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They DID. Giving major concessions (maybe not so much to Ford, but that's for a different forum). So, now we'll see the non-union companies try to cut their workers compensation to maintain their cost advantage.
There's the race to the bottom you guys crave so much. You won't be happy until the MexiChIndians make more than we do.
Well, in case you haven't heard Fairfax GM ISN'T KC Ford. The Fairfax workers are THRILLED, as they have plenty of work churning out Mailbus and LaCrosses. 5 months and 6000 miles and my LaCrosse has been a pure joy (except when my wife clipped a huge rock making a turn and tore open the sidewall on the tire. Then proceeded to drive it 25 miles until it lost all it's air an separated from the sidewall. $302 for a new tire-thank GOD the rim was fine :mad: )
Just pointing out that your post slamming Hondas and Toyotas with lots of innuendo about problems is an invitation to bring up comparisons with GM, given that this is a "GM fans" board. Many of us who have been critical of GM in other forums have been nice to GM in this forum in respect to the topic at hand. Thanks.
Are those the same workers that struck GM a few months before bankruptcy?
And no, I haven't seen anybody in any forum post that they will be happy when wages of the UAW equal those of third world countries. Help me find the post, ok?
".....UAW deserves to lose all of its jobs. and the sooner, the faster, and the more severe they lose their jobs, the better it is for the public at large, for the taxpayers, and for the UAW members specifically."
Well, I would say rooting for someone to lose their job would be worse than working for 3 world wages.
The new 9-5 is some where I assume in size near the Buick Lucerne. Maybe they should just scrap the current Lucerne and replace it with this new 9-5??? How about the Buick Wild Cat???.....You old timers probably can recall some cool Buick, names from the past, eh??? I personally think the new 9-5 does have that wow factor!!!! :shades:
-Rocky
-Rocky
-Rocky
-Rocky
Here's a pic of some fresh new Saab products. Just ta sort of get the Saab juices flowing a little bit more.
I love the 9-5 Aero.
"Ummm...turkey...one of my favorites."
Dennis Hopper in the movie 'Red Rock West', just after shooting a cop in Red Rock in cold blood. Dennis then picks up the poor cop's sandwich and makes the above comment. The movie was filmed in the Willcox, AZ area in 1992. Also stars Nicolas Cage. The hospital I work at was filmed in the movie, though it's been remodeled since then. The outside shots are unmistakenly our little county hospital. What a trip.
But not to digress totally here. I love that 9-5, but the pricetag might make me jump outta me skin, though.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
-Rocky
I don't think it is the same thing. Keeping this on topic for GM and its success, many people feel that GM as a company is burdened in its ability to be successful because the UAW is high cost, inflexible, and hurts GM. As a GM fan wanting GM to succeed, this is a bad thing. Now if those UAW jobs are lost and as a result GM is more competitive because it has a workforce more like the transplant factories in this country, then that is good for GM. That is NOT the same as working for China or India wages, as nobody putting cars together in the US is working for those types of wages.
So I can easily see why somebody would want the UAW *GONE* if they are a GM fan. Not the same as third world wages, however. I think the term "haters" of GM used in these boards is a misnomer. I know that I spend my valuable time in these boards because I have been disappointed in GM for many years and I believe they should be able to do better. I want them to be successful. You can care about GM and want the UAW to be gone, if that is what will help GM be successful.
My dad bought in late Jan 09 and was able to get it for $26k. Once heck of a deal. Plus, they gave him $1,500 for his '00 Taurus which had nearly 200k on it. Ford and Toyota would only give him $500 towards a Camry or Fusion.
I priced out a 2010 Accord EX-L V-6, and a Malibu LTZ with every option clicked except for extra-cost paint (3.6 V-6, sunroof, spare tire :confuse: (when did these become optional?!), engine block heater, and rear power outlets and sunshade. There were no options for the Accord, so take it or leave it. Edmund's had a TMV of ~$26.8K for the Malibu, and ~$27.2K for the Accord.
IMO, at that point, both cars seem like a pretty good value, but with only a $400 spread, I don't see much advantage to the Malibu, unless it has some standard features that the Accord is lacking?
IMO, at that point, both cars seem like a pretty good value, but with only a $400 spread, I don't see much advantage to the Malibu, unless it has some standard features that the Accord is lacking?
IIRC, the only option available on an Accord EX-L is navigation which I don't think is an option on the Malibu. IMO, the choice between the two comes down to personal preferences.
Yeah, the Accord looks like it was assaulted in a back alley with an ugly stick and left for dead.
I've owned 3 Accords over the years ('85 LX hatch, '92 LX sedan and '93 DX sedan) and am appalled by how awful looking these cars have become with each new iteration.
If there is one area in which the Malibu has an advantage over the Accord, it's in looks.
You'll probably find incentives on the Malibu along with a dealer willingness to negotiate making that substantially more than $400. Also, in this area the Chev store will not insist on adding on as many extra fees as the Honda store.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I didn't think the 9-5 was in that size range. I thought it was between the laCrosse and the Regal.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Maybe Russian people will fall in love with weird Saab
Nah, they prefer imitation Packards.
A Saab is WAY too low key for affluent Russians. They are the most ostentatious consumers imaginable.
I was thinking the same thing...not to mention things like 'loyalty cash' as well as a rebate like you're stating, plus if you're like me and have a GM card, I usually get a couple grand off with that too...and that's non-negotiable. GM has been giving bonus cash on top of your GM card earnings lately, too.
Bill
I don't believe that the 2 are mutually exclusive, though. I DO believe that it is time for the UAW to be more conscientious about their relationship w/ The Big 3. The more they succeed, then the more the workers succeed.
My worry is where does the concessions end. If, hypothetically the concessions made by the UAW cause the transplant companies to decrease their compensation to their workers just so the transplants can maintain some sort of "advantage" in costs, then would it not correct to assume that the UAW is going to be asked to concede more too? Kind of like a big department store coming into an area and selling goods at a loss just to get people in the door and away from their usual haunts, causing the weaker or smaller stores in the area to go belly up. Then the big box store raises their prices to make money, because they are the only game in town.
My question is where does it end?
Right now, all of GM's newest products are selling quite well, and for very little in incentives. So, one would assume that GM is making some good cash on those products, and not doing so well on the older products. If (IF!!!) this trend continues, then ultimately GM should start making a profit.
As much as the wages and bennies hurt GM, I would assume having all these different platforms and engines for different regions of the world hurt the bottom line too.
We see this 2011 Regal as being Buick's version of the Opel Insignia. GM may get some criticizm for this as being "badge engineering", and thats OK, for now. But what happens in say, 2016? Does the next gen. Regal and Insignia stay badge engineered, or do the design teams work to make a true "Buick" and a true "Opel", that just happen to share a platform and some engine combos. If the latter is the case, then kudos to GM, as they will save money that will pale in comparison to wages. And if the product is that good, they will make money hand over fist.
".....You can care about GM and want the UAW to be gone, if that is what will help GM be successful. "
I don't believe that the 2 are mutually exclusive, though. I DO believe that it is time for the UAW to be more conscientious about their relationship w/ The Big 3. The more they succeed, then the more the workers succeed.
I think the key is that GM needs to be competitive. Not only in products, but also in costs. There are many excellent vehicles made in the US from profitable auto companies. There should be no reason why GM cannot be one of them. I think we agree about that.
The issue with the UAW when people say they hope they lose all their jobs is I believe frustration with the hard line stance the union has kept. Although there have been concessions they have come almost at the death of the parent company. Other than government workers, few US workers still have defined-benefit pension plans or retirement health care. If GM is going to keep funding those types of things then they are going to have trouble being successful. I believe the workers at Toy, Hon, Hyu, BMW, Acu, etc. building vehicles in the US are mostly decently paid, decently compensated, and happy to have their jobs. This is not the third world.
GM's latest vehicles are looking really good and you have to admire them for being bolder with the Volt, among others. But to help GM be successful, many changes had/have to be made: union inflexibility and costs, better vehicles, better reliability, new management, new board of directors, fewer divsions, fewer products. Most of those changes have been made and it is beginning to show. It is just that the union is still a tremendous risk to GM.
The analogy of Apple and Microsoft is apt. In Microsoft I see a behemoth with good but sort of boring products, slow moving culture, not much innovation -- a lot like GM had been (although Microsft is very profitable). In Apple we see the BMW of electronics companies - elegant products, market-changing innovations, high perceived value. This is more like BMW. I don't see any reason why we shouldn't be able to have a US make that is more like Apple in this example. Hopefully Buick or Cadillac can get there.
It's the WOW factor:
"At night, a sliver of blue cuts across the dash, part of Buick's interior lighting scheme. LEDs have become night-time chrome accents for posh interiors, and the LaCrosse is light years ahead of its major competitors -- the Toyota Avalon and Lexus ES350. Those interiors are crisp, but the LaCrosse is elegant."
Detroit News
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
2 things; first, I think that the product (or lack of product) from say 1990 'til 2006 (save trucks and SUV's) had more to do with the fact that there were huge amounts of cash on the hood. Had the Bonnevilles, Cutlasses, Devilles and LeSabres of the '90's been as good as the trucks and SUV's, then maybe there would have been no reason for a bailout.
As far as the benefits, I'm uncomfortable with the "I don't have it so why should you" attitude. Personally, I don't think that a pension should be much more expensive than a 401k, except for the fact that the employee contributes to the 401k as well, and there are some pensions ( the RI state employees pension for one) where the employees pay in too. Medical is probably the back breaker, but that is another topic altogether.
What may be the weirdest part of the whole issue is how there is basically one national contract for all 3 automakers, as opposed to contracts that are tailored to each individual automaker.
The H-bodies of the 92+ era are some of the most reliable GM made. I have had 3; currently own two of them. My 89 Century (and 87 Century) were delightful cars. Indeed, if GM had not discontinued the H-body, I probably would have replaced my 98 with a newer one; but I didn't want the Lucerne, which is a different car.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
"SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) -- General Motors Co. expects to pay back emergency loans in full to the U.S. and Canadian governments by June 2010, Chief Executive Ed Whitacre said in a statement Friday. Whitacre added that the outlook is based upon "no downturn in the economy or business." The outlook accompanies GM's announcement it made a $1 billion payment to the U.S. Treasury and a $192 million payment to Export Development Canada."
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The one element in design that rubbed me the wrong way were the too small windows but that's a phase most everyone is going through these days.
After looking inside I agree with that guy. I want to see it at night.
You do have to wonder about a guy who uses perfect day and 11 degrees in the same sentence....
I guess with the union not agreeing to concessions at Ford, it helps GM be more successful but may hurt Ford. The previous consistency of the contracts has evolved to inconsistency which now favors C and GM (purely from a contract/workforce perspective).
I loved my '99 Ultra. I would've liked to replace it w/ the same sized car, but one of the reasons I went with the LaCrosse was it was brand new, whereas the Lucerne rides on the same platform, which has been in use since the '95 Aurora. Thats now 16 model years.
I did see more Saabs in Germany than I imagined...maybe they envision some kind of niche for the cars. I wonder if the Chinese would go for them too.
If the UAW really cared about more than personal greed, they'd settle for lower demands, but a larger potential bonus arrangement when the company does well.
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GM will make its some of its own electric motors. The batteries aren't the only critical part of the hybrid system.
Read here
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Sometimes it takes "out of the box" thinking. Lifers like Wagoner just are too inbred to think independently. With Mulally and now Whiteacre, this is the totally radical change that the US makers have needed. Mulally is doing great and Whiteacre looks hopeful. But both companies still face enormous risks.
-Rocky
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
-Rocky
-Rocky
from gminsidenews.com
Buick small car based on Delta II platform. Possibly named Verano? Some suggest Excelle which is the slated name for Chinese version. Cruze also is based on Delta II.
Good things are happening at GM.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Unless something has changed really recently, the 9-5 is a bit on the small side...about the same size as a Saturn L-series, or the past two generations of Malibu...
rock - from what I've read in the early reports GM will be keeping a piece of Saab in this whole deal. Apparently they want access to what Saab develops in teh futire. You should be a happy boy all around!
Regards,
OW
Since this is a fan site, I'll refrain from any snide remarks that hit home because they are true.
GM Lowers Price on CTS Wagon
Regards,
OW