Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread

ace35 · June 2006

LOL, yea the 7 series is a little overdone (putting it nicely) but with the restyle they kinda toned it down a little.

ace35 · June 2006

Will the altima offer ESC at all ?

m1miata · June 2006

The Fusion and Milan are pretty sharp is style, as is the Altima which captured the Passat look, only with better tail lights. Yes I like the tail lights, and I am fifty something now.

So if ya wanted a sharp looking car with a V6 is it on this list:
Azera
Camry
Accord
Altima
Fusion/Milan
Sonata
Impala
Malibu (yes, they call it that in name only)
Subaru Legacy

backy · June 2006

A glaring omission IMO is the Mazda6--one of the best-looking mid-sized cars I think.

louiswei · June 2006

If I want a SHARP looking car with a V6 I'll be willing to spend some extra cash and go one segment up: entry-level luxury sedan.

IMO, cars in the midsize segment will offer you a decent V6 with an average look (give or take a little) which get you from point A to point B without any drama.

I think I can generalize the midsize sedans into 3 groups:

1. CamCord: Camry, Accord (pretty obvious here)
2. The Sporty Ones: Mazda6, Altima, Legacy
3. Every Body else: The rest...

:shades:

choe13 · June 2006

the 2006 mazda 6 updgrade is relaly nice i agree(looks more carved, love the clear tail light, flatter front end). Before the upgrade it had style but something was quite not cohesive about it.

Backy would you agree?

The worst upgrade i've seen is the accord in terms of exterior looks. The ugly rear but was not pretty but it worked better with the way the front light were shaped than the recent ultra vanilla style lights

ace35 · June 2006

I think you can slot the 06 Sonata into the #1 category.

backy · June 2006

I liked the looks of the Mazda6 before the changes for '06. I especially like the 5-door.

I agree the back-end change on the Accord is not great. Maybe a little better than the old styling though. There is something about the squareness of the back end now that doesn't jive with the rest of the car. It's as if different design teams did the front 2/3 of the car and the back 1/3.

I do think the Sonata is one of the best-looking mid-sized cars. It is also one of the blandest-looking mid-sized cars. There was a study done awhile back about what kinds of faces most people find "beautiful". They are the so-called "blurry" faces, that is, nondescript without any stand-out features. That is why I think cars like the Sonata are pleasing to the eye--clean lines, but nothing to jar the senses. Cars like that may not get a strong emotional response on their styling, but it's likely few will find them offensive enough to strike them off their "consider" list. For example, the Fusion is that way for me. A little too "hey look at me, I have a Gillette razor in my grille!" for me.

louiswei · June 2006

I think you can slot the 06 Sonata into the #1 category.

Uh...NO.

Not yet at least.

bobad · June 2006

I gotta say I agree. For pure looks, I slightly prefer the Mazda6 to all the rest. But what do I know, I also like the styling of the FMZ and 07 Camry too. Awww what the heck? I like the styling of all of them. My least favorite styling is the Altima, but I don't dislike it.

ace35 · June 2006

Uh...NO.

Not yet at least.

Well it was a try. Sorry Sonata maybe in 10 yrs when you earn a good reputation. LOL

louiswei · June 2006

Well it was a try. Sorry Sonata maybe in 10 yrs when you earn a good reputation.

Agree.

bhmr59 · June 2006

Are you raising the bar? Many posters have said they want 10 years of reliability before they will accept the Sonata.

The various rating "experts" and the car owning public have all given Sonata very good ratings for 5 or 6 years.

Remember the Accord went, in the public's eye, from a mediocre model when first introduced to a great car in about 10 years.

I guess the question is how long does it take to establish a car's reliability? I'm thinking it should take less time now than 20 years ago based on improved technology in designing and building today's cars.

backy · June 2006

Yes, the bar gets raised every year. That is because in the eyes of some folks, Hyundai will never be an acceptable alternative to a Honda or Toyota.

Look at the Altima. The first generation was a decent car, a low-cost knock off of the J30. The second generation was, well, forgettable. The third generation was the first that directly challenged the Camcord. Yet no one is saying, wait 10 years before the Altima can be taken seriously.

ace35 · June 2006

I guess the question is how long does it take to establish a car's reliability? I'm thinking it should take less time now than 20 years ago based on improved technology in designing and building today's cars.

I couldnt agree with you more. I feel like people today are more demanding on a vehicle, so the sonata doesnt need 20 years like the cam/cords of the 80's to establish itself. If its reliable for 5 yrs/100k miles of continuous service, in this day and age, it will be a good vehicle. Even the prev. gen Sonata's have gained a reputation for reliabilty so im sure the current gen. will do the same.

choe13 · June 2006

YEah if the fusion lost the grille and had normal red tailights, i think that it would look that much better. Other than that, the car like the sonata flows very well.

elroy5 · June 2006

I guess the question is how long does it take to establish a car's reliability? I'm thinking it should take less time now than 20 years ago based on improved technology in designing and building today's cars.

Why would you think it should take less time now, than 20 years ago? There are 1000 times more parts that can malfunction now, than there were then. More sensors, more electronics, more airbags. Hell, 20 years ago there were no airbags. And higher tech, means higher repair costs.

Long term reliability may be more important now, than ever.IMO

wolverinejoe80 · June 2006

mazda 6 is my least favorite. it looks cheap to me. i would rather drive mazda3 than 6. that's just me.

also, i hate the new camry especially the front. i thought it was different and fresh when it came out, but now i hate the front so much! its yaris times 1.5 and i really believe toyota gambled too much on the grill. it's kinda sad because hong kong version looks great.

i personally can't wait till how the new accord will look like. the current gen is another huge disappointment, but the new one should be a looker.

m1miata · June 2006

Dang, I like the razor grill, though when you see one in your rear view mirror, you can imagine being run down by a huge Schick razor!!! A little frightening! I guess perhaps a car with a bangle butt would scare the razor monster away.

I like the looks of the Fusion and Milan.

-Loren

goodegg · June 2006

Not sure why you feel someone can't 'hate' a car, or a manufacturer....or even doubt them....it's OK for people to have their own opinions. You force feeding them Hyundai Hyundai Hyundai probably will turn them off even more.

Its just a good car priced right.

joe97 · June 2006

It's called automation.

backy · June 2006

One thing to consider is that the quality processes used so successfully by the Japanese automakers (from an American source!) are now being applied by others, such as the Koreans. These processes are augmented by computer-assisted engineering and manufacturing technologies that have come a long way in the past 20 years. The highly automated, computer-controlled factories of today did not exist 20 years ago. That is how companies like Toyota, Honda, and Hyundai are able to continue to make improvements in quality while cutting costs. It is also how companies like Hyundai are able to produce high quality, reliable vehicles without taking 20 years to figure out how to do it. The fact that they use some of the highest quality and most reliable vehicles as their design benchmarks helps accelerate progress too. (Who could Toyota or Honda benchmark 20 years ago? Themselves, maybe.)

bhmr59 · June 2006

Why would you think it should take less time now, than 20 years ago?

From the post you are questioning, "I'm thinking it should take less time now than 20 years ago based on improved technology in designing and building today's cars."

m1miata · June 2006

Yes, and a great one for handling they say! The Mazda6, if found at the right price, and if reliable, should be somewhere on the list of cars to consider. I can not get a handle of how reliable the car is. One year it is Mazda is bad, then the next they are OK. Not sure they are ever tops though, except the MazdaMX-5 Miata, which I know is a good one.

bhmr59 · June 2006

Actually, backy, I was referring to the improvements Toyota & Honda made over a ten year period, starting 30 years ago, mid-70's to the mid 80's.

So the points you make are even stronger if "30 years" is substituted for "20 years" in your post # 4174.

elroy5 · June 2006

Honda was making great cars from the start (even the first ones were reliable). They just had to start making them larger, and more powerful, for the Americans (big V8 car lovers) to buy them. Hyundai started out making junk, and will have to change that image now. It won't happen overnight.

Honda has never had a "bad reputation". Hyundai has.

louiswei · June 2006

Agree.

Keeping this up, they'll just turn more and more people away from Hyundai. Everybody have their own opinion, they can hate/love a car all they want and don't need someone to tell them what to think.

I said this before and I'll say it again...Hyundai needs to earn its reputation/respect just like the Honda/Toyota did in the 70's and 80's (or even the 60's). It's just a process they'll need to go through and if they want to play with the big boys they better suck it up and take it.

Rome isn't build in one day, nor does Hyundai!!!

pat · June 2006

Folks, please keep your comments about the cars - not each other and not owners of this or that brand.

backy · June 2006

I was around (and driving) when Honda and Toyota got their start in the U.S., and back then they had the reputation for making crude boxes that rusted out when you looked crosswise at them. They improved a lot with each generation, however. Hyundai had one model that was really bad--the original Excel. If you and others want to condemn Hyundai for a few more decades because of this one false start, go ahead. I choose to take full advantage of present reality, with the Sonata et. al.

bhmr59 · June 2006

In the early to mid-70's Honda was a cheap car, not inexpensive, cheap. A friend had a little yellow Civic, another had a gold/beige Accord. Both were hatchbacks with a crummy automatic (Hondomatic?-it may have benn a 2 speed). Both developed early rust problems, rode terribly, not solid, all kinds of rattles, etc. But they were economy cars of that time. And in about 10 years both models became real good cars. Honda didn't have much of a reputation at the time, so it could not have a "bad rep.", at least in the north east. Maybe Honda was better known out west (think back to distribution 30 years ago).

I was saying it Honda and Toyota could make the improvements they accomplished in a 10 year period from the mid 70's to mid 80's, people should recognize that Hyundai can do likewise today, especially with present day technology. (But, please don't say Honda made great cars from the start. Honda wasn't up to GM, Ford or Chrysler at the time. I don't recall anyone having a Toyota back then so I can't comment on Toyota.)

elroy5 · June 2006

I'm sure it took more than just one car to give Hyundai a bad image. And it will take more than one car to get them out of it too.

backy · June 2006

Well, it was a really, really bad car. :sick: At a time when other Asian automakers were already good and the bar had been set. No such bar in the '70s when Honda and Toyota got their start.

Yes, it will take more than one car to build Hyundai's reputation. Like the pre-'06 Sonata (Gen 3 was not a bad car, just not a great car); Accent (starting in '95, a really nice little car for its time); Elantra (especially the Gen 3 starting in '01, although the Gen 2 wasn't that bad either); Santa Fe; Tiburon; and all the "24x7" vehicles starting in late 2004: Tucson, Sonata, Azera, Accent, Entourage, Santa Fe, Elantra; and the new models to come e.g. Mesa and Equus.

pat · June 2006

remove posts that are about each other and not about the cars.

This is getting very old, folks.

bobad · June 2006

Its just a good car priced right.

Thank you. When I go car shopping, that's exactly what I'm looking for. No glitz, no glamor, no $500 per month notes, no ego, no sports car ride to damage my kidneys. Just a good car priced right. That's the essence of what the mid sized sedan genre should be. Yet some people try to stuff them with NAV and every gizmo in existance, make a luxury road car out of them. That doesn't make sense to me. If I wanted a comfortable road car, the Sonata, Camry, Accord, FMZ, Mazda6, Altima... all fall far short. I would much prefer a big Buick, Caddy,etc for that purpose.

bobad · June 2006

Well it was a try. Sorry Sonata maybe in 10 yrs when you earn a good reputation. LOL

It's entirely possible to turn build quality around from horrible to excellent in 1 year. However, you are right that it takes a few years to improve an entire car. Hyundai is deadly serious about surpassing their competition in quality and price. The Sonata is close as it stands right now, and rapidly gaining. Take a peek underneath a Sonata, Accord, and Camry. The Sonata's suspension components are undeniable proof that Hyundai is committed to winning the quality war.

imidazol97 · June 2006

>Honda has never had a "bad reputation

The Accords had problems in 2003. Read the Accord problems discussion that's closed because it was replaced by small groups of years since all the years together were collecting a large list of problems.

The transmissions in Odysseys? Accords? Pilots? Pilots have a list of problems. Odysseys have noise from driveline or something...

beantown · June 2006

My neighbors have three cars in their stable: a Camry, Accord and Mazda6 (all less than 5 years old). If that doesn't speak to how competitive this class is, when one family can't decide on a clear winner, I don't know what does.

mtnman1 · June 2006

My neighbors have three cars in their stable: a Camry, Accord and Mazda6 (all less than 5 years old). If that doesn't speak to how competitive this class is, when one family can't decide on a clear winner, I don't know what does.

I can't understand anyone that would limit their choices to one particular Brand. How boring can that be? I like to look at all options in a certain price point that suit my needs in a vehicle. I know there are people out there that are so closed minded that they may limit their choice to Honda only for instance. That's too bad for them or at least narrow minded IMHO.

ontop · June 2006

I would much prefer a big Buick, Caddy,etc for that purpose.

Ew - a Buick. Let me guess. You're over 75 years old. You'll fit right in at Hardees for breakfast.

elroy5 · June 2006

I can't understand anyone that would limit their choices to one particular Brand. How boring can that be?

Two of my friends bought new cars about the same time I did. James bought a Nissan Altima, Dwayne bought a Toyota Camry, and I bought a Honda Accord. They were very unhappy with their cars after about 5 years (always in the shop). I was very happy with my car, and kept it for 12 years. When I decided to buy a new car, it was going to be another Accord. If you had my experience, you would have too. Call me boring if you want, I will stick with what works for me.

The 92 Accord was a totally different car than the 03 Accord I have now. So it's not like I bought another car exactly like the one I had before. The only thing the two cars share is Honda quality. After 12 great years with a car, you don't just forget about it, and try something else. I would call that looking for trouble.

bhmr59 · June 2006

I thought "mtnman1" was making a general statement, not aimed at any one specifically. With all the improvements that manufacturers have made in the last few years I think it is wise to look at what is available. Good past experience may well sway a buyer's decision. And that's good.

I noticed you talked about friends who had purchased a Camry and an Altima. You said they had a lot of problems. Have you talked about Camry & Altima the same way you have offered opinions about the Sonata? Have you had a friend who owned a Sonata and had the same bad experiences your friends had with Camry & Altima? Or are your stated opinions based on real old information?

scape2 · June 2006

If and when you shop for a car put the Fusion SEL V6 on your list. Find a road with some twistys and you will come out of the car smiling. The confidence this car exudes is incredible. Next, take a look underneath the Fusion. You will be very surprised at what you see.. Go ahead, its only a testdrive, its free!
Seen the latest JD powers? Fusion/Milan ranked high for fit/finish and quality.. :shades:

m1miata · June 2006

Did you drive the Mazda6 too? And the Mazda3? Yeah, a test drive of a FusionV6 would be a good idea. Last time at the Ford dealership, I test drove the V6 Mustang - not terribly impressed. Will try a Fusion some day. They should lengthen the warranty and make side air bags standard. As far as ESC standard, not sure. Never had a car sideways, and I have driven lots of California curves. And I do not have anti-lock brakes. Never hit anything .... yet in some 36+ years of driving. As long as they work, and do not need replacing in a few years, anti-lock is OK. Heard of some needing to be replaced. I would think they should be a ten year item. And it may cost more to change pads, I don't know. Is there something different on servicing anti-lock brakes? All this techno stuff going on, I wonder if the collector car for the future is going to be all too expensive? Thought about getting a V8 2004 or older Mustang. The old fox body antique may be the least expensive future car to own for driving or car shows. I can see me now, and even older guy, talking to kids about the car. This car has a cable throttle, and no there is no electric assist steering, and yes you pull that thing there for the lights

Good ol' solid axle too. This is simple, a simple RWD car.

Now I drifted off. Sorry. The Fusion may be a good mix of sport, looks, ride, and economy. Looks good parked next to a sports car

-Loren

gefilte · June 2006

when toyota was introducing its camry, ford was pushing its Tempo. when honda was introducing its Accord, chevrolet was announcing the new Cavalier.when datsun was intriducing its Stanza (Altima) chrysler was promoting its aspen. So please dont tell me how good the Fusion Impala , Charger line is. the only reason these cars exist is because the Japanese beat the good ole' u s of a at their own game. the tortoise has won the race. to bad america.next time, get off of your rear end a little sooner.

driverdm · June 2006

Sorry to change the subject from the normal Sonata, Hyundai, Sonata, methodology but as others have indicated, it has gotten very old and boring.

Has anyone sat in the VW Passat? I was discussing it with a co-worker today. Though reliability is in question, it seems you get a whole lot for your money. They have a lot of nice features in it as well as gadgetry and the base line engine isn't a slutch either, delivering 200hp and being lighter than most cars in its segment. I have considered buying one before. I am not too sure on the styling though. It is kind of bland, though perhaps with a slight 1 inch drop and bigger rims it may turn into the prom queen.

choe13 · June 2006

New passat is very disappointing exteriorly. The older passat has a better touch. I'm sure its a fine car though for its price otherwise.

Its a very conservative car, not like maxima not even like the acura tl, but i know alot of people like it because of its excellent interior and quiet smooth drive.

driverdm · June 2006

Also, please with no comparisons to the Sonata, what do you all think of the Saturn Aura? The inside looks really really nice though the production version of the outside seems strangely bland to me. I think the concept did the car better justice.

badgerfan · June 2006

Don't forget Taurus kicked everyones butt for quite a few years. You can selectively rag on any manufacturer if you have selective amnesia.

Fact is the early Accords and Camries were rustbuckets after a few years. I recall a coworker who bought a first generation Accord in the 1970's. He raved about the car, but the story changed a few years later, when he was spending a fortune on expensive replacement parts. If I recall correctly, he even had to have extensive body repair just to keep the car structurally safe-the corrosion wasn't just cosmetic.

What does that have to do with today's model choices? Absolutely nothing, except that you cannot judge a manufacturer by what it was building 20, 10, or in some cases even 5 years ago.

badgerfan · June 2006

Per Edmund's specifications, curb weight of VW Passat with the 2.0T is 3305 pounds, which puts it about the same weight as the others in this class. With the V-6 it weighs 3576 lbs, which is getting porky for this class.

Also VW tends to be somewhat pricey and quality/reliability is indeed still iffy for VW.

louiswei · June 2006

What does that have to do with today's model choices? Absolutely nothing, except that you cannot judge a manufacturer by what it was building 20, 10, or in some cases even 5 years ago.

It has everything to do with today's model choices. It shows that Honda and Toyota learned from their mistakes and produce better cars year after year. It also shows how incompetent the US auto manufactures are when they were met with serious challengers whom are able to beat them at their own game. Why did the big 3 prosper in the 50's, 60's and even 70's? BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO COMPETITION!

Since I am on this topic, let's think why the big 2.5 did fairly well in the 90's. Well, my first guess will be the SUV. But what happened to them ever since? Because the imports caught up with this SUV wave and produce even better models. WOW, the history has just repeated itself a decade or 2 later.

Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread

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