars than the rest of America :confuse: While CR members could, in theory, possibly see the automobile in a different way than the rest of humanity, the questions are directed to problem areas on the car. The cars are not pre-sorted in any way which the people are buying. I would have to say, unless someone did cook the books, Consumer Reports is the best source for data on these cars. As for the Lucerne, it is new and thus no one knows what quirks, if any, are in this auto. It could be anywhere from perfection to awful. JD Powers may be able to tell ya if the car has had few problems reported within a few days, or months. The engines have a pretty good track record as of late, so they will likely not be a major source of problems. Wait a couple years for CR data, or chance it. The engine is traditional and the transmission has been around for years, so one could surmise that the Lucerne should be better than average for reliability, based on parts. But no one knows for sure about the car as a whole. It looks to be solid in appearance. Hopefully for customers of Buick, it is indeed sound.
A betting man would say this car will rate average to above average, even for CR owners. Lucerne has its good points to it.
Loren
Yeah it's only the best in it's class. Every Lexus interior is special. GM interiors are normally awful.
"It is a much better value than the Avalon with eye catching styling."
The Avalon looks just as good maybe better. I doubt the Luceren's resale will match the Avalons. Your point on repair costs are well taken though and the Lucerne looks to be a very good effort from GM. I might give it a look even though I'm barely into my 30's, not 65 like a normal Buick buyer.
"Yeah it's only the best in it's class. Every Lexus interior is special. GM interiors are normally awful. "
Get caught up with the times. I would like you to name 5 terrible GM interiors, not including models being replaced this year like the trucks.
Please check out pics of the Lucerne, lacrosse, enclave, Vue, GTO, Escalade/Tahoe, Impala, DTS, STS, cobalt, torrent, 9-5, 9-7x, etc. before talking about how bad GM's interiors are. The ES350 has a nice interior, but that doesnt mean GM's interiors are bad. I think the DTS' interior is comparable to the new ES, but not the Lucerne. Lexus makes great interiors, but when you check out some of toyota's more affordable offerings like the Corolla, Rav4, Sequoia, Highlander and FJ Cruiser you will Toyota interiors arent all they are cracked up to be. Fake wood can only take you so far. I would take a modern GM interior over a dull Toyota interior any day. Only exception would be the new camry.
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
As to interiors, it looks like a good job was done on the Lucerne, and Impala, but the Cobalt looks cheap to me.
-Loren
The interior discussion is also something which makes people look forward to driving their car. I know I would really look forward to a car with a nice interior, such as the new Impala, compared to the old Impala. Or the LeSabre compared to the Lucerne.
You are right, the interior of the new Avalon is a mess. I do not find it attractive at all. Acres and acres of fake metallic trim. The little doors are not merely annonying, they are also subject to malfunction: jamming, failing to open, etc. Just check the Avalon board for stories of replacement of the "little doors." An ergonomic error. The interior of the Lucerne is far, far better.
Turn by turn nav should enable you to get directions from OnStar downloaded to your car, and you will be prompted when to make turns. Won't need to look at screens, and if you get off course, it will tell you automatically how to get back on course. Also, I believe that OnStar in general will allow you to find the nearest restaurant or gas station by just hitting the button and asking the rep, although I haven't tried that yet to know for certain.
rake2, sorry you did not get the new system. No one should have told you your car had it. It was meant to be an interim intro. I can only believe, since I was not there, that the new components were just not ready until March. IF they could have they would have had this new system in at start of production. Heck they would have put it in many other cars if they could. There is always a stating point for every new technology. Maybe they should have waited for the 2007 fall intro?
If you want a preview of what TBT will give you, go to http://tinyurl.com/zwfj4 and download the 15 minute video for V-com voice navigation system. I believe (educated guess) that it uses the same database that TBT uses. If so, the capabilities should be similar. You will be impressed.