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Hyundai Azera vs Toyota Avalon vs Ford Taurus vs Chevrolet Impala
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I have no doubt that the average is closer to 4 or 5 years. However, I also have little doubt that it IS based primarily on tiring of a car and/or getting seduced by the new ones. If that weren't the case, then *surely* the foreign-car owners would all be keeping hteir vehicles for 10+ years, right?
Based on real reliability statistics (CR type of things), however, and to feed your apparent appetite for something to 'discuss', if your do want to drive something for 10 years, it should probably be a 'Japanese' brand name - and it has been that way for a lot longer than that....
I prefer to based it upon my OWN experience (and that of my brothers, who own the foreign cars). That way, at least, I can be assured that the vehicles are being maintained properly by people who care and know how to do it and can afford to do it.
Clearly, I have a much smaller database to work with . . . but I feel the fact that I know how the vehicles were treated offsets this.
I would think the average would be under 4 years when you take into account how many 2 year leases are out there and how many people just trade in after a few years.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Probably so. And for those people, resale value becomes very important.
The ironic thing, though, is that they *think* they're being so frugal by buying cars with high resale values, when they'd actually save more money by keeping the car 8 to 10 years.
Roland
If you are a long time holder of a car, the extended warranty like Hyundai's 100,000 mile ten year bumper to bumper at about $1000.00 makes good sense.
You only pay for tires, brakes, wiper blades and normal maintainence items , such as oil change, alignment and wheel rotation and balance.
If your payment on a 5 year note is $325.00 then your loan amount was in the $17K range ($16,810.81 with a 6% rate), if you put $5K down on the car then the price of the car was just above $20K (without TTL). Its not going to be worth $15-20K after 5 years. That $325 a month could be enough to buy a brand new car for cash if invested properly.
and when you consider the escalating cost of the cars on a year to year basis, it really does seem to come out a wash..
That may have held true in the past but these days most cars should get at least 150K miles with few problems. My car at about 140K has had only one problem that would have cost about one car payment to fix if I had to pay for it, and that was at well over 100K miles.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
4 years whether I paid the extra grand or not. Car probelms also tend to be age related, making those extended warranties even more impractical.
Does anybody out there have any idea the average miles driven/year? Somehow just can't imagine driving only 10k/year, and do have several friends that have gotten 'in trouble' with leases but they too find they can not adhere to such limits. It would seem to me that it would be increasingly more difficult to justify the costs of any NEW car, if I'm either not going to use it for what it is intended or I'm not 'allowed' to per the terms of some silly lease contract.
Well, one could always try BUYING the vehicle.
Average car is driven aprox. 12,000 miles per year.
I disagree. My son just traded in a 2001 gmc pickup
( 5 1/2 years old ) and got 12 grand for it. Surely a well maintained flagship car like the Avalon would bring in at least 3 grand more than that if not more. After all, that's one of Toyotas selling points...reliability and higher resale value.
"That $325 a month could be enough to buy a brand new car for cash if invested properly."
That may or may not be true depending the annual return of your investment.. and nobody can predict an annual return that will guaranty a return = to the sum needed to buy a 30K + car. not only that, how many people are actually disciplined enough to make that investment month after month. maybe a few... but I don't think many. jmo
( 5 1/2 years old ) and got 12 grand for it.
1.) 12 grand is not 15-20 grand B.) How much did he originally pay for it?
That may or may not be true depending the annual return of your investment.
325 X 60 = 19,500. There are plenty of good cars out there that can be had for that or less. And that doesn't even include interest. Even with a low guaranteed savings account rate your at 21K. Consider the fact that a 325 payment is a loan of less than $17K.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
snakeweasel, we agree there, it certainly isnt 15 to 20.. and thank you for helping me to make my point. he got 12 grand for a 5 1/2 year old gmc pickup... I think most people would assume that since the avalon is without argument, I higher end vehicle, that it is reasonable to believe that it would be worth more than 12k, more like 15 to 20, which is what I stated... the gmc new was 21K... my avy was 33+. that alone will justify a higher resale for the same amount of time. and again, we don't argue that putting that 325 a month into an investment is lucrative.. where I disagree is that it isn't a viable argument because 95% of the people do not have the discipline to put that $ into an investment every single month over 5 years. As I stated in an earlier post, I had never traded in a car before it was 10 years old.. in most cases, 12 to 15 years old. The net result was hardly anything on trade in and more out of pocket up front to get into a new car. Trade it in sooner, get more trade in.. like I said.. pay it now or pay it later. pretty much a matter of personal preference. To each his own.
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
How does leasing the vehicle keep you from having to "deal with" repairs? I know it keeps from PAYING for them, but that's not the same thing.
If you lease the vehicle, don't you still have to take it in to the dealer, etc?
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
But I thought those foreign cars were supposed to be soooooo much better than the Fords I've owned.
Because of what I said earlier. After 3 years the car starts to need maintenance and repair I don't want to deal with
I was assuming that you'd SELL the car before buying the next one. :confuse:
"I was assuming that you'd SELL the car before buying the next one"
I see what you mean, BUY it then trade or sell after 3 years. Not sure if I would come out ahead or not. I couldn't buy it cash, so between finance charges and depreciation, I think I would be in the same boat as leasing.
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
The big advantage of the leasing is that you KNOW ahead of time what depreciation you'd be getting. That can go either way.
You are *probably* paying a higher interest rate with the leasing, I'd expect . . but that may not always be true.
By buying/selling, you'd avoid the risk of HUGE extra costs for going over on mileage. This may not be a problem to you, though.
And don't plan on using it much ? Lease limits are now typically only 10-12k per year and overmile charges are ludricruous. Leases make more sense to folks that buy things by payment size as opposed to those that really want to know what something is actually costing.
The Impala should be better when it becomes the Australian RWD Holden, the Taurus/500 should, at least, have better power when and if Ford can finally get the thing on the market even if it does look like a Fusion.
Most leases can be structured for the anticipated milage of the term of the lease.
In the past, I have leased many high end cars for periods between 2 and 3 years, and have found that economically, it was a good practice.
For long time holders of their cars, purchasing usually proves to be the better choice.
As the resale value of an Azera after 3 years has yet to be determined, the lease option gives you a known total cost factor.
Because they're better values.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Lease makes sense for some, while financing/purchasing are adequate situation for others. I have leased for over ten years now - better for me, lower payments, and a new car every two-three years.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Probably not. The milage charges would probably have exceeded the depreciation. Even at $.15 per mile on a 15000 mile per year lease, the excess milage charge would be $8250.00 at 100,000 miles.
Going one step further - given that the old style 2006 Tauri can be had for $11-12k out of the rental fleets, on what basis are you supposing anybody in their right mind is going to assume that the new 500/Taurus is anything but another cheap Ford?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Neither would I but Toyota buyers love being told how "smart" they are.
Azera owners are feeling pretty self-satisfied, as well, we just need to carry a little extra fuel in a jerry-can or two!
But as for the also-ran Ford 500 and the rest, well...
Not a problem for those of us after VALUE . . we tend to keep our cars forever.
I challenge you to put a pencil to it (or look it up on Intellicoice), the cost of driving the best is not significantly different than driving a 500 even over 10 years, never mind over something a little more usual for most auto buyers out there.
The wildcard has to be the Azera, first year reliability results have been very good - time will tell over a longer term - and since, at least' 'value' seems to equate to initially cheap by your definition - perhaps, then you ought to be waiting in line down at a Hyundai dealership, at least you'd get a real engine as part of the deal, and you would really have a defendable contention.
So, why would I change?
Again, the Intellichoice "cost of driving" means NOTHING to me, until I can see all the assumptions they're making. I have a very strong suspicion that they're overestimating what I pay for my vehicles, for example.
there is no doubt that CR, for example, does have its own motivations and values (eg safety, FE, reliability), but it remains probably the single most infuential publication to the autobuyer. Your comments about Intellichoice are more likely correct - they would have to base TCO on sticker, they would have no way of forecasting how cheap Ford, in this example, has to sell the 500, or that Avalons continue to fetch a few hundred over invoice.
Maybe not since it is from the subscribers of CR which do not represent a adequate cross section of the automotive buying public. Its not a scientifically valid sample. A smaller better chosen sample would be far far more statistically valid than just polling CR readers.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D