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Comments
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/03/06/nada-luxury-segment-has-the-worst-depreciatio- n/
You can't get that with a new Caddy...or even a used one!....IMO.
Regards,
OW
see it here
Hmmm. Back in the day, Cadillac built flashy, gadget-laden cars while Packard built the good old-fashioned luxury cars. We know how that turned out.
The RWD Fleetwood with the pushrod engine is probably the best old Cadillac to have.
When Better Cars Are Built, Buick Will Build Them!
You got that right! My 1989 Cadillac Brougham is still with me after all these years!
Yeah, Studebaker DRAGGED them to the grave kicking and screaming.
You can't get that with a new Caddy...or even a used one!....IMO."
But unlike the Bimmer or Benz, cooterbfd wouldn't need an on-board mechanic for his Caddy, either...
I agree completely! I just would rather drive than lounge! It's worth the extra cash to fix it every week for the pure driving enjoyment.
Some get everything from Cadillac and some don't!
Regards,
OW
I agree completely!
Then, I guess you would say that Caddy is on Par w/ the Germans, just in a different way.
If the Germans made rolling sofas and GM made the best engineered cars in the world....
I like to drive not lounge. The CTS would be the only Caddy I would consider at this time...after they get over the "Art and Science" kick. I do not like the edges.
But they seem to be getting the point now that the bleeding is at full force.
Check out Michigan housing values these days. It didn't have to be that way. I am SURE I am not the only defector to the competition due to the blatant disregard to impending changes that other global competitors implemented long ago. Expecting big changes without really changing anything is the definition of....? Now change is fully apparent and I applaud it.
Just my humble opinion.
Regards,
OW
Regards,
OW
Better engines and higher quality (but poorer reliability) makes the German high-end stand out from the Buick or DeVille.
So indeed, german luxury cars are "rolling sofas."
Read Car and Driver's review of the 6-Series coupe if you don't believe me.
I don't see how you can think Cadillac is on par with the Germans. Cadillac is like the P-51 Mustang used during WWII. Get used to it.
Yeah, Studebaker DRAGGED them to the grave kicking and screaming.
I own a Studebaker...and it always cracks me up when I hear/read that Studebaker killed Packard.
Packard had serious quality issues in '55 and '56 that the whole industry knew about. A good read is James Ward's book "The Death of the Packard Motor Car Co.", available at most libraries. Yes, Studebaker misrepresented its breakeven point during buyout negotiations, which is terrible, but Packard was down to selling only 27,000 cars in '54, BEFORE its quality problems started. Their '56 sales were down 67% from '55 (Stude's were down 33%). In Feb. '56 Packard only built 200 cars. By '56, Packard was the bigger loser--that's why they went away and Stude stayed. In '57, with an unchanged Stude line, the corporate loss was reduced 75% without Packard. And Stude had a mild hit in the '57 Scotsman and a very big hit in the '59 Lark, all when Nance and Edsel were failing (Nance was the last president of Packard and went to Edsel).
Bill
Let us know.
The only reason the Germans lost the air war is because they did not have enough planes compared to the US. The Me109 was the best there was at the time.
Regards,
OW
Regards,
OW
Replying to: circlew (Mar 07, 2008 10:52 pm)
Actually, the only German luxury cars that aren't entirely luxury cruisers would be the entry-level ones (335i, A4, etc) or M-Series/AMG variants. The S-Class and 5 and 7-Series sedans are no more spirited in their dynamics than a Lucerne or DeVille.
If you really believe that then you have obviously never driven a 5 series or a 7 series.
I agree completely! I just would rather drive than lounge! It's worth the extra cash to fix it every week for the pure driving enjoyment.
Some get everything from Cadillac and some don't!
Lucky for you Caddy makes models for you that are no longer the old US mainstream lounge riders. The CTS and the STS offer the same ride and handling characteristics of the Geman imports.
Besides, the STS is history anyway. The CTS is the only car with performance potential that might carry on. Who knows? They might discontinue just as I am warming to the fact that they are finally making a decent model.
I'll take a Corvette fo the weekend, though.
Regards,
OW
The 6-Series:
"2007 BMW 650i - An Above Average Driving Machine, But Not Really the Ultimate."
"Not as impressive as its skidpad performance is the way the 650i feels when driven hard. The clutch and the shifter are Jenny Craig-lite, almost too much so for a few of our test drivers, and as perfectly matched to the smooth 4.8-liter V-8 as golden sponge cake is to light, creamy filling. But when the road starts turning, things get flabby."
"A 53/47 front-to-rear weight distribution is less balanced than most Bavarians parked in our lot, and despite its high lateral limits, the 650i's chassis isn't as talkative as others from BMW. Pushed past 8/10ths on a rough road, the 650i is scary. Suspension movements get frantic, and the slightly numb steering refuses to tell the driver exactly what the front tires are doing to keep things planted and pointed down the road."
"Driven fast, the 650i feels every fraction of its 73-inch width and 190-inch length. A hope and a prayer might do the trick, but the most reassuring way to handle this coupe in the twisties is to dial the speedo down a few notches, and that's not something we like to say or do."
The 7-Series:
"Which brings us to the 750i's downside... It is so adept at quickly covering ground... and so quiet, smooth, and compliant doing so that the experience has become more numbing than involving. Whereas the previous-generation 7 was the big-sedan epitome of creating a driver-to-machine relationship, the current-generation car... is proficient at taking the driver to new performance levels without the driver's really feeling as if he were part of the process. ...But it seems that a BMW should drive more like a BMW and not like an extremely capable, extremely quick Lexus."
Edmunds take on the 7:
Even though it tends toward the esoteric, the current BMW 7 Series has proven quite popular, largely because of its superb driving experience. Here BMW has applied its arsenal of technology to great advantage, as features like self-stiffening antiroll bars, self-leveling air springs and adaptive shock absorbers work together to keep the big sedan stable when driven hard. In addition, all 7s have BMW's trademark steering feel, such that the driver feels an unquantifiable connection to the car.
Here is another from "The Truth About Cars"
The 750i is a bit like a newly retired boxer; it's not quite as sharp as it was, but it's still a Hell of a lot sharper than anyone but world heavyweight contenders. BMW needs to recognize what the brand's supposed to be and build a Club Sport 7-Series– if only to prove a point. (Remember: ultimate driving came first, luxury clocked-in later.) The Boys from Bavaria should lower the 7's suspension, fatten-up those wheels, slot in a six-speed manual, lose the iDrive, ditch the sound deadening, amp-up the exhaust and away we go.
That is why BMW teamed with Alpina to create the B7 which will toast everything in it's class...again, if you like driving.
No car is perfect just better in a particular category.
In the end, you buy what you like. As far as the standard for luxury, it is really in your own mind.
Regards,
OW
Regards,
OW
Regards,
OW
As for the BMW, it's not bad either but those wheels look better on the S2000 CR. :P
The CTS was never meant to compete with premium sedans like the 5-Series or Infiniti M45, but auto jpurnalists are still comparing the two.
In fact, Car and Driver recently compared the 2008 CTS to the 2008 Infiniti M45, a car in a higher class. Regardless of price, guess which car Car and Driver picked? THe more expensive Infiniti?
Nope! The Cadillac CTS! Only a brand that can rightly be called the "Standard of the World" can do that...
Car and Driver: 2008 Standard of the World beats the 2008 Infiniti M45.
.
What's interesting to note is the Forum Moderator posted the pic of that Caddy not just a regular Joe on this message board.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Regards,
OW
Regards,
OW
I think Infiniti will get there first; they're pretty close already. It should be interesting to see what they do for the M50, and what if anything Cadillac does for a CTS V8.
You might have made the same comment about the 328i or be even closer to the point with the 1-Series.
As with all BMW products, their most economical is always also the funnest to drive, but the 7-Series is the best car.
I don't care what you and circlew says, driving dynamics suitable for a small, agile, fun-to-drive car with "Stunning chassis, superb reflexes, telepathic steering" and the other goofy adjectives Car and Driver magazine throws at small cars that are nimble and economical do not make the luxury sport sedan. This is why the CTS is beating the BMW 3-Series; the world is tired of small, nimble, fun-to-drive cars dressed in goofy adjectives by the press -- cars that don't cut it when real sport and real luxury and substance is brought into the equation.
Fall in love with silly journalism like, "The BMW has steering that's so precise, the steering rack seems wrapped in fine silk imported from China" all you want, but in the end, you'll be paying off a $499 lease on a car that's considered basic transportation for taxi fleets elsewhere on the globe.
Regards,
OW
Can touch this:
Actually it's not BMW that's "top of the line", it's Honda and the Civic si that's top of the line. And witht he Civic, you don't have to pay extra!
And there are a lot more E-class in that Caddy spec than the Caddy itself desired by buyers in every corner of the world...
Regards,
OW
I don't get the taxi bashing, is it any worse than airport lots full of rental DTS? And even CTS existing in some small fleets? I don't think so. And from what I have read, the taxi drivers want the strippo E-class more than any other ride.
I think that is exactly his point, if I'm reading right. Caddy gets KILLED here for that type of sale, yet it seems ok for MB to do it in the EU.
Brit, I would EXPECT the EU to use their branded cars, just as we see plenty of Crown Vic's and Impala's doing the dirty work here.