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Well, maybe not if it looked like an Aztec, we have to draw the line somewhere.
Um. er, Ford.... I was the owner of the notorious Windstall so I will admit to having that bias. You've no doubt heard all the stories of what those things were prone to - popping engine seals, melting transmissions, electrical glitches, etc. Well, all you have to do is mention something those pieces of (insert your expletive here) were prone to and mine had it. It was OK, not great but not awful, on reliability until it hit 80K. Then things started popping like mad.
In a tiny bit of fairness to the vehicle the dealer was an idiot, which is to say that when teh first engine seal popped my intuition said replace all the seals because you've got the engine out and seals are a known issue. No such thing. "No they tested fine." And popped weeks later. Then the tranny melted to the tune of $1800.
So on to corporate Ford since the dealer was offering no relief. They treated us like lepers! Arrogant, snotty people. They got me in a screaming match and my wife says "You're getting too worked up. Let me talk to them." Within two minutes they had her screaming louder than me. The last thing I remember her saying was "It's a good thing these things have such a good safety rating because I don't know when the next time it's gonna die in teh middle of the road with a couple of kids in it!"
Until I start hearing something that says corporate Ford has changed their attitude they'll be getting my dollar. too abd because they've made, and still make, some attractive cars.
On contrast, I had the Ody transmission crash. With virtually no discussion they paid for the entire replacement and rented me a vehicle while they did it. Ironically they rented me an Explorer....
I would say that I have a brand preference (Honda) but that does not hold sway if they do not offer the best vehicle for my needs at the time that I'm ready to buy. On point, I recently Purchased my first Subaru since none of the brands that I have owned offer a vehicle that is both suitable as a daily driver as well as utility use, including modest towing. Honda's smallest vehicle with a tow rating is the CRV which is too large for commuting and has an automatic transmission only. "Loyalty" can only go so far.
Since I've owned 12 Japanese vehicles (of 6 manufacturers) vs 2 British, one German and one Italian (Vespa), It appears that I also have a national preference, but that is only because Japan has offered the most reliable vehicles over the past 35+ years. The VW GTI is an enticing choice today but I can't accept the risk that VW's reliability history suggests. Unfortunately, my own country has lead neither in automotive product reliability nor suitability. Pity!
The latter had a good powertrain (Mazda sourced), but the interior fell apart bit by bit. It was OK for cheap wheels at the time, but I don't miss it.
1968 Buick Special Deluxe
1979 Buick Park Avenue
1988 Buick Park Avenuw
2005 Buick LaCrosse
1975 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1989 Cadillac Brougham
1994 Cadillac DeVille
2002 Cadillac Seville STS
ALL have been extremely reliable and a pleasure to drive. I need to look nowhere else for my automotive purchases.
But, another 1979 New Yorker followed me home on Saturday, so that was the tie-breaker.
For me the others were:
1979 Oldsmobile Ninety-Eight Regency
1979 Ford LTD
1985 Chrysler Fifth Avenue
1987 Chevrolet Caprice Classic
1988 Ford LTD Crown Victoria LX
1989 Mercury Grand Marquis LS
Oh yeah, I forgot about my '88 LeBaron, which I bought off my uncle when I was married, and gave to the ex-wife when we split as part of the settlement. So of all the brands I've had, looks like Chrysler was in the lead, anyway. Actually, I think I mentally blocked out that LeBaron on purpose! :P
1997 Escort
1999 Expedition
2002 Explorer
2003 Focus
We've had 3 Saturns ('03 L300, '04 VUE and '06 ION), 1 Honda and 1 VW in the past 10 years, along with the Fords.
So, at the moment, we are loyal to Saturn for the following reasons:
1) we qualify for the GM Supplier discount
2) the plastic side panels .. which are going away with the new models
3) the dealership experience .. cannot afford a Lexus; this is the best customer service I've ever had from a dealer
(Gee, you'd think I could qualify for a 'frequent buyer' discount or something!)
1965 Wildcat conv.
1975 Apollo
1988 Regal
1979 Electra 225 coupe
1999 P/A Ultra
2004 Ranier
Yeah, I always liked those too. I think my favorite Electras are the mammoth '75-76 4-door hardtops, but I like the downsized '77-79 models too. Preferably with a 403. I think the '80-84 is a sharp looking car too, but by that time they killed all the good engines. You could get an Olds 350 in 1980 as an option (307 was standard), but from '81-84 you were limited to the 252 V-6, 307 V-8, or the Diesel 350.
In 1985, when the little FWD model came out, they initially called them Electra 300 and Electra 380, in relation to engine size (3.0 or 3.8 V-6)
So I'm guessing the Diesel Electra might've had a "430" badge on it. Also, I goofed on what Buick called their trim levels in 1985. The actual model names were Electra (base) Electra Park Ave (luxury model) and Electra T-type (sporty model). My Consumer Guide is also showing that the 3.8 was standard. However, here's a link to an old Consumer Reports comparison test that had an Electra, and they say the 3.0 was standard, with the 3.8 being a $260 option.
The '85 Electra/Ninety-Eight/DeVille had an extra long model year though. I think they were actually introduced in the spring of 1984. So maybe the 3.0 was standard in early models, and then later on in the model year they decided to just make the 3.8 standard?
I didn't know they had a 3.0. I thought the 2.8l V6 got punched to 3.1l. Did the 98/Park Ave platform go FWD in 85 or was it still RWD for another year?
You can thank GM's divisions still having a lot of their own engines for that confusion. Buick came out with a 3.0 version of their 3.8 V-6, for 1982 I believe. It was used mainly in the Century and Cutlass Ciera. I think the Omega and Skylark X-cars still used Chevy 2.8's. It had a 2-bbl carb, and was rated at 110 hp, interestingly the same as the larger 3.8 2-bbl.
For 1985, when the Grand Am/Calais/Somerset Regal were introduced, they got a fuel injected version that put out 125 hp. Also, I just looked in another used car book I have, that covers 1977-86, and it does show the 1985 Electra/98 offering the 3.0 2-bbl V-6.
I think the 3.0 was dropped after 1985 in everything except the Grand Am and its siblings. Centurys and Cieras started phasing in the Chevy 2.8, with a Buick 3.8 being optional.
The Chevy 2.8 is the one that got enlarged to 3.1, and eventually it started showing up in most of GM's midsized/compact offerings, but I don't think that was until around 1990 or so. Also, Buick tried fielding yet another version of their 3.8. I think it was a 3.3, and offered for a few years in the Century/Ciera, before they all just went to 3.1's.
And yeah, 1985 was the year that GM downsized their C-bodies. However, Cadillac kept a RWD version around, calling it simply "Brougham".
I am buying a 2007 Elantra for my daughter. My brother has a 1998 Elantra with 140,000 miles and it has been a perfect car with only one minor repair. No reason to pay $2k more for the smaller Civic if she is going to drive it for 5-7 years and put tons of mileage on it.
Loyalty? I would have to say that I am very loyal to Honda and Hyundai. Nissan doesn't have a car I want so I'll stick with Hyundai and Honda.
For some reason, in the 80s he got an Olds instead, and then he switched to Fords for a while.
I think he left GM because he liked the Explorer better than the first 4 door Blazers, which were pieced together a bit much for his tastes.
He had a bad Taurus and now drives an Outback.
No loyalty from him!
PLUS, seeing as how all 6 have been in the past 6-7 years, you also have owned one long enough to make much of a reliability/longevity judgement.
I'm not knocking nissan. I think they are good. I'm just saying it seems a bit premature on your part to be so loyal. Kinda like marrying the first girl ya kiss, no? ;b
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
IIRC, the Nissan Altima is something like 65% domestic content. So in addition to being assembled in the United States, it's a safe bet that a lot of its components were sourced from the US as well.
The domestics and imports actually share a lot of parts nowadays. GM makes automatic transmissions for BMW. The a/c compressor in my Dodge Intrepid is supposedly the same component as what's in a Honda Accord. My a/c is failing, BTW, so who do I blame? The Japanese or the Americans? Or the Germans, maybe, since Chrysler was under their control by the time my car was made? :P
I've also heard varying opinions on Nissan quality. Not enough to scare me away from ever buying one, but I'm not going to blindly put them up on a pedestal, either. My Mom & stepdad had a 91 Stanza that was in need of some pretty steep repairs by the 90,000 mile mark. Among them, the tranny and exhaust system. I've personally known a few examples of the 2.4 4-cyl and the 3.0 V-6 from that era that had timing chains fail prematurely and reduce the engine to rubbish. The tranny in my Mom & stepdad's '99 Altima crapped out at 35,000 miles. But to that car's credit, tranny #2, which was put in under warranty, is doing fine and I'm sure that car has about 240,000 miles on it by now.
And I've heard some people say that these older Nissans were the durable ones, and that the new ones aren't as good! The Titan/Armada was pretty unreliable when it first came out, although they may be improved by now. Still, if you didn't have any problems with those earlier models, count yourself lucky.
Nissan does have a sort of youth appeal to it, though. A friend of mine bought an Xterra last year. He was also considering a Chevy Equinox. The "cool" factor of the Xterra is what won out, though. And I'll admit I like the 2002-06 Altima a lot, along with the new one.
While I think the (Japanese) drivetrain on my Quest is good (touching wood at 119,500 miles), my next car will be based on the most bang for the buck. Just like the Quest was, and the Voyager before it, and the good old '82 Toyota too. The other car here now is a Subaru, so I guess I'm most loyal to my bank account. :shades:
While I'm not really a fan of little cars, I've thought about trying to force myself into something smaller and more fuel-effient the next time I buy a new/new-ish car. I checked out the Versa when it first came out. Not a bad little car, although the driving position was a bit tight for me, with respect to legroom.
Move-In-Day
The change could indicate Hyundai is finally leaving behind the upstart status it has been unable to completely shake since arriving in the U.S. in the mid-1980s."
Hyundai Tops Toyota, Honda in Loyalty Study (Wall St. Journal)
The "loyalty" may just be a reflection of gas prices:
Hyundai MPG Focus Nets U.S. Sales Boost (AutoObserver)
"Hyundai said last week that it's selling more U.S. vehicles that get at least 40 miles per gallon highway than the rest of the auto industry combined, indicating that the South Korean automaker is using its emphasis on fuel economy to overcome past questions of reliability and close the gap with better known imports such as Toyota and Honda."
And the earthquake and recalls before that haven't helped Japanese automakers.
"It remains to be seen if Toyota’s brand has fully shaken the safety-recall catastrophe of 2010. Significant new products will remain spare except for Camry. Even the newly expanded Prius lineup, starved out of production by parts shortages for most of the second quarter, may find a less-than-fevered reception among American consumers as gas prices level off. Honda still must find ways to regenerate enthusiasm for its brand in a market where many rivals now equal its quality and functionality. Nissan has fared best of the three in recovering from the disaster and was able to report an 11-percent increase in June sales while its two big rivals declined."
12 Factors To Watch In Industry's Second Half
Pontiac Owners Remain Loyal to GM, Edmunds.com Study Says (Inside Line)
GM loses fewer Pontiac customers compared to other brands, that's how I'd say it. The majority still bail.
That's because Hertz, Avis, et al buy Malibus and Impalas now, instead of Grand Prixes, Bonnevilles, G6'es, and G5's.
So the rental agencies must be buying Chrysler 200s and Fusions.
Chevrolet Hoping Brand Catches Up With Products (AutoObserver)
The BRZ and FR-S take badge engineering -- the notion that you can put two brand logos on a single vehicle and convince people they're unique and different -- to depths not seen since General Motors decimated the value of its Pontiac brand with identi-cars like the Pontiac G5, which was a barely disguised Chevrolet Cobalt."
Scion FR-S, Subaru BRZ are almost identical (Detroit Free Press)
I do like how Scion was aimed at young buyers, but was embraced by the active boomer crowd. Says something about the fun to drive factor, maybe.
Or maybe the arthritis/aching joints make the low entry of tuned cars hard, and the encroaching senility makes remembering the shift patterns troublesome :shades: