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That seems a little narrow-minded... Never say Never...
Japan has a few appealing shapes in recent year also, but even though quality is the biggest draw there, the driver's edge is still with the Ultimates, IMO.
How much influence does US-vs-Europe have in the current BMW house?
I'm a conservative person, so the more classic designs of cars like the Mercedes SL 550 are much more beautiful to my eye than the more radical 650 Ci. It doesn't mean that you or I are wrong, it is just personal taste. I would stray from Honda if they got a Bangle-esque Accord (where I don't think my Accord is 'gorgeous' I don't think it is 'ugly' either).
BMW's daring designs seem to be paying off, their sales (especially those of the 7-series) are doing great!
BMW 330Ci vs. VW R32
Thanks,
kyfdx
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I always had a desire to buy a luxury car...I said to myself that when I reached a certain level financially and professionally, I would get one. I feel like I have reached that point now, so I am ready to "pull the trigger".
If you are buying a BMW because you "should", you not going to like the 3 Series. It's too small, and the ride is too hard (particularly with the sports package). It's not especially quiet, and the stereo isn't that great.
I think you would be much happier with a Lexus, which will be much quieter, luxurious, and reliable.
Those who enjoy BMW's are those who like to drive just a little bit faster than they should. The harsher ride, and the higher noise are acceptable compromises for the better performance, and they're also generally the sort who worry that they won't be able to hear the engine if the stereo is too loud.
An easy way to check as to which you type you are - do you know who makes the tires on your car? Do you care? If the answer to either or both those questions is 'nope', then buy the Lexus and don't look back.
I wouldn't worry about it; A newer BMW won't show signs of serious rusting for at least 10 to 15 years-if then.
So a quick summary:
E36 - lighter, better handling, ~edgier~.
E46 - slightly larger, more luxury, prettier (IMHO).
I do know, but I don't really car that much! So which type am I? :P
Owner 6
I would take it to a local Body Shop and let someone with 20+ years in the business look it over. Offer him $50-$75 to spend 20 minutes looking around in the places he knows rust out 1st. thats what I would do.
:sick:
I’m wondering about a few things:
1. If I find both a 2003 and 2004 model in essentially the same condition with the similar mileage, is the 2004 worth the extra money. Or is it basically the same car but I’m paying mainly for the one year warranty.
2. Are there some specific options I should be looking for that most BMW owners would consider essential for the 325? Anything in particular I should be looking for when I test drive one?
3. If I wait a few more months until the 2008’s come out, should I expect the used 2005 models to be available for about the current price of the 2004’s?. If so, would it be worth waiting a few more months?
Thanks for any feedback or opinions.
Dean
As far as popular options, I'd worry more about finding a clean pampered car than a car with exactly the right features and color. Common options for the '03 and '04 models are "premium package" "sport package" "auto transmission" "cold-weather package" and "metallic paint."
A minimally equipped 325i was about $28,000 back in '03 and '04, so paying $23,000 for a 4-year old car seems like too much for me - unless it's fully optioned out. I'd personally try to find a lesser equipped 325i for closer to $20,000 - and very likely less - for a 325i from these model years.
It's a really fun, well-balanced car - you'll enjoy it.
But, the spread should probably be more like $2500-$3000..
Commenting on '03 325i prices... Our "loaded" model had an MSRP of $38,145.. Sport, premium, xenons, HK, cold weather pkg, etc, etc..
regards,
kyfdx
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As others have said, it's basically the same car. For completeness sake, here is what Edmunds lists as the changes introduced to the various 325 models for the 2004 model year:
"Rain-sensing wipers, automatic headlights and hands-free wireless cell phone capability are now standard features on the sedan and wagon. There are new alloy wheel designs for the 325i, 325xi and 330xi Sport Package. All 3 Series coupes and convertibles receive a revised front fascia, plus new front and rear bumper contours, Adaptive headlamps and taillights and new designs for both the standard and optional wheels. Sirius Satellite Radio is now available as an accessory on all 3 Series models."
In the big picture, these changes are relatively minor in scope. The wipers and headlights may be included as options on the 2003 models. I like the change made to the 325 Sport Package wheels, but this was a subtle change.
2. Are there some specific options I should be looking for that most BMW owners would consider essential for the 325? Anything in particular I should be looking for when I test drive one?
I don't know if the moonroof was standard for '03 or '04 (I believe it was standard for '05), but most BMW owners consider the moonroof essential. I remember years ago it was quite difficult to try to order a 325i from my BMW dealer without this option.
Not all 3-series models will have leather seats. Many will be "leatherette" (vinyl). Leather was about a $1400 (retail) option on 325 models. However, I understand BMW's leatherette is durable and well regarded.
The Sports Package makes a big difference!! It gives the 325 a sportier look; and more importantly, a firmer, more communicative drive. Is also includes 10-way adjustable sport seats, with side bolsters and thigh support. There are a fair share of customers who don't desire this package, though. It is something you should definitely test drive and compare. It also includes more expensive performance tires that wear out quicker. Nevertheless, I wouldn't buy a 325 without it.
3. If I wait a few more months until the 2008’s come out, should I expect the used 2005 models to be available for about the current price of the 2004’s?. If so, would it be worth waiting a few more months?
My advice: Keep your eyes open and be patient. Sometimes a great deal jumps out unexpectedly. Negotiate your best deal.
At the end of Dec 2006, I was fortunate to buy a Certified '05 325Ci coupe from a BMW dealer for about $25.5K, after a little negotiation. It had 29K miles on it. It was a stick model with leather seats, adaptive headlights, metallic paint (silver), and the Sports Package. As you shop around, I think you should be able to negotiate a lightly equipped 325i sedan for $25K -- or less.
FYI:
1) The base 325 CI coupe originally retailed for over $2K more than the base 325i sedan. My 325Ci doesn't have the premium package, HK audio, etc, but it still retailed at slightly over $36K when new.
2) The Certification status provides warranty coverage for 6 years or 100K miles. Most BMW dealers sell their '03 thru '05 models as Certified cars, but always check to be certain.
3) One caveat: I think BMW dealers have incentives on their '04 models, but not on the '05 models. Last I saw, this incentive included something like 2 months payments made by BMW, if I remember correctly.
Generally I'm inclined to go with the later model, a 2004, instead of a 2003, if I can find one in great condition for a price I can afford. Since I tend to keep cars for a really long time, it probably doesn't matter that much in the long run, but in the short term, a more recent model seems like something I'd feel more comfortable with.
If I could find a 2005 for $25.5k, I'd buy it in a heartbeat. Most dealers in the North Florida area are asking more than $30,000 for any 2005 model.
The suggestion to be patient is good advice; I'd rather wait for the right deal than jump into something that's not quite right.
Thanks again to everyone who responded
Dean
Here's the car I just bought:
2003 CPO 325xi, steel blue metallic, auto, 25K miles, cold weather pkg, premium pkg, leather (and no - leather was not included in premium pkg by default), xenon lights. This car is in a pristine condition (wouldn't get the CPO otherwise). The factory warranty/free maintenance runs out this August.
The price? $25900, and I believe it to be a decent deal (in this area, anyway). I did not even haggle. The one thing I loved about the process is how painless it was to dump my old car as a trade-in; they gave me $2500 for my way less than pristine 10 yo Civic.
Anyway, the MSRP for the new 2003 325xi w/o any options was $29550, and with all the options I got on mine - $37245.
I was considering 2004 models as an alternative, but like the others pointed out, the differences between the years are miniscule and the 2004 cars were coming getting close to the end of mfg warranty (40+ K miles). So in the end, it looked like a wash - I chose to go with the lowest possible mileage.
HTH
You got some nice options on your car, but to my mind, I couldn't spend $26,000 on a 5 year old car that was available new (admittedly with fewer options) for only $1,000 more.
I also wouldn't pay extra for an extended warranty - CPO or otherwise. I'd much rather save a grand or two and by a clean used BMW from a BMWCCA member or referral - one that I know has been meticulously cared for. A 2003 BMW could theoretically have a 2002 in-service date. If that's the case, CPO coverage could run out next year - not worth the added cost to me.
BTW, why did you choose the xi model if you live in CA? Do you plan on putting snow tires on it and taking it skiing in the winter?
1. 2004 330Ci 47k miles - auto, premium, sport & cold-weather packages, 3M protective film on front, aluminum cube trim, rain-sensing wipers, adaptive bi-xenon lights, power moonroof, Harman/Kardon stereo, Blitzsafe XM radio conversion - $28,500.
2. 2003 530i 62.4k miles - steptronic, sport & premium packages, moonroof, xenon lights, XM satellite radio, tinted windows, M steering wheel, cross-spoke alloys - $22,950.
3. 2003 530i 55k miles - 5-speed, premium package, park-distance control, navigation, power moonroof, seats & windows, new clutch, second owner, non-smoker, garaged, absolutely clean, superb condition, warranty - $25,900.
4. 2002 330i 59k miles - 5-speed, sport & premium pkgs, sunroof, two sets of wheels, one with Hakkapeliitta snows, never tracked or abused, 100k or 2/08 warranty - $18,900.
There are a lot of nice $25,000ish BMW's out there.
Be that as it may, my car is not 5 years old. The original in-service day was August '03. It also only has 25K miles on it. In no event would I risk buying a BMW so close to expiration of factory warranty without CPO status or third-party extension - to me, it's just not a wise investment. Regardless of whether it's from a car club member or not.
As for the xi trim... yeah, having thrown this thing around corners a bit, I now realize I should have gone for the 325i with sport pkg, and I did have that option - but ultimately decided to go with better value for the money/lower miles. Again, value for the money may be a subjective thing, but I've looked at the alternatives for quite a while, and this dealership did seem to offer the most reasonable pricing of them all.
But perhaps the AWD will pay off next winter when I go up to Tahoe, after all.
The didn't vary at all. Buy the car in Maine, California, Florida or Washington, it didn't matter, the invoice was the invoice was the invoice. The only pseudo difference was that in some metropolitan markets there was an additional MACO added to the invoice of a couple hundred dollars. That said, MACO isn't really an invoice item.
"In no event would I risk buying a BMW so close to expiration of factory warranty without CPO status or third-party extension - to me, it's just not a wise investment."
Hmmm, funny. I'm currently shopping for a used BMW and could care less whether it has any kind of a warranty at all. Different strokes...
Best Regards,
Shipo
Best Regards,
Shipo
Now on to the invoice prices. This is not 2003, so I had to do some looking around on the web to find this info (I highly recommend that you do the same). Look here: the invoice price on the base 325xi was $27K. The options I have on my car add extra $8K to the invoice. Enough said.
A 325i + sport pkg + destination charge > $27K on the invoice. Well over $27K. Perhaps you know of a way to convince a dealer to sell you a car below invoice (BMW has no dealer holdbacks, btw), but I sure don't.
Price Sheet --- 325i ---- 325xi --- 325iT -- 325xiT -- 325Ci -- 325Cic
MSRP --------- 27,800 - 29,550 - 30,400 - 32,150 - 29,600 - 36,700
Invoice --------- 25,460 - 27,050 - 27,825 - 29,414 - 27,095 - 33,555
ED-MSRP --- 25,855 - 27,480 - 28,270 - 29,900 - 27,530 - 34,130
ED-Invoice --- 23,530 - 25,005 - 25,725 - 27,210 - 25,050 - 31,060
Said another way, your hypothetical 325i SP could have been had for about $28,930 for a domestically sourced car and $26,500 via ED.
By the way, what's with the attitude? The folks around here are generally very helpful and accurate with the information they provide.
Best Regards,
Shipo
I wouldn't be buying this as my day to day driver. I would not be maintaining or repairing the car myself.
Car #1: 325i; $19,995/11,929 miles. Auto. NJ Dealer says "Certified Pre-Owned" but not clear if its the extended warranty or not (weird). Premium Package. Titanium/Silver
Car #2: 325i; $17,800/19.5K miles. Auto. "Little old lady" in NJ scenario--garaged, one owner, used only on weekends, etc. Titanium/Black
Car #3: 325i; $18,990/20K miles. Manual. Dealer in NJ. Not CPO. Sunroof. Titanium/???
Car #4: 330i; $22,995/11,325 miles. Manual. Boise, Idaho dealer. Not CPO. No packages. Blue/???
Car #5: 330i; $22,500/21K miles. Auto. Private seller in Boca Raton, FL. Premium package. One owner, garaged in Florida. Titanium/Gray
Would prefer an auto/manumatic but not crucial. Not tied to the extra hp of the 330 but of course it would be nice. Just want the feel of the BMW more than anything. The fact that cars #1-3 are all in NJ is a plus. I live in Massachusetts. Leaning towards #1 or #2 right now. In general are these well-priced specimens?
You aren't likely to find many CPO 2002 models, because they'd only have 1 year left on the CPO warranty, unless they are 2-owner cars, and have been previously CPOed..
Otherwise, Car #3, because it is a manual.. Nice low miles.. some room to move on the price..
Extra oomph from the 330i is nice, but if you get a manual, it is definitely not worth an extra $3K-$4K..
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It is well maintained.. Dealer maintained. Has 4 yr 50K miles warranty from date of lease.
Car Description.
*EXCELLENT Condition. Nothing wrong with the car interior as well as exterior.
*Mileage 31,500 miles.
*Dark Blue exterior, with dark beige leather interior.
*Sports Package
*Cold Weather Package
*Premium Package
*Automatic Transmission
*Moon Roof
*Sports Seats
*Rain Sensing Wipers
The bank is asking for $22,120 to purchase the car.
1. Is it a good value?
2. Is this price negotiable? if so, how much can we go lower (From anyone's experience)?
3. What would you do? Pass or purchase?
All opinions valued and welcomed. Thanks for helping out on the decision, and perhaps I may become a regular here if I become a new BMW Owner.
It's a good, fair retail price. Bargain of the century? No. Cheaper than a dealer? Yes. Cheaper than dealer auction wholesale? No.
In California, this car with comparable miles would sell private party for around $22000--$24,000 or so, I would guess from looking at ads. Similar cars with under 25,000 miles seem to have asking prices around $26K.
I agree with Shifty... it is a very fair price, for a nice low-mileage car with a lot of options. Also, you should have a year of warranty left..
If you are in the market for this type of car, and you like this one, grab it..
regards,
kyfdx
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The car is leased through Chase Finance.
So Far, I've managed to negotiate a price of $20,781.
I will keep you guys informed as I try to negotiate a bit more.
Thanks for your opinion so far, and more opinions welcomed, negative or positive..
What are you waiting for?
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Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-2021 Sahara 4xe-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Car #2 2003 BMW 330xi 32k miles, premium package (Chevy dealer, not CPO). Clean Carfax and nice car but on test drive had vibration at highway speed like a wheel was not balanced properly. Told salesman I woouldn't consider car until I could test it again without vibration. He said we could make a deal contingent on this being satisfactorily resolved but I won't negotiate till I can get a good test drive. I thought I could use this car to help with BMW dealer negotiations.
Anyway car 2 would be great if not for vibration problem.
What would be a reasonable offer for Car 1?
As for the asking price of the 325xi, it sounds about right. To confirm this go to BMW NA's CPO model search and find comparable cars within a few hundred miles of your location. I've found that there is usually $1000-$3000 of wiggle room built into the price, depending on the car, the dealer, and how long the unit has been on the lot. I'd offer $24,000 and be happy with a final number around $26,000+TTL.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-2021 Sahara 4xe-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
For the 330xi I have a good BMW mechanic to inspect it. I don't need or crave the extra power however. Also a review of posts at edmunds shows a lot of tire complaints with the 2003 330xi and I suspect the vibration is a tire issue.
Thanks in advance