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Not nearly as bad as Lincoln, though
Actually it is pretty easy at Lincoln. The models are all MK_. BMW uses numbers that on one side are easy 1,3,5,7 but on the other nonsensical 28, 35 etc.
335i > 328i
550i > 535i > 528i
760i > 750i
Usually trophy wives don't care what's under the hood...
R&T rated the G35 better than the CTS in the comparison. The G35's smaller size and less weight gave it an edge in performance and handling.
I know! Bring on the smaller BTS!!! and push the CTS up about $15-17K!!!
OK but they have to offer something to bring those BMW or Mercedes buyers over to Cadillac and keep the buyers they have. Does them little good to only sell to their current buyers.
= = =
While I agree with statements 1 & 2, I disagree with #3.
If Caddy does build something unique & American, I think that they CAN sell it. Particularly if the Price is Right. Even if expensive.
I look to Chevy. The Corvette ( full disclosure here: I drive a 2007 Coupe ) is rather expensive, compared to most other Chevys. Yet they sell in volumes that allow GM to 1) make a profit & 2) make a GM ‘flagship’.
The XLR sells in very low volumes, true enough. Yet sharing parts & platform with the Corvette allows the XLR to survive. And the XLR-v. ( And I applaud Caddy for investing the time & $$s in all the ‘v-series’ cars. )
I happen to disagree with a couple of aspects of Caddy’s approach \ direction in all but the CTS-v, however. My sense is that the ( very expensive ) STS-v and XLR-v are priced largely according to the very sophisticated and expensive powerplants under their hoods. STS-v for 2008 = approx. $76K and the XLR-v is over $97K.
My opinion is that both the STS-v and the XLR-v could have been equipped with a larger, normally aspirated, simpler & cheaper motor – and would have sold much better. If they had been equipped with ( for example ) the 6.2L V8, from the 2008 Corvette – or even the 400 HP 6.0L V8 ( with 400\400 HP\TQ ) instead of the supercharged NorthStar, they would likely have had very similar acceleration and been a whole lot less expensive to develop & to produce. And to sell. That would clearly have been a large ‘step up’ from the NorthStar – at 320 \ 315 HP\TQ, and now offering barely improved acceleration compared to the new 300+ HP DI V6 available in the 2008 STS.
The XLR-v, with the s/c NorthStar posts almost identical acceleration numbers to my 2007 Corvette w/automatic. (The automatic trans. is essentially identical in both cars.) For nearly $100 Grand.
Though this lovely ( and expensive ) 4.4L s/c motor makes more HP and marginally more TQ than the 6.0L V8 in the Corvette, they are so close in acceleration largely due to the XLR-v’s much greater weight – 3800#+ vs the Corvette at close to 3200#.
The STS-v with 469 HP and 439 TQ is a 13.2 second sedan, according to R&T’s test. I’d bet that with the current Corvette’s 430 HP & 424 TQ would be capable of a mid- to high 13 second quarter. And would feel ‘just as quick’ and \ or ‘just as fast’ to 90+% of potential buyers. And it might very well also even feel ‘more American’ than the s/c NorthStar.
And these cars could then have been marketed at something like a ( clearly, I am guessing here ) $10K or more ‘discount’, compared to those ‘-v’ cars actual MSRPs. I think an STS-v at closer to $63K or $64K would have been much more likely to develop into a sales success for Caddy. At almost $75K to start, the STS-v pricing makes for difficult volume sales – even for a Caddy. Note that $63K - $64K qualifies as “very expensive”, to me. But I believe that Caddy ** COULD ** sell the STS-v in significantly higher volumes at this MSRP \ Price Point.
Said another way, if GM had decided to ‘pull ahead’ development of the 6.2L V8, instead of developing that s/c & hand-built version of the NorthStar, and plug the n/a 6.2L V8 into the STS-v at launch – and the Corvette a year later, perhaps – this would have been far better received. And would have sold better.
Again, I mean no disrespect to the NorthStar motor. GM’s continued development of “regular” V8s strongly suggests to me that this would have been a better, as well as cheaper, route to an STS-v and an XLR-v. And partly here again I am considering that “different, but American” aspect.
And I suspect that the 6.2L V8 is actually cheaper to produce than the base, 4.6L n/a NorthStar V8 – whereas the s/c NorthStar is clearly MUCH more expensive. Thus, an STS-v with the 6.2L V8 and 1SG level of equipment, plus a few unique touches, could probably be sold at a very modest ‘markup’ over a ‘regular’, NorthStar 1SG. Currently priced at roughly $61K MSRP.
The same would apply to the XLR-v.
And I will reiterate here that I would really, REALLY like to see Caddy succeed – and establish itself as a top tier Luxury Sports Brand. The 2008 CTS appears to be a large step in the right direction, though we’ll see where sales are after 6 to 9 months or a year on the market.
Just my 0.02 gallons worth . . .
I could be wrong.
Cheers,
- Ray
Considering the Corvette, with top option group, to be nearly as much a luxury GT car as the XLR, for much less money and featuring better acceleration ( highly American ) to boot . . .
However, putting the pushrod engines in the higher end Cadillac's to make V-series performance sedans is not what the market wants - it may be what you want, but you should buy the Pontiac G8. The true luxury performance sedan market is expecting refinement more like the AMG Mercedes models - the 6.2 liter V8.
The truth of the matter is, you are not going to bring a current BMW or Mercedes owner over to Cadillac.
Those people have drunk the Germans kool-aid, and aren't gonna change.
Unless their portfolios tank.
The people you CAN influence are the ones who are moving up from mass market cars, who maybe cannot afford a Bimmer or Benz, or lux buyers from other brands with less pedigree. Lexus, Audi, Infiniti, Volvo, SAAB(throwing that in for Rocky, even though they don't really belong).
As far as Saab, goes they are getting better but would agree their is work that still needs to be done. I assume by the end of this decade Saab, will be completely overhauled or nearly overhauled.
-Rocky
However, I'll admit that it'll probably be harder for the loyal German owners to switch since they have been under German kool-aid poisoning for a long time. It'll be much easier for the younger buyers with less experience to consider Caddy because they simply have less to compare to. That's why I think the most important thing Caddy needs right now is a successful entry level program that can rival BMW's 3-series.
Get them while they are young and dont let go.
Oh puh-leez.
Yes, Cadillac may be more reliable, yes it is certainly cheaper.
But, you have ALOT to learn about what motivates,or de-motiavtes car buyers.
Esp luxury ones.
Lux cars are bough primarily on image and cachet.
Cadillac's image is well below the Germans. It just is.
Well not on the entry-level (CTS) and on the Truck/SUV (Escalade)
Still even to this day people will still use the phrase that........ is the "Cadillac" of ..........!
-Rocky
I was eyeing up a leftover black 2007 DTS Performance, but I didn't give in to temptation.
I always said that the LS 600hL is the Cadillac of Lexus.
But yeah I get what you are saying !!!
-Rocky
P.S. lemko, you need to take one (CTS) for a drive. Now that would be as tempting as being in a room with Jessica Simpson :P
OK.
Not Mercedes people :P
-Rocky
P.S. I do not understand how you don't like your SRX :confuse: I'd love to own one.
-Rocky
-Rocky
I'm not much for SUVs, but the SRX is a lot more attractive than most of those vehicles out there. It kind of reminds me of a CTS wagon. The SRX certainly would benefit from a CTS-like interior treatment.
Salesman at the dealership called me last night. Says he has a leftover loaded 2007 DTS Performance in black with 0% financing and incentives. I really shouldn't, at least not at this time of year. He'd really have to make an extraordinary deal for me to go for it.
They will have cash on the hood by summer and are much cheaper MSRP unless like you said he gives you one heck of a deal on the DTS.
-Rocky
-Rocky
Dynamically, the CTS has a way to go.
As for the Escalade, its a hopped up Tahoe that no self respecting German engineer or designer is at all scared of.
compared to ?
As for the Escalade, its a hopped up Tahoe that no self respecting German engineer or designer is at all scared of.
Well they might not be scared of it but it sure takes a huge chunk of their potential market away as the slade is the #1 Luxury SUV sold.
-Rocky
-Loren
-Rocky
The proper comparison for the CTS is to the E-class anyway.
Magnetic ride is not available on the V-series STS, and is only available on one trim level on the base STS model. My impression is that Magnetic ride at Cadillac is more for ride than handling. My tires are 50 series, while the base tires on the SRX are 60's in front and 55's in back. My tires should improve handling a bit over the standard tires. But I wanted them so I could rotate tires and hopefully have them all last longer. The limited slip rear axle should help on icy roads too.
The GX470 is a gussied up 4Runner/Prado.
The Sequoia does not have a Lexus derivative.
Uh, the Germans.
Look at the fit/finish of a Benz, Bimmer, Audi.
Look at the quality of the plastics,materials.
Well they might not be scared of it but it sure takes a huge chunk of their potential market away as the slade is the #1 Luxury SUV sold.
I see you already have your salespersons hat on.
Just because Caddy gives more of them away doesn't make it the best.
No way an Escalade would ever make it around the Nurburgring.
It's ponderous with a capital P.
No way an Escalade would ever make it around the Nurburgring.
It's ponderous with a capital P.
Not sure what american will ever want to take his SUV around the Nurburgring. Not what SUV's are for.
Caddy sold 52,000 Escalades last year for about an average of about $65k. No truck from BMW/Mercedes/Volvo comes close to that volume at any price. Not being a salesmen but just stating facts. You may not like them and that is fine but the public in general does.