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Ford Five Hundred/Mercury Montego
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Comments
Only had the 04 Mountaineer a day now, it's going fine. Yes, still have the Navigator which is my main ride, and it's just excellent. Nothing yet out there that would drive me out of it.
It's 3 bars, across the front grill that will be used on the passenger vehicles to come. Right now they are getting the 500 Grills look, with the mesh grill (Taurus, Focus, 500, CV)...then it'll grow to the 3-bar look.
http://www.ford.com/en/innovation/design/designers/jMays.htm
Pretty much it comes down to this. Either they release the vehicles NOW with the Duratec30, or release it in another year or so, with the Duratec35. If you delay it a year just because of powertrain, the vehicle itself (and it's technology) will fall behind once introduced.
HENCE, introduce it now and let the vehicle sell itself on it's other positive merits... Then integrate an optional powertrain (Duratec35) a year or so after introduction, to gain sales and create fresh attention again.
~alpha
Pertaining to the 500, maybe the AWD version might be the closest version someone would cross shop it with...but comparing the FWD 2WD versions of each vehicle will make the deciding factor for many.
Granted, the 300C could have even 400HP and be priced the same, but in the end it will not guarantee sales success. Let's take a look at the Nissan Titan, great acceleration performance, but it's sales are below what expected. Same with the Quest, same with the Armada. Acceleration is just one factor in the equation.
Otherwise, it WOULD have been a Five Hundred.
I doubt I am alone in this....
I think the Quest is not selling well because of its overwrought design and tepid reviews. The Titan and Armada certainly arent selling poorly, and arent THAT FAR off targets.
I was at the NY Auto Show again today (didnt have much time on Friday). I saw the Ford display. For all the money Ford has spent on interiors, I feel that it only really shows in the Lincolns, whose interiors are classy and well done without an obvious look of trying too hard. I HATE that the 2005 Focus has a different, much uglier, less stylish center stack. The Freestar/Monterrey also failed to impress, BUT if I was in the market, I suppose I could overlook that given the NOW $4000 rebate. Thats insane for a vehicle less than a year old, though precisely what was expected. The Five Hundred on the display table had a pleasant exterior, but generally boring interior. Looks roomy, and the seats APPEAR comfortable.
Seriously, what is the deal with the Mariner. Its a frekin Escape for God's sake, and its STILL not on sale, despite being at LAST YEARS NYIAS. The spiral notebook like brochure says the FALL. WHY?
~alpha
Example 1: Ford Focus(2.3L) 145 Hp
Mazda3 (2.3L) 160 Hp
Example 2: Ford Taurus/500 (3.0L) 200 Hp
Mazda6 (3.0L) 220
Lincoln LS (3.0L) 232Hp
Jaguar X type (3.0L) 232Hp
For those who believe 200HP isn't enough, then will obviously try other vehicles. It's only US, because of our resources, that are aware that a 3.5L will be implemented into the vehicle in the future. The majority of other consumer's, will not so they'll miss out, and that's obvious the risk that had to be taken in Ford's behave.
It doesn't how much we analyze the situation, and complain (trust me, I've done my share part over the engine) but to there was NO way the 3.5L could have been ready for this vehicles debut. And this is the best situation Ford could have done, given the circumstances. And it's really not as bad, as the 200HP might state.
The Mariner was delayed to coincide with the Escape Hybrid debut. And you also don't wish to do it at the same time the Montego launches, so other factors were taken into consideration.
Andy,
Numerous engines are tailored, depending upon the brand. Toyota has it's 3.0L, where it would make 194HP to 210HP in Toyota, but 220HP in Lexus. (Now 3.3L).
Nissan's 3.5L does 230Hp on the Quest (a bit more on the Altima/Maxima) but makes 260HP-287HP ON Inifniti products, etc.
Same thing with Ford, Jag, Lincoln, Mazda. IN some cases (like Jag and Mazda) they have the original engine architecture, but they fit their own heads and tune it for a bit more power.
Taurus 0-60 in 8.3 seconds. 45-65 in 4.9 seconds. 1/4 mile in 16.4 seconds. Curb weight 3325 lbs. CR mileage test: 15 city, 31 highway, 22 overall
Mazda 6: 0-60 in 8.1 seconds. 45-65 in 5.3 seconds. 1/4 mile in 16.5 seconds. Curb weight 3355 lbs. Cr mileage test: 14 city, 30 highway, 20 overall.
Seems all that tweaking Mazda did with variable valve timing and a 5 speed automatic did nearly nothing but allow Mazda to publish a 10% higher horsepower rating, but with worse mileage, and in only one acceleration test did it beat the Taurus.
My point, wait until you drive the 500 with the 3.0 Duratec before you pass judgement on its inadequate engine, and if you think it is inadequate, then buy something else or wait for the 3.5. I'd certainly rather Ford release 500 this fall than wait a year for another engine option.
In the meantime if you want a real bargain, pick up a Taurus or Sable. Just saw a local add for a new Mercury Sable LS Premium well equipped including no charge leather, illuminated keyless entry, ABS, autodimming rear view mirror and automatic temperature control, along with all the standard features in the top model Sable including the 3.0 Duratec. MSRP $24325. Net price with all rebates and discounts: $17675. Good performance at a bargain price.
~alpha
That could apply to just about any car you buy, but with Taurus/Sable's (undeserved in my opinion) "rental car" image, high depreciation makes it even a better deal purchasing a year or two old used car.
Somebody better buy new though, or the used car supply would dry up.
I sell Fords and I can tell you that as long as the car FEELS like it can safely accelerate into traffic, no one will care what the published horsepower ratings are.
People only ask "is this a 4 cylinder or a 6 cylinder" these people don't even understand that a thoroughly modern 4 cylinder like the Ford/Mazda 2.3L offers the same type of performance as an old tech 6 cylinder like the 3.0L Vulcan in the Taurus.
People just think 6 cylinders are better then 4 cylinders.
GM is well aware of this perception and sticks to old tech low output OHV engines instead of moving to DOHC engines and saves about $800.00 per unit..
When a customer tests drive a car, they care about how it feels. If the 500 has a tight feel. Feels well put together and creates an overall impression of value it will sell.
Ford's target demographic for this vehicle is the 40's something empty nester who is moving out of a mini-van or suv. (SUV customers will go for the AWD version). These people didn't buy the SUV or Mini-Van for str8 line performance and they aren't going to decide whether or not to buy a 500 over str8 line performance.
Initial quality will be way more important to the success of this vehicle than horsepower figures. Hence the 30 Durotec is a good choice, its' been around almost 10 years, its proven reliable and Mazda has put plenty of refinement into it over the years.
Obviously, if you try to evaluate the 500 as a Porsche or a Lexus, its going to loose. The questions actual customers will be asking are "will this carry my family comfortably," "will this be reliable," "will my friends and co-workers laugh at me," "is this vehicle safe."
I for one know I'll be say to my customers "this is built on the same platform as the Volvo S60" "this AWD system is the same one used by Volvo" "the safety systems in this vehicle were designed by Volvo" "this care uses VOLVO technology."
Remember its more fun to drive a slow car fast then a fast car slow
Mark
"Gear heads" have more influence over other car buyers than their numbers would suggest. If several sources aimed at gear heads note (relatively) slow acceleration figures, that is a hurdle the sales force will have to overcome for prospective customers. Most family sedan buyers don't expect a rocket sled with four doors, but they will be reluctant to buy a vehicle that is branded "slow."
And which is why they have placed their new 3.6L DOHC V6 (high feature) into their Rendevouz, Larcross, etc. Or even the Caddy XLR, which they could have placed the 5.7L OHV V8, but they chose the sophisticated Northstar instead.
But obviously they don't see it as a priority, and are concentrating on interiors instead which is desperately needed as well.
I have to respectfully disagree with this. IMHO, most buyers could care less regarding OHC vs OHV. Gearheads OTOH...
One of them stated, "One review stated it had a OHV engine, is that bad??" SO I went on to mention the difference (and the ticking problem GM has with their OHV V8's)...So consumer's are slowly learning.
But yes, they'll be many that won't notice the difference or know what to look for. And for them, there's GM, Kia and VW.....
The vast majority of car buyers shop based on style, price, and reputation as opposed to the nuances of engine design.
I was asked by someone why the Freestar sounded rough at higher RPM, over the Sienna when they were shopping for a minivan.
And that's obviously a factor consumer's will take into account even if they aren't aware of the engine designs.
ford 2005 "ordering guides"
and it's the first hit. Just FYI.
-Andrew L
So the power output will be as follows:
203 hp @ 5750 rpm
207 lb.-ft. @ 4500 rpm
Same goes for Freestyle.
a little better than expected!
I know what I DON'T want - I don't want the damn head gaskets to breech because they hurried it up.
I would just wait an extra year until the new engine is available if it were me. I made that mistake once - I bought a 97 Mountaineer in 96 when they first came out, because I wanted an SUV. The next year, the Navigator was out - and I should have waited, because I really needed, and wanted the bigger truck. But I was stuck with the Mountaineer for a 2 year lease.
YES, Ford could have delayed the 500/Montego/Freestyle till '-06, but when ONCE the vehicle would debut, it would have been critisized for having (2003 techonology). Plus, Ford would be losing time (which is money) on THAT specific program, if it's not introduced THIS YEAR.
the magazines are just stating the obvious. i guess it's just not obvious to GM diehards who can't afford to drive cadillacs. why in the heck would GM positioned the upcoming 3.6l for their higher echelon cars?
true, many consumers probably don't have the slightest clue that their engine is an OHC design but they notice the smoothness and refinement of that engine. this is what would sells the car.
but i'm far from impressed by GM's pushrod V6 engines.
Wow - I am very impressed.
That's probably 8 or 9 years on my typical annual driving.
Hope it continues faithful service until you can purchase what you want . . .
- Ray
Not at all proud to have purchased 4 cars in the past 8 years
http://media.ford.com/products/presskit_display.cfm?vehicle_id=10- 51&press_subsection_id=421&make_id=92
http://media.ford.com/products/presskit_display.cfm?vehicle_id=10- 51&press_subsection_id=422&make_id=92
http://media.ford.com/products/presskit_display.cfm?vehicle_id=10- 51&press_subsection_id=419&make_id=92
http://media.ford.com/products/presskit_display.cfm?vehicle_id=10- 51&press_section_id=398&make_id=92
Have fun
Mark
Not to mention the prices on those beasts.
As for your insults of my Navigator - what did I ever do to you?