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Chevrolet Malibu vs. Toyota Camry vs. Honda Accord
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When I was shopping I was comparing new 2005 models that I mentioned in my first post, not used. I agree that safety is very important.
"Based on safety alone (a biggie for me) the Malibu crushes the 03 Accord (no pun intended)."
What do you base this safety comment on? Both score pretty well in governmental and IIHS tests.
And I agree, it may be an inflated price but there's only one Honda dealer in town and they set the stage for over inflation of Hondas all round here. It only took one visit there to find out they had their heads up their [non-permissible content removed]'s which really turned me off. The GM dealers here are excellent in comparison.
Whatever the underlying reason, the Honda dealership here and it's sales people could take a lesson from a GM dealership that doesnt have to resort to putting down the competition. This city has the largest volume GM dealership in Canada. That only happens because of good service and honesty, not dirty business practices.
That demeaning air at the Honda dealership was not only directed at GM. They freely and openly put down everyone else. Arrogance and ignorance is inexcusable and will not get my business. It's very unprofessional and distasteful. It's turned me off of any Honda product for a long time to come.
And dont worry, GMC will survive, and thrive. If Honda has to rely on someone else caving in to build their empire on foreign land, that only enforces my feelings about them. I for one do care about the backbone of North American business, free enterprise and keeping money on this continent. Good and bad models come and go, it's an ever changing landscape.
Dont get me wrong, I have no blind loyalty to GM. My next vehicle could be a Ford...or a Chrysler but it damn sure wont be a Honda. My dream vehicle will be a 67 Camaro, or Vette, or Mustang, or Barracuda. Honda has no such classics and no such rich history. Or does a Honda lover have the nerve to call that crap from the 1st generation Honda Civic 1973-1979 a classic? :lemon:
The fact that you would rather have a 67 Camaro, than an 07 Camaro, says a lot (oh, I forgot, Chevy doesn't even make an 07 Camaro because they couldn't sell them). Honda is lightyears ahead of where they were in 73. GM has taken baby steps since then. A 40 year old Chevy, is more appealing than a new one (and worth more too). Doesn't say much for their advancement, does it?
What's GM's reputation again?
Honda makes a point not to name competitors in their commercials. Other car makers mention the Accord more than the car they are selling, it seems.
Anyway because of spending rather than size limitations we took a look at a Civic. Would have looked at a Fit but they only had one and he tried to push us away from even looking. In this case the sales experience at Honda was on the sleazy side. Our experience with Honda and Toyota dealers has been arrogance-- sleaze being reserved for the local Hyundai/Nissan dealer. Much worse than the local Chevy/Ford dealers and worse than the Kia dealer, who is teamed with a Dodge outlet.
Frankly I think GM has one of the better dealer networks and something of the Saturn experience rubbed off on the other dealers.
If the deal on the car is good enough I will ignore the dealer but the combination of more car for the money and a decent dealership experience were influencers on our last two buying decisions.
In defense of Honda, I suspect that the nearest dealership to the one we visited is better in customer service, at least that's my experience in looking at cars over the last year.
Again, were I the type to trade cars every three years, resale would certainly play a role in our decisions. The Civic (different class, but the same money)seemed very small, probably adjusted my size preference after two years with the 'Bu... but it did seem a lot smaller than I remember my 01 Elantra being-- let alone the new Elantra or Spectra for that matter.
Still like the idea of the Fit and would like to have had a larger supply on the lot, plus early peaks of the next gen Accord does look nice. It's good to see some change on the horizon for Honda, they have been getting more and more conservative. Their lead over American cars in the early nineties was very pronounced.
Fun To Drive: Mazda MX-5 Miata
Small SUV: Toyota RAV4
Small Sedan: Honda Civic
Family Sedan: Honda Accord
Minivan: Toyota Sienna
Luxury Sedan: Infiniti M45
Midsized SUV: Toyota Highlander Hybrid
Green Car: Toyota Prius
Upscale sedan: Infiniti G35
Budget Car: Honda Fit
[Source: Consumer Reports]
2007 is more of same from Japanese car buyers club. They are glad no american or european cars made the list
When you say "backbone of North American business" you refer to the auto industry? How much impact do you think the foreign nameplates have on the North American economy? Direct jobs, supplier jobs, etc.
I don't think that any 1st gen Honda is a classic. Neither are Vegas and Pintos from the same gen. Honda did realize they need to get better to compete in this market. Guess what, they did get better, a whole lot better, and continue to get better even as their market share grows. The domestics lived in the past, they rested on their laurels.
Where is the Malibu made? Just curious.
Fairfax #2-- K.C., KS
From my point of view it's always a real loser to get into arguing "what's an American car".
Is the Camcord more American than a Fusion? Frankly I don't know and don't care. You could post hundreds of responses on this question alone and get nowhere.
I'm driving a Malibu which has a high American content and an Optima with a low American content. Frankly I bought both because they appealed to me as a customer and gave good value.
Yes. The Fusion is Mexican made. Even tho Ford is a domestic corporation, they won't be paying income taxes for years considering the huge losses they sustain and the carry forwards that accompany those.
The Camry is made in America and Toyota pays huge income tax bills every year. Plus they don't have the huge union extortion bill to pay and write off as well, increasing taxes to the coffers of the US Treasury.
The rust belt is losing jobs. But the South is adding jobs. So......move South, like thousands do every month.
Wasn't it 50-70 years ago that the reverse was true? Times change bro. You want to hold on tho the past and be all nostalgic? Go ahead, but most go-getters will go and get and leave behind the complainers.
Gosh those design and engineering centers in Michigan, California, and Ohio to name a few, must be a cover for something else. I knew there weren't Americans working there. The Japanese must really rack up the frequent flyer miles between Japan and the United States. What about all of those supplier plants in the United States?
Silverado: nice truck. Maybe one of GM's best products. GM is spending lots of money abroad. Namely China. See, this is a global economy. Most profits to US people? What profits??
Please explain to me why the United States unemployment rate is 4.5%?
You know what is nice? My dividend checks from "Foreign" Companies. The return on my investment in "Foreign" compaines. (No, I won't move to those countries. This is why I love capitalism.)
You know what else is nice. Zero problems with my Accord in 30,000 miles plus. Great gas mileage (29mpg in mixed driving) Nice power from a smooth 4 cylinder. Couldn't say any of that for all of the "domestics" I've owned.
Since this is the "Accord vs. Camry vs. Malibu" forum I'll throw this in: In IMHO:
1. Accord
2. Camry
8. Malibu
I will always spend my money on what provides the most satisfation for myself. Honda has done that with my car and the purpose of my car. My wife's car will soon be replaced with a Honda also (her choice) Right now, it's not the domestics. I can only hope that will change through competition. As I type I can't help but notice a real possibility, the Acadia.
I like my Malibu Maxx. It's EPA reported MPG (by drivers not the standard mileage sequence) is much higher than the Accord. The engine isn't quite as smooth as the four on my Kia (and I'm sure not as smooth as the Camcords) but it's inexpensive to drive and maintain. The car's very comfortable, and best of all has a nice hatch out back to throw stuff into. I like it better at 42K than I did when it was new.
It comes from Kansas and although I haven't checked the Monroney sticker, I suspect that it has higher American content than just about anything. That means very little to me. The fact that it's a unique and pleasant car does.
I'm glad you are satisfied with your Malibu, and I am interested in where your numbers come from, and what they are, exactly.
Do you mind showing me that quote?
That makes up for the quarter million lost auto jobs in the last few years. What about the fallen off lists unemployed or the underemployed or the ones who took a much lessor job?
The supplier plants in US are supplying the lowest value, largest size parts for japanese cars, like raw materials, sheet metal panels. Up to 85% of the dollar value of some japanese cars made in US goes to Japan.
What profits? lets not do anything about that.
My domestic gives me 28 mpg combined from a V6 with twice the displacement and torque of your 4 cyl. I got 45,000 miles before my first problem, but it had 90,000 miles on it when I got it.
We are getting a Civic Factory. Maybe Honda wants the unemployed GM workers to come apply to assemble civics. Honda wants to reduce the 110,000 civics they annually import using this new plant. We will give honda millions of dollars of tax abatements to give us this new plant.
Your Malibu is a 4.8L with 320 lb-ft of torque? Or is someone exaggerating a bit?
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/mpg/MPG.do?action=browseList2&make=Chevrolet&model=Ma- - - libu%20Maxx
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/mpg/MPG.do?action=browseList2&make=Honda&model=Accord- - -
Three caveats here:
1. I was comparing the V-6 models. The 05 V6 Maxx has a higher mpg than the 04-- still think both did well compared to Accord.
2. The OHV V-6 seems to be doing better than the four cylinder Malibu.
3. This does not apply to the last gen. Malibu Classic which IMHO was a very very unlikeable car and far inferior to the Accords of that era.
Also, part of the good mileage on the Malibu is probably due to the electric steering system. There's been some knock on this because of road feel. I've gotten used to the system and like it. I did not like paying eight hundred bucks when it failed and if it fails again, there goes any savings due to not having hydraulic steering.
The Maxxes and (I think) the six cylinder 'Bu's have now been given hydraulic power steering and the epa figures are down. Was the electric steering another GM example of interesting engineering and bad implementation? I hope not. I've heard that the new columns have been corrected. Still the concept, although interesting, is basically combining a big tube full of electronic equipment with grease. Maybe that idea in itself was flawed, although other makes have certainly done it.
the answer to your questions are no, not by a long shot - and you SHOULD care. It is employment (and taxes) that allows us to educate your kids, pay those police officers, build roads and about whatever other luxuries you now take for granted. Maybe you will learn to care when our tax rates get to an European-like 40-50%?
I only mentioned 3 centers off the top of my head. There are more and I certainly wouldn't classify the ones I mentioned as small. Why have there been "quarter million" lost auto jobs the past few years?? Simple answer: lack of demand because the product supplied could not keep up with the competition.
What about all of those workers that were overemployed due to UAW contracts?
I am sure there will be people lined up at the door to work at the new Civic plant. Isn't the economic benefit worth the cost of the tax breaks given to Honda? It's simple economics.
I hope your large displacement and big torque Malibu keep going strong well beyond 200,000 miles.
Thats a alot silly blufz1....startin to wonder about you.
And what the hell is this razor anyway? You make no sense with those obscure comments.
I highly doubt that people who buy a particular vehicle consider it punishment. I bought mine because like it, and it provides me with what I want/need at a good value. As I have stated and proven before here, my cost of ownership over the years with North American vehicles is low, and most certainly lower than yours. And no I dont drive beat up old crappy things either. I dont ever sit around and mope because I didnt buy something else. You think I've been forced to buy what I buy by some conspiracy or something?
And speaking of being true to your own continent's workforce, of which this discussion has touched on...
Has anyone stopped to think about the US debt lately? Not sure what is is but it's into the trillions. Any idea why? Perhaps partly due to the consumer's appetite for cheap products? As an example, does anyone remember the VCR? It was invented and 1st produced in the USA. Then they gave it way to the Japanese. And followed that by giving away all electronics manufacturing to the Japanese. Any idea how much that has cost North America's economy? Now the automotive industry is in trouble and the loss of it would be further devastation to your homeland.
We like to live on the backs of cheap foreign labour while sacrificing our own workforce. Do we really wish that nothing gets made in North America anymore just so we can have cheap products?
Do you mean US trade deficit?
I had no idea there was cheap foreign labor in Ohio.??? :confuse:
Do we really wish that nothing gets made in North America anymore just so we can have cheap products?
I didn't buy an Accord because it was cheap, I bought it because it was better.
It was 1929 when GM acquired 80% of Opel.
Loren
If you want to talk about "what is american", I suggest you look into this discussion in Auto News.
Buying American Cars - What does it mean?
elroy5 said: The fact that you would rather have a 67 Camaro, than an 07 Camaro, says a lot.
Not really, not at all. I do like older cars, but I'd love a new Vette, Camaro, Mustang, Charger too! I dont think I'd be alone in that thinking either.
I was trying to show the rich history these car companies have, and continue to build on. As a comparison, Honda and Toyota have no such history and what do they have that can rank up against any American car classic?
leadfoot6 - You're basing your Honda opinion on how the dealer in your area treated you?
Of course that figures into it for a lot people, why does that surprise you? The phrase, "Service Sells" isnt a new concept. I've heard some stories about the Honda dealer here and many recommend traveling to a neighboring city to take service work to that dealer since this one is idiotic and has no idea what good customer service is about. Thats simply bad business.
elroy5 - When the salesman knows customers are few, and far between, he is a lot more likely to bend over backwards.
I think you missed the part about the GM dealer I deal with and how they are the largest volume dealer in Canada. They are in the midst of building a huge dealer complex at a new location along with a Ford dealership. I doubt that sales are few and far between. The GM dealer I deal with has an amazing sales/service dept. That kind of customer care quality isnt by accident. It takes alot of work, know how and good people. It takes excellent leadership and management skills. Thats something Honda could use at their dealership here. Bending over backwards? Hell, bending at all would be a stretch for the Honda dealer here. They must take classes in anti-customer service, arrogance and stupidity. They are pissing people off at a high rate and yes you can bet it WILL hurt their sales.
madurbs said: I don't think that any 1st gen Honda is a classic. Neither are Vegas and Pintos from the same gen.
I dont think so either but the Pinto and Vega are a whole lot more classic than that piece of $hit 1st gen Honda!
madurbs said: You know what else is nice. Zero problems with my Accord in 30,000 miles plus. Great gas mileage (29mpg in mixed driving) Nice power from a smooth 4 cylinder. Couldn't say any of that for all of the "domestics" I've owned.
You know what is also nice? Zero problems with my Malibu in 40,000 kms. Better gas mileage than an Accord. Smooth and solid torquey power. Highly rated levels of safety and comfort features. I cant say that for the import I own.
And all that money I didnt invest (throw away) on a more expensive and lower featured vehicle. And....nice to know that IF I do need warranty work done that I have a dealer who actually WANTS to help, rather than being a jerk. Experiences go both ways madurbs.
The investment I was referring to is contained in my portfolio, not my garage. How are the Domestics doing with their stock values?
Again, so I keep my ADD self on topic. Here are my ratings:
1. Accord
2. Camry
8. Malibu
The 08 Malibu does look like it has potential. At this point that is all GM can ask for. I'm still waiting for the Aveo SS.!!!
GM, Ford, and DC do make some desireable vehicles. We all benefit from this competition.
BTW, how were the sales numbers for automakers from March 07????
I wasnt referring to your portfolio when I mentioned the word investment. That word has been mentioned here a few times in reference to vehicles and as far as financial investments, I consider a vehicle about the worst there is. That is unless you're buying a classic or a future classic and storing it for 20 years. And if I were to speculate and choose one to buy and store, it'd be a Mustang, Vette, Camaro, Charger or something similar.
So far my 05 Malibu has fantastic potential as well. It has the potential of being another in a long line of smart vehicle purchases on my part. Minimal initial investment, lasting many years and costing me very little over that period of time. And providing a high level of comfort and safety. A very wise vehicle investment :shades:
No idea how the stocks or sales are. I dont worry too much about GM going away anytime soon. Things go up n down, and come n go but I doubt whether GM will be one of those things that will disappear.
What do you think about the current generation Malibu SS appreciating in value somewhere down the line? I'm by no means comparing it to other Chevy classics. Just wondering. I don't think the Accord or Camry will ever be appreciating classics.
But maybe if you kept it long enough. It might be worth something when it's the only vehicle around that actually drives on the ground rather than flys.
If you're thinking of buying something to tuck away, I'd look at my other suggestions in that other post. Just think if you'd have bought a Shelby Cobra way back when. You'd be retiring on what it's worth now $$
I never said anything about any Chevy with SS in the name is destined to be a classic. I asked a question. Here is what I did write:
"Shadow(or anybody),
What do you think about the current generation Malibu SS appreciating in value somewhere down the line? I'm by no means comparing it to other Chevy classics. Just wondering. I don't think the Accord or Camry will ever be appreciating classics."
I am well aware of what Chevy's marketing department has done to the SS moniker. The current SS moniker is similiar to the time when Chevy was putting a "Z" in front of everything. Z28 and Z06 are classics or will be classics. Don't think Z24(Cavalier), Z26 (Beretta), Z34(Lumina), and Z71(Silverado) will be classics. Just poor marketing in my opinion.
Poor marketing, is not the reason 4 of these five no longer exist. Poor quality, is the reason. How long will the Malibu name last this time around? The Zs and SSs don't make them better. Most times the "performance" models from GM have worse reliability than the smaller engine models. Cavalier, Barretta, Lumina, the names were changed to protect the guilty.
Loren
Your right, poor quality, not marketing led to those models death.
ecmfw,
After a quick glance at the iihs website, it doesn't look like any manufacture has headrest design down just yet.
Loren