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Toyota Camry Hybrid: Ordering Process
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I had the opportunity to visit ten dealerships in three states (GA, AZ, and MD) plus have internet discussions with dealerships in MI, Il, and VA. The approaches, comments, and levels of service varied widely.
I placed orders at three dealerships. Two required a deposit of $500 (and did not process) and one of $1000 (and did process). One order was placed in March and two in early April.
My local dealership (Sandy Springs Toyota) in Atlanta (from whom I had purchased 4 Toyotas in the last 4 years) was not interested in talking. As I later learned, four dealerships (Marietta, Atlanta, Toyota Mall of GA, and Sandy Springs) in Atlanta all had the similar approaches! "We will sell our cars for the maximum possible." A loaded TCH was offered at anywhere from $1000 - $5000 above MSRP --not to mentioned the extras (most of little to no value) that came from their distributor in Florida.
In Phoenix, I visited Wright Toyota. Though polite, the offer --MSRP + $3,500. The "closer", who offered the deal, looked and acted like a "closer". The salesman must have been the good cop and the "closer" the bad cop. Later the I was told by the salesman, let him "the closer" talk -- but don't budge -- he'll become more reasonable in time.
In MD I dealt with two dealerships. Darcars of Silver Spring offered a fully loaded TCH (in April) for MSRP + $100 + $19 (temp tags to get me back to Ga) Tax and title would be paid by me when I return to GA. When the car arrived, I would fly to BWI. They would pick me up, and I would drive home. Down payment $1000 (which they took and processed). Bottom line -- no car ever appeared. It was to come in and be delivered in early June. As I was about to depart for MD, they called and said something happened to the car -- would I like to re-order. I said, "No, please refund my money." The next day (after figuring how to get to MD again) I called about the car. I was told it had been sold and was gone. After repeated calls and almost two weeks -- my $1000 was returned!!!!
In March (after reading about the dealership in this forum) I ordered (over the internet) a silver -- fully loaded TCH -- from Fitzmall in Gaithersburg. The agreed price (in March) was MSRP + $19. (Deposit of $500 - which was never processed). At the time of my order, I was told to expect the car in the July to August time frame (They already had a list of 23 people wanting a TCH). Further, if you find a better deal in the meantime or someone else can come up with a car sooner -- feel free to take it. Your deposit will be refunded.
Shortly after the debacle at Darcars, I heard from Fitzmall. The car I wanted was "in bound" -- soon to arrive in New Jersey. We settled on a delivery date.
On 16 June, the salesman (super guy) delivered my car at Reagan National Airport in DC. We spent 15 minutes in seats in front of the Delta ticket counter -- completed all paperwork. Then we walked out to the parking garage -- looked over the car for another 15 minutes (yes, my salesman covered everything that needed to be done). He handed me all the paperwork and the FOB for the car. Then he handed me the parking ticket and $5 to depart. I paid MSRP + $19. That was it. When I returned to GA, I paid the fees for GA sales tax and tags.
Lessons Learned:
1. Do your homework! It pays off!!!
2. There are good dealers and sales persons. (Fitzmall and a person at Sandy Springs who did try to get the right price for me)
3. Look at the "out the door price". Doc fees and special add-on fees (premiums) is where dealers can turn what appears to be a good deal into a terrible one.
4. Refuse to pay huge mark -ups. If everyone refuses, dealers will have to keep the cars on their lots forever or lower the price. In the end the customer does have the final say.
5. FITZMALL of Gaithersburg is the "gold standard" for dealerships. If you can get there to buy a car -- Go. The internet process is refined and the service is excellent.
6. Even if you can't get to Fitzmall --check out their prices. They are a good reference for anyone buying a Toyota. You may be able to use their price points as a good bargaining tool. Remember -- "it's the "out the door" price that counts.
As for my TCH -- GREAT. Gas mileage in Atlanta (35-36) and on the highway (38 - 40).
Fitzmall did a great job on prep. The ride from DC to Atlanta was a real pleasure. My TCH replaced a 2005 Lexus ES330 -- which I sold myself in 3 days. I could not be happier.
The blue glow of excellence is tough to beat!!!!!
One final thought -- someone may ask, "Why buy a Toyota in the Southeast US?" One advantage of buying in the SE is that you can "special order" a car with features somewhat out of the norm -- within reason. For example, a TCH with Nav without moonroof. Sandy Springs Toyota in Atlanta does a pretty good job of this and is quite helpful. Be prepared to wait 90 to 120 days -- particularly if the car comes from Japan. If the car is manufactured in the US times are much shorter (30 - 45 days -- depending on the features ordered)
They said (that's the price for hybrids.) We went to Elmhurst Toyota and saw our first Camry Hybrid say no more, we bought from Elmhurst, and will recomend them to everyone from now on. I am still very upset about this and can't wait for the next toyota survey to arrive. My mom is shopping now I've steered her away from the Pirates!
Guy by the name of Barry Thomas. I live in Ottawa and he made a trip to meet me half way in Kingston to look at mt Accord trade. He will also save me a trip to tortonto to pick it up. Also in Kingston. Good price and easy to deal with. Tell him Keith turner recommended him. Won't help me since I already have a deal but he seems straight and has satisfied me with our dealings.
CQ (Convenience Pkg)
SR (Moon Roof)
CF (Carpet Mats and Trunk Mats)
MG3 (Color-keyed Mud Guards)
NV (Navigation System)
LA (Seat Trim Leather Surfaced)
WL (Wheel Locks)
I have to wait though 3-4 months, since it will be built and shipped from JAPAN...
I paid MSRP of $30,784, for mine, no wheel locks, but it has body side moldings. ($199) (Also got $1,000 more for my trade than I was told to expect in the "Real World Trade-in-Values" forum.)
Good luck and hope the wait isn't too tough!
Sale price: $30,000
Tag/License: $74.00
Doc. Fee: $99.00
Not sure about KBB's MSRP...
Mine:
25,900+
CQ: 470
LA: 1300
NV: 1200
SR: 940
CF: 199
BM:(Body moldings)195
Delivery 580
Total 30,784
MSRP: $30,589
MG3: $179.00
WL: $59.00
Total: $30827.00
CQ (Convenience Pkg)
SR (Moon Roof)
CF (Carpet Mats and Trunk Mats)
MG3 (Color-keyed Mud Guards)
NV (Navigation System)
LA (Seat Trim Leather Surfaced)
WL (Wheel Locks)
... I hope the transaction in 4 months or so goes as smooth as it was via phone and email to close the deal... can't wait, but patience pays off... always do your homework...
How far do you have to go to pick up the car?
I'm sure the deal will go smoothly, from what I hear of others buying at Fitz...
Try an experiment! I have a 4Runner as well as a TCH. I have been averaging 15.5 mpg. This week on fill up (I do often) I decided to drive it like my TCH. I have about 100 miles on the tank and am averaging 20.6 mpg.
I keep it as a low milage vehicle to pull my tractor and trailer. Most of my miles will be with the TCH
2007 Camry Hybrid fully loaded: Nav,SR,LA,CQ
Immediate delivery (will pick up Monday) in time for $2,600 IRS credit.
Wow didn't think It was possible since I was calling every dealer in CA, NV and TX.
Yes! And the most un-believable... got the car at $669 DISCOUNT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Out the door (I will pay FL tax): $29,920 (msrp:30,589)
plus $19 for out of state tag.
Note: NOOOOOO dealer DOC fee!
Go to www.fitzmall.com and ask for Hank.
That is fantastic. Congratulations!
Lucky, I guess -- almost gave up on the Hybrid -- All dealers in FL, CA, TX & NV told me 2-3-4 mos wait in line for a 'loaded' TCH. Sales guy said I called 10 mins after it was posted. I repeat: I got it 669 under MSRP -- and yes the odo reads 3 miles.
I'm on my 2nd glass of Cabernet -- toasting good luck.
Certainly not in FL
Regardless I am very happy with the car its just the ordering process and arrogance of dealers who dont have to work to sell a car cause they have people waiting in the wings. That take it or leave it attitude. Just remember Toyota dealers, what goes around eventually comes around.
I would never spend that kind of money and feel any pressure whatsoever to accept a color (interior or exterior) I didn't really want. Unless the dealer was willing to knock off 1K for me to do so.
Toyota's problem is voiced in their recent in-house motto for this Gen.. 'There is no best only better'
to about 750 below MSRP. I am not that eager to pay MSRP
when there are alternatives. But, I do want to give it a
serious thought to buying TCH. I donot mind waiting for
some months.
Would anyone venture a guess w.r.t Pricing in about 6 months ? Will the demand continue to be as it has been ?
What impact will the reduced tax credit have on the demand
and the price ?
Will Toyota increase the supply/production ?
Any informed opinions/comments ?
-GM
#5082 of 5082 Camry Hybrid & V6 by yerth10 Sep 01, 2006 (2:20 pm)
Incentives apart, there is lot of motive to buy a Camry Hybrid compared to [Camry] V6.
It costs only 3 K more than V6 model and will get that money very quickly since V6 will give a very low mileage.
As for the pickup, Hybrid is just 1 second slower, but it has a longer range, more smooth ride and lot of show off and green image.
Spread out over even 5 years, you paying MSRP, and the price of gasoline continuing to go up over the years, I don't think you would have paid, in real dollars, any more than buying a non-hybrid at $1500/$2000 below MSRP.
Waiting. Depending on which trim you want, waiting may be the only option. The loaded up versions are scarce to non-existant. There are likley standard versions available even with a possible discount now.
With only 29 days left to get the full $2600 rebate getting a loaded one is very very likely impossible by 9-30. In 6 months? Again it depends on the market and whether it want's the higher trim over the standard version.
Production at Georgetown KY is supposed to begin this month for arrival in Oct/Nov. The expectation is that sales will be 80,000-100,000 annually which is the same as the Prius.
IMO if you want a standard version negotiate a good price, get it now and take the $2600 from Uncle Sam. After 9-30 you will have to negotiate a $1300 better deal than you do this month. That might take some doing.
If you want a loaded up version you have little or no choice but wait.
How long do you estimate it will take to recoup the extra cost associated with a hybrid, even at current gas prices?
2007 Toyota Camry Hybrid
Hybrid 4dr Sedan (2.4L 4cyl gas/electric hybrid CVT)
MSRP Invoice
National Base Price (excludes destination charge) $25,900 $23,310
2007 Toyota Camry Hybrid
Hybrid 4dr Sedan (2.4L 4cyl gas/electric hybrid CVT)
What Others
Are Paying
MSRP Invoice
National Base Price
$25,900 $23,310 $27,925
Regional Adjustment
for Zip Code Change - - $0
Optional Equipment $3,000 $3,172 $3,712
LA Leather Package $1,300 $1,040 $1,300
NV Navigation System $1,200 $1,020 $1,200
CQ Convenience Package $470 $376 $470
HM Heated Mirrors $30 $24 $30
-- SET Destination Charge $0 $712 $712
Color Adjustment - - $0
Desert Sand Mica
Destination Charge $620 $620 $620
Total with Options $29,520 $27,102 $32,257
TOYOTA CAMRY 4 CYL GAS ENGINE XLE:
2007 Toyota Camry
XLE 4dr Sedan (2.4L 4cyl 5A)
MSRP Invoice
National Base Price (excludes destination charge)
$24,700 $21,983
2007 Toyota Camry
XLE 4dr Sedan (2.4L 4cyl 5A)
What Others
Are Paying
MSRP Invoice
National Base Price
A note about advertising fees $24,700 $21,983 $24,697
Regional Adjustment
for Zip Code Change - - $0
Optional Equipment $4,120 $3,312 $4,120
LA Leather Package $1,300 $1,040 $1,300
NV Navigation System $1,200 $1,020 $1,200
VS Vehicle Stability Control $650 $520 $650
Z1 Preferred Premium Accessory Package $475 $325 $475
HD Heated Front Seats $440 $352 $440
-- SET Destination Charge $55 $55 $55
IZ Fleet Convenience Package $0 $0 $0
FE 50 State Emissions $0 $0 $0
Color Adjustment - - $0
Desert Sand Mica
Destination Charge $620 $620 $620
Total with Options $29,440 $25,915 $29,437
IMO the $3,300 price difference could be made up in a year, for some two, in gasoline savings alone.
Of course some may prefer a USED Lexus over better technology...and a new car. That is whats great about America! Freedom of choice and thought!
You can get a very nice "used" Camry for a whole lot less. Most people looking for a new car don't consider a "used" luxury car as an alternative.
However remember after tax credits I have less than $24,000 in my NEW Camry that is averaging 39 MPG. If I wanted a used luxury car I'd have kept the Infiniti FX45 that I traded.
The actual cost of the Hybrid Camry over a "regular" one, comparably equipped, is less than $4,000. All the other costs are for leather, navigation, convinence groups, etc. THOSE ARE THINGS PEOPLE WANT.
Yes you can get a nice new Camry for $24K but you cannot get all the same features and benefits as in a $30K hybrid Camry.
If what you want as a buyer is a nice Camry then by all means the standard version is for you. If you want a version that has all the best features and V6 power and the fuel economy of a Corolla then the TCH is for you. This is one of the best parts of the product strategy. There are so many appealing choices for so many different segments of the market.
BTW you can also get a very nice TCH with V6 power and the superior fuel economy for just under $27,000. In fact it's easier to get this trim than the loaded trim.
I meant to say my Hybrid Camry. Still after now driving it for a while I will say that even without the tax credits I would now be willing to pay more.
No my Camry is not as nice as my Infiniti. However I have always traded cars often, a bad habit maybe, but one that millions of other americans also has. A good used luxury car probably is always a better value than a $30,000 new car. Can't argue that. However millions of americans buy new cars every year even though there are millions of used luxury cars available at the same cost. Logical? Probably not. Fact is a lot of people just don't want to drive a car around that is more than three years old. Other fact is that if millions of people didn't buy new cars this economy would hit the dumps. I also traded my lawn mower and my cell phone this year. However my new John Deer is a LOT nicer than my old Husky.
I honestly can't win an argument when I agree with you that a used car is a better value. It just about always is. It's just not my way and I can aford new cars so that's what I drive.
By the way after 3 BMW's, an Audi and an Infiniti I am happay to get away from high maintenance costs. That's a real waste as well
I waited 4 months at my local dealer, who called me twice to say a red one was coming, but stated some other dealer had spoken for it a few days later.
I bought the TCH from a second dealer. They located one a few days after I got in line. From then, took four weeks to arrive at the dealership. It sounds like Toyota dealers will do anything to secure one of these vehicles. Both offered MSRP for it--no markup.
My father owns a Lexus 430, 2000 I think, and I have driven it quite a bit. While the leather is a bit comfier, and the engine a bit peppier up steep hills, and the trunk a bit bigger, the TCH has quite a few advantages: around 15 MPG, a better stereo system, bluetooth, quieter at low speeds. Even for a Lexus driver, the TCH is impressive. Most impressive of all, the TCH teaches you how to drive efficiently--a paradigm shift for a man driving 20K miles a year. I see the road, and getting from place to place, in a whole new way.
Bet you can get one near invoice next spring, when the Kentucky plant will be in full production, and other mid-sized sedans (Saturn Aura, Nissan Altima) may come in hybrid drive trains.
You have to understand that the standard equipment level of a TCH is almost equivalent to XLE on a regular Camry. Every single TCH has an upgraded 440 watt JBL 6 disc/mp3 stereo system, standard bluetooth, standard auto dual climate, etc. On my car, I added a sunroof and mirror package. I paid $26500, NOT including a $2600 rebate. So I too am paying $24k. Really not anymore than a "regular" Camry equipped the same way would be---only I'm getting 35 mpg on a car that I'm fairly certain won't depreciate much.
If you want leather, nav system, etc, sure, you may be looking at close to $30k, but that's true for every midsize car with that level of equipment.
Is this rebate a rebate to dealer or to consumer?