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Agree that one's own testing, and on multitude of road types, is obviously required. Do this a couple, few times. Would not trust a "single" write-up of a road test on a car from a magazine to help pick a possible new car. But, do feel confident about considering a new car to look at and test drive when there is a consensus good opinion about the attributes of a car from multiple sources - magazines, tv, newspapers, online. An example would be the consensus good reviews on 3-series. However, would not consider even looking at a car to go see/test drive if consensus is mediocre or negative.
This is no different than trusting movie reviews or restaurant reviews or other reviews. If 3 movie reviewers (small number compared to possible sources of review of a car) give a movie one-half, one and one star, and then reading write-up gives reasons, there is no way I will waste time/money to go to that movie. Same with restaurant reviews.
-mike
-Rocky
But put a set of Azenis Sports or Toyo RA1s on these cars and then put em out on the skid pad
-mike
-Rocky
Azenis run $115-120 for 17" tires, a bargain in my book.
-mike
-Rocky
If everyone says poor handling on a vehicle, and backs it up with test data, it is indeed representative of how the mfr has equipped the car. Further, if CR also says poor handling, what more opinion does one need. CR supposedly buys its cars anonymously from dealers and therefore is less likely to get fooled with a possible "setup" car that might be given to some popular car magazine testers.
Would think that experienced race car builders could take any car and do susp, brake and tire mods on it to make it perform much better in measured tests than a car right off of the showroom floor. However, the level playing field for comparing car performance ought to be using cars that are stock right off of the showroom floor or dealer's lot.
On the CR thing, their writeups are 99% directed toward safety, reliability and rarely if ever speak to the fun, handling or other factors. Not to mention I've seen them rate 2 cars that are clones very differently, which makes no sense whatsover!
-mike
Also, let me ask you this? Does your own company, Edmunds.com, consider all those factors you mentioned when doing slalom and skidpad tests on new cars and making judgments on them? My guess is that they are no different than all the other auto publications out there.
And yes, Edmunds probably tests a stock version like the others, not saying they are any better or worse, of course I'm not in the test drive department or I'd spend about $500 for new tires every time I tested a car, then sell em for like $300 afterward
-mike
Motorsports and Tuning Host
-mike
-mike
-Cj
-mike
Motorsports and Tuning Host
-Cj
Type S for people who insist it is a sports car and they need the speed - not sure where they are driving that they can use the speed. Is Bueford T Justice chasing you over broken bridges - or is that one of your fantasies that you still think could happen? Frankly I think the ferrari is a sports car, the lamborghini is a sports car, even the corvette could be considered a sports car. The TL is a stylish sedan with plenty of pep. I do believe there are enough people that really want the power that the Type S is a good thing and Acura should keep even though I don't understand it, doesn't mean it won't sell.
Standard for those who think of it as a good semi luxury sedan with zip and a bit of sportyness and a good bang for the buck.
Type H - for those who want a bit of luxury but also do care a bit about the environment (the batteries are recyclable so don't waste your breath), are concerned about any involvement in the middle east, and perhaps don't enjoy going to the gas pump as often. I don't think hybrid for more power is a good idea - that if that is the goal that should be the Type S and the Type H gets nearly the same HP as the standard but with better gas mileage. I'm not getting into the money for hybrid - frankly the reports keep changing and I don't think most people do hybrids for the money. That being said, I'm sure someone will feel compelled to post some report about hybrids either costing you more, how many miles you'd have to drive or an old report on battery life or what to do with them). I don't believe there are any existing reports on the hybrids using the newer lithium polymer batteries but I could be mistaken.
Other things I'd like - a truly cooled cup holder for soda.
BT 2.0 for the GPS and a good way to dump contacts into it from WM - not just one at a time.
Improved voice activation and recognition for all things GPS.
I know that nothing is official until it's official, but it's still fun to read new rumors!
*300+ HP across the line (to include the TSX)
*a TSX coupe
*due to the fact that acura has stretched the 3.2L V6 to the limit, a larger engine for the TL but with i-VTEC (he said that Acura will not let the fuel economy drop to the mid - low teens)
*AWD across the line. (What? no RWD) With the HP #'s they have to be able to better direct that power to the ground and be safe about it at the same time
*V8 (no larger than 4.2L) for the RL
*And most importantly...A NEW FLAGSHIP SEDAN!!! The name LEGEND, among others was being strongly considered for that new car based on the name's popularity and its recognition in the marketplace.
The legend nameplate is interesting; granted that this is what the rl is called in other markets.
Here's what I do know: ALL 09' Acura's will have SH-AWD. There will be a TSX type-S with the 2.3L Turbo from the RDX. The TL will get the current 3.5L (from the Type-S) with standard SH-AWD as I said. The new TL-S will get the 3.7L potentially with variable intake and exhaust and should push 320-330hp and limited slip.
It sounds like initially there will not be a six speed manual for this car as their current driveline is already pushed to its limit in the Type-S. The current S's 6-speed has a restrictor in the hydrolic clutch to make the clutch slip with hard shifting to protect the transmission from breaking teeth in the gears. An AWD car with even more horsepower would require an exceptionally beefy driveline for those of us who would abuse the car chasing down S6's & M3's. Very cost prohibitive. Who knows, we may be surprised.
Acura will be offering a small V-8 for both the new larger RL and the MDX.
The Rumor as to a Flagship car (Legend) over the RL is still a rumor. No confirmation has made it my way yet. The dealers are certainly pushing hard for this.
Coupes? It has actually been hinted that there may be a TL (off the new Accord Coupe) and possible a retractable hardtop RL coupe which a prototype has been spotted in Japan with a Honda logo on it.(Type-S with V-8).
And of course the all new NSX...($125k-$130k) Ah, it is an exciting time to be selling Acura's. 2009 will be their best product line EVER! I look forward to many excited customers rushing in to see and drive these great new cars!
I guess acura is treating rwd the same way honda treats engine power from anything other than a high redline or displacement.
I just dont think its acura's job to worry about a hybrid right now, they are just coming to terms with no more fwd. (finally.)
Honda has some nice offerings that are def more upscale, but just like you expect a lot of gadgets/technology and performance at an acura's price point, the mpg saved would have to be significant as well. I would love all cars to be utlra fuel efficient, but until we decide to make going fast not our number one priority, it will never happen. plus, to go quickl in a hybrid wouldn't be cheap.
All that being said, as the owner of an '06 with Nav, is Acura working to eliminate all the rattles? I must say that even with so much going for it I will look hard at a Lexus when I trade in my car in '09. I bought a Honda Fit for my work commute and it's as solid as a rock - never a rattle. I refuse to keep going through the hassle of taking my TL back to the dealer for rattles, but they wear on my nerves. It's the small things that really make a difference - I hope Acura is taking this problem seriously because most of us experience this problem and it definitely detracts from the luxury car feel. :sick:
Ya know... I never thought about it, but you're right.
We just traded my wife's 00 Honda Accord for my G.
That car, 7 years old with over 180,000 miles, never had one rattle or strange noise.
I guess you never notice the lack of rattles.... just the ones that drive you nuts.
I want to believe that its a freshening of the current TL because honda is holding off until they finish the specs of the RWD one. That metal bar hanging out at the end on the side, all that stuff under the rear of the car... The lexus GS meets infiniti m35 like shape... IMO RWD.
Heres a link to the spy shots. Make sure you look to the right side of the page for the additional pictures.
-Cj
2) Transmission is silky smooth. Did you want to feel and count every shift?
3) One of the best styled cars on the road today. And arguably the most "complete" and attractive designs from Honda/Acura besides the early 90s Legend and the NSX (for its day).
6AT = 6 Speed auto transmission.
2) Audi, BMW, Cadillac, Lexus, Lincoln, Mercedes, and even VW all offer 6, 7, or even 8 speed automatics. My 2004 Maxima had a silky smooth 5 speed. I expect a little more in the transmission of a luxury car.
3) The design of the TL will not be complete and attractive until they clean up that rear end like they did for the RL.
Main reason? Torque steer. Drove me nuts.
Summer tires, all weather, no difference.
Every front wheel drive has torque steer. The only question is how much. With as much power as the TL has, it was too much for me.
Recently, I compared one of Acura’s 5AT, Honda’s 5AT (in the new Accord) and Lexus/Toyota front-drive 6AT, and arrived at a conclusion that the Acura 5AT would have been the best transmission choice for the new Accord, better than the 6AT in Lexus ES350. Why? Because the way ratios are set up, also considering the needs of a powerful front driver, and the need to accelerate once rolling (mild acceleration from top gear and aggressive acceleration from top gear).
As for torque steer, there is virtually none in my 2006. It is an easy car to accelerate while cornering. Even TL-S 6MT is said to not exhibit torque steer (it has an engine/transmission combination that delivers a lot of thrust and 90% of it at just 2000 rpm).
I do expect next TL to have 6AT however. But I think TSX would benefit more from it than TL would unless SH-AWD were a part of the picture, in which case the low gears will have to be geared shorter (a weakness in RL) and have room for a tall top gear.
I wonder why Infiniti has stuck with 5AT (and Lexus on its RX350).
(I used to own a 2004 Maxima)
How would you compare the torque steer in the 04 Max with that in the TL? What year TL (manual or auto) did you test drive? What car do you own now, if any?
I tested the 06 Acura. I put a down payment on an MB C350, but when they failed to deliver, I went out and bought an 06 Passat 3.6L. It had the least torque steer of any FWD with 250 or more HP.
As for torque steer... I drive an '03 CL-S 6-speed, and given a smooth stretch of pavement, I have never noticed or felt any hint of torque steer.
Good observations robertsmx
No sense engaging in further discussion with folks who don't have a clue.
You're right... when googling ends up being a way to dig up a torque steer issue.