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Having the big-deal multi-link rear suspension distinguishes the two. The Control Blade suspension, along w/ the Focus, was borned in the late '90's. It took at least 1/2 a decade before the sister cars like the Mazda3/S40/V50 get to adopt, & followed by its competitors like the FWD Passat/Jetta/GTI/A3 which duplicated it only after the original Focus engineer designed for them!
Today, the Astra/Cruze don't got multi-links, neither does the Euro-market Civic hatch. &, w/in Fiesta's exterior dimension of around 170cm width & 170in length, only the hard-riding Mini Cooper does.
So here is my precious collection of B-class-size "vintage" cars:
1) 1999 E36 328is coupe
2) 2000 Civic hatch
3) 2007 Focus 2.3 ST sedan
Despite having Double-Wishbone suspension all around, Civic's torque-sensing pwr steering is numb & slow.
E36's steering is heavy & slow. Fortunately substituting w/ base-Z3's rack quickens it up.
Only the '07 Focus' quick/sharp-&-steady steering needs no significant improvement.
The only tuning I applied on the E36 & Focus are:
1) Torsen/Quaife differential to blast off the power during cornering.
2) Monroe/Gabriel shocks to calm down the nervous rebound ride motion.
For its size, it weighs less than just about anything else on the market. And, yes, you have to rev it - it's not a V8. But it is very very fast if driven properly. About half a second faster than the Miata, in fact. It's one of the true sleepers out there - nobody seems to thinks it's that fast until they try to actually race one.
If the beautifully light-weight rotary is replaced by an electric motor, then that's a different story.
That's why, after the test drive, I've decided to get an used fat-torque 328is w/ LSD so the power-oversteer drifting is frequently available on tap.
In a way, the RX-8 is the best car in the world. Even w/ its ('05 spec) super-soft std suspension & high-profile 16" tires, the light nose & the complicate suspension front-&-back help it to ride even plusher than the noisier Focus 2.3 ST sedan, while the cornering limit is still unreach-able during test drive. But why did I ended up getting the Focus ST instead? Same reason why I got the Bimmer -- I get to drift in the real world w/ Focus' lower cornering limit.
5.9 seconds 0-60 isn't slow. That's 0.1 second slower than the Cayman. And it handels almost exactly was well. They made a slew of minor improvements for the 2009 model and it's quite a bit better driving vehicle as a result. I'd liken it to the orginal Mini vs the new one - not much going on at first glance, but the tiny tweaks and changes all add up to a better overall ride.
I also looked at some of the current subcompacts at the show. The least expensive that I would even give a though to owning were a Versa 1.8S that with automatic and the power package for just over $16k, and a Yaris 5-door automatic with power package for about $16.7k. Even a fairly basic Rio with power package topped $16k. Based on pricing for the Fiesta that I've seen, Nissan, Toyota, and even Hyundai/Kia will be in big trouble in this segment of the market once the Fiesta is available--and probably the Mazda2 also.
The Focus 2.3 ST 4-dr, like the SVT hatch, was never available w/ auto.
I am only interested in stick. The soft suspension w/ 16"s, which I envy, only came w/ the early RX-8 auto base model. But I checked w/ the parts dept & found out that you can adopt this plush-riding set up on the stick model simply by changing the springs & sway bars (shock absorbers have the same part #s). I just wasn't sure if the 16"s will fit over stick's possibly larger brakes.
So are you saying that, as long as you rev, the RX-8 w/ LSD can power oversteer at very slow corners in 1st gear not unlike the Miata w/ LSD?
Which is why the automatic fails, I think. It just doesn't want to stay at 2/3 redline for more than a fraction of a second unless you're mashing the pedal down(and then you're often going way too fast for normal city traffic)
Yes, the smart person will modify it to the 16s, because even that is overkill for the weight and power of the car. I had an old Volvo years and years ago with almost the same HP and weight and it came with 14 inch tires. And that was more than adequate. 16s are already overkill, and 18s ride like a go-kart. In a bad way. My old 1987 4x4 Toyota is less harsh to drive than those low profile tires, and it's about as subtle and soft to drive as a brick.
Of course, the Focus also is miserable with the automatic. And the Mini and...(I think I see a pattern with small displacement engines and automatics... :P )
What kept me from getting a RX8 myself was that the rotary engines aren't as reliable as I'd like. It's just a fact of life that they are a lot like a Cayman or Boxster in that the engines are good for about 80-100K and then you just need a new one. It just wears out due to the way it's designed and the high compression/high revs. Thankfully it's less money to replace than the Porsche, but it's still a cost I can't afford.
My only gripe with the Fiesta is that they should offer a small supercharger on it instead of a turbo. I just don't like turbos on small displacement engines. IME, turbos actually work best on large engines with plenty of low-end power to compensate but not a lot at the top end and superchargers work best on small engines that need a boost overall. (yes, you can do well with both, but dual-turbos and fancy software is a lot of cost vs a simple supercharger)
note - as an example, check out the Mercedes Kompressor models sometime if you're in Europe for an example of how enjoyable a small supercharger is to drive in city traffic.
It's pretty good otherwise. I'd certainly own one over a Mini, just because the repair bills won't be sending my mechanic on free trips to Jamaica any time soon. :P
So it's not a broadband? That means power oversteer is not always available on tap.
You need delicate throttle calibration in order to fine tune your "fun" during cornering. I test drove the old '99 C230 Kompressor sedan & wasn't impressed by the non-linear throttle. The next generation US-spec C230 sedan (not hatch) was actually a 1.8 Kompressor, & I didn't even bother to test drive it. So I only believe in displacement, but 6-cyl is also too heavy for fun, especially for the nose-heavy FWD set up. It's too bad that the Focus did not follow its sister-car Mazda3's (or Porsche 944's) foot step w/ the 4-cyl 2.5. That make my 4-cyl 2.3 Focus ST a collector's item, especially w/ its more torque-bias calibration than Mazda's 2.3. As you can see, even a 5-cyl (from the Volvo C30/S40/V50) is enough to make the Focus II a loser!
Renault: 5/5
Agile, beautifully balanced 250 gives a hot hatch masterclass. Cup chassis has stiffer springs, dampers and anti-roll bars than the standard 250, as well as a limited-slip differential. Just be prepared for the firm ride.
Volkswagen: 4/5
The Scirocco R is a very capable machine that mixes excellent body control with strong grip and powerful brakes. But it isn’t much more involving to drive than the accomplished standard TSI version.
Ford: 3/5
While the chassis offers lots of grip and plenty of feedback, the weight of the Focus’s engine affects the handling. Traction breaks easily and torque steer can corrupt the steering. It’s not as agile as the Renault, either.
Audi: 3/5
The S3 is the softest car in this test, but still has lots to offer. It’s reassuring in poor weather due to the 4WD, and the light controls give decent feedback. Yet the ride is firm without the optional adaptive dampers.
So my cousin who got rid of his '04 RX-8 (w/ 18"s), due to repeated engine starting problem, eventually bought the '08 Cayman S, but everyone hates that Porsche's ride comfort (even worse than their already-uncomfortable '04 TSX). LOL
Bottom line, the RX-8's has the best ride/handling compromise in the world. But rotary's fuel consumption & 2-stroke-like oil consumption are stupid. So how about a "Focus powered" RX-8? The solution is the Miata, which uses a shortened version of the same platform & pretty much share its 4-cyl Duratec powerplant w/ the Ford Focus 2.0. Even before the Miata switched from 1.6 to 1.8 back then, that exact 1.8 twin-cam (Mazda engine) was already being used by the US-spec Escort GT hatch & Tracer LTS sedan.
Agreed. I think they were aiming at women as their target buyer. I can't see a lot of men going for it.
As for the oil consumption, it's a required function of the design as the oil lubricates the seals exactly like a 2-stroke engine. That said, they really need to make it have a huge oil resovoir as a result. That's where the engines eat themselves as they age - you let it get a quart low and you're in trouble(this means checking the oil every week which nobody does so...)
Oh - the Cayman is great if you get 16 inch all-seasons on it(from a boxster). I just don't get it, really, other than maybe the designers being idiots. Higher profile tires are superior for handling, comfort, and fuel efficiency. Now, it doesn't have to be 1920s era skinny, but putting 18 inch semi-slicks on a normal car is... they have their brains backwards on this one.
They're both sweet cars, & not too slow w/ manual. The Protege-based Escort has uncontrollable oversteer available, while the Focus, w/ the technologically advanced Control Blades, oversteers controllably.
They both got an excellent steering that's quick w/ real road feel & a comfortable resilient ride, all wrapped in a roomy but highly-maneuverable compact-exterior package. What more can you ask?
But everytime when I recommended one these 2 "best small wagons in the world" (especially the Focus wagon) to those who are in real need of a roomy small wagon, they always came up w/ excuses like they need more pwr, larger back seat, or AWD. Yeah, right. You know what? I don't believe'em! They've been living w/ 2WD cars w/ 4-cyl & were OK w/ them.
So my brother ended up getting the E46 325xi wagon, which gave the passengers a hard time sitting next to the center-mounted child-safety seat. Not to mention their 130lb Swiss-mt rescue-dog pet could barely squeeze into the cargo area & kept dripping saliva onto the cow-hide-wrapped 2nd-roll seat...
& I can only laugh when watching my slow-driving friend & relative, who just became Porsche owners for the first time lately, living miserably driving these brand-new cars. & I'm not talking about the $.
FYI, Ford's Duratec engine block is designed by Porsche, so my Focus 2.3 ST is like a Porsche w/ a smoother ride :P
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2011/ford/fiesta/101266475/VehicleComparison?basestyl- - eid=101266475&styleid=101200428&styleid=101216526&styleid=101200500&styleid=1012- - 13354&maxvehicles=5&refid=&op=15&tab=start
I Corps Con Tien Grid 6341 Second Marines on the DMZ Puffin 0302 and I avoid my Bluetooth and would be paranoid using On Star. Yes, I still watch my back.
Just drive stick if you want a small fast hatchback.
There is no reason to get a traditional manual trans now other than simple driving enjoyment (which is a great reason). Manuals are no longer cheaper, faster or get better mileage.
This isn't BMW. It's Ford. And the smart money is to avoid any automatic transmission they make if there's a manual available.
Its tuned for economy, the shifter just says PRNDL and there is no manual mode. Its a dry clutch sequential automated gearbox. Its efficient, not fun.
A great example was the SMT in the MR2. It had a non-defeatable half second delay between shifts in order to maximize clutch life. It sucked as a result.
Given that it's Ford, I'll believe it when I drive it.
I didn't meant to make it sound like a direct response to your statement. Its just doesn't seem like the VW DSG everyone is expecting.
Frankly "German Automatic" makes me cringe even more than if it was "Ford Automatic". Together, it'll take a small miracle to not be as bad as Chrysler's.
Have you ordered a Fiesta yet?
http://green.autoblog.com/gallery/ford-powershift-gearbox#4
Fiesta's VW/Audi-style DSG's clutch is always engaged except during the first few mph from 0 mph, then each gear change is done DIRECTLY by sliding into the next pre-aligned gear in a perfectly seamless manner. Even during downshifts, the engine throttle is adjusted accordingly to rev match. With smooth operation like that, the gears (& clutch?) will wear out even slower than in an conventional manual transmission.
Unlike VW/Audi/Porsche, Ford skips the manual-mode on this transmission b/c Ford customers are too cheap to afford it.
But I still prefer the conventional manual transmission partly b/c I can shift to neutral whenever I want.
I was going to put in a link that descibed how this transmission works for anyone confused about how it differs from a traditional auto-tran but your little summary pretty much gets to the point. The simplicity of the Powersift should prove it to be very reliable.
Here's a link anyway;
http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13746_7-10147042-48.html
Doesn't look like any automatic trans I've ever seen.......
6 Speed Auto
Lime Squeeze Paint
Light Stone Interior
Sport Appearance Package
For those of us in the northern regions of the US, it sounds like our Fiestas will come standard with a frost plug heater.
Lemme tell ya about Ford of Europe -- IT IS NOT AMERICAN CAR. They've been developing "Japanese-car fighters" since 40 yrs ago:
http://www.mk3cortina.com/history.htm
"Launched at the 1970 Earl's Court Motor Show, the Mk lll variant of Ford's family motor started the decade off in fine style, with it's distinctive 'Coke bottle' curves. The growing popularity of Japanese imports sparked a wake-up call to British car manufacturers and Ford responded by offering greater comfort and glamour in its mainstream car range. Paradoxically, the new styling and 'under the skin' technical innovation marked the growing influence of Ford of Europe in independently developing models from its Stateside parent. It was also in mass production in what was then West Germany, under the 'Taunus' moniker, marking a radical departure from the gradual, centralised evolution of previous Fords."
I think it's a great looking compact sedan:
http://www.mk3cortina.com/cgi-bin/imageFolio.cgi?action=view&link=Standard_Corti- - - - - nas&image=greencortina.jpg&img=56&search=CORTINA&cat=all&tt=&bool=and
http://www.mk3cortina.com/cgi-bin/imageFolio.cgi?action=view&link=Standard_Corti- - - - - nas&image=reargreentina.jpg&img=64&search=CORTINA&cat=all&tt=&bool=and
Does any one of you remember it being imported to Canada? B/c I've never seen one in N. America.
Back then, this Euro "Japanese-car fighter" was only powered by a Pinto engine. But these days...
So how reliable was your made-in-Germany Fiesta? Was it problematic like the other Geman imports such as the Ford Sierra w/ Pinto engine (Merkur XR4Ti) & Scorpio? The Focus, especially the one built in N. America, was a lemon. But after Mazda took over the 4-cyl Duratec-engine developement & replaced the Zetec engines more than a few years ago, the European-built Focus has become more reliable than any Japanese car in Germany. While the one built in N. America also excelled the reliability average of any German car company in the U.S.!
Today, Ford of Europe doesn't just churn out great-looking & fun-to-drive cars, but reliable as well! B/c they're really German cars w/ Japanese powerplant :P
I'm curious to know if Mazda was involved in designing the 1.6 liter that will go into our NA cars. And if not, what exactly is the history of it's development?
Quote:
"Sigma
Main article: Ford Sigma engine
The advanced Zetec-SE was developed in collaboration of Yamaha and Mazda, under the Sigma codename. It ranges in size from 1.25 L (1249 cc) to 1.7 L (1679 cc). It is very different from the Zeta engine - the intake and exhaust are even on opposite sides.
This engine is sold under the Sigma name in some regions, while Mazda uses the MZI name. It is also sold as a crate engine by Ford Power Products as the ZSG. Rather confusingly, this engine has been renamed "Duratec" for use in the Mk II Ford Focus for Europe, being available in 1.4 L and 1.6 L versions. This incarnation also spawned a 1.6 L derivative with variable valve timing, known by Ford as Ti-VCT (Twin Independent Variable Camshaft Timing).
This engine is now under the name 'Duratec' in the new Focus, Fiesta etc."
So if the info in Wikipedia is accurate, then it can also be said that the Sigma engines are based off of Mazda architecture.
While I can understand the appeal of being able to swap in larger engines, I can state from personal experience that the 1.5L Sigma in my Fiesta is a very smooth and revvy engine. It feels very "Japanese", which I suppose given its heritage isn't all that surprising.
I meant, really, where else can you find a German-engineered car w/ Japanese-engineered engine?
The engine lineup for the Mk II is a mixture of old and new, with the Zetec petrol (gasoline) engines of the original having been superseded by the newer Duratec range. The 1.4 L and 1.6 L (100 bhp and Ti-VCT 115 bhp) units, although named "Duratec", are in fact revised versions of the old Zetec-SE units, while the 2.0 L versions are the Mazda-derived Duratec-HE units.
This would make me think there was no involvement with Mazda or Yamaha with the current Fiesta 1.6 liter.
I don't know about that. My impression has been there were a lot of problems with the first year model in 2000, but that it was a pretty reliable car in subsequent model years in the USA.
http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=32291
But the new dual-clutch automated manual-like transmission is totally opposite! Acceleration wise, the shifting time involved w/ conventional manual transmission is totally eliminated, not to mention the added sophistication of shifting smoothness.