Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see May lease deals!
Options
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
Another problem with the fusion is the door pillars are very wide its hard to see sometimes when turning. I rented a 2012 fusion for a week and hated it.
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
Here's Car and Driver on the Accord V-6:
"...our Touring example sprinted to 60 mph in 5.6 seconds and tripped the quarter-mile lights in 14.1 seconds at 101 mph. Those figures put it solidly ahead of all its competitors and into sports-sedan territory; the Accord ties our long-term, six-speed-manual BMW 328i to 60 and trumps that car in the quarter by 0.2 second and 1 mph...."
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2013-honda-accord-sedan-v-6-test-review
If you buy at the end of the month you may be able to get vehicle for a little below invoice . Speak with the Int sales mgr. George tell him your my friend he will do the right thing by you. I'm in the Accord forum if you need me.
I'll tell you this........... i read what benjaminh posted on the Accord ratings and reviews... if the Accord V-6 came in stick what a beast it would be for the money.. I think i would enjoy this car even more. What i dont like about this model Accord is---- its to low to the ground, to small inside for me I'm 6'1 240 and when you move drivers seat back it reclines down. outside of these few things i dont like the Accord is a homerun. Most of my driving is done in bmw X-5. I have had several suv's the last 10 years so i guess i like the fact of being higher up and having a better view of the road and its easier to get in and out of the SUv's.
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
To make things worse, the rear speakers are in the doors, not in the deck lid, which would have greatly improved bass response. So, I checked out the rear deck, hoping there were pre-cut holes there for the higher-end SX Infinity system so I could add some speakers and an amp, but no dice.
So, I added an Infinity 200 watt space saving powered sub-woofer in the trunk. Total cost including installation: $300. It takes up only 1 cubic ft of space, and fattened up the bass response. The stock stereo does have 6 speakers...so the sub addition very much solves the problem.
I'm sure Honda will price their hybrid just as high as Toyota whenever it finally arrives.
However, Sonata hybrids can be had for about the same as the Sonata 4cyl Ltds even with the hybrid Ltd package. And the Hyundai hybrids have standard features not found on any other trim level of the Sonata.
A poster on another forum reputedly got over $6K off msrp of the 2013 Sonata Hybrid Ltd last week probably because the 2014s will be at dealerships soon.
No changes for the HSH powertrain for 2014 as it was extensively upgraded for my 2013 and I can personally attest to the improvements as I traded a 2011 for a 2013.
We have never gotten less than 40 mpg after 6,000 miles on the new one.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
The Accord V6 Coupe is available is available with a stick, and will make many sports car owners think twice before initiating a friendly stoplight sprint.
The Mazda 6 is a great choice too for a drivers car, perhaps the best as far a steering is concerned, but it's lack of an optional higher horsepower engine mean those looking for more zoom-zoom are shopping elsewhere. Mazda was supposed to add a 2.2 liter twin- turbo Diesel motor with an impressive 310 lb ft of torque, but I has now been delayed until late spring due to EPA certification problems.
However, while powerful, the Mazda diesel would most likely not be a high performance choice comparable with V6 Accords, turbo Son-optima's, and even the Malibu with it's 260 hp and 295 lb ft. turbo 4.
The 2.0 has more power than I need and delivers good mileage.
I'm averaging about 29 mpg overall.
You need to try several different cars and figure out which one works best for you.
My BIL thinks it's too narrow inside, but I fit in it just fine.
At some point, you mentioned AWD. None of the other cars being discussed here have that available.
I had a 2007 Fusion AWD and it was excellent in bad weather. If you compare FWD and AWD Fusions back to back, you will see they drive very differently.
I had a dispute over a repair charge (an electrical problem that was solved with a new battery). I had to tell them that I'd bought that battery within the last 48 months, so it's on warranty and the cost is pro-rated, right? The guy behind the counter says in a disgusted tone, "Yeah." Then their charge was $50 higher than I thought it should be (and $50 higher than their quote). When I got a survey mailed to me and downgraded the Service Dept. based on this experience, I expected some sort of feedback or explanation or something. Not that want to make a federal case over a $50 dispute, but I was disappointed to hear back NOTHING.
Toyota doesn't think that they need to reach out to me, it's my JOB to come back to them and buy an overpriced vehicle. I don't think so, Toyota. The Camry has been a very good car but their customer service sucks, so I'll be looking elsewhere this time around. They're indifferent, so I don't care if they don't. Have a nice life, Toyota.
This morning someone backed into it in a parking lot, damaging both left side doors.
'17 Chevy Volt Premiere
The Legacy does of course. It is often overlooked in the mid-sized field but has a lot going for it besides AWD. FE is not very competitive but it does have the AWD while no other cars in this field do. Also it's a near-twin of the new Accord to my eyes, from the side. In fact, when I saw a Legacy the other day I had to look twice to tell it was a Legacy and not the new Accord.
As far as braking, we put over 50K on the 2011 and they always worked fine.
When I test drove the 2013 Sonata Hybrid (8 miles on ODO) ice cold in city traffic with lots of stop-and-go, I could immediately tell the major upgrades to the hybrid power train got rid of all drive-ability concerns reviewers of the 2011 and 2012 models mentioned. I traded for it two days later.
And while the 2011 HSH landed on Consumer Reports used cars to avoid, the 2012 with the same power train received a better-than-average used car verdict.
After 6,000 miles with the vastly improved 2013, I expect to see it garner CRs highest used car rating. Just amazing acceleration at interstate speeds and a second-and-a-half quicker 0 to 60 than the previous version, comparable with the Fusion h.
It also got a good review from Car & Driver so fuggettabout those old reviews.
I have read many reviews stating that the alert chimes were so annoying that the first thing the driver did was turn the electronic nannies off.
Plus, many of us already have a free alert system. It is called a spouse, and I really wish I could turn that off too.
"These updates should add up to a better Sonata Hybrid, but it's still facing stiff competition from the similarly priced 2013 Ford Fusion Hybrid (47 mpg combined EPA rating) and 2013 Toyota Camry Hybrid (41 mpg combined), which offer higher mpg ratings and a more refined driving experience. If the bottom line is important to you, keep in mind that the conventional Hyundai Sonata is a better value than the hybrid sedan, as it costs several thousand dollars less and has a respectable 28 mpg combined rating"
The 2013 Sonata hybrids acceleration and fuel-economy improvements are quantifiable and worth mentioning, but the cars better-integrated drivability makes a significant difference.
We already liked the smooth electric drive-off feel and the fact that the Sonata hybrid forgoes the usual wheezy CVT for a more-pleasing six-speed step-gear automatic, but Hyundai really hit the books to work out the kinks and smooth transitions between electric and gas-engine hybrid modes.
The clutch that takes the place of the torque converter engages more quickly; its interval, according to Hyundai powertrain director John Juriga, decreased from 1.0 to 0.7 second. The goal was for good response with no untoward delays or bumpy transitions.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
But it's not just the Sonata hybrid where the math doesn't work out for me... over 9 years ago I nearly bought a then-all-new Prius hatchback, but it took too long to deliver so I started looking at alternatives and found a car about the same size (Elantra GT hatchback) with more features (moonroof, leather, 8-way drivers seat etc.) for $9k less. We still own it, put about 7-8k miles per year on it (my son does anyway). That $1000 a year more than paid for the entire gas bill for the Elantra over its lifetime. Plus I really enjoyed the moonroof and adjustable driver's seat when I was driving the car.
Like I have said before, I still get stopped at the grocery store/Walmart by folks who love the way it looks, and after I tinted the windows and added mud-guards, a factory spoiler, and gloss black b-pillar trim, it really looks like a car costing thousands more.
The Sonata just didn't have the features that I love in cars, like the fog lights and dual exhaust for the same money.
If anyone has any doubt of the cars beauty, here is my car so you can see for yourself. http://imgur.com/a/gadqq#OoEzbW7
As to the mpg exaggeration, Hyundai Corp voluntarily - I’ll repeat that for emphasis - VOLUNTARILY sent 2011 and 2012 owners Visa cash cards based on their cars’ mileage. MPG estimates for the vastly improved 2013 also appear to be underrated and these cars do not qualify for rebates. More on that below.
I do not recall Ford MC doing this when they also got caught over estimating MPG on certain models (CR found that the Lincoln MKZ hybrid mpg was off its EPA rating by a whopping 11 mpg).
I got just shy of $200 from them before trading in my 2011 which we consistently got 37 - 39 mpg year round. All us owners had to do was get the mileage verified @ a dealership. They came promptly - my second Visa card came in slightly less than two weeks after verification at an oil change.
Also note that is good for the life of the car for the original owner.
Following info on Hyundai MPG Estimates comes verbatim from a 2013 Hyundai Sonata Hybrid Overview on HybridCars.com:
Hyundai downgraded the 2012 Sonata Hybrids by 1 mpg on their EPA estimates.
In question now is whether, having been chastened by its lessons, and sending the Sonata Hybrid back to the drawing board, the 2013s may possibly under promise but over deliver.
The MPG advertising number game is a big part of the marketing for these cars, and Ford was similarly caught short with its “47 mpg” Fusion Hybrid.
We pressed Hyundai for details as to whether these specs add up to more than the conservative upticks in EPA estimates suggest. The last time Hyundai was accused of overpromising, it fully admitted its overstepping the bounds, and immediately got busy updating the cars to make good in full.
We asked whether instead of overstating mileage its self-certification for EPA numbers might be holding back a little in a more conservative stance?
Hyundai would not directly answer this pointed question, but Senior Manager, Midwest Product Public Relations Miles Johnson merely said, “All I can say is I can’t wait for you to drive it.”
Ford has never been caught with incorrect EPA ratings on the 2013 Fusion or CMAX hybrid. The EPA ratings on the Fusion hybrid are correct and has already been scrutinized by the EPA. The CMAX used a loophole in the EPA rules that allowed them to use the same test results for both the Fusion and CMAX hybrid instead of using CMAX test ratings that were lower. This was perfectly legal but not the right thing to do so Ford also compensated owners.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
However I did purchase the first Sonata Hybrid sold in Virginia from Fairfax Hyundai and consequently experienced all of the early adopter issues from a persistent CEL light to a check charging event that really startled me.
As I detailed my experiences with Hyundai Corp via email and with over the phone with Fairfax Hyundai's Operations Director I admit I did experience some frustration due to the newness of the platform and the delays in solving the problems.
I was also one of a handful of HSH owners that Hyundai chose to replace the Hybrid Power Control Unit ($4,000) until they discovered the real fix. The company and their dealers have treated me very fairly so far, that's why I traded for another HSH.
Much more detailed information on HyundaiForums.com about the early adopter issues and fixes for any serious poster.
So how about you resume discussing mid sized cars instead of making nutty accusations?
There has been talk about the Sonata Hybrid being "reliable" etc. from Consumer Reports. Reliable and pleasurable to drive are two very different concepts.
My Fusion is going in on Wednesday to have the 'fuel delivery module' replaced.
Also, it reads empty, but only takes about 12 gallons of fuel, although the tank is 16.5. There is a TSB for that.
It's not a big deal, as I get 360 to 375 miles per tank now.
If I could use all of it, I figure I could make it from central CT to Cleveland, OH (one of my kids lives there) on a single tank.
For some reason, I really want to try it.
My Venza is much more roomy and comfortable than the Camry LE was but the Sonata beats them both on long trips.
I routinely make 175 mile one-way day trips so I have plenty of seat-time to base my opinion on.
As far as links you appear to have missed the info posted sourced from Consumer Reports, Hybridcars.com and Car & Driver or can't find that info w/o help.
From US News:
The 2013 Hyundai Sonata Hybrid ranks 3 out of 20 Affordable Midsize Cars.
This ranking is based on our analysis of 19 published reviews and test drives of the Hyundai Sonata Hybrid, and our analysis of reliability and safety data.
The automotive press agrees that the 2013 Sonata Hybrid has an upscale, spacious interior that is built well.
They like that it comes with so many standard features, which some think makes it a good value among hybrids.
Standard features include Bluetooth, satellite radio, dual-zone automatic climate control, push-button start and auxiliary and USB jacks.
"Family sedan shoppers looking for a roomy, well-equipped hybrid with some distinctive styling should put the Sonata Hybrid on their short list." -- Edmunds (2011)
http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/Hyundai_Sonata-Hybrid/
explorex4, would like to hear more about the issue with the quantity of fuel u can pump into your Fusion.
Wayne Gerdes has reputedly gotten almost 21 gallons into the Sonata's stated 17.5 capacity fuel tank.
I have pumped over 18 into my HSh tank.
We routinely get 600 miles per tank and over 700 miles several times.
The powerful 3.7 V6 already fits in the Fusion bay, as it is an option on the MK-Z in which it shares it's platform, so it is totally doable. I am sure it will happen, but right now it would steal sales from Lincoln, which has been struggling ever since the MK badge system appeared.
Is there anything that bothers you on the car? Everyone here has something that they don't like about their car...like my poor visibility when backing in.
Lastly, you mentioned your engine had to be replaced, but you then bought another one. Most would have walked away, no matter how nice corporate was.
As for the gas tank, either the tank doesn't fill all the way or the level gauge is incorrect and/or the calibration is off for the level. There is also a slight chance of a leaky tank which is the reason for the recall. The solution is to recalibrate the gauge cluster and in some cases replace the tank and/or the leaky sender. Once done it won't reoccur and it's no longer happening on the new ones. I have to get mine in soon. The only downside is you only use about 12 gallons instead of 15 each fillup.
Please tell me more about it!
It would give the ST model more power over the Fusion Titanium. I would expect it to also become the base engine for the MKZ for more differentiation there too.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
When the all-new 2011 Sonata debuted in January 2010, it was a strong entry in the mid-sized class, competing against the likes of the prior-generation Accord, Fusion, Malibu, Camry, Mazda6, Altima, Passat, and Optima. It got very positive reviews and rightly so, for its combination of style, power, fuel economy, value, interior room, and improved handling (compared to its predecessor). Now all of those cars have been redesigned, leaving the Sonata as the oldest of the bunch (except for the woeful 200/Avenger).
When the current Elantra design was introduced in 2010, it was a very strong entry in the compact class. Certainly was a better car than the Corolla, Civic, Forte, and Focus available then. Three years later, it's still a good car but has been eclipsed by the new Focus, Forte, and Mazda3 and maybe the new Corolla, and the Civic has improved a lot for 2013 (pushed by the acceptance of the Elantra in part).
Hyundai doesn't sell as many cars as it does because HMA's president took his son to a baseball game.
I don't understand your ranting about Hyundai, like they are a terrorist group out for blood. They made some mistakes, but building the Sonata wasn't one of them. They upped the ante' for the whole mid-size field, which just means better cars for the consumer.
I have run the car past zero DTE, but I'd rather get that corrected, too.
Some say a software update will fix it and others get a new fuel tank.
Overfilling the tank can cause issues with the evaporative fuel recovery system, so I'm avoiding that.
The most fuel I put in the car at one time is 13.5 gallons, most are between 12 and 12.5. Since I'm getting close to 30 mpg, I don't feel range deprived.
“You mentioned your engine had to be replaced, but you then bought another one. Most would have walked away, no matter how nice corporate was.”
Quote from my earlier post:
“I was also one of a handful of HSH owners that Hyundai chose to replace the Hybrid Power Control Unit ($4,000) until they discovered the real fix.”
So the HPCU (more info on that below) was replaced, not the internal combustion engine.
Hyundai only did a few of these as they learned that beefing up select connectors between electrical components and new software flashes saved doing this expensive replacement. I saw the invoice for the HPCU, $4,000 and change and 7 hours to swap out.
Dealership also provided a car to me, gratis.
I did not have any more check charging events; 45,000 trouble free miles and
that’s one of the reasons I traded up for a 2013.
From another of my earlier posts:
“We routinely get 600 miles per tank and over 700 miles several times.”
From ATZW:
Hybrid Power Control Unit
For the Sonata Hybrid two inverters (for the main electric motor and the Hybrid Starter Generator), a DC/DC converter, and a hybrid system control unit (HCU) is integrated into one unit, which is called hybrid power control unit (HPCU). The inverter has a control board, power semiconductors, DC-link capacitor, bus bar, current sensors, and heat sink. The control board controls inverters for the two motors with one 32-bit processor.
In conventional vehicles, an alternator is fitted to the engine to supply the energy necessary to support the electric load of the vehicle. In hybrid electric vehicles, generally, a DC/DC converter replaces the conventional alternator to enhance the fuel economy. The output voltage varies from 12 to 14 V dependent on vehicle conditions such as acceleration, regenerative braking, engine operation status, electric load etc.
The HCU is a supervisory controller. Using information from vehicle, driver, engine, power electronic components and battery, it determines the operations of engine, transmission, motor and sends out control signals as a command or request to the controllers. The cooperative control among transmission, motor and engine clutch can determine the shift quality. The HCU supervises such cooperative controls for enhancement of dynamic performance, drivability and fuel economy in Sonata Hybrid.
Kinda' techy but the its simplest explanation available.