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GM warranties 'pads and linings' for 12K miles, but does not exclude rotors; hence, I have had rotors resurfaced and also replaced free, up to 40.8K miles (goodwill gesture at that point). I'm amazed when I read that even some GM dealers are not aware of GM's warranty on rotors, simply lumping them in with "pads and linings". I also have seen a GM TSB advising dealers to consider replacing pads for free if they are needed before 24K miles.
I recently bought a 2008 Chrysler product used, and the warranty is adamant that rotors are only warrantied for 12K miles, and also that the powertrain warranty isn't transferrable to subsequent owners (like GM's can). Who'da thunk that the Satan of auto manufacturers, GM, has had stronger warranties than many more looked-up-to brands?
I, for one, am extremely irritated. A company that does not stand behind their product, even in the face of numerous documented cases, and just signs a partial settlement where they admit no wrongdoing and only pay for part of the brake job (for only the 1st brake change) - how can anyone have respect for such a company?
I guess they're really not looking for repeat business anymore. Those of you that own 2004, or 2006 models, that's great, you lucked out. But you're not really in a position to judge those of us who have to do deal with the 08-09 (and early 2010) models that are experiencing these issues - and will continue to experience these issues for a 5 year car finance term.
I'm not defending Honda. I find it dumb that my rear-view mirror glass fell off after 1,000 miles, and my CD changer had to be replaced at 36k miles, but in general, Asian makes are better (and cheaper to maintain) in reliability than Europeans.
Perhaps you should look at the Fusion?
But going to a European brand to avoid costs associated with maintenance doesn't add up mathematically. That's where I don't get it. I bought a vehicle from a manufacturer with whom I've had good reliability experiences. I paid about $20K (slightly used). I've had it for 75K miles, and, being generous, I've spent no more than $2,500 for maintenance over that time. Anyone can change the oil in it - no specialty oil, parts, or anything. Would I have been better off with a Euro brand, for which I'd have paid over $30,000, plus the $2,000 extended maintenance contract, after which all the maintenance is "free"? That doesn't make sense to me.
And I've owned a Euro brand or two. Never again, or not soon - want to see high-cost repairs, and shops that say, "well, that's just a known fault of these cars" every time you have a major electrical failure? Then Euro is for you.
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Perhaps a german car would be considered slightly more overpriced. But an entry level BMW 3 costs what, $32k, thereabouts (if you negotiate it right). And they take care of it for 4 years / 50,000 miles for free. Should you CHOOSE to buy an extended coverage plan, they can go up to 100,000 miles / 6 yrs (but we won't talk about that in our example).
It sounds like your vehicle has already had certain costs associated with it. I know mine is just beginning with its costs. If you factor what appear to be "small" maintenance costs, over a 4 year term, I think you'll find that a Honda ends up costing a lot closer to a BMW than you might think.
Plus factor in that a Honda shouldn't cost anywhere near a BMW - since a BMW is a luxury car, and a honda is just a sedan (a quality japanese sedan, albeit, but still a sedan). You might as well add an additional $2-3k to your Honda invoice price before you drive it off the showroom floor. Not to mention the aggrevation of dealing with it, the poor customer service everyone is complaining about, the lack of a complimentary loaner car while they work on it, having to take time off work to deal with it, etc etc.
What's the true cost of ownership for an Accord nowadays? Certainly a lot higher than it used to be.
I'm by no means a BMW fan boy, in fact I never really was a fan of their cars. But my friends own them and love them. I never really understood why. But there's something to be said for a company that takes care of its customers, and works to earn repeat business. I'm using them as an example of a company that stands behind their product, and builds it with quality. Do you think BMW would put out such a defective brake system, if they had to fix it for free every 12k miles as part of the included maintenance plan? I think not. But Honda was fine with it, and still refuse to admit fault, because they figure we'll just deal with it and pay for it out of our own pockets.
Are they trying to sell you ONE car and they're done? Or are they selling you a Quality Brand for life?
I guess it depends who you're buying from.
They simply roll the expected prices of repairs into the price of the car!
By all means a BMW DOES cost more. It SHOULD - it's a luxury car. But how much you paid for it, versus the quality you get from it, is what I'm evaluating here.
Some people prefer to have it all in one package, and I understand that - that's how "all-inclusive" resorts work as well - you end up spending more at the outset for a zero out-of-pocket expense later, and a know, fixed cost. Nothing wrong with it!
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I do all my own maintenance and any repairs I can handle, so the extended service contracts some companies offer would be useless to me. I've been driving Accords (92 and 03) since 91, and I have had reliable service from both of them. The rear pads on the 03 did wear a little early. I changed the rear pads at 47k miles, and the front pads at 60k. The only repair, I've paid for on the 03, in 7 years and 80k miles, is a door lock actuator (less than $40), I'm sure, if my brakes were worn at 20k miles, and I had to take my car to the dealership for service, I would have some complaints too.
I think all car companies make lemons, but I do think some companies have a better track record in that department. I hang around quite a few Honda forums, and you don't have to look very hard to find complaints about any car, including the 03 V6 model I own (automatic transmission failures, brake problems, rattles, alignment issues etc.). Maybe I'm just lucky, and pick the good ones, but I'm certainly not down on Honda at this point. It's nice to have 1 car I don't have to consistantly work on. Good luck with your Accord, and hopefully your next set of brake pads will last much longer. I think you should wait and see if the new pads work, before you just write the company off over $50.
My 09 Accord, however, is a different story. Honestly I don't care as much about the brake problem itself (although it does peeve me), I'm more upset that they won't admit any wrong doing, saying "well that's what it is" and after being SUED, offer a lame one time $150 - and you're on your own from there. Not a good way to build customer loyalty in my opinion. A family that has 3 Accords (still own 2 currently) - that will never purchase another one again. Multiply that by thousands of households in America (hopefully who are smart enough not to buy again after this experience) is quite a few "loyal" customers they will be losing out on.
I disagree with you on 1 point - brakes ARE a safety concern and should be recalled based upon that. If you can't depend on a reasonable amount of Brake wear/tear, then it's considered a safety issue. We're not talking about how quickly the floor mats wear out, or if the paint fades too quickly. No one dies if the paint fades. But if the brakes fail to engage properly, then we have a problem.
After having multiple Honda's with few problems to abandon the entire brand due to this is just plain silly.
Having personally owned 3 Accords (two with the brake problem - an 08 and 09) I have no problem buying Honda in the future, nor does my mother who is on her third Accord (08).
My father traded his problematic Ford Ranger for a 2009 Ridgeline and I just purchased 2011 CR-Z.
When you compare Honda to other brands with their respective problems, known issues, resale value and long term reliability records -
Honda is still your best choice and will continue to be a sales leader.
Point is, every auto manufacturer has quality or technical issues, no matter how expensive they are, and hence issues TSBs, recalls, etc to try and fix them. Some, won't step up though when there is a widespread issue though.
Just b/c your paying extra for that BMW or Infiniti, Audi, etc doesn't mean your not going to have a problem. I've seen recalls already posted for several 2010 and 2011 BMW models for sensors.
My last Nissan had such a problem that once the warranty ended, the car was gone. But my kid bought one last year & it's been flawless to date. Great car & fun to drive. I gave Nissan another chance and things are fine!
The Sandman :sick: :shades:
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
My last Nissan had such a problem that once the warranty ended, the car was gone. But my kid bought one last year & it's been flawless to date. Great car & fun to drive. I gave Nissan another chance and things are fine!
The Sandman :sick: :shades:
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
Actually, no. I just paid $48 for a transmission fluid change 64k miles. Air filters (cabin filter and engine air filter), 20 bucks, @30k and 60k miles. I put tires on the car at 50k, high performance Bridgestones at $576 mounted and aligned. Oil changes cost $30 every 7k miles or so. That's it, honestly. Does BMW pay for tires?
My maintenance costs have amounted to less than $1,000 in 57 months and 64k miles. I think that's quite good.
The Sandman :sick: :shades:
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
Before this most recent problem, I had all the work done at my dealership and they did everything under warranty. However, at 50k, they told me they can no longer do courtesy warranty work and so I called Honda of America. Just last week Honda agreed to help me out. They are going to pay for all new rotors and back brake pads (the back pads are replaced under the recall). I will pay for the front pads and they will cover all labor costs. Unfortunately, I had to be VERY persistent in order for them to agree to do this for me. Of course, all front pads and rotors have already been replaced once, so I have no doubt that this whole thing will happen again in 10-15k miles. At that point, it's either a new vehicle for me, or a totally new, after-market brake package.
I did have a very interesting conversation with a Honda mechanic after my 2nd brake job. He asked if I was rotating my tires every time I took the car in for an oil change. I said yes. (I drive almost all highway miles and so I go 8k between oil changes). He explained a theory he has: If the wheel bolts are not evenly torqued every time the tires are rotated, he thinks the act of braking might put sufficiently uneven torque on the brake parts to stress and warp things. Interesting........ Of course, his dealership has always been responsible for torquing those bolts! I'd ben interested to hear if anyone else has heard this theory and if it holds any water.
Some vehicles seem to be very prone to warped rotors. I drove a co-workers company Chevy Uplander with less than 30k on it, and it shook like crazy on a moderate stop from high speed. On the other hand, I brake hard and often on a 2003 Astro AWD Cargo Van (due to transfers, this is the third one I've been a driver of), and haven't encountered a warped rotor issue (they are four wheel disc, believe it or not).
My 08 Accord EX-L V6 Sedan has a mild case, even though the dealer did the front brakes (pads and turn rotors) a few thousand miles ago for the same issue (gratis).
It just looks like the gen8 has some weak links in it - brakes, vcm vibes, and other design boo boos. About all one can do is ignore the issue unless its unsafe, fix fix fix, or trade. Could be the brakes are undersized for the amount of heat being generated due to the cars weight, or the factory rotors are too light to save weight and cost, therefore overheating. Note also that most modern car rotors can only be turned once or twice (some not even that) and be above the min thickness allowed.
I've had to get rid of more than one car due to issues the dealers couldn't fix. Two rain water leakers (one of which has a host of other ills), and one with an minor electrical issue the dealer was failing at fixing.
With Honda's participation, I will replace all 4 rotors and all the pads next week. Frankly, I'm tempted to get the new brakes, find a new car I like and trade the damn thing in while the brakes are still in good shape! Between the brakes, mediocre handling, absolutely insufficient low-end torque, road noise and, most of all, the 1st-graderesque automatic transmission, I'd LOVE to get ride of this nice looking p.o.s.!
So you've taken that big depreciation hit that happens on a new car, and are driving about double the 'average' yearly miles (i used to do that too before the company van).
If you intend to trade it, IMO now is the time. Once you get to around 60k miles it will get into the high mileage bracket and result in the dealer sending it to auction, instead of trying to retail it on the used car lot (could reduce the bargaining room on trade in).
Financially, it usually makes the most sense to keep and maintain the car until it is so old that it needs a very major repair equal to the book value, then scrap it for parts. Because you loose on the trade-in, and get hit with another new car's first year depreciation.
Personally, when I was driving that type of mileage, I traded every two years around the 50k mark. But that is due mostly to liking new cars, and luckily having a job that allows the luxury. Since getting a company van for commuting, I still am trading about every three years. My 08 Accord right now has about 21k at the two year/2mo mark.
SO check repair ratings and test ratings of what you might want to own. Check your wallet, budget, anyone else that puts money in the household till. Shop and see what kind of numbers you get, special finance offers, etc. Then factor in piece of mind and time spent at the dealership. Sometimes you get a good one, other times a lemon - i've had a few of each. And a few dealers inept at repairing anything that is not so obvious a blind person could see it.
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It is one thing for a car to have problems, they all do, but for the Honda to not stand behind it, that is poor. At least Kia has a 100,000 mile warranty and stands behind their cars... Honda has made some poor decisions recently, and it will catch up to them. We have been a Honda family for 22 years, and I am currently looking for a CUV and for the first time, it will not be a Honda. The Pilot has major brake issues also...
So I have a 2 year old car, that I can expect to replace the rotors every 12,000 miles... Crazy...
It usually takes a year or 2 to find out.
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just to advise that your readers will get absolutely NO help from Honda or it's dealers! Having had the rear pads renewed twice and the rotors turned twice we are now told that the whole rear end has to be replaced (rotors, calipers and pads, $900!!) Our vehicle goes to a workshop in a relatively small town and the mechanic tells us that 8 other Honda owners have the same problem! I have contacted Honda and of course they are not interested in helping out! We have been told to expect this problem to continue as there are no updated parts to rectify it. Any interested parties should contact me as I am planning a lawsuit!! NEVER again will I buy Honda!!
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The Sandman :sick: :shades:
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
I called Honda and they gave me this website because a class action lawsuit has reached a settlement:
http://www.accordsettlement.com/index.htm