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Rondo vs Outlander/Rav4/Santa Fe/Mazda5
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Comments
rideyourbike, "Mazda5 Owners: Problems & Solutions" #551, 21 Oct 2005 8:39 pm
I agree, I did not buy my Mazda5 to receive compliments (my wife drives it most of the time anyway) but I haven't had that type of "informal" feedback for any other brand new car I have bought before , so this is always welcome. At the end, to me, if you are keeping the car for several years, it is satisfying to drive a car that is functional and looks great, not just one or the other.
Medicineman, give yourself some credit , just the fact that you are spending time in this forum replying often and have a lot of information about your ride, IMO that makes you part of the car enthusiast category (or at least the Rondo one)
Yeah, you don't necessarily have to choose between function and looks, but one is more important than the other. Function comes first--if it looks good, too, then that's a bonus.
I think I admitted already that IMHO the Mazda5 is cooler looking than the Rondo--for a people hauler. At the end of the day, it still looks like a minivan to me.
To tell you the honest truth, I wish the Mazda5 could hold up to seven (I think it does in the version outside of North America, but I could be wrong about that). If it had that capacity, I would have most likely chosen it over the Rondo. But as it is, if I had purchased the Mazda5 and given up on the 7-seater Rondo, I would be kicking myself right now. I definitely have needed all seven seats in the past week or so, with all of my visiting relatives in town.
(In fact, my nephew just ran into the room as I typed this. I should be spending quality time with them right now, but chose to waste time by replying in this thread for my last few posts. Shows you where my priorities are, eh?)
Flattered
I think I admitted already that IMHO the Mazda5 is cooler looking than the Rondo--for a people hauler. At the end of the day, it still looks like a minivan to me.
That sliding door doesn't help the case of not making it look like a minivan I guess
if I had purchased the Mazda5 and given up on the 7-seater Rondo, I would be kicking myself right now. I definitely have needed all seven seats in the past week or so, with all of my visiting relatives in town.
Yes, Europe and Asia have the 7th seat (Karakuri) and even the cool table/tray in the back of the front seats (i hope that sounded right) but I read somewhere that the seat did not make it in NA (US or Canada, Mexico did though) due to safety reasons as the seat is not really attached to the floor. I tried the 7th seat once,and yes, it is for kids only...
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My cousin and her husband dropped by for a visit last evening and they've owned a Mazda5 since Jan. 2006. I asked what they thought of it so far--my cousin replied that she loves it and her husband said that it has ample power on the highway. I added that I heard that it has good handling.
When the hubby asked if I were thinking of buying a Mazda5, I said that I purchased a Kia Rondo a few months ago and I would have purchased the Mazda5 if it had seating for seven.
My cousin said, "Oh, Kia." Her hubby said, "Oh." And that was it.
Their silence spoke volumes, but maybe I'm reading too much into it.
Also yesterday, I was enjoying some overpriced java at a Starbucks with my sister while four of my nieces played a board game (who knew Starbucks had games?). I noticed that my sister was gazing through the window and was focusing on my Rondo in the parking lot. She said, "It's kind of nice looking, eh?" (BTW, we're Canadian, eh?)
Coming unsolicited from a fashionista like my sister, that's truly some high praise. FYI, she drives a Honda Pilot. I have no idea what that says about her fashion sense when it comes to vehicles.
After she made her comment, I said, "It's pretty nondescript actually, but it does have a nice colour." (Can't take a compliment, can I?) She agreed that the colour was nice, which is "urban grey." I read a review that said that this colour made the Rondo look like a delivery vehicle, so what do we know? Just goes to prove the old adage about beauty being in the eye of the beholder.
Of course, it turns out that these are conflicting goals: the third-row seat is generally accommodated in part by reducing the space available in the second row.
Within the price range, the Rondo was absolutely the winner. When we checked out the Mazda, I had to perform some very complex contortions just to get into the third-row seat, and at 5'7" it was definitely not a tolerable fit. I found the Rondo's third row the easiest to get into and out of, and the fit is "adequate" so that I'd be willing to sit there (which may be necessary to keep peace if we haul 4 or 5 of our child's friends).
We bought a Kia Rondo yesterday (with nearly every available option), and of course we're quite happy after the first 40 miles, but naturally there's a lot for us to learn and experience before I can offer a real review.
As I noted in the 'accessories' thread, I do wish I could find a suitable cargo-area cover.
We did NOT consider the Outlander; we did not know it existed; we did not even know (until I just searched) that there is a Mitsubishi dealership 3.3 miles from our home (I assume that it's hidden inside one of the other dealerships).
If we had known that the Outlander existed, we probably wouldn't have checked it out because in the past when I've researched cars, the Mitsubishi models were MUCH more expensive than most comparable vehicles. That doesn't seem to be true, if the pricing on Edmunds is correct. From a quick look on Edmunds, it appears that the Outlander has comparable MPG and a list price that's about $4,000 to $5,000 more than a comparable Rondo (I also assume that Mitsubishis aren't discounted as much as Kias).
In a quick search now, I can't figure out what features might be included in which versions of the Outlander. From the context here, I assume that it has a third-row seat; I also see that it's marketed as an SUV, while our search was for a "station wagon."
Pricing seems to be a few thousand higher than the Rondo.
This fits into the category of "if they made it, I would buy it". We've been looking at small SUVs. We really don't need a 4WD, but there are few other cars in our country [Australia] which meet our needs: we need load space, my wife likes an elevated driving position and a feeling of security.
So we have looked at cars like the CRV and the Outlander. Kia has not yet released the Rondo [prob'y to be called the Carena here] yet, but will soon we think. However, I reckon they could really shake up the SUV 'city" car market by using the same strategy as various other companies have: Eg Renault, Fiat, Skoda, VW. That is, increase the ground clearance by about 50mm, and use lots of black plastic, then work on the suspension and handling to cope with the increased height.
Here's an indication of what you might get (I've used the lines to cover up my poor photo editing) SUV_Rondo
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3f/Audi-Allroad.jpg/800px-- - Audi-Allroad.jpg
Now, IMO, it is closer to an AWD station wagon than the SUVs or CUVs you normally see in this side of the pond.
Holden or similar too boring for you I assume? I do believe they have some AWD (all-terrain) station wagons if I'm not mistaken.
(...and yeah, I kind of like those Holden Commodores and Ford Falcons, not to buy, but they seem fun...).
Re the Audi: well spotted. I actually used the bottom 1/4 of the Audi's distant cousin Skoda Scout to attach to the Rondo's top 3/4. It's more of an SUV then than the Skoda, which is only 1533mm high. The Rondo would be about 1700mm high, more to the top of the roof bars.
As per Holden, this is what I was thinking of (looks like an all-terrain Opel Astra [Holden sibling]):
I think Chevy is bringing the Commodore sometime to NA (a 4 door Pontiac GTO type thing for us here). Big and brute horsepowered sedans are a hit over here :surprise:
Oh well, but to keep us on topic, I believe the "closest" SUVs I'm thinking of from this side of the pond are:
- Kia Sportage (2 seat rows only though)
- Hyundai Santa-Fe (3 seat rows?)
- Hyundai Veracruz (3 seat rows)
- Mazda Cx-7
- RAV4 and Outlander of course.
And yes, I hope KIA/Mazda/Hyundai/Toyota/Mitsubishi are reading these forums. Good ideas for all the different markets I believe...
2) I think
ChevyGM is bringing the Commodore sometime to NA (a 4 door PontiacGTOG8 type thing for us here) - fixed3) Hyundai Santa-Fe (3 seat rows?) yes, optional third row
4) Hyundai Veracruz is way out of league for this. This is not even close to the VC.
If you are going to list Sportage, then certainly Tuscon as well; and add CR-V to the list also
Daewoo? Don't they just manufacture appliances? Just kidding of course
2) I think Chevy GM is bringing the Commodore sometime to NA (a 4 door Pontiac GTO G8 type thing for us here) - fixed
OK, GM Family. As per the Chevy sibling, this is the one I'm referring to, the Chevy Lumina. And yes, it will be a G8 for Pontiac, but I just mentioned the defunct 2-door Pontiac GTO to give us an idea on what has been already sold here. Off-topic anyway
If you are going to list Sportage, then certainly Tuscon as well; and add CR-V to the list also
Agree... Now that I'm thinking of models, there are many more that look alike :surprise:
While driving during the weekend, I saw the new Saturn VUE (2008?) around and I just found out it is also the GM/Daewoo/Captiva type model. I think the comparison list will continue to grow to the minute... or least it gives us a better feeling on how those cars look over there
The new Saturn VUE:
The earlier posted Holden Captiva:
Aussie_9, if you are still around, the VUE length and width are similar to a Mazda5 or a Rondo plus Holden offers a 7 seater in Australia it seems (not in NA unfortunately) so check it out (if you haven't or you care, of course )
VUE, Mazda5 and Rondo dimensions (I got them somewhere on the Web, so double check), in that order:
Length (inches) 180.1 181.5 179.0
Width (inches) 72.8 69.1 71.7
Wheelbase (inches) 106.6 108.3 106.3
http://autos.nytimes.com/2007/NA/NA/263/3515/286107/researchSpecs.aspx
VUE, Mazda5, Rondo, in that order:
Curb Weight Automatic (lbs): 3825 3389 3333
The rest (note my copy-n-paste disclaimer :confuse:):
Length (inches) 180.1 181.5 179.0
Width (inches) 72.8 69.1 71.7
Wheelbase (inches) 106.6 108.3 106.3
Height (inches) 67.0 64.2 65.0
Front Head Room (inches) 40.2 38.9 41.6
Rear Head Room (inches) 39.3 39.2 40.2
Front Leg Room (inches) 40.7 40.7 41.3
Rear Leg Room (inches) 36.9 35.2 38.2
Cargo Volume (Manufacturer) -cubic feet 29.2 44.4 31.7
Hmmm, I like that last Cargo Volume number
Rondo seems to be the most space efficient, at least for passengers.
Mazda5 seems to fit the most gear.
True. My silly thought is that it also has to do with where the car is designed (i.e. Japan) even if they sell globally.
No offense to my fellow Japanese mates, but the average population height is lower over there than in many other parts of the World. My 2 Japanese designed cars have to have the driver's seat on its last position when I drive, and I'm not really that tall. I have also owned compact American designed cars, and there is plenty of legroom plus more seat positions to go back if needed (at least for the front seats)
Show me a size 10, or better yet, an NFL linebacker!
The Vue weight of 3825 is with the 4 cyl and FWD and auto
The Mazda 5 with auto is 3415 lbs. The reviews I've read so far on the Vue all state its a very heavy vehicle, so how this would effect mileage is not clear as the mfg site does yet state mileage figures.
On storage:
Behind the front seats:
Vue - 54.3 cu.ft.
Rondo - 73.4 cu.ft.
Mazda 5 - 30.3 cu.ft. (believe it or not that's what the site says (they actually say it as metric - 857 litres), not sure how they measure it, but I have actually measured the length from the back door to the front seats in the rear position and its 5" shorter than the Rondo. So in all fairness its got to be close to double what they claim. Don't all manufacturers measure the same? It seems like Mazda is not giving themselves full credit in this area. The 44.4 on the US site does not state where they are measuring it, it just says cargo volume?)
Behind the 2nd seat:
Vue - 26.5 cu.ft. (752 litres)
Rondo - 31.7 cu.ft. (898 litres)
Mazda 5 - 15.1 cu.ft (426 litres)
behind the 3rd seat in the Mazda and Rondo is almost non-existent, but I don't think the VUE has a 3rd seat.
behind the 3rd seat in the Mazda and Rondo is almost non-existent
Agree, it is tight when having a full house. There is just enough space for a stroller or so:
I don't think the VUE has a 3rd seat
Yes, no VUE 3rd seat for NA . Here is the context on why the VUE type "model" with the 3rd seat came into the topic:
coolmazda5, "Rondo vs Outlander/Rav4/Santa Fe/Mazda5" #172, 3 Sep 2007 5:21 pm
That's a big stroller. We had an Evenflo on-my-way that was sized like that. The infant carrier snapped in.
Test-fitting them in the car you're buying is important.
I remember my Forester could fit the stroller length-wise behind the 2nd row, and the RAV4 and CR-V could not. You had to put the stroller in width-wise. That meant it took up the whole cargo floor, so you'd have to stack stuff up.
I bought the Forester. :shades:
Nowadays I have a van, but we have the opposite issue - it's too BIG! You have to tie things down so they don't roll around!
Yes, a big stroller, I agree. I have done what is in the picture only 2-3 times since I bought the car 2+ yrs ago (5 adults, 1 baby on car seat) but usually the 3rd row is not used and is folded. The seat is not really pressing hard against the stroller but is soooo tight in there (and the wheels are very close to the heads of the lucky ones riding in the 3rd row :P).
When using the 2 row seat mode the stroller fits both ways, length and wide-wise (length-wise it does not leave an inch left around the liftgate ) so it has worked well for our case.
When we bought the Mazda5 my wife actually measured around, but not for baby stuff, she checked if it was IKEA box fit compliant, and it is. That was not a deal breaker of course, but the CR-V we test drove did not pass that "test"
As per the van, if we ever get "upgraded" to more than 2 kids, yes, definitely it is best. Mazda5 would be extremely tight IMO.
Good one! They should use that in the brochure!
We also have 2 kids, but add a nanny and a dog in our case.
This weekend we're taking a trip with a family of 3, all coming along in our van for the ride. The nanny isn't coming, but it will be 7 people plus luggage, and one dog!
Santa FE 6 cylinder 2.7 GLS with auto 2007:
When I went to two dealerships, noticed fit and trim problems with the Santa Fe as far as wiper blades that seem to already be rusting, deep scratches on the paint on new car, after market parts falling off. Twice on two different cars right in front of me. Really scares me that these issues are there though cosmetic they could lead me to believe there are mechanical issues that I should also be concerned with. Not sure I trust MPG that is stated on window, edmunds forum tends to agree. Two interior colors camel and light grey. Rather have darker interiors. Nice looking SUV on the outside. Large cargo and interior.
CRV: 4 cylinder 2008
Thought it was a bit smaller and noiser and slower then the other two. I seem to have issues with inline 4. Rather have the DOHC, Real time price was slightly higher then other two. Great colors for inside and out. Like it that it comes with a dark interior. But could always use more colors. MPG also goood, Honda MPG rating not as reliable as Toyotas.
RAV 4: 4 cylinder 2007
Not as noisey or slow as the CRV maybe due to DOHC. Limited interior colors but darker grey then the Santa FE. Gets pretty good MPG and I actually believe the window when it comes to that since I have had many toyotas with stated MPG being realistic. Prices tend to fluculate depending on what is available on the lot at the time.
Not sure there are any other SUV's I would be interested in. The Saturn hybrid VUE was interesting but I tend to think GM can't make decent engine/transmission/suspension/electrical. They even went as far as putting in a honda drivetrain at one point. The 2008 dont even have the plastic door panels which I think was a big mistake to get rid of.
Interior colors a big problem with me when they are too light. I want to keep these cars for many many years. If they get nasty looking it turns me off.
Try an Outlander and a Forester. Maybe a RAV4 V6 as well, given it only gets 1mpg less than the 4 banger in real-world tests.
Have you driven any of these vehicles? If not, I suggest that you do.
I also suggest that you take a close look at the Hyundai Tucson. It comes with the same 2.7 liter V6 as the Santa Fe GLS and it's a FANTASTIC little SUV, especially in Limited trim. Check it out.
They'll have to change the name as I'm sure Ford would object.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=97bFi1Z7w7E
Mercedes R350 influence? That 3rd row seat is becoming so popular all 6-7 seaters interiors start looking alike :surprise:
Some pics:
http://www.toyota.jp/markxzio/
The concept that previewed it was nice, but I think it came out looking a bit bland in the end. Toyota should take more risks.
Style it better and market it as a Scion.
Okay, creds in. No minivan, suv, crossover or wagon is going to be fun to drive if you think 2 wheeled curves are juicy. Anything in the above category is too tall, too slow in the shift (it's an automatic, man!), too soft in the struts and just not meant for clenching your jaw and praying. Tell your husband from me, you can't double clutch a minivan, but you can keep your wife and kids safe and well transported. Get your husband some sort of used fun-to-drive-something and get the Rondo for your family. You'll never get both in one package.
I searched and searched for a family hauler (7+ passengers) that was sporting and finally gave up and just got a minivan.
Even without a price limit, they just get too heavy, and still aren't sporty, no matter how much you spend.
2 things killed the deal for me: the color and no sliding doors
It is really is its own class of auto vehicle for 07..Not a SUV, Mini UTE,, not too much economy or mid sized, or really about anything else eithe TO FURTHER MAKE MY POINT...MY LAST AUTOS WERE:...04 AUDI A4... .Honda ELEMENT 05(ON A WHIM), 04 MINI COOPER S (heavily MODIFIED) AND FUN, but poor reliability!!! The SF...well as said...just different...AND SO FAR ANYWAY.
I also have not developed the need/want to make or ,add changes; My Maturity...I doubt it! :shades: I just like ,cars!!!!
Still admittedly, I kept an 81 Porsche 911 SC for 13 yrs...yes, I am single and like my toys! Never, should have sold that one!
Just returned from a short shopping trip and wondered, if I had to compare this SF to anything comparable . , what would it be? Closest I could come up with was a Outlander (and that seemed more aimed at a Lexus 350 anyway. (BUT MISSED)
HOWEVER iT SEEMS quite a bit more refined AND CONSERVATIVE" than the Outlander (imho)IS, THUS (GOODIES ASIDE)...fUNNY, THEY MISSED LOTS OF SMALL STUFF LIKE AN iPOD CONNECTOR AND OPTIONAL hid LIGHTING ETC. eVEN THE ENGINE LAYOUT IS PRETTY WELL PLACED AT THIS POINT IN ITS EVOLUTION
I JUST COULD NOT FIND A COMPARABLE ...AND I HAVE DRIVEN MOST OF THE OTHERS. Funny, was not even attracted to the 06 and prior...THE KOREANS HAVE STUDIED WHAT THE AMERICANS wanted,and in a very short time span (1 generation?)re liability AND LONGEVITY,...YET OTHER FACTOR(S)TO BE WATCHED CLOSELY.
HYUNDAI SEEMS TO HAVE ANTICIPATED MY NEEDS HERE QUITE WELL :shades:
fROM A PRICE, PERFORMANCE, VALUE, LOOKS, practical...IT REALLY HAS I get lots of "what was that thing anyway looks with it!"DONE THE OTHERS QUITE A BIT BETTER."
Auto buying is about needs and compromises...there are not many compromises to be found from my perspective. The missed just a few items that people would want (Now to get rid if the name...HYUNDAI...Sigh...I guess that will come too
But if everyone thought that, the SF would be a lot more popular than it is. 2008 should be a very interesting year for the SF. If you see a "spike" in sales, they did it properly...if not, I guessed wrong. By this time I usually begin to tire of a car...so far, not hhis one
All vehicles have their high and low points and the SF certainly has it own...Just can't come up with any major ones for now. If they are smart, they will take their learnings and continue to refine to more of a degree than even the Japanese have done!fOR $30K, I WOULD BE A BIT HARDER PRESSED TO MAKE THAT STATEMENT!!!!(MINE IS A SUB 25K se MODEL. aNOTHER THING WAS THAT I THINK i WOULD HAVE TIRED A BIT OF THEN gls MODEL BY NOW (i AM COMPULSIVE TOO)THE SE JUST SEEMS TO FILL THAT GAP BETWEEN THE LIMITED AND gls AS WELL!
I MAY EVEN KEEP THIS ONE FOR A WHILE! :shades: assuming we still have gasoline to ,run em!
Maybe that is why I was so attracted to it back in Feb when I bought one...weaknesses sure...but find a bunch like others have...not a car, van, wagon, SUV or about anything else you can come up with!
I agree with you in one thing: Koreans seem to have studied the mainstream American market well as they are selling tons of cars here.
Now, watch out, Chinese have cheap, unreliable unsafe cars now but I think they will also evolve to a NHTSA pass point, you'll see.
It will take me some time, however, to include a Korean car on my shopping list, the bad stigma of driving any of those is still too strong :sick: (plus the dilemma: yes to functionality, no to style).
As per the Mazda5 sliding doors I agree, I believe the main issue in North America is the fact that in these markets sliding doors mean vans or minivans by default. The minivan concept was invented here after all. Also, the Mazda5 came around the time of the Mazda MPV market exit, so it did not support the MAV market idea here.
Other interesting thing, possibly related to the one above, is the fact that only very few car research organizations place the Rondo and the Mazda5 in the same segment. Check in here, Where is the Rondo?:
http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/rankings/Affordable-Compact-Wag- - - - - ons/
On the other side (talking about minivans and vans):
http://www.canadiandriver.com/minivans/minivan1.htm
http://www.newcars.com/mazda/mazda5/reviews/ford-e150.html
It makes me laugh when I read that the Mazda5 is too small, of course, when compared to what? :surprise:
This one is interesting though:
http://www.prdomain.com/companies/F/FordMotor/newsreleases/200792146404.htm
"I looked at their script and envisioned a Mazda5 in every driveway," said Witter. “There isn’t a better example of an upwardly mobile starter car for families. It’s not only sporty looking it has three rows of seats which makes it great for kids."
Now, if you ask a Mazda5 owner (I agree, we are a market minority) the sliding doors top the must-have list as, in reality, it makes the car so versatile.
Well, too much blah, blah. I have enjoyed my car every mile since, it has exceeded my wife's (primary driver) and my expectations with no issues so to what segment is classified in, I'm not worried anymore .
Plus if you see, in all the disparate car comparisons is included in, still fares very well.
Its ranked #5
http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/2007-Kia-Rondo/
they screwed up on their main list as they have a tie for #4 positions and no #5. It has a rating of 7.9
For 2009, Kia should offer in the Rondo the 3.3 liter V6 which is in the Santa Fe (lol) and Sonata and also the base Azera.
Mazda should put in MAzda5 the Ford sourced 3.0 V6 which is in the Mazda6 and the Tribute or how about this, put in its big bro CX-7 Turbo 4 Cylinder in it.(MazdaSpeed5 lol)
But thats probably just wishful thinking with both Crossovers for me.
IF they do that will help them greatly because the lack of power is one of their major complaints. Thats mostly due to their almost 2 1/2 ton curb weight