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Is Cadillac's Image Dying and Does Anyone Care?



  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,706

    What ???? DVD-Audio discs don't hold 500-600 songs do they ??? I own a couple but never knew that ?

    You'll note that I said that if it played DVD-A format and also plays MP3s, it will play a DVD filled with MP3s as well, like a typical computer drive will.

    You can fit roughly 100 songs ona normal CD in MP3 format, and about 6.5 times that on a DVD in MP3 format.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I have a 1990 Cadillac brochure that includes the Allante. No where does the word Mercedes appear, much less SL beater. I think that it was the media that claimed the Allante was an SL beater, or you are claiming that Cadillac claimed the Allante was an SL beater.

    Cadillac claimed it. When have you ever seen a model brochure mention a competitor and that the word "beater" in it? This is getting more ridiculous by the post. I can't believe you actually think such a claim would be present in a brochure!

    The 1990 Allante did have traction control. I would think on icy roads the Allante probably would handle better than an SL, particularly with the stock tires.

    Whooptie do, I have a convertible that handles better in snow and ice, just what I want one for.

    If you can't sell something in sufficient numbers to be profitable, what is the point of production? The Mercedes 600 was equally a total flop and failure, in spite of its technical advantages over the Rolls.

    Total and utter BS. For one the price of the 600 was not anywhere the price of the Allante. Secondly the 600 was unlike the junkish Allante, and engineering masterpiece. How do you know that they didn't sell enough of them to make a profit? You have Mercedes' books on this? I'd love to see them. Or is this just a sillestimate born of carrying a torch for a long dead piece of junk like the Allante?

  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    Okay, clear...... :)

  • lokkilokki Posts: 1,200
    I have no idea why we're talking about a 1987 Cadillac in 2007, but hey, it's fun.

    The comparison to the Mercedes 600 is a false analogy, I think. The comparable Mercedes according to most of the links I've found on the 'net seems to be the Mercedes 560SL

    As an example,on Wickipedia (yeah, but I can quote them without copyright issues),we find this:

    Originally designed under the code name "Callisto", the Allanté was intended to restore Cadillac to its position as a credible competitor to the Mercedes-Benz 560SL. A total of 21,430 were produced.

    Cadillac Allante

    I can't seem to find production numbers for only the 560, but I did find this:

    The 560 SL was only exported to the USA, Australia and Japan, but as a detuned version with a catalytic converter and only 230 hp because of the emissions regulations in these countries. The production of the 300 SL - 560 SL ended in August 1989, more than 18 years after the first 350 SL was built. The 107 SL series thus set a record for Mercedes-Benz that is unlikely to be broken: no other Mercedes-Benz model series was produced for such a long period. A total of 237,287 of these cars came out of the Sindelfingen plant, a figure that demonstrates just how popular the 107 series was.

    Mercedes SL Info
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    The comparison to the Mercedes 600 is a false analogy, I think. The comparable Mercedes according to most of the links I've found on the 'net seems to be the Mercedes 560SL

    Yeah tell me about it, but I wasn't the one that started that mess.

  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    We just spent the weekend in our new SRX and if the CTS is like the SRX then it is pretty darn nice. My wife was really impressed by all the real thread going down the doors, IP and console(she sews as a hobby). The wood is gorgeous and seats are comfortable. The only complaint we had is the vehicle sits pretty low to what we are used to. Always felt below the other vehicles on the road. Just something she will have to get used to. Oh yea and the interior is tighter in the front than the pickup she drove or my Envoy but I guess that is to be expected since those are decent sized vehicles.
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    Glad ya like the SRX, it's a nice automobile. :)

    kd, gave me some more bad news as he showed me info showing the VUE is going to Mexico in the toyota forum. What is this country going to do with this continued flood of good jobs going south ??? I didn't know the HHR was also....

    I told him I will refuse to buy anything made in mexico if I can help it. :sick:

  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    The data is a little old but the Vue will replace these vehicles which were built at Ramos Arizpe tml

    Pontiac Aztek, Chevrolet Cavalier, Chevrolet Chevy, Pontiac Sunfire, Buick Rendezvous

    In actuality the HHR is being built there and the others are now gone so the plant was pretty empty and has room for the VUE.

    They also have the Silao which builds full size trucks and Toluco which build HD trucks.

    So GM has 3 assembly plants in Mexico supplying vehicles to all of NA. In NA they will have a total of 24 which includes Oshawa in Canada. There is a 4rth plant being built which is supposed to build subcompact cars for mexico and South America.
  • rwisemrwisem Posts: 96
    Rocky, With your family's connection to the auto industry, I'm surprised you don't appreciate the border country plants.

    In the early days of the auto, Canada and Mexico had very little domestic production - and later, none. The most prominate Canadian company was bought out by GM. Within a space of a couple of decades, the balance of trade between the US and its neighbors went completely out of whack due to the exportation of US cars.

    In a spirit of cooperation, the US companies built plants in Canada and Mexico. These plants supplied many of the most popular models for domestic consumption in those countries, but many models were only built in the US, so there were still exports.

    The agreement acknowledged this and made provisions for exports of certain vehicles BACK to the US to roughly even out the values going back and forth.

    The US industry is really a North American industry and has operated as such for at least 80 years.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    I have high hopes for this new CTS' interior, however I would reserve my judgment until I actually got a chance to sit in there. Because it only takes one piece of hard plastic (of course, not including the metallic part) for it to drop to the same level as G35.

    During my G35 test drive I was very impressed with the new interior, especially the washi aluminum trim. However, that quickly changed after I found out that the bottom part of the door panels was made out of hard plastic...
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    Your post exaggerating the difference in horsepower between the Allante and the 560SL did start the so called "mess".

    My point about the 600 was that it was a flop, as you claimed the Allante was.

    Whether a particular vehicle is a "flop" depends on what the expectations are, and to some extent depends on whether it was a money maker or not. Shifty explained that Mercedes built the 600 for prestiage purposes and, I think, wanted to sell enough of them to get a presence in the larger cities of the world. Whether 2500 would be enough to do that is a useful question, but this is not the proper forum for a debate on that subject.

    Did the Allante accomplish for Cadillac what was expected? I think that the Allante was a two passenger convertible in the same body style that the Mercedes SL was at the time. The SL was not the sports car that it started out as in the 1950's with the 300SL Gullwing. Cadillac and Buick must have planned the Reatta and Allante in the early 80's to get them into production for the 1987 model year. At that time GM was concerned about fuel consumption, which is the basic reason for converting the full size sedans to front wheel drive in the mid-80's. The Allante did add a convertible model to the Cadillac line up, and sold at a rate that was comparable to the Eldorado convertibles of the 1950's, and 60's. The Allante was very expensive, where the Eldorado was not.

    The car magazines all suggested that the Allante was expected to steal sales from the Mercedes SL, but I think that was a silly idea, which I doubt came from Cadillac. However, I think Cadillac may have expected the Allante to make some sort of market on its own. I think it did fairly well considering the price tag. I think that the Seville Turing Sedan (STS), with the northstar engine, captured the car magazines attention, so Cadillac retired the Allante after the 93 model year, since the new FWD STS was a better flagship model. The Allante was a much nicer looking Cadillac in 1987 than the FWD DeVille was, and the Seville looked much like a Pontiac Grand Am.
  • A better analogy would be today's Saturn Sky and the current Mazda Miata. These are obviously two "competitors" but once again GM has produced a very attractive body attached to a machine that needs a lot of catching up to do, to be a Mazda inside. In other words, Cadillac made a 1973 Mercedes SL in 1988, and Saturn has just made a 1990 Miata in 2006.

    Fortunately, Saturn "got" this gap problem by producing (has it come out yet?) a turbo version with I presume a 6 speed manual transmission. Saturn doesn't have to re-invent the wheel---just catch up fast if they know what's good for them. No waiting years for engine upgrades----FATAL!!

    I haven't really looked at the interiors of all the Cadillac models, so I can't comment on this "plastics" issue....but I can say the "plastics issue" does exist on the new Corvette. There's more of it than I expect to see on a car of that price. But then, in Corvette's case, you are getting Ferrari performance at quite a discount, so critics could just keep quiet about the plastic and enjoy the ride.
  • gsemikegsemike Long Island, NYPosts: 1,743
    The way that the Vette performs for the money, you can't really complain about the interior. It's a clear step forward from the last gen. At least you can get a power seat.
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Posts: 3,062
    The current TL isn't in the same league and the G35 doesn't have the quality and fit and finish of the new CTS.

    As others have said, have to wait and see/touch/sit in new 2008 CTS. Cadillac will progress quite a bit if its new interior can match the previous gen Acura TL let alone the current model.
  • lokkilokki Posts: 1,200
    The next Caddy is always the one, just as it has been since 1975.

    There's a beautiful Caddy
    you know they promise it tomorrow.
    It's the most beautiful sight
    that you'll ever see.
    I know it's only a day away
    and it's always in the future.
    But it's that something to look forward to
    that brings me closer to GM.
    Do you remember the time
    we said we'd love GM until forever?
    Till all the cars on the highway
    turned one by one into Japanese.
    I know comeback's just a day away
    and it's always in the future

    Apologies to James Barclay Harvest

    It looks great in the pictures, but so did the Seville, the Allante, the STS, the Cimmaron, and the Diesel and the Catera.

    Let's wait till the public gets a chance to drive them for a few months.

    I really like the looks of the new (2nd time round) CTS, but I liked the looks of the Seville and the Allante too. Let's see whether Lucy yanks the football away again before we give it hero's honors.

    Remember, we know that Toyota screws one up on occasion, even when they look good in the pictures. I suppose it could happen to GM too.
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    I am not sure that the Allante was the equal of the Mercedes SL, which in 1987 was still the 1973 model. The Allante's basic problem was front wheel drive I think, not a lack of horsepower.

    The Saturn Sky and Pontiac Solstice are a bit heavier, with a stiffer body, than the Miata (or whatever it is called now), and, with about the same horsepower, have a bit less performance. However, the reviews that I have read, suggest that the Sky/Solstice are better riding.

    I really don't know how Cadillac interiors compare with the highend imports, as there are no dealers in highend imports here. I do know that the CTS interior had the door panels covered with plastic that had at best a firm feel to it. I am not sure about the old SRX interior, and I need to check that out. The new SRX interior has a nicer look, but the door panels still have a firm feel to them.

    I did read that the Corvette's plastics were supposed to have a much nicer finish on them, but somehow that was canceled and the poorer finish remained.
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    The 1992 Seville was a nice looking car, with a decent interior design. It may have been Motor Trend's car of the year, but I am not sure.

    The CTS's interior for 2008 will I think compare with the 2007 SRX interior, much nicer, but the feel may still lack some of the softness that I at least associate with luxury.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    The SRX doors are have a vinyl covering w/o padding. I think thick soft padding is something from the past but I be incorrect.
  • Dream On! The only product that competes with the Euro and Asian Luxo sport sedans is the Cadillac CTS. And I'm not sure if that car competes on all levels

    Cadillac has to be recognized as coming a long, long way in the last 10 years. They offer products that do compete with Lexus and BMW/Mercedes ect.. The leaders in Cadillac need to stay on course with new products to entice people to visit showrooms. Thier image is getting better year after year to be on par with best luxo sedans from Europe and Asia. Give credit where cedit is well earned. Great work Cadillac!
  • Compact Audio Discs may become obsolete in the future. Some may consider them obsolete already. They certainly are for me.

    What ???? DVD-Audio discs don't hold 500-600 songs do they ??? I own a couple but never knew that ?

    You'll note that I said that if it played DVD-A format and also plays MP3s, it will play a DVD filled with MP3s as well, like a typical computer drive will.

    You can fit roughly 100 songs ona normal CD in MP3 format, and about 6.5 times that on a DVD in MP3 format
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