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Comments
It took me about 18 mo. of off and on shopping and research to buy my last car. So if I were to trade every 2-3 years, I'd probably be perpetually working on buying/selling cars.
I have never been able to bring myself to buy used, unless it was a cheap car. Most I ever paid for a used car was $3800 in Dec. 2000.
Buying a 1-3 year old car and supposedly saving a lot on depreciation sounds good on paper, but I have never gotten the impression that it would work that well in reality...at least for me. Saving in the neighborhood of $4000 to get a car with maybe 20,000-30,000 miles on it, is not enough compensation for going with a used car for me. The idea of buying a higher priced used car from a private seller makes me nervous.
L
The old Accord (1993/145k)seems to be about 2k on craigslist around here. We will see how that goes.
Last 2 vehicles - a 2000 Camry and a 2002 Accord. Bought 'em for a great price, no money down, 5 year financing, traded 'em in and got the payoff as trade-in value - no upsidedownness carried to the next vehicle.
My current ride is a TL. Bought it for less than what Edmunds suggested, no money down, 5 year financing (787 FICO score).
And I'm not buying the same model car each time. I like to try 'em all. Waiting to see the HunDye Genesis. Hopefully that car won't upset my pattern.
It's an unwritten rebate issued as knowing and having peace of mind that your car will never break down or require tow truck services for over 200,000 to 300,000 miles with proper maintenance. The finanicial incentive is that you won't have to spend money on mechanics and replacement parts (I must have spent thousands on MOPAR replacement parts alone).
So in order to have your viewpoint and outlook, you have to ignore decades of reliability data. :surprise:
Blame those "rookies" in Ohio........ They will never be as good or as talented as the Honda workers in Japan, but in time (maybe another 5 years) they will get really good. A lot of the workers in Japan have been assembling Honda's for decades, or even their whole career and most of their lives; hard to compete with that.
I'd love to take you on a tour of garages sometime. Might take the blinders off your eyes
I hate to be the one to break it to you, but yes, Honda cars do in fact break down from time to time.
Well, not a lot but a at least a little. Whatever the insurance would pay should be enough to buy a car of similar age an condition. But, I would care a little as I might want to replace it with new, which is why I say resale is of little (as opposed to no) concern.
I would guess that this means you are paying around $300-350 per month. If so, that seems like a pretty high cost for owning a car. Also, despite being Accord and Camry, that depreciation seems pretty high at an average of about 20% per year for the few years you own them.
If someone is upside down on payments (assuming payments are up to date) GAP insurance will pay the difference between the cars value and the loan payoff amount.
In CT where I live, state law requires insurance companies to pay RETAIL value (which is better than resale value) when a car is totaled. My 28 month old '05 Sonata is worth about $3500 less than I paid for it in April, '05 according to NADA. That's not a bad depreciation hit at all.
Anyone should check with their car insurance company about GAP insurance before buying GAP through the dealer. I'm an insurance agent and have seen hundreds of dollars of saving for my clients by getting insurance company GAP vs dealer GAP.
Exactly why I usually lease. I don't keep cars long and I prefer the lower payments that can go with that. I did buy my Mustang after I "sold" my leased Mazda6 to the Ford dealer for the amount of the remaining balance on the lease. There were 7 remaining months, out of 36 total, on that Mazda lease so you're not necessarily bound to the length of a lease if you don't want to be. I could have sold it myself too and made a profit but I didn't want the hassle.
Lease companies may differ in how they handle those situations but Mazda was very clear in what I could and couldn't do and they made it very easy for the Ford dealer to buy my lease out and therefore own the car. I drove home in the Mustang the very same day I went to look at it. It was that seamless.
L
Also, using any guide like NADA and Kelly Blue Book is a slippery slope with Insurance Companies. Insurance likes to look at ACTUAL Cash value, meaning what those cars are REALLY selling for.
Take off the rose-colored glasses for a minute and notice that Hondas do break down. And they break down regardless of whether I've owned one before. So much for your idea of a "loyalty rebate." I'll take the cold cash for a loyalty rebate, thank you.
One question comes to mind wrt the 2008 Accord: Honda has had more problems than normal lately with the first year or so of a new design (see: 1999 Odyssey; 2001 Civic; 2003 Accord; 2006 Civic for example). So I wonder how the new Accord will fare for reliability? Or will only 1/2 of one 2008 Accord (or about one in a million) have a significant problem?
What problem have you discovered with my 03 Accord, that I have obviously failed to notice?
That $28 option includes lease GAP, up to $3,000 rental car, OEM replacement parts until car is 5 model years old, replacement of accidental air bag deployment, $100 lock & key service, plus a couple other things.
Would a high interest yielding account pay for any GAP if I front ended the first year's $28 payment if I were upside down on the loan? How much more car would $28 per year for 5 years buy? And, my '05 Sonata GLS SV is no where's near falling apart. It hasn't had to have anything fixed or adjusted. I'd guess that a typical new Honda has decreased in value by at least $3500 in the same 28 month period.
You seem to be totally ignorant regarding GAP insurance. GAP insurance does not apply to a car's reliability, it only applies to physical damage claims that "total" a car.
Actual Cash Value means "replacement cost less depreciation." In CT, as I posted earlier, the law defines "replacement cost" as "retail value" and further specifies that "NADA" and one other recognized source's value will be averaged to determine the retail value. These other sources can include KBB retail value or newspaper ads from dealerships for used cars of the same make, year and model of car.
"I'd love to take you on a tour of garages sometime. Might take the blinders off your eyes."
"I hate to be the one to break it to you, but yes, Honda cars do in fact break down from time to time."
I agree, the last two vehicles I have observed either being towed or dead on the side of the road were Accords - just today. Brand loyalty is one thing, but "blind" loyalty is something I simply don't understand. Any mass produced product made by a human being will break down, including a Honda.
Yes, of course I have heard of the recall. The recall was done on my car, and unlike many other companies recall fixes, it worked like a charm. No one has opened my hood but myself since then. I sure haven't been hearing of many 03 Accord transmission failures since then. On the other hand, if I brought my Chevy truck in for every recall listed for it, it would be at the dealership more than at my house. Recalls aren't a problem, when the fix works.
Just because your car was fixed before it left you stranded on the road (or worse), doesn't mean it didn't happen to many other Accord owners. Too bad they didn't qualify for that Honda "loyalty rebate." :sick:
Honda is a large company, just like any other in this forum.
Honda makes good cars that please lots of customers, just like any other in this forum.
Honda makes its share of mistakes and has its share of issues to work through, just (say it with me) like any other in this forum.
Hondas are cars made by imperfect beings, people. Are they typically ahead of the curve on reliability? Many reports say yes. It doesn't make them perfect though; far from it. Let's quit pretending like Honda wears a halo and has only a "1 in a million" shot of being a shop. They don't.
I have a 1996 Accord that has 175k miles, and has cost relatively little to keep running. I also have a 2006 Accord with 24,100 miles, and it had more problems (2) than my 1996 had in an entire year last year. The problems were minor (a loose interior rear-view mirror and a gas flap that needed some little rubber piece plopped back into place). Still, not perfect, and not any more or less than I'd expect from any one of its competitors.
There are a couple posters here who still insist than anything other than Accord or Camry are junk. As a proud/pleased Accord owner, you recognize that all car are not for everybody and that there are many good choices available.
Our '07 Sonata (company car) which my brother drives has been great for 8K miles, whatever he has driven it. In fact, at least once a week, he tells me how great a car it is after having it for a little over six months.
My '05 Sonata is still great and a pleasure to drive (requiring no fixes) since new 28 months ago.
I see in Consumer Reports of several years for transmission problems. Seems it was for the V6 models. Things happen, and this time it was happening to Honda. Oh well, it is not like one doesn't spot a whole lot of black dots on the pages on Consumer Reports for GM, Ford, Mercedes, Saab, and well most of the rest. I do note more solid red dots come to view when looking at the pages of Honda cars. Funny how that happens.
L
Of course, the class-leading resale and reputation for reliability is a plus, but the reliability thing means above average, not perfect.
I think it is pretty reasonable too, but then again, I've never argued with myself!
The original owners put 100,000 miles on the car in 9 years before deciding to upgrade. They listed the car for sale privately in 1999, when I purchased it to commute to college in.
During my ownership over the next 2.5 years and 40,000 miles, the car did have quite a few moderate problems. Right off the top of my head:
-on the drive home, noticed a strange high-pitched scraping noise, turned out to be the distributer
-intake manifold became clogged, resulting in increased intake noise and reduced performance; shop had to drill holes
-starter solenoid failed; car would not start when interior was hot, had to open doors/hood for it to cool before it would crank
-igniter failed; while driving, all power accesories including gauges went dead, car kept running until shut off then wouldn't start again
-power door lock module failed
I sold this car privately in 2001. Last year, I emailed the third owner and asked her what became of the car. She stated that she drove the car with no major problems until "well over 200 thousand miles" but that everything was starting to go at that point, including the transmission. She traded it in to a dealer in 2004, and who knows what happened to it then.
So all in all, that car was pretty reliable throughout it's life. Evidently I just had the bad spot, but hey nothing major failed. No engine/tranny rebuilds, etc.
Now I bought a brand new Accord. I'll be happy if it is as reliable throughout it's life as the 1990 was.
Let's quit pretending like Honda wears a halo and has only a "1 in a million" shot of being a shop. They don't.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
If you have the VIN number from an insurance policy (your agent probably has records), a service writeup, an old registration, I'd check a carfax or other tracking record for it just to see what happened. Ohio has a state website where VINs can be checked for cursory records on cars in their system, e.g., free.
I've often wondered how long my 89 Century and 93 leSabre went after my wife made me trade them.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Now lets not forget about how Honda also called all owners with affected copies into the shop so they could get their welds fixed for free too. While it was in there I'm sure they hooked everyone up with a new tranny, timing belt, brake pads, muffler, etc. too. You know, standard Honda service stuff. :P
AND they didn't let the owner know all the other parts had been replaced to correct "errors" and the owners think their cars never needed any service for problems like all those "other" cars do when problems pop up.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
What's the point of egging each other on?
There are loyalists -- and detractors -- on both sides of the aisle. It's safe to say, I believe, that Honda and Toyota have built some fine automobiles over the last two decades. I believe it is equally true that the competition has gotten a lot keener in the last five years.
In its heyday, the Ford Taurus absolutely dominated the mid-size sedan segment but Ford failed to keep pace with the market and let the Taurus die on the vine.
The Fusion is the new Taurus, although the new Taurus is an old Five Hundred and now a full-size sedan. Except for horrific 14.8 mpg in-city gas mileage, our 2007 SEL AWD V6 Fusion has been perfect for nine months and 4,321 miles. Knock on wood.
Only time will tell if the Fusion proves to be as reliable as an Accord or Camry. So far, so good. Nary a recall. Not a single rattle, squeak or other malady. I believe Ford has produced a genuine winner in the Fusion, definitely equal to the Accord and Camry but with better styling and handling at a better price.
Just my 2 cents worth.
So now the pendulum swings the other way. Sigh. People get mad at the Honda fans for being so blindly loyal that it sounds a bit ridiculous. Then thegrad speaks with reason and the pendulum swings back so that the Honda bashers are sounding ridiculous.
I dunno, but I'm kind of afraid to talk now!
Ummm, those "rookies" have been building the Accord for 25+ years :confuse:
That's not exactly the way I think. I'm not interested in purchasing/leasing any other car in this segment for one reason or another, other than an Accord.
That's different than saying they are all junk.
Not too sure about that... My buddy's 02 Accord EX-V6(Please die already) Died while driving - bad tranny. Rebuilt it (at his expense). Died again. New tranny (again, his expense) and it's slipping already. 68k miles. Please die already. And the sad thing is that he wants the 08 Accord.
I looked at Fusions when I was buying last year and only barely chose an Accord. I think the Fusions are good looking cars with good content.
I am blown away by the mileage you report though.
You are getting similar mileage to a full-size SUV out of a mid-size sedan. I would not be happy with that by any means.
Do you expect it to improve? If not why stay in a sedan at all when you can get twice the space with the same mileage in something bigger?
What if you have zero down on a 72 month loan on a new BMW 335i? I'm fully aware GAP has nothing to do with reliability, but covers the amount you owe vs. what your car is worth. GAP ceases to be useful if you stick to cars that have great resale and don't buy with no money down. Cars that have great resale TEND to be, and USUALLY are very reliable, so they are inherently indirectly related.
It may not be the way you think but it's certainly the way you type.
Jeez - I hope so. 4321 miles in 9 months? I do that in 2 months easy.
The 2 Fusions I test drove just seemed adequate whereas Accords and the new Sonata were at a different level altogether.
And what's with the funky turn signal stalk at 10:00 on the Fusion? Weird.