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Rondo vs Outlander/Rav4/Santa Fe/Mazda5

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Comments

  • A correction to my anecdote: my brother-in-law doesn't own a car worth around 200 grand. It's a Porsche that's worth over 100 grand and he's leasing it. What a freakin' cheapskate.
  • coolmazda5coolmazda5 Posts: 525
    A Porsche story, :D Mazda5 also has one, I just recalled. Please see message 551 in here. It is very old but reminds me of the good looking car compliments:
    rideyourbike, "Mazda5 Owners: Problems & Solutions" #551, 21 Oct 2005 8:39 pm

    I agree, I did not buy my Mazda5 to receive compliments (my wife drives it most of the time anyway) but I haven't had that type of "informal" feedback for any other brand new car I have bought before :D, so this is always welcome. At the end, to me, if you are keeping the car for several years, it is satisfying to drive a car that is functional and looks great, not just one or the other.

    Medicineman, give yourself some credit ;) , just the fact that you are spending time in this forum replying often and have a lot of information about your ride, IMO that makes you part of the car enthusiast category (or at least the Rondo one) :)
  • Thanks for saying that I'm a car enthusiast, coolmazda5--I'm not sure if I'm flattered or insulted. :)

    Yeah, you don't necessarily have to choose between function and looks, but one is more important than the other. Function comes first--if it looks good, too, then that's a bonus.

    I think I admitted already that IMHO the Mazda5 is cooler looking than the Rondo--for a people hauler. At the end of the day, it still looks like a minivan to me.

    To tell you the honest truth, I wish the Mazda5 could hold up to seven (I think it does in the version outside of North America, but I could be wrong about that). If it had that capacity, I would have most likely chosen it over the Rondo. But as it is, if I had purchased the Mazda5 and given up on the 7-seater Rondo, I would be kicking myself right now. I definitely have needed all seven seats in the past week or so, with all of my visiting relatives in town.

    (In fact, my nephew just ran into the room as I typed this. I should be spending quality time with them right now, but chose to waste time by replying in this thread for my last few posts. Shows you where my priorities are, eh?)
  • coolmazda5coolmazda5 Posts: 525
    Thanks for saying that I'm a car enthusiast, coolmazda5--I'm not sure if I'm flattered or insulted.

    Flattered

    I think I admitted already that IMHO the Mazda5 is cooler looking than the Rondo--for a people hauler. At the end of the day, it still looks like a minivan to me.

    That sliding door doesn't help the case of not making it look like a minivan I guess :)

    if I had purchased the Mazda5 and given up on the 7-seater Rondo, I would be kicking myself right now. I definitely have needed all seven seats in the past week or so, with all of my visiting relatives in town.

    Yes, Europe and Asia have the 7th seat (Karakuri) and even the cool table/tray in the back of the front seats (i hope that sounded right) but I read somewhere that the seat did not make it in NA (US or Canada, Mexico did though) due to safety reasons as the seat is not really attached to the floor. I tried the 7th seat once,and yes, it is for kids only...

    image">
  • Here are a couple of anecdotes that don't really add anything meaningful to the discussion--but what else would you guys expect from me? ;)

    My cousin and her husband dropped by for a visit last evening and they've owned a Mazda5 since Jan. 2006. I asked what they thought of it so far--my cousin replied that she loves it and her husband said that it has ample power on the highway. I added that I heard that it has good handling.

    When the hubby asked if I were thinking of buying a Mazda5, I said that I purchased a Kia Rondo a few months ago and I would have purchased the Mazda5 if it had seating for seven.

    My cousin said, "Oh, Kia." Her hubby said, "Oh." And that was it.

    Their silence spoke volumes, but maybe I'm reading too much into it.

    Also yesterday, I was enjoying some overpriced java at a Starbucks with my sister while four of my nieces played a board game (who knew Starbucks had games?). I noticed that my sister was gazing through the window and was focusing on my Rondo in the parking lot. She said, "It's kind of nice looking, eh?" (BTW, we're Canadian, eh?)

    Coming unsolicited from a fashionista like my sister, that's truly some high praise. FYI, she drives a Honda Pilot. I have no idea what that says about her fashion sense when it comes to vehicles.

    After she made her comment, I said, "It's pretty nondescript actually, but it does have a nice colour." (Can't take a compliment, can I?) She agreed that the colour was nice, which is "urban grey." I read a review that said that this colour made the Rondo look like a delivery vehicle, so what do we know? Just goes to prove the old adage about beauty being in the eye of the beholder.
  • Two of our primary criteria when buying our "wagon" was the need for a third-row seat AND the need for ample leg room in the second-row seats for our growing 12-year-old, who has long outgrown the back seat of our Kia Rio.

    Of course, it turns out that these are conflicting goals: the third-row seat is generally accommodated in part by reducing the space available in the second row.

    Within the price range, the Rondo was absolutely the winner. When we checked out the Mazda, I had to perform some very complex contortions just to get into the third-row seat, and at 5'7" it was definitely not a tolerable fit. I found the Rondo's third row the easiest to get into and out of, and the fit is "adequate" so that I'd be willing to sit there (which may be necessary to keep peace if we haul 4 or 5 of our child's friends).

    We bought a Kia Rondo yesterday (with nearly every available option), and of course we're quite happy after the first 40 miles, but naturally there's a lot for us to learn and experience before I can offer a real review.

    As I noted in the 'accessories' thread, I do wish I could find a suitable cargo-area cover.
  • rcpaxrcpax Posts: 580
    I know this is water under the bridge, but in retrospect, did you consider the 07 Mitsubishi Outlander?
  • I just submitted a long reply, but then got an error message.

    We did NOT consider the Outlander; we did not know it existed; we did not even know (until I just searched) that there is a Mitsubishi dealership 3.3 miles from our home (I assume that it's hidden inside one of the other dealerships).

    If we had known that the Outlander existed, we probably wouldn't have checked it out because in the past when I've researched cars, the Mitsubishi models were MUCH more expensive than most comparable vehicles. That doesn't seem to be true, if the pricing on Edmunds is correct. From a quick look on Edmunds, it appears that the Outlander has comparable MPG and a list price that's about $4,000 to $5,000 more than a comparable Rondo (I also assume that Mitsubishis aren't discounted as much as Kias).

    In a quick search now, I can't figure out what features might be included in which versions of the Outlander. From the context here, I assume that it has a third-row seat; I also see that it's marketed as an SUV, while our search was for a "station wagon."

    Pricing seems to be a few thousand higher than the Rondo.
  • rcpaxrcpax Posts: 580
    But looking at the features you get, that might actually justify the difference in the pricing. Plus pricing is pretty much dependent on what features you like added, the lowest base at around 20+K. With good financing at this time of the year too. I don't want to sound bias but handling is second to nothing in it's class. The point of my question earlier was just to figure how well the Outlander was advertised, and from it seems, not that much as compared to a CR-V or a RAV-4, or even Hyundai or Kia.
  • Hi new here

    This fits into the category of "if they made it, I would buy it". We've been looking at small SUVs. We really don't need a 4WD, but there are few other cars in our country [Australia] which meet our needs: we need load space, my wife likes an elevated driving position and a feeling of security.

    So we have looked at cars like the CRV and the Outlander. Kia has not yet released the Rondo [prob'y to be called the Carena here] yet, but will soon we think. However, I reckon they could really shake up the SUV 'city" car market by using the same strategy as various other companies have: Eg Renault, Fiat, Skoda, VW. That is, increase the ground clearance by about 50mm, and use lots of black plastic, then work on the suspension and handling to cope with the increased height.

    Here's an indication of what you might get (I've used the lines to cover up my poor photo editing) SUV_Rondo
  • coolmazda5coolmazda5 Posts: 525
    I don't like the Rondo model but the one you have edited in your photo makes it look interesting. It looks (somehow) like the Audi All-Road once sold here (see link). I also like the wheels (design and size).

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3f/Audi-Allroad.jpg/800px-- - Audi-Allroad.jpg

    Now, IMO, it is closer to an AWD station wagon than the SUVs or CUVs you normally see in this side of the pond.

    Holden or similar too boring for you I assume? I do believe they have some AWD (all-terrain) station wagons if I'm not mistaken.

    (...and yeah, I kind of like those Holden Commodores and Ford Falcons, not to buy, but they seem fun...).
  • Hi coolmazda I'm not into brute horsepower, which is what Holdens and Fords are about. No-one bought the Holden but the Ford [Territory] is popular.

    Re the Audi: well spotted. I actually used the bottom 1/4 of the Audi's distant cousin Skoda Scout to attach to the Rondo's top 3/4. It's more of an SUV then than the Skoda, which is only 1533mm high. The Rondo would be about 1700mm high, more to the top of the roof bars.
  • coolmazda5coolmazda5 Posts: 525
    Skoda Scout, so those Czech VW siblings are Down-Under as well, huh? :)

    As per Holden, this is what I was thinking of (looks like an all-terrain Opel Astra [Holden sibling]):
    image

    I think Chevy is bringing the Commodore sometime to NA (a 4 door Pontiac GTO type thing for us here). Big and brute horsepowered sedans are a hit over here :surprise:

    Oh well, but to keep us on topic, I believe the "closest" SUVs I'm thinking of from this side of the pond are:
    - Kia Sportage (2 seat rows only though)
    - Hyundai Santa-Fe (3 seat rows?)
    - Hyundai Veracruz (3 seat rows)
    - Mazda Cx-7
    - RAV4 and Outlander of course.

    And yes, I hope KIA/Mazda/Hyundai/Toyota/Mitsubishi are reading these forums. Good ideas for all the different markets I believe...
  • joe97joe97 Posts: 2,248
    1) That Holden Captiva is a Daewoo

    2) I think Chevy GM is bringing the Commodore sometime to NA (a 4 door Pontiac GTO G8 type thing for us here) - fixed :)

    3) Hyundai Santa-Fe (3 seat rows?) yes, optional third row

    4) Hyundai Veracruz is way out of league for this. This is not even close to the VC.

    If you are going to list Sportage, then certainly Tuscon as well; and add CR-V to the list also
  • coolmazda5coolmazda5 Posts: 525
    1) That Holden Captiva is a Daewoo
    Daewoo? Don't they just manufacture appliances? Just kidding of course :D

    2) I think Chevy GM is bringing the Commodore sometime to NA (a 4 door Pontiac GTO G8 type thing for us here) - fixed
    OK, GM Family. As per the Chevy sibling, this is the one I'm referring to, the Chevy Lumina. And yes, it will be a G8 for Pontiac, but I just mentioned the defunct 2-door Pontiac GTO to give us an idea on what has been already sold here. Off-topic anyway :blush:
    image

    If you are going to list Sportage, then certainly Tuscon as well; and add CR-V to the list also
    Agree... Now that I'm thinking of models, there are many more that look alike :surprise:
  • If you are going to list Sportage, then certainly Tuscon as well; and add CR-V to the list also

    While driving during the weekend, I saw the new Saturn VUE (2008?) around and I just found out it is also the GM/Daewoo/Captiva type model. I think the comparison list will continue to grow to the minute... or least it gives us a better feeling on how those cars look over there :)

    The new Saturn VUE:
    image

    The earlier posted Holden Captiva:
    image

    Aussie_9, if you are still around, the VUE length and width are similar to a Mazda5 or a Rondo plus Holden offers a 7 seater in Australia it seems (not in NA unfortunately) so check it out (if you haven't or you care, of course :D)

    image

    VUE, Mazda5 and Rondo dimensions (I got them somewhere on the Web, so double check), in that order:

    Length (inches) 180.1 181.5 179.0
    Width (inches) 72.8 69.1 71.7
    Wheelbase (inches) 106.6 108.3 106.3
  • kivokivo Posts: 64
    Does anyone know if either the Mazda5 or the Kia Rondo have stainless steel exhaust systems? My 92 Taurus has it and after 15 years of stop and go driving, I've never replaced anything. Great system!
  • This is what I gathered for the Mazda5. Yes, it seems that the exhaust is stainless steel (I don't have the actual car manual/specs around but this link has good info).

    http://autos.nytimes.com/2007/NA/NA/263/3515/286107/researchSpecs.aspx
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Dimensions are indeed close, but I bet the curb weight of the Vue is much higher.
  • bobw3bobw3 Posts: 2,992
    Does anyone know of any sites with photos of these cars with people sitting in all of the seats. This would provide a better reference to their interior size. Or do some owners have such photos?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    The manufacturers got smart - they use very petite models to make the cars seem roomier than they are! :D
  • Yikes, yeah. www.saturn.com or any of the car web sites have this comparison tool thingie I believe...

    VUE, Mazda5, Rondo, in that order:
    Curb Weight Automatic (lbs): 3825 3389 3333

    The rest (note my copy-n-paste disclaimer :confuse:):
    Length (inches) 180.1 181.5 179.0
    Width (inches) 72.8 69.1 71.7
    Wheelbase (inches) 106.6 108.3 106.3
    Height (inches) 67.0 64.2 65.0
    Front Head Room (inches) 40.2 38.9 41.6
    Rear Head Room (inches) 39.3 39.2 40.2
    Front Leg Room (inches) 40.7 40.7 41.3
    Rear Leg Room (inches) 36.9 35.2 38.2
    Cargo Volume (Manufacturer) -cubic feet 29.2 44.4 31.7

    Hmmm, I like that last Cargo Volume number :D
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Yeah, ~500 lbs or so. Part of that may be the AWD though.

    Rondo seems to be the most space efficient, at least for passengers.

    Mazda5 seems to fit the most gear.
  • The manufacturers got smart - they use very petite models to make the cars seem roomier than they are! :D

    True. My silly thought is that it also has to do with where the car is designed (i.e. Japan) even if they sell globally.

    No offense to my fellow Japanese mates, but the average population height is lower over there than in many other parts of the World. My 2 Japanese designed cars have to have the driver's seat on its last position when I drive, and I'm not really that tall. I have also owned compact American designed cars, and there is plenty of legroom plus more seat positions to go back if needed (at least for the front seats)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Even here, most models are size 0 or 2.

    Show me a size 10, or better yet, an NFL linebacker! :D
  • conwelpicconwelpic Ontario, CanadaPosts: 600
    Based on the Canadian manufacturers site:

    The Vue weight of 3825 is with the 4 cyl and FWD and auto
    The Mazda 5 with auto is 3415 lbs. The reviews I've read so far on the Vue all state its a very heavy vehicle, so how this would effect mileage is not clear as the mfg site does yet state mileage figures.

    On storage:
    Behind the front seats:
    Vue - 54.3 cu.ft.
    Rondo - 73.4 cu.ft.
    Mazda 5 - 30.3 cu.ft. (believe it or not that's what the site says (they actually say it as metric - 857 litres), not sure how they measure it, but I have actually measured the length from the back door to the front seats in the rear position and its 5" shorter than the Rondo. So in all fairness its got to be close to double what they claim. Don't all manufacturers measure the same? It seems like Mazda is not giving themselves full credit in this area. The 44.4 on the US site does not state where they are measuring it, it just says cargo volume?)

    Behind the 2nd seat:
    Vue - 26.5 cu.ft. (752 litres)
    Rondo - 31.7 cu.ft. (898 litres)
    Mazda 5 - 15.1 cu.ft (426 litres)

    behind the 3rd seat in the Mazda and Rondo is almost non-existent, but I don't think the VUE has a 3rd seat.
  • How manufacturers measure stuff is so confusing. I usually focus in more factual down to earth measurements :D:

    image

    image

    behind the 3rd seat in the Mazda and Rondo is almost non-existent

    Agree, it is tight when having a full house. There is just enough space for a stroller or so:

    image

    image

    I don't think the VUE has a 3rd seat

    Yes, no VUE 3rd seat for NA :( . Here is the context on why the VUE type "model" with the 3rd seat came into the topic:
    coolmazda5, "Rondo vs Outlander/Rav4/Santa Fe/Mazda5" #172, 3 Sep 2007 5:21 pm
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    True, true.

    That's a big stroller. We had an Evenflo on-my-way that was sized like that. The infant carrier snapped in.

    Test-fitting them in the car you're buying is important.

    I remember my Forester could fit the stroller length-wise behind the 2nd row, and the RAV4 and CR-V could not. You had to put the stroller in width-wise. That meant it took up the whole cargo floor, so you'd have to stack stuff up.

    I bought the Forester. :shades:

    Nowadays I have a van, but we have the opposite issue - it's too BIG! You have to tie things down so they don't roll around! :D
  • Forester and Legacy, nice Subarus! I was enthusiastic about a Legacy when shopping around for the Mazda5 but the back seat is terrible for riding with babies on a car seat. The Mazda5 is great in that sense (the sliding door is funky but damn useful, no hunching nor space trouble when fastening baby seat harnesses/commuting with a baby).

    Yes, a big stroller, I agree. I have done what is in the picture only 2-3 times since I bought the car 2+ yrs ago (5 adults, 1 baby on car seat) but usually the 3rd row is not used and is folded. The seat is not really pressing hard against the stroller but is soooo tight in there (and the wheels are very close to the heads of the lucky ones riding in the 3rd row :P).

    When using the 2 row seat mode the stroller fits both ways, length and wide-wise (length-wise it does not leave an inch left around the liftgate :D) so it has worked well for our case.

    When we bought the Mazda5 my wife actually measured around, but not for baby stuff, she checked if it was IKEA box fit compliant, and it is. That was not a deal breaker of course, but the CR-V we test drove did not pass that "test" ;)

    As per the van, if we ever get "upgraded" to more than 2 kids, yes, definitely it is best. Mazda5 would be extremely tight IMO.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    IKEA box fit compliant

    :D

    Good one! They should use that in the brochure!

    We also have 2 kids, but add a nanny and a dog in our case.

    This weekend we're taking a trip with a family of 3, all coming along in our van for the ride. The nanny isn't coming, but it will be 7 people plus luggage, and one dog!
This discussion has been closed.